Feedback and Suggestions
Feedback and Suggestions
The hatch needs to change. Being last feels hopeless.
Being the last survivor ever since the hatch changes now feels like a completely hopeless situation. I hardly feel like trying for it anymore and bringing a key has felt pointless since the change in most matches now. If the killer finds the hatch first, its game over. Getting a door open at that point feels like an impossible task. I've had too many matches where my team plays very poorly and I'm left at the mercy of RNG hatch as my only means of escape. Killers are rewarded far too much for early hooks and sacrifices. I can't do anything about overly altruistic players. I can't do anything about people unhooking each other 5 seconds after the killer hooks someone with me doing what feels like forever gens now and watching my team get demolished knowing I'm about to have to make a hatch run. Too many times it feels like I am being punished for the incompetence of my team.
The hatch and final survivor scenario needs to change. A suggestion I have is that if the killer finds and closes the hatch first, the exit gates are powered to 50%. This will at least make trying for the door a worth while effort and not feel like going for it was just a waste of time. My other suggestion is to have a key spawn at a random location on the map that the last survivor can see if within a certain range. The key will act like normal and open the hatch if used on it. The survivor will still be up against time and have to find the key and return to the hatch.
I would've preferred the hatch go back to the way it was before this change, but I don't think that will happen. All I know is I am at the point where I simply would rather give up when I am the last survivor. Most of the time I try for the hatch ends with me dying. It doesn't matter how well I played. Nothing throughout the match in the final survivor situation matters because it always comes down to the same situation which is find the hatch before the killer does. This feels like a solo player's nightmare and I'm pretty exhausted and beyond annoyed dealing with this.
Comments
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Exit gates powered to 50% would be WAY too easy to escape. Are you the last survivor? Hide right by and exit gate and immediatly start working on it when endgame colapse starts. Voilá, you got away for free. A key spawning at random would also put the killer at a disavantage, having to patrol both exit gates and the hatch, even after ALREADY having completed the step of finding the hatch. Want a second chance for the hatch? Bring the key yourself. The hatch is there to give the last survivor a chance, not an advantage over the killer.
The hatch is fine for the last survivor. If anything, the hatch change made harder for the killer to prevent a hatch escape. Before then the killer could slug until they found the hatch, then sacrifice the slugged survivor, go back to the hatch and close it. Even if both killer and survivor reached the hatch at the same time, the killer could close it BEFORE the survivor could jump. The killer doesn't have this advantage if nobody knows where the hatch is. The positive change made for killers was that it made so keys weren't broken and uncounterable anymore, that was perfect and should remain that way.
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Dear god no. Hatch already functions as a mechanic to allow the last survivor a chance to escape from an impossible situation (assuming killer doesn't slug for 4k). As long as the gates have any measure of distance between them, and/or the killer isn't a high mobility killer, you can literally hide by a gate, wait for the killer to patrol it, then open it fully before they have time to come back. Or, better yet, you can bring perks or items that let you find hatch, or even a key to open the closed hatch after killer closes it.
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I have 2,322 hours played in this game as survivor. I have never been able to hide by the exit gate and open it in time before the killer got there after closing the hatch. "Got away for free" is a myth among killer mains when the last survivor just so happens to beat the odds and escape. Keys now are largely useless. To get any value from a hatch key now you have to be the last survivor and find the hatch before the killer finds you after its closed. I can't play a key every match as a backup plan in case I am the last survivor. At that point it basically becomes a BP dump because you're playing it hoping you won't die or lose it before it can even be used.
I know survivor is a team game, but often times I don't really have a team and end up being punished for other people's failures. The killer is then rewarded further from your hopeless situation. It sucks when you're giving your all and your team is giving 1/10th of what you're giving and you end up paying for it. The current end game for the last survivor feels unbalanced and unfair.
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You should not get a free escape after already losing the match. If 3 of your teammates died and you didn't manage to open the gates, hatch should not guarantee you escape. That part works fine. Also, why exactly do you need a third chance at escaping even after the killer closed the hatch? That means you lost TWICE already, yet you can still win. The situation you described is not problematic because of how the hatch works but because of SoloQ teams that run around like headless chickens.
I agree on the part about keys though. They're pretty much useless now because the only scenario where they actually have any value is so niche that you can never predict it. I guess you couldl use the strongest addons on a key and gain a significant advantage but honestly for the item itself there really isn't much utility. In my oppinion the best solution to keys would be to completely rework them in a hatch unrelated way.
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If they brought basekit UB only when 2 people are left I think would be a good way to combat this.
If they cannot find find the last survivor while the other is slugged for 45 seconds they can get up and the game might be able to be turned around. I think it is a decent comeback mechanic in this case. If survivors don't deserve to escape if they played well all game but made mistakes late game then the same should be the case for killer. They should not get an almost guaranteed 4k because they decided to slug. It should come with a bit of risk that they can leave the game with a 2k.
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I don't care how many hours you have, the 50% idea would literally cause a survivor to hide in the locker nearest a door, wait for the hatch slam, and then get an 8 seconds door timer. That's a hard no.
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Finding the hatch is very much luck sided on both ends. Killers move faster and their presence may cause the last survivor to not go anywhere near the killer's location. Very often I see killers find the hatch within 2 seconds of the third survivor dying. They put no effort in it and if a survivor goes for the gate chances are they will be found and they won't be able to open the gates.
The system heavily rewards the killer for this even when the killer has played poorly but only won due to the survivors bad decision-making. Solo players get punished as always.
What works more often as survivor is just going to the gates directly before the hatch is closed and wait.
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Use solo survivor perk makes you able to open exit gate 50% quicker. When you're last survivor start to open exit immediatelly when hatch is closed. You should get out unless the hatch was very close to the exit.
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The hatch Mechanik is not great but it should be hard to still escape as the last survivor when you Team didn't manage to fix the gens your team lost just like it's way harder to secure a kill when all 4 are alive and the gates are powered (some killer might be a exception here)
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Weird take, but okay. Hatch is a free extra chance to escape, most killers nowadays are bored to slug for the 4k. Don't take it too serious if you get the hatch or not, its a 50/50 anyway.
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I very commonly see people slug for the 4k. I'm not sure if it's a 50/50. Would probably need statistics from BHVR if they can track it, how common it is for a survivor to escape via hatch after 3k with all hooked and slug at last 2 survivors.
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being last feels hopeless
That is kind of the point...
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I meant 50/50 if he doesn't go for the slug but yea, if the killer slugs, he can probably guarantee the 4k most of the times at that point.
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Shouldn't it be a bit harder for killer to also get 4k?
It's difficult to get your first hook and 1st kill, but then it gets easier. And when it's 2 survivors left with 3-2 gens more to do it's even easier, heck even if they complete the last gen chances are they are both going down near the exit gates. Survivor should have come back mechanics in those cases even if one can escape. Thematically even it makes sense as final girl etc.
Killers can turn games around in end game if they are bringing certain perks. If they brought gen defense and slowdown perks, then they should have peaked mid game and if 3-4 survivors escape it is kind of on the killer. If survivors use end-game perks, they are not even guaranteed to make it there most of the time. But killer is always guaranteed to play late game.
As survivor even if you're good you still have a high chance of dying. Slugging for the 4k is a ######### mechanic and basekit unbreakable in this case, when only 2 are left would make sense for this kind of situation.
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How about a new free perk that guarantees a key in a chest after the gates are powered ?
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All you say is true but the other side is not defenseless either survivor can Brin Gen perks to and toolboxes to counter gen perks.
Certain things need balance I know that and bhvr should start working on that like some perks being to much and camping and tunneling. But from the killer perspective I can tell you it always feels crappy when you played good and had a good game you could get the 4k you played good for and then rgn hatch hits you
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From the survivor side I can tell you that also playing good having no hooks and saving people and then getting denied hatch feels very unfair. it's not my fault if the game puts me in the same game as a Bill who can't do gens and a David who dies 10 seconds in a chase. I'm not giving my hook state for these kinds of teammates. And then I save them, heal them do 2 gens. Killer tried to chase but leaves after 20 - 30 seconds of not catching me and I still die because killer wants to slug, or because killer found hatch and I can't open the exit gates in time.
You don't know the killer is bringing gen perks, but the killer knows when you're bringing a toolbox. Should I bring gen perks everytime then? Perhaps. Maybe it's my fault for not bringing the most optimal build.
But still who played better, me or the killer? I did everything that's there to do as a solo survivor, but all I hear people say is "you win some you lose some" and that I need to play as a team-player, but the game currently cripples your ability to play co-ordinated.
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You are totally right atm it's ######### it's a team game somehow and not a team game at the same time. Bhvr need to sit down and either make it an actual team so you have the weapons of a team and can communicate one way or another and organize or they make it a true 1v1v1v1v1 and give the survivor weapons to win cause they individually played good and change the game to accommodate to that so the killer has a chance to fight that fight 4 times
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To be fair you can already do this with sole survivor + wake up combo so
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Well I don't see anyone complaining about Sole survivor and wake up..
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Hatch should be a last resort... and it is
Survivor is 3rd person while Killer is 1st person... so the Survivor has an advantage in that case... But the killer is faster so they have an advantage... so that point is moot
If they had to change the hatch IDK what they'd do
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Ok, a few points: first, I was referring to what would happen with your "exit gates get instant 50%" suggestion. Yes, in that situation, you would get away for free in almost every situation. The huge majority of killers has no way of reaching an exit gate from a hatch in less than 10 seconds, unless it spawns right in front of one.
Second, that can already happen today. Okay, maybe you never saw it happen like that, but I did and I escaped like that more than once. There are also perks that make it easier if it's bothering you so much.
Third: yes, keys aren't an easy escape anymore, which is good. You suggested yourself the key should spawn in the map for a "solution". Well, if you really believe keys would make your life easier in that situation, just bring them yourself. There's no need for a free key to spawn in a map.
Fourth: team games are aways like that. If the team is not that good, you go down with them. Still, DbD gives you a CHANCE of escaping against a killer that already won by beating everyone together. Again, a CHANCE, not an advantage, you're not supposed to get that.
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And that doesn't need to become basekit at all. Today you can do it if you give away 2 of your perk slots for that, a reason people don't use those perks often, and it should remain that way. If survivors had that benefit every match, it would be almost always impossible to stop a survivor from opening exit gates after closing the hatch.
Also, the combo increases the opening speed by 75%, not by 100%, which would be the equivalent of OP's suggestion.
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Thats the thing, you can either front load your perk selection, heling you with doing gens and survivor during the bulk of the trial (Proof, DH or other exhaustion perks, Hyperfocus, Windows etc) or backload, in order to secure an escape (Hope, Adrenalin, Wake Up, Sole Survivor) or something in between.
You shouldn't have to hold your cake and also eat it. THIS is what all the calls for basekit changes lead to: if an aspect is important enough for you that you would want to have it as basekit, well, then pay the perk tax for that and adjust your loadout. Some killers have a permanent Lightborn slotted in, even when no one survivor wields a flashy in the lobby. And if you really hate the hopelessness during the Hatch standoff, well, maybe make room for Wake Up, Undercover or something else that helps you in this situations. But everytime something is made basekit, it incentivises the players to not deviate from their meta, because they can play meta and still benefit from the now basekit perk.
The hatch is often missunderstood, just like the EGC, its not there to give one side a better chance at winning, to help them or whatever, but to put a timer on the game, with the hatch having the explicit addage that it indeed is there to give the last survivor some hope in an otherwise hopeless situation (3 gens left).
Right now the hatch spawns invisibly when the map is generated, but its still there and you can sometimes notice it when your character walks over it and jumps up a bit. This is bogus. Here is one change that I would propose to the hatch: when the 3rd survivor dies ONLY then the hatch spawns into the world, and it does so either equidistant between the killer and survivor or at least 40/60% between the two, somewhat randomized. This way no one can know where the hatch spawns beforehand and you won't have situations where the hatch opens right next to some player, who instantly jumps into/closes it, but you would always have a somewhat 50/50 chance for either side to make the race to the hatch.
I also like the UB base kit if the killer sluggs for the 4k, like someone suggested earlier. Maybe in the same vein we could add an "angry entity crows" meter to survivors who don't touch for 3min, that slowly degrades when you work at a gen, preventing 20min stealthing matches with 2 survivors left. Both, 20min stealthing matches and slugging for the 4k are rather unfun playstyles and I think this changes could help to make this situations more fun and engaging.
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I've spectated hundreds of last survivors in this game and it feels like half the people who play don't even know what the hatch is. Also these are just suggestions and the 50% idea doesn't have to go without conditions. For example, door progress can be based upon how many generators were (or weren't) completed and how quickly the other 3 survivors were eliminated. In that case, you wouldn't always get 50%, but the idea would be to balance out the situation for the last survivor instead of it always being a static situation regardless of what happened during the match.
Having it always come down to a hatch chase will always favor the killer given the speed difference. The rest is up to RNG which factors in nothing from the match other than a hatch offering. Survivors run out of things to work with far too quickly and too often am I left feeling like I'm being punished for the failure of my team.
Exactly!
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Yes, a hatch search always favors the killer, but why should't it? They killed off three survivors at this point and played better, yet you still got a decent chance of escaping.
In the same vein, a camped hook during the EGC with all 4 survivors alive massively favors the survivors. Unless they severely missplay or some instadown mechanic is in play its nearly a guranteed 4E .. and why shouldn't it? They obviously played better by getting here with all four alive and kicking. Actually, a point could be made to also give the killer a small hope mechanic in such a situation, like a 4% chance to instadown a healthy survivor, mirroring the chance to unhook yourself ... buuuuuut lets not venture down that road for now and focus on hatch :)
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The hatch is not meant to be a reliable way of escaping. Being the last survivor is meant to be a losing position.
The hatch and exit gates in the 1v1 is fine.
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Hatch is fine the way it is imo, I would make it automatically close after 60 seconds to prevent stalemates.
The automatic Mori system would also be a good thing in the last survivor scenario, so you can't get bled out/killer waiting for you to 99% the gate but then hit you, etc etc. Lots of room for BM. Having the last survivor get mori'd immediately after getting downed would help a ton against this.
I'd also remove collision between the last survivor and the killer so you can't have weird stalemates, or block them in, but having a 60 second autoclose on hatch would prevent this anyway.
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Yeah, it feels they are half-hearted about what they want the game to be, so it's pulled in different directions. They are trying to accommodate both competitive and casual people, and I understand competitive can become stale. Like I'd seriously hate it if to be able to stand a chance to win at all I'd have to be running a gen build, that's so boring. When I'm just trying to have fun I run a full blind build like Blastmine, Flashbang and for when Flashbangs are out, Residual Manifest, coupled with dead hard. But I'm still quite bad with it and as I play on controller, flashlights are pretty awkward for me🤣 But I would like to get better at it and I would like for it to be viable, but it's harder to pull threw and you kinda need to manage your flashbangs since they don't stack, maybe playing it with a SWF would be easier to pull because of co-ordination and all.
If I am trying to escape or pip I go with something a lot safer for solo survivor like DH, Distortion, Clairvoyance (also great for finding chests) and Resilience. Could probably swap Resilience for unbreakable for those times killer slugs for the 4k. Obviously if I had more co-ordination I could probably run a lot more team-oriented perks? Although Distortion can work pretty well in a team if you have communication.
Probably having a ranked (sweaty) mode and a casual mode would do this game a lot of favors, but I'm not sure it has the numbers to support that player divide.
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The killer has already won and the hatch is just a way for the final surv to have a chance at escaping. It should favour the killer because of this as the killer however he got there is in a scenario where he managed to kill the other 3. The new system is much healthier for the game than the old since hatch stand offs were so boring.
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I don't really agree with this from several perspectives.
I do not believe that failure to complete the objective and the loss of an additional means of escape should guarantee an easier and more definitive escape.
The hatch spawn is random and therefore fair. Once the hatch is closed, the killer will be alerted to the gate, so the key is viable as well.
It doesn't matter how well you played; the cruel reality that the MMR system confronts is that you and your allies who played less well rate about the same.
In fact, even in the current situation, a gate win after the hatches are closed is viable. (Although there is an aspect that some killers are better at gate wins.)
Adjust the gate open gauge until just before the first light comes on. You can open the gate again when you see a gap in the killer's round trip to and from the gate. Not a few games allow you to escape from the gate this way. All I can say is that it is not impossible.
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I hope not. Otherwise people will be even more selfish and useless when they play alone (yes I am not talking about you hyper performance/altruistic op soloq :') the average of people waiting for hatch is a disgrace!!)
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Lmao no, hatch is already good enough, no one deserves free escapes
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It isn't a free escape just because you think its one. A "free escape" would mean the killer gives up, does nothing, and allows the survivor to escape through either the hatch or door. If you don't realize that then you're already not putting much thought into this. The whole point of this post is about fairness and balance. If you want to talk about who deserves what then I can argue the killer doesn't deserve the 4k because the 3k was handed to them and the last survivor actually tried to play the game. Throwing the last survivor into a static situation regardless of match outcome is not fair. A race to the hatch is never fair. Its entirely RNG and unless it spawns near you then you're probably going to die. Your efforts during the match should benefit you in some way if you're the last survivor. All the killer has to do with the last survivor after the hatch is closed is find them. Once that happens you're not opening the door. So if the hatch spawns 10 feet away from the killer, how is that fair? It isn't and that is the point of this post. It also wouldn't be fair for it to spawn 10 feet from the survivor at the end. So in my opinion the last survivor situation needs to change. The race to the hatch is annoying and stressful. If you don't find it within a few seconds you're probably not going to find it first. RNG shouldn't be a deciding factor for the last survivor.
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Much as I wouldn't mind the idea of a chance for a key to spawn during EGC in a chest, even at a reduced odds, it is something that goes against the concept of hatch in general. It should be seen as your last hope of escaping in a last ditch effort and would add frustration to both sides. Killers obviously would have to keep patrol of the gates and wherever the hatch spawns. Survivors, while they would have another option at their disposal to escape, would be wandering aimlessly trying to loot chests for said key, and may be found before they can even get to the hatch with it.
Best change would be if they would just spawn hatch at a neutral area vs in close range to the killer/survivor so that both sides have an equal shot at searching for it.
Otherwise, all you can really do is manipulate your odds of being able to find/get to the hatch. I run Clairvoyance along with other totem perks like Inner Healing and Overzealous so I can scout for where it spawns if I end up being the last man alive; it also has a lot more usage early/mid game compared to Left Behind (along with the bigger range of aura reading). If you want to get out via a key but don't want to bring one in, go for a Plunderer's + Appraisal build. You can store the key in a safe spot and can hope to come back to it when your team starts to drop.
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The hatch is often missunderstood, just like the EGC, its not there to give one side a better chance at winning, to help them or whatever, but to put a timer on the game, with the hatch having the explicit addage that it indeed is there to give the last survivor some hope in an otherwise hopeless situation (3 gens left etc).
Right now the hatch spawns invisibly when the map is generated, but its still there and you can sometimes notice it when your character walks over it and bumps up a bit. This is bogus. Here is one change that I would propose to the hatch: when the 3rd survivor dies ONLY then the hatch spawns into the world, and it does so either equidistant between the killer and survivor or at least 40/60% between the two, somewhat randomized. This way no one can know where the hatch spawns beforehand and you won't have situations where the hatch opens right next to some player, who instantly jumps into/closes it, but you would always have a somewhat 50/50 chance for either side to make the race to the hatch. The killer still has a slight advantage in this scenario due to his speed, but thats ok, they managed to kill 3 survivors off. A case could be made that Hope might activate during the hatch race, as its already in the name and this perk hasn't been touched since forever.
I also like the UB base kit if the killer sluggs for the 4k, like someone suggested earlier, ie in a two survivor situation, if the killer doesn't pick a downed survivor up, after 45s or so they can do so themselves. This way leaving a slug is risky and incentivises a killer to just be content with a 3k and not slowing the game down further. Maybe in the same vein we could add an "angry entity crows" meter to survivors who don't touch for 3min, that slowly degrades when you work at a gen, preventing 20min stealthing matches with 2 survivors left. Both, 20min stealthing matches and slugging for the 4k are rather unfun playstyles and I think this changes could help to make this situations more fun and engaging.
(copy pasta from earlier in this thread because peeps seemed to have been occupied with another discussion and I wanna stir it back to this idea)
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"Closing the hatch should power gates to 50%"
That's what Sole Survivor and Wake Up are for. If this was 'basekit', there would be no point in going for the hatch as a survivor, which in turn would mean there's no point in closing the hatch as killer, because it would be a guaranteed gate escape. So killers would just camp the hatch and give the survivor no choice.
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Several perks are only useful in certain situations. We can't tell what the outcome of any given match will be so planning around a "what if" situation is impossible. Yea I could play those perks more often, and I probably will now, but locking my build behind "what if" situations gets stale. Closing the hatch should have some kind of effect on the exit gates. As I said in another reply, it can be conditional and the progress can be determined by several factors from the match. These are just ideas and I'd be curious to see other ideas for this also.
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Almost all perks are like that.
DS, Unbreakable, Deliverance, Head On, etc. All require the correct circumstance to use.
Luckily Sole Survivor comes with aura protection too, so it's not necessarily wasted if you don't get to open the exit.
Why should closing the hatch affect exit gates more than it already does? (It powers them)
If you have to find the hatch, you've already lost as a survivor, unless you've already powered the exits anyway. The Hatch is a commiseration prize.
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If you’re trying to get hatch after your team has died or trying to get a gate after the killer has closed the hatch, you’ve already lost. These mechanics exist as a way to allow the game to end, because they do give the survivor an opportunity to escape. If it wasn’t there, there’d be no incentive for the last survivor not to just hide somewhere for an eternity, as often happens with 2 survivors left in a hopeless scenario for them. But these mechanics are not meant to be in the survivor’s favor.
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I wonder why its always refered to as hopels situation when its obvious that both remaining survivors have the same plan:
"Eff gens and the other guy, they suck and i gonna get the easy hatch escape"
They could continue doing gens or help the other guy when slugged for the 4k. But theyre doing the easier thing, wait till the other gets taken out and hop in.
Funny aint it? Survivor allowed to do the easy, more efficient selfish plays but killers are tryhards for camping....
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Just because you are last one to be alive doesnt mean you should get an easy escape. Many times when i close the hatch survivor still gets the door since the RNG gods gave me doors that are impossible to patrol.
Also door gives MMR hatch doesnt so i rather the last survivor gets the hatch. Quite often the last survivor has been someone whos been hiding or running the killer into other survivors. ( Happens in my soloQ all the time) .
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I've had gate opened countless times after killer closed hatch and gates had decent distance between them,, yes hatch is rng so both parties have a decent chance to find it first, if you really wanna have better chances for a free escape through hatch start bringing perks or items to find it first,, and no matter what you say hatch is a free escape for the person that takes it,, either your team ( playing survivor means playing as a team and sometimes your team isnt thst good) failed to open gates or you just happened to find hatch before reaching an open gate,
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Those are actually perks that take from a survivors load out having those two probably means less chances for survivors running an extra adrenaline /hope/otr/circle,, also sole survivor is a horrible perk that is useful after ur teams dead and promotes selfish /immersed game play even more,, I'd say it benefits killer more in the long run
Post edited by Entitled_survivor on0 -
Except with Sole Survivor, your chances of being the Obsession are considerably higher than others getting it and most of the time, the killer will often tunnel the Obsession out of the game just because they're worth more points. I know because I've done this before and have stopped using it because I've had this happen to me way too often so I don't use it anymore. To me, it's similar to the Deliverance "curse".
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I'm specifically referring to the final survivor situation. I have many matches where I try to do everything for the best possible outcome but my team is nowhere near on the same page as me and then I get left with the burden of RNG hatch.
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