Can we do something about med kits?

I know the feeling I've been running franklins in the majority of my games lately just to keep up

It's become the rule and not the exception like it used to be

You say that like me being able to heal myself at full speed 3 times isn’t a big deal, when it absolutely is a big deal. Medkits are too quick for self-healing and the better ones also have too many charges.

And MDR, tombstone piece, and several other OP killer addons are overpowered and need changes regardless of medkits. That has nothing to do with it.

That doesn’t make any sense.

The problem is, while I agree they are too good for self-heals, there also isn’t enough incentive to use them on a teammate. I can either have it to heal myself with half the normal input required (1 survivor spending 16s instead of 2), or I can heal my teammate anywhere between 3 to 5 seconds quicker depending on the medkit’s rarity. It’s pretty obvious which option I’m going to choose 99% of the time. The only time I’d ever use a medkit on a teammate is to try and pick them up faster from the ground or if the killer is trying to tunnel them and those few seconds might make a difference.

3 full self-heals is more than enough for a full match, especially at +50% speed, or god forbid +150% because you brought Botany and some other guy brought Circle.

If you’re operating at any level of gen efficiency whatsoever, 1 self heal at full speed or faster should be enough. If 3 full heals “isn’t enough” for you, then you’re playing against a killer you shouldn’t be healing against anyways.

Medkits have already been nerfed in the past and severely at that. I understand that you want easy downs and easy matches with all survivors injured all the time, but that would only benefit you and not give any good experience to the other 4 players in your matches. There is nothing more boring than sitting on a healing action for 2 min, just like gens are annoying to sit on.

Given that as a killer you have powers, add-ons and perks that can guarantee instadowns, medkits are fine as they are. If you have a problem with survivors healing or having 2 health states, bring instadown perks. There are plenty of them instead of Franklin's

It'd be too easy for you to deny survivors med kits or the option of heal and killers have already received more than enough buffs.

If you can't put pressure because survivors are healing themselves, medkits are not your problem. If your chases are long, you're not doing it right. If you're camping or tunneling instead of pressuring gens and other survivors, you're not doing it right.

I dont screenshot all my matches, but here is an example of how medkits didnt make a difference. The only item that would make me bring Franklin's is flashlights, but only on Hag since they destroy her power completely and render a slow M1 killer. Killers that excel at being killers won't have an issue with medkits or healing. Genrush maybe, but not healing specifically. In fact, healing keeps survivors off gens. You want them to heal, heal as much and as often as possible, so they are not on the gens.

Your chases should not last more than a few seconds and if they do, that's your cue to leave that survivor and find someone else unless you're sure you will get a down with a few extra seconds of chase.

In your position, I would consider, what I can do to put more pressure.How can I better myself as killer? What add-ons or perks I can try to benefit me better?

And yes I do run an insta down perk, they're fantastic. Make your choice makes a lot of survivors go in hiding and not do gens for the fear that I will come and one shot em.

talking about not playing the game well and learning to play the game first

Pretty sure even the best medkits only have two heals in them, regardless of speed.

Now the Syringe however is a bit of an issue, and I think it should be treated the same way as BNPs are. You get a skill check and if you make it you instantly recover 50% of your health, not 100%.

That said, I second instadowns. I pretty much exclusively play Ghostface and Make-Your-Choice Dredge these days outside of dailies and challenges, and it's so satisfying getting a down on someone who just finished healing.

So render it completely useless?

You'd see the problem comparing survivor items been equivalent to killer power. Your saying survivor's items is like them having a killer power which would put them on the same footing as the killer in a 4v1. Having something that allows one of the 4 to be equal with the one is way off balance. Killer's have powers because they have to compete with 4 survivor's there Powe helps level the playing field and your saying that items are equal to killer powers which would throw the balance off completely if just one person bring it and you have the capability for all 4 to bring it and that's exactly why it throws the game out of balance.

My man survivors got med kits and toolboxes that's it the rest are bad. Now you want to take away 50% of that?

Are you trying to say that having an item that can heal me 3x is the same as having the ability to dash at more then 4x the survivor speed, going thru the walls and use that 2x AND THEN IT RECHARGES? Same strength? Really? Ok. Give me 1x half a nurse blink that recharges then please - it's 1/4 of killer so it should not be a problem to have item that gives me permanently just this. Or maybe in fact survivor items are MUCH worse then killer powers.

Medkits need Self-Healing speed or charge nerfs.

Toolboxes should focus more on Sabo plays and passive augments on Gen Skillchecks than pure genspeed.

Maps should focus more on Survivor/Killer Aura reading (but Root the Survivor).

Keys need a rework entirely. (I'd like to see them work for passing through vaults/Pallets/Breakable Walls instantly with addons that allow you to goblin Items from chests)

6 full self heals at double speed is something you should absolutely have to dedicate an entire build for. Being able to do that and still having 2 entire perk slots for more meta perks like Sprint Burst, Unbreakable, Circle of Healing (which makes this build even stronger), Stake Out + Hyperfocus, etc. is, frankly, disgustingly strong. Hell, you could always just replace Botany with Circle to get the same +50% effect without the efficiency penalty to get even MORE self-heals on top of all the team-wide bonuses that come with Circle of Healing

Almost all of those scenarios you described are either simply too uncommon to render this build weak or even begin to counter it, or are simply a matter of grave, GRAVE user error.

Antiheal builds are borderline useless when your healing speeds are this fast and should only be a problem if you’re trying that dumb strat of healing mid-chase. Franklin’s is Franklin’s so it sucks, you have 90 seconds to go pick up your item and even if it is completely drained you can just rebuild it with BtL. If you are spending that much time booning totems or running around looking for boon spots that it truly detracts from you doing gens then you are simply very bad with boons and really need to work on your game sense. Plague is fair but this build is monstrous against the other 29 or so killers in the game bar Legion because he’s Legion so I hardly think 2 killers out of like 30 is a strong argument. Your exhaustion perk argument is patently false because we’ve already been over how this build only requires at the very most 2 perks to be extremely good. If the killer is focusing you so incredibly hard that you don’t get to heal then as we’ve been over you can bring Sprint Burst or any other exhaustion perk with no real cost to your build so you should be looping them and wasting their time just fine.

Your proposed scenarios are incredibly situational at best and/or are your fault for lacking the game sense of when and where to use your medkit.

No killer power makes the killer move at 400% ms. Besides that you said that items are survivors versions of killer powers with no other context I'm just going off what you said.

It's sounds like you don't understand how building pressure on killer works. See if you injure a survivor w/o a med kit for them to get healed someone has to get off a gen to heal said survivor that brings survivor efficiency down to 50% on gens(assuming your not in chase) or that survivor has to risk not healing a been a one shot which is a huge difference in time sink then a killer hitting a healthy survivor and then having to chase them down and do the looping thing. With a med kit a survivor can heal themselves making it 75% survivor efficiency on gens then you can take that and the whole team can have med kits meaning survivors never have to have someone get off gens to get the heal. You can also make it to were the survivors can repeatedly heal themselves in under 16 seconds meaning you don't even know if the survivor will take 16 seconds to heal themselves or 6. A survivor been able to heal themselves is a huge advantage because it allows you to deny the killer the ability to build pressure by injuring survivors its part of the reason tunneling has increased if an injured survivor can heal themselves in 16 seconds and not bring anyone else off gens to build pressure why not just take out the injured survivor forcing the survivors off Gens for the rescue? Limiting the killers options to build pressure is never a good thing and normally only leads to killers playing in ways survivors don't like to continue to build pressure.

Oh boy, now we’re arguing use rates. How to truly tell when someone doesn’t actually have an argument.

The correlation between stats and actual strength are not nearly a be-all-end-all level of substantial. Twins is the single least played killer in the entire game by a huge degree but that doesn’t change the fact that they are very, very strong. That’s just one example; if you want, I can go find more.

If anything, I think the fact that Windows of Opportunity—a perk literally designed to be a pair of training wheels—is one of the most used perks according to your stat machine speaks volumes about how a playerbase as uninventive and imperceptive as DBD’s would fail to make value out of strong builds that require even basic smarts.

If something is obviously powerful, then it would be used. Instead we see the exact opposite. Especially in higher MMR's there's more focus on chase or genrush or tunnel/camp protection then on heal. That should also indicate something ;)

Another thing - WoO is not used by beginners only. It's used also by very skilled solo players. The intend for usage is just different. The idea is to know which part of map is already exhausted by some other player. So it's bad example from your side, because you outright dismissed usage if this perk for people that are NOT new to the game.

“High MMR” is a fairy tale. The MMR system does not measure nor indicate skill in any meaningful way. There are players at high MMR that are literally new to the game. MMR is a non-argument.

Anyone actually worth their salt will tell you just how strong medkits are. Sure, something that is obviously strong will be popular—key word obviously; just because people are somehow oblivious to how strong medkits and healing perks are does not change how strong they are. I guess if we’re going off use rate alone, then Wesker is the strongest killer in the game.

Your WoO argument makes no sense on so many levels, but I’ll boil it down like this: Do you really think perk popularity among these “high skill solo players” who rely on a training wheels perk to tell them what using your eyeballs to look at the screen should already be telling you are a good metric for what is and isn’t good in this game?

Of course you think Keys are weak with that change

Keys are the Aura reading (on Killers and Survivors) not just to open hatch

Maps are for static stuff (like Gens, Totems and Chests)

While thinking about it no Medkits don't need to be changed... neither do Toolboxes

Survivors have their own set of "powers" that they can use... why take them away from them

Simply remove ability to self heal (maybe give this to an addon or leave it for very rare med kit at cost of stats)

and buff team heal with it like maybe when being healed by other survivour press button to increase speed of that heal consuming durability equivalent to heal progress

Cause there would be no use for them... hence why they made Keys have Survivor and Killer aura reading and Maps provide Gen, Totem and Chest aura reading

That's something that BHVR has done so I can't say much

In theory it has been... seeing how Hatch only spawns when there's only one Survivor left

But the same thing exists for Maps, Keys and Toolboxes

It would be nice to see more Items some into the game

Considering they said that being able to heal yourself at will with very little cost is OP, it is a contradiction. Yeah, just like toolboxes were nerfed sometime ago something has to be done with medkits and COH.