Eruption should work like Oppression
The perk should have a hard skillcheck tied to the incapacitated part. Where, when a survivor is downed all previously kicked gens regress 10% and all survivors currently repairing get a difficult skillcheck. If they fail, they get the incapacitated status.
Like so, their is a counterplay for solo players by succeeding to land the skillcheck. What do you think ?
Comments
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Not a bad idea
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would be better if it had a 1 second delay before coming into effect, skillchecks are usually too easy to avoid, unless you make it incredibly hard, but then it would just be a total noob & soloq killer again
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Maybe it can be tied to the terror radius like jolt so you get punished for doing gens near the killer but you get rewarded for staying away.
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So make that perk great againts new players and bad againts good / decent players? Nah.
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Very least it offers a counterplay against the perk's most problematic aspect, a status effect that keeps you from playing the game that you have no way to counter besides luck or teammates on comms.
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nah it's a pretty huge buff to an already borderline op perk also it would make it dunk on newer players hardcore
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The problem with that is 2 fold
It would be to similar to Oppression if that were the case
And Newer players will struggle with it
It's also the reason why Oppression has a longer cooldown (the skillcheck and affecting multiple Gen with a single Kick)
At this point I would point to Oppression as the reason why they need to fix the base Gen regression
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Yes, and it also need oppression's cooldown
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And should it only work once per gen as well?
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Potentially yes, that's a great idea
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And survivors should heal each other at a 33% speed, and also should get a 8% speed penalty when they run.
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It's a net nerf. No more insta explosion without counterplay. So you can still let go of the gen but if you don't, there is a skillcheck.
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I'd argue that the cooldown from oppression is the reason why the perk is not very usable. You won't manege to proc it after every chase. Make the 2 cooldown the same and put a skillcheck on eruption and you got 2 perks that works similarly but at different time of the game. And for the risk of gatekeeping Newer players, I think the state of eruption rn is much worse with no counterplay whatsoever.
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Increase the regression penalty and make it apply even if the skill check was successful.
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So you want to be able to completely nullify the perk by pressing SPACEBAR? That's a no from me, dawg.
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Should the killer then get a skillcheck if he hits a gen with a blast mine? Because that same argument holds true there.
If the killer succed he just breaks the gen normally, and avoids blast mine.
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You'd still get the regression so the perk is still relevent. Either way they are gonna change the perk so better find smt that won't destroy it.
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Blast mine is also bad design. You can see it on top of a gen but if you want to kick it you're force to eat it. Matbe they should let the killer lunge at the gen to get rid of it like lockers lock for Dredge.
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If all I get out of is regression, there are better regression options. Hell, Oppression is better at that point. That's sad.
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Was my favorite perk before the buff and still is, but I like the idea. But I would like to buff the very concept of "hard skill check", to reduce its window for all perks to skill checks, so that its window would be like with active Unnerving Presence
Post edited by FeryGEN on0 -
Killers can see that? I know survivors can but I can't recall if I ever did on Killer, or watching Killer gameplay. Not sure if that means it wasn't there or I just missed it.
An alternative for Eruption: You know how when you miss a skill check there's a period where you get no progress even if you're holding M1? What if that happened to the gen post down? The gen loses progress, you can't immediately get it back, but you're not incapacitated.
Or put in a delay like Dissolution. Down a survivor and, 1-2 seconds later, blow up the gen and incapacitate. Observant survivors can get warning to counterplay, less observant survivors take the hit.
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But Oppression has that cooldown for a reason
So apply that to Eruption... give it a longer cooldown
There is counterplay to Eruption... it's just that players haven't done it yet... Gen Tapping is still a thing... not hard focusing a recently kicked Gen... or just wait till it activates then repair the Gen
Overcharge is a perk that didn't see much use until it got bonus regression for time elapsed... the skillcheck that doesn't go away when a Survivor lets go of a Gen is wrong
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If you're tapping, you still have 1/2 chance that you'll be affected. I don't think that count as counterplay. For the cooldown part I agree that slapping long CD on stronger effect can work to mitigate their strenght but from à gameplay stand point it feels bad to play. Like, the only time eruption Cd matter, it just forces the killer to camp the gen until he can use his perk. I'd argue it's even worse for Oppression, the perk could have the same Cd as eruption and still be just OK to use.
So, increasing the Cd won't solve the problem with eruption. It just make it less consistent to use. I think it's a healthy perk in the way it triggers. They just need to solve the problem with incapacitated beeing very hard to counter.
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First idea idk because they don't like when survs have no info on whats going on. They would need to make the gen block from entity and i feel like it would be way too strong with 25s.
Your second idea could work but I feel like it would get even worse than a skillcheck were every experienced surv will let go of the gen and never trigger incapacitated. At least with a check you've got some synergies with other perks and killer powers.
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You're right that the big issue to the second idea, to my mind as well, is beginner vs experience. Knowing what's happening and how to respond to it and being able to do so quick enough. That's one reason I thought the delay should be as small as is reasonable. A slow reaction can get an experienced survivor just as much as a new one.
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So 50% the chance is the same as 100% got it....
What I'm saying is to Tap the Gen that's regressing (to stop it) then either work on it if you know what the Killer is up to or go to work on another Gen or cleanse/ bless a totem... Open a chest
There's more Gens (7) on the map... Unless you find yourself in a Three Gen situation (which is mostly Survivors fault)
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Ah. So blast mine progresses gen by 10% if it hits and also stops killer to both M1 or M2 for hlaf a minute? Got it. Sure then. Such a meta survivor perk should be nerfed and get a way how to be circumvented by e.g. a skillcheck.
Oh now I realized. Blast mine is used just for memes or for tome challenges for survivors that can't consistently blind/stun killer. Because at best this perk can waste 5s of killer's time when not chasing anyone - making it worthless perk for normal gameplay. But more often then not, the perk can do exactly nothing.
Check out usage rate of eruption vs blast mine. Maybe this will hint to you which one of those deserves buff and which nerf.
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Yet, the argument that i did react to holds true for blast mine as well as eruption. Nothing you just said has anything to do with that.
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Buff blast mine to actually do something impactful against killer (the way eruption is) and then you can give "counter play" for it. If it does not do anything useful, then you don't need to have counter play. Does this clarify it for you?
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Still not the point.
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That's your POW.
IMO it's exactly the point. Eruption needs counterplay, because it does too much and there is nothing you can do to mitigate it (apart from playing in a good SWF - which is problem on it's own). If eruption regressed the gen for 2.5% and made you incapacitated for 3 seconds, nobody would ask for skillcheck or any other nerf to the perk. On the contrary people will ask for buffs to the perk
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Of course it is. I replied to a specific, flawed argument, and showed its flaws because the whole argument would apply the same way for blast mine. The point was to show the argument is flawed.
What exactly is YOUR point when you answer to me, but talk about different things and then tell me the thing i talk about AND you responded to was just my POV, and then claim the point is something else, if you respond to my post in the first place?
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I actually think Jolt needs that more than Eruption.
I love both perks equally but the one thing that bugs me about Jolt is the fact that survivors can very easily and very quickly regain the 8% lost if the killer (naturally) spends time hooking the downed survivor.
At the very least, it should make them stop repairing the gen for a few seconds, considering it just exploded while their hands were inside it...
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So then regress the Gen by 15% and incapacitated for 15 seconds
But then the "counterplay" still doesn't exist... but you aren't incapable for as long
And add Incapacitation to Vigil... that would help
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The problem with eruption is not a problem with eruption. It is the age old problem of SWF vs solo queue players. Eruption is already countered pretty heavily by SWF, and it is too strong against solo queue. As usual, what they need to do is provide solo players more information. I have always thought they need to make kindred and bond basekit. Then we can rework Eruption to be better against SWF.
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But to make Eruption work against SWF's it would destroy Solo's... IMO anyway
The problem I have with it is the fact that Some Survivor players want easy games... so they want easier counters to things they don't like
Not saying that OP is one of them
Eruption doesn't do that much damage to the Gens, but keeps Survivors from doing anything for 25 seconds
Survivors need to realize that the Gens don't need to be done in 5 minutes... and Killers need to realize that making a 3V1 off the rip isn't going to make their jobs any easier
And making a skillcheck occur for the sake of a counter may work for some players but not everyone...
So what else can be done with Eruption:
Increase the Gen regression
Decrease the Incapacitated timer
Make the cooldown longer
Or all of them
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I would opt for all 3 of them.
Anyway good points. i have just 1 addition. It's not survivors who want easier games. It's some players (on both sides).
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True... yea I got carried away there for a second
Wow... we agree on more then one thing... Are you sure this is the forums?
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Why does a perk that only works well by multiple gen kicks AND a required survivor down need counterplay?
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Because people don't bring just eruption. If you ever get to "enjoy" the combo of multiple kicking perks, you would know that kicking part has barely any downside and huge upsides. In case of eruption it provides potentially arguably more value then the down itself. Removing 3 players for half a minute + regression + slow regression over time is way too much against solo that have 0 defense against it. Killer can win the game with this perk alone (because it removes half a minute from next chase + provide information). Overall very unfair perk. Against soloQ that is.
It would be the same as if say stakeout tokens gave you 10% gen progression per usage and saying why does that need nerf - you need to be in danger to activate it so those tokens are deserved. Well no. They are not deserved for such a huge buff. Playing the game normally should not provide you with huge buff that can't be countered. That's unfair.
EDIT: To clarify - I think eruption is very strong, but still OK perk against comms SWF. Because they can tell each other to stop doing gens (but they can guess wrong). The perk is huge problem only for soloQ
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