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Unhooking a Survivor should not be a Cancellable Action (And remove Healthy Grabs)
One of Campings largest issues is with Insta-down Killers (and Healthy grabs) effectively gating survivors from being able to perform an Unhook at all. Meaning you can't just balance around a trade when the optimal play is to try and knock two people out of commission at once leveraging a Power that is not available for every Killer.
The issue with this isn't that it's strong (which it is), but it promotes a gameplay style that is all about squashing player interaction and inflating MMR with very uninteractive methods.
IMO unsafe unhooks should only ever result in a trade, unless the survivor is stupid and runs in Injured or fails to path correctly post-hit or runs into an insta-down Killers Power before they get to the Hook.
To that end I think that if a Survivor starts the Unhook interaction, that Action should not be stopped, even if the Survivor is put into the Dying state.
Comments
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You are not supposed to unhook next to the killer. And yes, you should be punished for it.
If the killer is camping bring reassurance, or smash gens and leave. Stop asking for the easy and free 4 man escape.
This would be a massive buff to unhooking, meaning you only have a tap the hook to guarantee the save, that’s stupid. It negates any kind of skill from the killer or survivor perspective.
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Speaking as a a former arsemunch of a salty Killer, with an instadown, it takes zero skill to prep a hit into the unhook animlock.
What takes skill is zoning approaching survivors and getting an early M1 in so that you can followup another basic attack before the unhook animation is finished so the Unhooked Survivor can’t bodyblock (or so the Unhooker can’t use DeadHard).
99% Myers into an instadown on anyone stupid enough to go for the save is not skillfull, especially if you bank on tiering up while the Survivor is going for the Unhook. In fact that’s kinda a fail if you weren’t able to intercept the survivor with the instadown before they reached the Hook.
The Killer, by all accounts, should be following other Survivors after getting a Hook. If they are not, then it is not the Survivor making the Hook unsafe, and if the survivor can reach the Hook before the Killer intercepts, that’s fair game for a trade.
Because guess what? Trades aren’t trades at all! That Survivor that just traded lost all chase time potential their health states had, just to be put into the dying state fresh for a Hook.
Arguably the Healthy grab is skillful, but I’d rather see that nerfed as to not be mandatory gameplay skill and Killers buffed in not so mindnumingly dull methods of match interaction.
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I usually say make it so survivors have to commit to the unhook a lot little longer so killers can get the grab. If the survivor initiates a stand off they shouldn't be winning it so easily. I say healthy grabs should be a thing just to be able to not have to trade.
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The longer the grab window you introduce against Healthy Survivors on Unhooking the more you effectively give all Killers an Insta-down should they choose to sit on Hook, and the more you reinforce camping as the optimal playstyle.
If you let the Survivors reach the Hook unpunished, you did not zone them correctly, they touched the pole. Adding to the criteria “but now you have to stand there for a second and if I touch you it doesn’t matter” kinda makes for an annoying design.
You sound like a survivor complaining that it’s unfair that the Killers can’t be flashlight stunned during the pickup animation as well.
It shouldn’t be there because it’s arse design.
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If it helps campers it's just a side effect really.
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Frankly speaking the only time you’ll be sitting near a Hooked Survivor outside of EGC is if you’re camping, so it’s not really a side effect. And if you want EGC to be more interesting there’s better ways than Hook grabs.
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Not really. Survivors definitely just run over whether they think you saw them or not. Many times have survivors just openly ran to the hook before I can even leave the area.
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There are a few ways to counter this. Flashbang is one, another is everyone working together to unhook the survivor if the killer is camping, if someone gets grabbed while unhooking, let one flashbang or use a flashlight for a save, and the other can unhook. It's all about team work, my friend and I only solo q, and we often are not on voice together and we manage to pull it off a lot. I think its fine how it is.
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Yeah, you’re a Killer, go get ‘em tiger! Instead of twiddling your thumbs sittin on yer bum like a statue waiting for an animlock.
The level of coordination you’re describing is also valid, but I wouldn’t say expected across the board, or warranted given how little coordination is required on the Killers part for camping.
Flashbang/Flashlights are items, valid but the expectation to always have one on hand isn’t.
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But I am getting them. In fact their coming to get me and there gonna go for the animlok
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Strategically they should just let the Survivor die on Hook and never interact with you if coming to Hook means that it needs three Survivors at all times and is a guaranteed trade at three or a double down with two as you seem to want.
You’re playing to win, they’re not, and your MMR is being artificially inflated because of that, making you face harder opponents that you find the need to camp against since you’re not at that MMR skill-level to properly chase or exert pressure, and it all just feeds into you needing to camp to pad stats.
They’re coming to you because sitting on gens is a lot more boring than being in chases or trying to rescue your friends.
And if you make camping even easier to do all you’re going to do is get Killer nerfed. (Hence thread).
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Still don't understand why there is no anticamping mechanics in the game basekit
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I disagree. Currently you need 2 People to initiate a save unhook, which i think is a good balance. It makes Reassurance and Kindred make sense. The only problem is that certain Killers have the ability to insta-down which i think should not be possible near hooks ( best example being Bubba ). Also it shouldnt be possible that the Killer can stand in the middle of the hook making it impossible to protect the unhooking Survivor from being grabed.
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If a survivor comes to you, I doubt you'd just ignore them right. Guy in hook and guy in front of you ya know. He ain't getting close enough to chase and honestly why even go through the trouble.
Saying mmr is being artificially inflated is a bit rough. if those actions cause you to be skyrocketed then I'd assume that's more of a devs problem than a player one.
But all in all I wouldn't change the honesty grab and unhook so drastically.
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Course I wouldn’t ignore them. But if they’re far enough away as you say they’re far enough you can start to proxy (to look for the survivor likely hiding around the hook) and circle back in on them once they move closer to Hook or you get closer.
I wouldn’t just stand there ignoring them.
And yeah, if you rely on hook camping, more specifically in the context of this thread Insta-down camping and Healthy grabs, it will artificially inflate your MMR.
And yes, this is a dev problem, and to fix it, I am suggesting these changes to Unhooking.
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Okay I will change my perks to Reassurance in started game lol . And you cant do 5 gens while killer camping a hook there is no time Mr salty killer main.
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"Unhooking a survivor not being cancelled" would also remedy unhook spam that makes the camera POV obnoxious for the person on the hook
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