New kill rate stats for killers (including top 5% MMR)
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All these numbers and algorithms when saying nerf pig would work just as well
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It's okay, stay sleepin' on Dredge... 🕛️🌑 🦃🌫️
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And to be fair high mmr survivors love going against bubba's as they tend to have no issues with him
So the lower stats for him in high mmr make sense
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Yup, I said the same thing.
Not counting DC's is the wrong move. People DC for a reason. Either they're getting stomped, or rage quitting for losing, or whatever. That should count.
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Yeah it would be interesting to have separate stats that include dc's
Possibly a DC chart to see which killer causes the most dc's
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I knew Wesker was being played a lot recently, but...
Holy shoot, 25% pick rate at top MMR. That's a huge lot.
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Same. I guess his superior anatomy really does make him a cut above the rest
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Wesker pick rates reaching complete global saturation.
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1character
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I wasn't ready for this kind of new world order. Wesker Law is now in full effect.
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Toxic lmao
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Yes, absolutely. “If Nurse ever loses, the Nurse player sucks.”
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Yes very much so I tried to say this when she was released and was told hit and run is dead and her teleport was weak, this is why I put her at B tier and these people thought I was crazy, but her kit offers a few different ways to get the upper hand if used correctly, I think the people who brainlessly chase survivors for five gens without realizing it are the ones saying she's weak
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Remember, stats mean nothing. Unless they confirm what I think.
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That's not what I said. And even if I said that, that wouldn't be toxic. Toxic is the most overused and wrong used word in this community, calm it down bruv
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Her performance isn't because of her kit, its because of the fact that only people who are exceptionally good at M1 killers even try to play her. These types of stats are very easy to enforce confirmation bias, especially in the form they're both taken and provided.
Edit: They also developed the condemn playstyle around specific addons which has helped her stay afloat with at least 1-2 kills per match. She's in a situation like spirit where people consider her at two completely different strengths depending on that alone.
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sorry but you're still crazy.
she's still pretty crappy and she won't see much play outside of her dedicated players as long as she stays the way she is. especially with the release of killers like wesker who made almost everyone switch to him already.
plus dredge already does everything she does better and if basekit ub is implemented it'll further kill her due to nerfing her most common strat.
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This is data for all of September. He was realeased 30th of August.
His pick rate is definitely a lot lower now.
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I can't believe that my intuition about Sadako was indeed correct. For casual players, Sadako is top 3 killer. that is hilarious. I honestly cannot stop laughing at that first chart when I first saw this chart. Sadako according to these stats in top 5% MMR has as high kill-rate as nurse and blight. Almost sounds like comedy. I do not think anyone would say that playing Sadako == to playing nurse and blight.
the one killer that i was expecting to be highest was twins because they said they weakened twins because over-performing but I do not see it in the chart. I was expecting 80% kill-rate like dev said about twins given very low pick-rate %. Twins over-performing. ????????? Does weakening toy sword by 0.05(5%) decrease kill-rate that much??
I think wesker kill-rate is a bit misleading right now because with new killers, survivor need to learn to play against them. generally killer reach the killer's max potential a lot faster then survivor learn to play against the killer.
Another interesting pattern in first chart is that all killer that have secondary objective have way higher kill-rate then killer that do not. So the lower survivor's skill-level(MMR), the more a secondary objective affects the survivor's escape-rate.
->Wesker -> Has infection sprays
->Sadako -> Has televisions(Assuming condemn strategy)
-> Pinhead -> the box
->Plague -> Fountains
->Pig -> Jigsaw boxes
->Freddy -> Clocks
-> Dredge -> Locking lockers
I think this is because survivor that are less efficient at generators tend to struggle more with secondary objectives. For example, if you have trouble escaping normal killers to complete 5 gens, a secondary objective would reduce your odds to have even less chance finishing 5 generators. A lot of these killer power have some teamwork/team oriented associated element to their ability.
Trapper kill-rate is funny. His kill-rate is same in both charts. I think this is because trapper mastery is his skill-cieling. What the chart suggests is that skill-floor = skill-ceiling for trapper. While trapper may be better placing more clever traps, survivors are better at avoiding his traps. Perhaps this is perception why player think he is bad a killer. It is little bit like you never get better at playing trapper.
Nemesis has more backwards stats ever. He has higher kill-rate at all MMR but lower kill-rate at top 5% MMR. This almost feels expected. The extra health-state against nemesis's ability has little impact on his overall performance when the survivor does a poor job at looping his ability. The extra health-state for strong survivor is exponentially more valuable as they are able to extend chases and use the extra hits to their advantage. Longer chases leads to faster gens and faster matches means the zombies do a lot less. Still. the difference is only 1% but considering that all other killers generally have higher kill-rate. the difference looks a lot bigger.
Leatherface also has backwards stats. Killer with base-kit instant down tend to be difficult for less inexperienced survivors to loop because the survivor is not comfortable playing injured. This is also why Blight has lower kill-rate then Oni(Oni has base-kit instant down) but the two killer collide and have similar kill-rates in the end. Leatherface chainsaw becomes harder to use when the survivor is better at using windows and camping is a lot less effective when the survivor team is more efficient at the generator objective. The number is only 2%.
Blight has average kill-rate at all MMR and his kill-rate only goes up suggesting that he is not hard to pick-up but you gain a lot of reward for mastering him. Nurse has highest skill-floor meaning that she is hardest to pick up, but her kill-rate has highest leap increase when approaching mastery with her. Billy has high skill-floor but the rewards for mastering him are not really there which suggests underpowered but anyways. Same thing for trickster. All killer with low kill-rate that get significant boost from higher MMR suggest high mechanical skill-floor for the killer player to pick up but large boost in reward when the killer learns the killer.
The killer with backwards kill-rates means that killer power is less effective the more experienced the survivor team is. I still cannot believe this sadako 63% kill-rate and 61% kill-rate at top 5% MMR. Strong survivors losing to M1 Sadako. In the end, I do not think kill-rate express how the killer feels to play. Pinhead for example has high kill-rate but using his chains at loops does not feel very good. Sadako has high kill-rate but her overall stealth, limited mobility and condemn feels underwhelming to use for most players. Sometimes, the stats line up with a killer being underwhelming to play (Trapper) but other times they do not line up. I think it is more important that the killer power feels good to play over what stats say about the supposed effectiveness of the killer.
the killer can have 50 games of 2 kills and 25 games of where he 4k's. Out of 50 games that he got 2k. 100 out of 200 survivors escaped and the killer feels like he did not win the match. the 25 games where he 4ked were all commanding wins. The killer feels like he won 33% of his matches but his overall kill-rate is 66% since he killed 200/300 survivor. that is why kill-rate is a bit misleading compare to win-rate. it is what dev use to balance so I will not question it. Sadako has high kill-rate but may not have that high of win-rate. She is probably very good at getting draw-type games (2 kill, 2 escapes) though I am not sure.
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I mean, that obviously is true on both counts and always was but using winrates as an argument for explaining it is just stupid. WRs are not tier lists, especially in a game like DBD.
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Myers has an addon that allows him to instant kill survivors without needing to hook or down them.
As long as tombstone piece exist it's going to be hard for him to be the absolute worse killer.
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Well to each their own I guess I still think she's good, I have fun when I play her anyway
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There's a gimmick build/strategy involving basically forcing an early condemned and/or blocking TVs. It'll get fixed.
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Well I do fine with her and I wouldn't call myself exceptionally good though I've been here since the beginning, her kit does have some to do with it as well but that's just my personal opinion, she's better than most people will give her credit for
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You're absolutely allowed to have that opinion, but that is still confirmation bias. You are taking your opinion and using a separate statistic to try to prove it, when the two have plenty of room to not be directly related. People often cite the fallacy as "correlation does not equal causation," meaning that the result itself was not necessarily caused by the hypothesis, even though the result would imply it. In other words, as long as you keep it as opinion, that is perfectly fine, but you have to be willing to likewise accept when other opinions will conflict with it.
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Of course that's what a forum is for in the first place lol, people are allowed to have their opinions and I'm allowed to have mine I'm more than willing to debate anything with a civil conversation but some people get outta hand and upset you aren't a hive mind
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One would think Nurse would be on top in high MMR, but worse than Dredge..ok.
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Yeah I agree I always thought that, but most of the time I saw people saying the opposite, that Myers was extremely bad and GF was just so much better.
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No, it's more likely that the people that do play her already know what they're doing. Or cheese with the Ring Drawing addon condemned strat.
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I never considered that in statistics. that could be true. I personally love playing sadako because its super cool to have a killer that earns a mori as she plays the game. She plays so different from other killers that it is really cool. Downing people with m1 killer is not so appealing but the whole play-style is fun. it feels like your playing totally different game from normal dbd.
Well some people put sadako as like worst killer in the game and having base-kit mori and huge map mobility does not feel like worst killer in the game. Its just that at base-kit, the mori mechanic feels not very strong with no add-on's as in. it does not work properly. 100 second cooldown tv's and 7 stacks of condemn. you need to 7 tv teleports that take 700 seconds. With TV's being only form of condemn build up in base-kit. its not practical to mori survivors at base-kit with 0 add-ons.
i think sadako is similar to Myers. Myers does not have tombstone base-kit, but if he did, surely he would have way higher kill-rate because people perceive tombstone piece as unfair add-on. Sadako has tombstone piece base-kit but her tombstone piece is too time consuming to activate in a normal game with no add-ons, so her add-on are similar to J.Myer's memorial. They make condemn build-up faster. Given how different gameplay is, perhaps survivors are just not used to a killer that plays off condemn build-up over hook-states. Myer's play a lot different with tombstone compare to normal so he is unique in his own way when he uses those add-on's.
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I agree with that, I think always going for the condemned Mori is a bad tactic but also survivors can counter it easily, her map mobility and somewhat of stealth even though it's not the best is good still and there's always a chance you play your cards right and everything falls into place for a Mori but it's unreliable, I still stand firm that she's a B tier killer though
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Why does Wesker having those absurdly high win rates not warrant a nerf?
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The stats are from the month of September. Wesker was released on August 30th.
The stats are highly inflated from everyone playing Wesker the first week and people trying to figure out the best way to play against him thus artificially increasing both his pick rate and kill rate.
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I don't understand why they release this stuff. It's largely useless to the players, and results in nothing but fallacy riddled arguments and dozens of threads screaming the game is proven unfair. Never do these stats actually help anything. You probably shouldn't tell laymen the stats, unless you're going to give them a class in statistics.
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I believe low tier killers have high kill rates because few people play them so not everyone knows how to play against them, also new people that barely play the game on a weekly basis don't know how to counter them.
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def her forced condem strats. Her kit is weak otherwise and doesnt offer much. Weird moment of a character being so brokenly underpowered, but this one niche with massive power has cthe ability to skew kill rates.
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I for one am terrible with her and consequently havn't touched her since her release.
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You need to play as her then and do your part to lower her numbers so she'll get a buff! :D
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These kill rates say a lot about society.
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I don't know why he's rated so low to begin with. Myers is only the worst killer if you don't bring any addons. The thing tier lists never mention is that EVERYONE who brings Myers either has a tombstone piece or infinite tier 3. Like it's almost guaranteed.
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i think the ability to counter the tactic is based off survivor looping skill and TV interaction. community base their tier-listing off gameplay and how the killer feels to play. gameplay is more important then stats. according to BVHR stats, sadako and dredge are at the level of Nurse, Blight and Oni but no one that understand dbd gameplay believes Sadako & Dredge are on the power-level of Nurse & Blight. the kill-rate stats just have little meaning beyond small patterns that occur with them.
Sadako feels bad to play irregardless of her strengths/weakness, so she is still C-tier or D-tier, Gameplay matters more then stats, As I said in at the end of my post, kill-rate =/ win-rate because I can 2k 50 games in a row(draw according to dev) but 4k 25 games in a row. my perceived win-rate for playing said killer is low but my average kill-rate is high. I just wish dev balanced killer more on their gameplay over their kill-statistic. Killer care more about the killer being fun to play then the killer being strong. The killer being strong is part of being fun to play, but it is not everything.
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Most killers suffer if you don't bring add ons. But I think even without add ons Mikey is not worse than several other killers without add ons.
Btw I'm a Myers main and I rarely use infinite tier 3 and I never use tombstone piece. I know several Mikey mains who stream and you can check out their vods and see the same is true for them too. I think its a fabrication that most Mikeys bring them. If they did they would have been nerfed when they gave him an add on pass months ago. Instead they actually buffed regular tombstone.
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But Michael's problem isn't exactly that he suffersfor not bringing add-ons. It's the opposite: most of his add-ons are OK or have little impact, but then he has two add-ons that are outrageously strong, and the frequent use of this two add-ons alone can grant a lot of wins for him. It's hard to have a low kill rate with that.
I obviously don't have any data to know for sure if almost every Michael brings Tombstone Piece or Fragrant Tuft of Hair like the guy above said, all I can say is my personal experience, and lately almost every Michael I face ends up mori'ing someone with Tombstone or having Infinite T3. Since they are so strong, I think it makes sense to suppose many users of this add-ons reach high MMR.
About Judith's Tombstone nerf, I suppose the add-ons was used far more frequently in a combo with Fragrant Turft of Hair, which is even a little underpowered combination and possibly had a low kill rate. Afterall, there wasn't much reason to use Judith's Tombstone with any other add-on since Tombstone Piece was better in every way.
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She is strong, but there is a need to be really precise while playing her, top MMR survivors usually know better how to fake their movement, get out of her line of sight to hide information and Dead Hard at the right time. Even the best Artist player may end up making mistakes against such plays, and that can be quite punishable.
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How is nurse so low? I only ever get stomped by them and haven't faced a baby nurse for a couple of years now.
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Sadako isn’t surprising at all. People figured out how to cheese the Condemned mechanic. You can have a 3v1 at 3 gens. Kinda like Myers with Tombstone Piece, except she can teleport.
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Perhaps Demogorgon, Doctor, Trickster and Trapper should get further buffs then, looking into these numbers. And of course Twins when the survivors will be able to pick themselves up again and again.
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I like how people freaking out about Sadako and not asking how the hell dredge is so high?
I thought he would be a high tier killer but after trying to master him.... He is quite weak. I doubt high mmr players have any trouble countering him. Of course high mmr survivor in dbd have almost no meaning these days. In those 5% could be a baby claudettes who sit on gen whole game while someone making a youtube video gets chased for 5 gens.
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these kill rates are always the biggest waste of time. all it tells you is which killers are hard to play (nurse) and which are played the least, because there's no other logical way a basic killer like dredge should have a higher kill rate than blight.
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A huge thank you to BHVR for posting these numbers by the way. I like that they give us these information and even provide more when asked for it like with @McDoobz. I am a huge nerd for statistics and discussion these numbers with my friends makes my day right now.
Also these inspire many players to use the "weaker" Killers and get a feel for them, maybe reversing their opinion about certain kits and how to play them.
I always used to tell survivor to adapt to a certain Killer by changing the way they approach the power. Survivors (myself included) are guilty of bad plays and trying the same approach to different Killers more often than not. However the same is true for Killer players who try to play Onryo like they play Wraith (I am guilty of that too).
I think the most prominent thing these statistics show us are:
- Secondary objectives are very important for Killers to be successful. Onryo, Cenobite, Plague and also Mastermind all have those and they perform quit well.
- Map mobility is king. Even with a weaker chase power (Freddy, Onryo and Dredge) are able to hold their own. They are not screwed by big map and can apply pressure. This is a good thing: It rewards good Killers who know how to split their attention and pressure generators, thus leading to more chases and more fun overall.
- The usual suspects are still very good. Huntress, Blight and Nurse have solid pickrates alongside good winrates. This implies that they are just as we though: Very good Killers.
BHVR stated that they aim for a ~60% kill-rate (please correct me if I am wrong). It seems that they have reached their goal. Killers are in a good spot right now, so they can confidently go on and buff soloQ a bit now (by the way remove hook grabs on healthy survivors please...).
Going by the numbers I think that adjustments to some Killer would still be fine. However lifting the floor for survivors would probably be the better approach to tone down some of those numbers if desired. The best way to archive this is by buffing the weakest survivors: SoloQ players.
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