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How killer sided maps should be? BHVR : YES !
Wretched Shop
Killer can literally see both doors with lights not covered in fog from one spot without moving.
(I escaped btw, thx to my selfish build and selfish playstyle in solo q).
But how are average survivors supposed to have a realistic chance to win a door game in such conditions?
Also a nice example:
4 gens on one side of Azarov. Just keep hooking survivors in that half of the map and camp them. Ez win.
Even if survivors somehow manage to finish one gen, you still have a 3gen on this side!
(me and my team all escaped, but only because killer was a baby and didnt know how to play this map comp style).
Comments
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To be fair, Azarov's Resting Place is probably one of the most RNG-based realms. You can have like several different filler pallets chaining between loops and shack or just having a bunch of deadzones and awful loops.
Post edited by Iron_Cutlass on13 -
Because RNG.
Horrible gate spawns, horrible gen spawns and horrible hook spawns have been in the game for very long. The fact alone that a hook will always spawn around Shack is flawed philosophy, in my personal opinion.
They also recently added new tiles, which are so horrible, you are ironically better off running the tiles on the outskirts of the map.
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I mean, yeah, Wretched Shop and Wrecker's Yard are pretty killer friendly. So is Midwich and Shelter Woods.
There's way more purely survivor-sided maps, though. All variations of Badham, The Game, Garden of Joy, Eyrie, RPD, Cowshed, Gas Heaven, Groaning Storehouse. And apart from Midwich, gates are pure RNG. I think it's rather silly to claim BHVR is trying to cater to killers with their map design when they haven't released a single killer-friendly map in two years.
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yeah just ignore... crotus prenn, gideons, swamp, most of the cold winds, 3 of the macmillans.... Oh yeah cant forget badham and RPD being inherently survivor sided :) but 2 images of bad RNG = extremely sided.
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Haddonfield.
Except two buildings with strong windows this map is usually pretty unstacked and survivors can't do much besides holding W into nothing.
You will never see Badham in usual map rotation unless you bring a map offering. Those maps have a chance of like less than 1% each.
Game is survivor sided only against certain killers. It's pretty much killer sided against Nurse and stealth killers.
Garden of Joy is survivor sided, yes.
Eyrie is balanced, cuz there is ALWAYS a 3gen around main building. I got a 4 k with Bubba there literally yesterday with first hook at 2 gens left (but 3 of them were in/around main building...)
RPD is not survivor sided against stealth killers.
Cowshed, Gas Heaven and Groaning Storehouse are pretty survivor sided, yes. Groaning Storehouse is very RNG dependend however and can be balanced or even killer sided if you only get pallet gyms, 4 lanes, TLs and new crap tiles.
Ironworks, Mother's Dwelling and Grey Panties (if survivors know how to play it) are other survivor sided maps.
Sanctum of Wrath is killer sided. Every map is Nurse sided except Lery's and RPD.
However. Even on most survivor sided maps I've seen such crap door spawns, with literally 0 chance of winning if killer knows how to play door game properly.
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Most maps are survivor sided, some rng making it a bit better for killer in comparison on a map like azarov proves no lack of balance, quite the contrary
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I spit out my drink when I read the post saying Eyrie of Crows is balanced. Lmao
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Let's ignore the fact that the last two released maps have been blatantly survivor sided.
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RPD also has fixed gates now, but even before there were only two possible arrangements and both were very survivor-friendly so I'd call that effectively fixed gate spawns.
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Badham, haddonfield, the game, eyrie of crows, garden of joy, swamp, guess these dont exist
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Ormond, Haddonfield, red forest, coldwind, the game... should I keep going? And those are realms btw
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RNG tile placement is unironically more important than the actually map unless it's mostly fixed like the game or the inherit map shape like azarov's resting place.
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Yeah killers have few maps that are ok for them but even those with bad RNG can become quite survivor friendly. Lets just forget that 90% of the maps are heavily survivor friendly. New maps are horrible for killers.
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“look at how killer sided this is”
”I escaped both times”
👍
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The distribution design, same to Suffo pit. Like 5 - 6 gyms in the middle, the nothing at corners.
I can say RNG gives stronger gym or not. But 6 gyms next to each other isnt RNG.
OP didnt tell how many survivors die in both match. It could be 6 death and 2 escape that on OP.
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Yeah doors are complete rng. The fact that even double speed blight can struggle to defend doors means your argument goes both ways and I'm willing to bet killer's will struggle with door spawns more often than survivor's do :). And probably around 65% of maps are survivor sided.
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Don’t forget Ormond and Asylum!
And Chapel if it has the god window.
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There's like 3 killer sided maps in the game opposed to 20 survivor sided ones
About the door game, it's completely RNG. Sometimes the killer doesn't even have to move to patrol both doors, others they are so far apart that not even Blight can patrol them.
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Most of the maps are surv sided though.
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It always makes me laugh when people think haddonfield is survivor sided. When in fact it just has two stron buildings an nothing more. Most of the time killer can even stand still on the street and see both doors on opposite sides of the map. Witch hatch spawning under their ass on this street.
Same with Ormond. Hypocritical killler mains should have played old Ormond. New Ormond just have a decent main building but other than this its a pretty balanced or even killer sided map (play nurse lmao).
If maps are survivor sided, I cant get how killer are able to get a 60% kill rate, not counting matches with a DC. So actually even 70-80% kill rate.,
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Haddonfield is not killer sided. It's hard to classify because it contains elements that are bad for both sides, but it has a guaranteed infinite and another extremely strong window loop in main.
Badham appears just as much as any realm. I've gotten it twice in the last five matches with no map offerings used.
The Game is not killer sided vs stealth killers. It's not as strong as Midwich or RPD for sneaking around corners and difficulty seeing, and no stealth killer has an antiloop power that works against the metric ton of pallets and unmindgameable loops. Wraith with his fast break addon, maybe. But Myers, Sadako, Ghostface, Pig? They're all in agony here. The only killers that like this map are Nurse (because Nurse), Hag and Doctor (small size works with their powers well), and Nemesis and Bubba (because they easily quickbreak pallets and there's virtually no windows here.) Artist is okay because there's several loops where she can trap survivors, but the two-story nature of the map doesn't work in her favor.
Eyrie having a gen cluster around the main building and a deficit on the other side doesn't balance out the sheer immensity of pallets it contains.
Stealth killers are strong on RPD but still weak to pallets and the sheer size of the map. Sadako and Wraith are better off because they have mobility and Pig benefits because of the box spread - I don't think Myers is great here because it's so easy for survivors to W away from him for the entire duration of T3. Same with Ghostface. It's also one of the absolute worst maps for ranged killers and Billy.
I'll accept Sanctum being killer-sided, but in that case I'd add that Family Residence is survivor-sided due to the gen split, because that's what makes Sanctum so favorable for killers.
As for the last point... hm. I do think it's a bit dumb when doors spawn right next to each other, yeah. But I'm fine with the door game being random and occasionally unwinnable because to reach that point in the match, survivors have to have essentially lost. Doors being close together doesn't matter nearly as much if more than one survivor is alive, to the point of being pretty much worthless if all four are up.
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Being able to watch both exit gates on Haddonfield is hardly important if you don't reach a point where it's 1 survivor trying to open an exit gate. Haddonfield has ridiculously strong windows on the houses that can't even be reduced with breakable walls. Survivors can absolutely run killers around a house without dropping a single pallet for quite a while just because of how strong the multiple windows are.
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It's times where its one survivor where this is the most important, really.
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I mean, yeah, but if you're the last survivor because everyone else is dead and the hatch is closed, your shot at escaping is and should be a Hail Mary.
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My point is that the exit gates spawning in a way that make it easier for the killer to watch is not exactly a sign that the map is killer sided. Because if the game doesn't end in that 1 survivor left situation, then the exit gate largely spawns don't matter.
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It's a long shot, sure as it should be... but it doesn't need to be made any more oppressive as having a clear line of sight. Last time I was on haddonfield the hatch spawned in the road and the Doctor I was against literally just stood on it and kept turning round to see each door. There was literally no way I was getting out and I had a key which I'd found in the basement too.
I obviously don't blame the killer for doing this, if you can why not? But u just think it could do with a bit if a tweak on the other end to give a bit more of a change. Against the likes of Wesker and Blight it's just a non starter.
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I'm not trying to imply that the gate position makes a map killer sided....but it definitely does make certain maps where their spawn locations seems much less random consistently (Haddonfield and the Game are most guilty of this but The Game is so large it doesn't matter) more oppressive for sole survivors and the vast majority of matches I play always seen to boil down to that scenario. Ultimately its not a big deal. Its one or two maps really.
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this is an rng thing, the map isnt always like that.
meanwhile the things that make garden of joy, eyrie of crows, haddonfield, rpd, game,thompson house, badham, etc bad arent rng, theyre always that bad
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Eyrie is not balanced. It has tons of pallets, lots of the are safe and the map is HUGE!
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My current theory is that, because of the way the game is structured, balanced maps are always going to feel survivor sided. Especially balanced maps at a diverse range of different skill levels.
In a chase, a killer wins if they're in a dead zone. They use their basic attack or their power to get downs and there's nothing the survivor can do about it. The way a survivor "fights" in a chase is to use the map. That makes the map the survivor's "weapon" in a chase. Once the survivor doesn't have any resources, they're basically dead in any chase and very quickly.
The number of resources can drain really quickly because sometimes objectives just don't exist in areas with those resources. If you finished a gen near a pallet, the killer has no reason to ever chase you there and that pallet can go unused.
This will mean that a map that has enough resources for a survivor to survive in a chase long enough to give their teammates time to complete the generators will feel like it's unbalanced in survivor's favor.
And then there are maps that really are just unbalanced or just frustrating. I think The Game is a killer sided map that's really frustrating to play as certain killers. Relatively small map, two floors (harder in solo queue because you don't know what floor the terror radius is on), and basically no windows? Usually good for killers. The pallets just get really annoying and time consuming especially since most of them are safe.
Garden of Joy is just ridiculous though. That one just spawns too many pallets and has too many safe loops and the main building is just so ridiculous. I'm not saying all maps are balanced. Far from it. Just that, even in a perfect world where maps are always balanced, it'll probably still feel survivor sided.
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