No techs should be removed
I've been seeing some posts about techs and if they should be removed over the past couple of days and I believe no tech should he removed besides the weired blight one that was fixed a month ago or smthin.
Cj techs, 360s's, window techs, and all the weired ass name techs should not be removed because they create and extra skill set in the game. For the most part it is extremely hard to pull off such techs in high mmr and it gives a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment when you do so, especially against good killers. They are fun but difficult and do not break the game in anyway. Although when you 360 and snap your ankles in half its a very good mechanic and skill that can give you reward if you do it correctly.
Most people that complain about techs are no offense, the lower mmr players. It's not your fault though, it's mmr. You are probably supposed to be going against low mmr but you end up going against 3000 swf squad. So yeah I would get why you would complain about removing techs, mmr just destroyes everything and provides horrible statistics and info which leads to people complaining about something that shouldn't be complained about
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Tbf if as window tech you are refering to that flashlight bug, that needs to go as if there is no LOS that has no counterplay whatsoever, the others are fine and yeah they are skillfull in their own way.
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if its an exploit, it needs to go..
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For WT I just mean it generally. No item should help that
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But no techs are an exploit right?
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Cj techs looks like one to me, but i could be wrong... only BHVR can answer that.
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multiple techs are exploits of bugs that exist within the game, people call them techs to weaponize them in an attempt to diffuse arguments against them.
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Tech = exploit with positive connotations.
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Ah yes, let's take advice from the person with 'toxic survivor' as their username.
So what you're saying is basically any survivor tech they should keep, but any killer tech needs to get patched.
OK 👁👄👁
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As long as a "tech" has a counter, it should not be removed.
"Aside from locker saves spam"
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If a killer gets CJ tech'd in 2022 it's a skill issue , it's so simple to counter there's no reason to remove it , you don't even have to run perks to counter it
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Nah idk, the window tech with clairvoyance is kinda dumb as somebody who used the original one to juke people
When its something natural it can be cheesy but fine, however being able to trigger something that was already patched by using an oversight in the form of a perk or item means it needs to be removed
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Bug abuse is cheating.... end of story...
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Some can be (hug tech is exploiting blight’s awful collision detection, allowing you to hug tech iirc)
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So Blight techs do not add extra skillset to the character? I mean why have the op survivor techs like the window tech without LOS and locker techs that have very little to no counterplay stay but remove the killer techs? Locker tech feels awful especially on dead dawg saloon in main, that needs to go asap...
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I noticed that survivor techs were ok bit killer techs are clearly bs.
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Gotta say I love you admitting that the Blight flicks + hug tech should be fixed but CJs, 360s, and window techs should all stay. A funny little line between sides there.
Honestly something should only be fixed as a priority if it is fully unintended, grants a substantial advantage, has very little counterplay, and is unsupported by the devs.
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Window techs are probably one of the only few current techs that are based on bugs. I'm not sure why the killer loses collision for that millisecond. However, I'll have to say that it's extremely difficult to hit them and they aren't too hard to counter.
But why do people mind CJs and 360s? The former is easy to expect and super easy to counter and punish and not a bug, while the other works once at best.
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One of the most annoying things as killer is when a survivor is in front of you within lunge range, but the lunge will miss 80% of the time if they wiggle by spamming left and right.
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The survivor continued running away after they vaulted the pallet, so I pressed the Break button. Their model teleported back to the pallet and were now vaulting it while I picked up. They vaulted back and got the blind.
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To me, it always depends on what it requires from the user, what it gives from the user and what the person going against it can do about it.
I think all current techs are fine, and I'm including Blight's hug tech, except for the one with the flashlight where you vault back while making the vault sound, although I wouldn't be opposed to that being a perk or something.
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Exploits should be fixed and, maybe, kept as techs if they're additive and not broken.
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Do you consider not being able to break a pallet while it's being vaulted a exploit?
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I think it's more about not having dedicated buttons for "pick up survivor" vs "break pallet." I don't know why every game dev these days seems to think it's a good idea to overload buttons so they do more than one thing, unless it's actually impossible to have both options at the same time (e.g. spacebar for hooking a survivor is fine since you can't kick a pallet while carrying anyway).
See also: console players who drop pallets instead of healing. Though this should not be an issue at all on PC where we have 100+ buttons on our keyboards.
Let me bind "pick up survivor" separately and I can just bind it to R, the same key used to drop survivors by default. This "fixes" CJ by having the spacebar simply do nothing at all if a survivor is vaulting the pallet, which seems like a good change to me. Tricking the killer into doing an action on an overloaded button by blocking the other action seems to me to fall into the category of "unintended mechanics." Like tricking the killer into vaulting a window or checking a locker instead of picking up, which -- while comical when it happens -- is still dumb.
Note this hits on the survivor side as well. In particular, being in deep wounds blocks some actions such as opening the gates because mending has higher priority over the E button. This is honestly just bad design. Some actions shouldn't be blocked by others simply because they share the same input key.
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By the weird blight tech, do you mean the one with dissolution and c33 by chance? It was pretty funny tbh and turned him into a m1 killer, not even really a tech just some weird bug.
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Ironically he seems pretty fair from what I have seen lol.
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"For the most part it is extremely hard to pull off such techs in high mmr "
Really? Heal tech requires zero skill and can often be seen even in top MMR streams. I note that you don't even mention that one when discussing "techs" aka exploits. And yes, I refer to "techs" on both sides - can't wait to see the already-OP Blight lose the BS "hug tech"
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360s are unintended behavior, and should be fixed. When a survivor holds the shift key and cycles through the W/A/S/D keys, that is the intended spinning speed. BHVR should remove anything that allows survivors to spin faster than that.
Blight had an intended rush turning speed, and people figured out how to turn faster than that, and that got removed. 360s are the same situation, and should be removed as well.
Post edited by Coffeecrashing on1 -
I guess we should've kept hook tech, map tech and flashlight/locker tech in the game then. Would be so fun right now...
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100% true. most techs are completely counterable
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It's not bug abuse it's knowing that you can't break a pallet a survivor is vaulting, it's really on BHVR for tying those two actions to the same button when it should be different.
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Cj tech is not an Exploit there room for situations to make things change
If you play forhonor it's like getting a light parry you predicted when they are going to make an input and got a chance at punishing it
And the counterplay is patience
Others techs is debatable
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Exploits should be hunted down and fixed asap, but most techs are not exploits. Stuff like cj heal techs are not exploits but hugtech windowtech oni flicking are exploits.
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I'm not saying all killer techs should go. The blight tech was a clear exploit. It's different when a killer has a power that can be used. Survivors do not have a special ability, therefore making techs for them a needed thing to be more engaging and fun. I support most killer techs, just not the blight one. He was already cracked before tech
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I would say CJ borders on the edge of being an exploit as it abuses the killer's interaction button being overloaded to do too many things instead of having "pick up" and "break" be separate buttons. Claiming that it's intended that survivors can block one of the things the spacebar does to trick them into doing another thing the spacebar does seems disingenuous at best.
Having said that, it's probably the least abusive exploit I've ever seen because it almost never works (I've only fallen for it once and it was due to being distracted by IRL stuff that was going on) and it gives the killer both a free hit and a broken pallet.
I think every single action should be able to be bound to a different key, which would "fix" CJ tech in a roundabout way by actually fixing the underlying problem, which incidentally is the same problem that prevents console players from healing under a pallet, prevents survivors in deep wounds from opening the exit gates, and can cause survivors to accidentally jump into lockers adjacent to a vault they are trying to take: one button doing multiple things that are all possible at the same time.
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CJ is 110% not an exploit. Exploits ether break or outright ignore game mechanics. CJing is comparable to moonwalking. It's a clever way to use the base game mechanics.
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The common definition of an exploit includes "use of elements of a game system in a manner not intended by the game's designers, in a way that gives a substantial unfair advantage to players using it." So I suppose you could argue that it's not a "substantial unfair advantage" since it almost always backfires, so the advantage is arguably negative -- but I have a hard time imagining you could argue in good faith that CJ is "use of elements of a game system in a manner intended by the game's designers."
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It's really easy to argue in good faith about CJing if you actually use a reasonably definition for exploiting. "use of elements of a game system in a manner not intended by the game's designers" is an insanely broad definition that if you were to use it as it read would make a large amount of the current gameplay would be considered exploiting. Moonwalking and looping are "exploits" under that definition. Cjtech isn't an exploit because no mechanics are broken or ignored, just like moonwalking and looping. A good example of what i believe is an exploit is hugtech or the flashlight window exploit, you are very very clearly breaking game mechanics when doing these exploits. Ether with ignoring collision or changing your vault direction with the window exploit.
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"Not intended by the developers" is a required part of the definition of an exploit. I could just as easily argue that "breaking and ignoring mechanics" is underspecified. Was endurance stacking on the 6.1.0 PTB "breaking mechanics" or was it just using endurance? It all hinges on whether the developers intended it to be in the game.
I can't think of a possible argument that says it's not an exploit to abuse an oversight in how keybindings currently work to make a player perform a completely different type of action than they intended, unless we are just going to disagree on what even constitutes an exploit in the first place.
And yes, looping originally was technically an exploit under this definition when it was first discovered. Abusing the old infinites in particular under your definition wouldn't be an exploit, and I would disagree there. Since then the developers have embraced looping and fixed infinites in most cases by adding entity blocking of vaults, so it's an example of something that I would say was an exploit originally and was then adopted as a core mechanic.
Moonwalking is not an exploit because it confers no advantage to the player using it. It's like sky-billy. Unintended and silly, but not an exploit.
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Whats CJ tech again?
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So we should bring back the following techs:
Flicking for Billy (this means you saw sprint at 0° and at the end of the sprint you can flick in any direction you want to down a survivor).
All skybilly tech.
BIly tech to "warp" through certain windows instantly.
Sorry but no. This is just a quick list looking at one character. You want the tech that makes the game fun for you and less fun for the opponent - not game balance.
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Exploits called camp and tunnels, which have been exploited by killers for years, are still in the game.
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Those are legit strategies, that are supported by perks.
Using exploits are cheating
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Exploiting bad design of the game is then cheating too instead of "legit tactics". You have too strict criteria - I just made them a bit stricter to the depriment of fun in game. Actually every exploit that brings more fun interactions as opposed to frustration should be legit thing in a game and should not be removed.
Maybe if devs have enough time - they could remove their "exploit feel" and instead add it back in under more regular interactions (great example was flashlight fake vaulting - they shouldn't have removed it. Instead they should have attached it onto a perk or let's say addon to key or something like that. The interaction is fun, but it feels wrong to require flashlight as that makes 0 sense)
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Let me google the definition of an exploit for you:
"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitch, or use of elements of a game system in a manner not intended by the game's designers, in a way that gives a substantial unfair advantage to players using it."
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sure. And under loose definition abusing bad design from a game is exploit. Strictly speaking it isn't. Yet you are abusing problematic part of a game for your advantage over other (survivor) players.
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I am not, i play mostly survivor since 6.1.
But i dont cheat.
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it's not cheating. The game allows it. Devs know about these things and do not forbid it. So it's not cheating.
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Using exploits is cheating ... end of story
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Devs can say it's intended or OK. How would you know which part is not intended? There's active thread where 1 person asks to remove 360, because "it provides unintended spin rate for survivors". And yet another person points out that devs talked about this one and it IS intended.
Meaning - you thinkink that something is not intended means nothing. Because you just don't know. And if devs find out about something which really was not intended, then they can (with few exceptions) kill switch that part of the game. So you should at default consider everything to be intended behavior in game
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I think you need to read ALL my comments again.
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