You know what? I am starting to think the game would actually be better if some maps were removed.
First let me start by saying that, no, I don't really want maps and other forms of content removed from the game. Usually I roll my eyes when I see a "delete this, delete that" thread. My point on this one, however, is that map reworks are not solving most problems with the game's map design. And between trading a poorly designed and unbalanced map for another poorly designed map, honestly, in some cases it would unfortunately have been better for game health and balance if the map had been just removed. I don't really want this to happen (uh... unless maybe with Shelter Woods and Rotten Fields, just because they are huge bland and featureless maps that add nothing interesting to the game), but I think the direction map reworks are going need to change if we hope for ever see some actual map balance in DbD.
While some map reworks in the past have really made a big difference on making them feel more balanced (Autohaven and Ormond are the best examples I can remember... but even then, Gas Haven exists and Ormond still has a terrible gen spread), at some point the map reworks started creating issues instead of just fixing them. Even among the first map reworks, some of them didn't make much of a difference (MacMillan is an example of that. The map overhaul that happened BEFORE the reworks had more impact than the rework itself. Shelter Woods is still hugely killer-sided, Groaning Storehouse is still extremely survivor-sided and was arguably made worse by the breakable wall).
But when we talk about the latest map reworks... oh boy. They either fix some issues and add other new ones in return (Crotus Prenn Asylum), make the map EVEN WORSE than before (The Game, Fractured Cowshed, Thompsons house) or, in the best case scenario, make changes that make the map better, but still really bad, just not as abysmal as the original design. Haddonfield is better than the original, but still feels awful for M1 killers. RPD has better navigation now and there are no infinites anymore, but still has issues like the new variations that make learning the map more confusing and gens that are harder to defend due to visibility.
It also doesn't help that recent map changes are adding more god pallets and decreasing the number of hooks in the maps. Seriously, Thompson's House used to always have a hook at the second floor, but now that hook doesn't spawn there most of the time and sometimes the killer is forced to slug there because of it, even with the new openings in the walls.
TL;DR: Map reworks got worse over the years, they either don't fix the issues in map design or just trade them for new ones. Some reworks have made maps even worse than before. They must be taken towards a new direction if we want to ever see map balance.
Comments
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RPD
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In other news, breathing air helps you live.
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I'd pay for this game to only have a rotation of MacMillian/Autohaven/Coldwind minus Cowshed.
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Your undying love for this map is well known to us all. The split didn't solve everything did it? ;)
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Despite maps having 'issues' I still do well on those maps, so I would not want them gone.
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The cornfield maps can go right to the firey pits. Corn blindness is real people!
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Uniquity is what makes this game enjoyable.
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The split made it more likely to get.
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I'd love new maps if they were fun to play on. If the uniquity this game offers is trash like RPD, Haddonfield, Badham, Eyrie and Garden of Joy I'd gladly take only 10 maps to play on. Most multiplayers don't even have that many maps anyway.
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First let me start by saying that, no, I don't really want maps and other forms of content removed from the game.
I do and im not ashamed in the slightest, please remove Mothers Dwelling, Lerys, The Game, Midwich, RPD, Ormond, Shelter Woods and Eyrie of Crows.
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Agree with all, except shelter woods. That map is an easy fix of just adding a few more pallets.
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It needs more than pallets. It needs more T and L walls, good vaults, and pallets. It could probably use some sort of better main building structure as well.
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The only maps i dislike are Glenvale's Dead Dawg for how tiny it is, and the swamp
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Funny how you say that yet DBD has some of the most samey gameplay loops from match to match I think I've ever seen.
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yeah the killer sided maps over and over again with the potential exception of farm maps, survivors want their fun too
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???
Blood Lodge, Ironworks, Suffocation Pit, Groaning Storehouse, Gas Heaven and Wretched Shop are all generally really good Survivor maps
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I think it's only within the past couple of years that "killer-sided" maps even became a prevalent thing; the closest we'd had up until like post-rework Shelter Woods were maps that sorta-kinda-maybe didn't favor survivors all that much—and by "maps" I mean one map, pre-rework Chapel.
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Honestly I'd like more maps since I really love all the lore and design that goes behind them and representing their respective areas, but truthfully they're just hard to balance in a way where both sides feel they're fair. Ya never want dead ends, but ya also don't want so many pallets to the point where you're drownin' in em'. Oh well, the maps look pretty to me anyways
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Having even less variety of maps for the game to ignore and just put me on macmillan or breakers yard realms endlessly? No thanks.
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The multiple versions of Springfield did not make that map more likely so I wonder if this is just the new map priority.
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If you think MacMillian and Autohaven are killer sided you should consider improving your survivor skills.
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Absolutely ######### removing maps. This game is samey enough as it is. We need more realms not less.
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some are killer sided and others balanced, none of them are survivor sided with t he exception of groaning house. the others or are small or easy to 3 gen so why dont u try again? why do killers always bring Mac millan and azarov offerings? Exactly i responded it for you.
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You....think GAS HEAVEN is Killer-sided?
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I would pay for them to reduce the amount of corn and remove or at least weaken the Cow Tree and the Harvester. Just too damn strong, and why so many variants of the Coldwind map?
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But, pallets are a healthy part of a killer's diet! Gotta get that extra fibre somehow.
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Or maybe not, The Game, Lerys, Midwich and RPD are my favorite maps as killer, as well as survivor! I just like indoor maps (ok, maybe thats about my colorblindness where the colorfilters dont help that much), but i think my needs need to be considered the same way as yours.
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Not removed, but overhauled and made more dynamic.
(Okay, badham needs to be cuts down to one map, why the hell does it still have 5 near identical iterations ?)
Dynamic in the sense that maps adjust slightly to killers and their build.
For example:
If you play a killer with great map mobility AND a strong gen control build, the map could get a bit larger, with more hiding and cover spots (cover spots as in survs can spot you while working on a gen well, but you don't have a clear line of attack) and easier to find totems etc.
While if you have low map mobility and barely any gen control, the map could get smaller.
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I see way more survivors bring MacMillan and Azarov offerings than killers do. The only killers I ever see bring those offerings are sweaty Nurses.
If a killer is using an offering it is almost always Dead Dawg or Midwich.
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not just nurses. Blights really love these realms. Spirits are not opposed to them too. But I generally see the offering on most killers anyway.
Also I would trade having dead dawg any day to even get a chance for shelter woods.
Blood lodge has very low loops - getting any ranged killer (like huntress) is very punishing. Getting slow M1 killer is rewarding. But if the killer has at least mobility, then it's getting damn hard on this map as it's very hard to hide (meaning tunneling is very easy).
Ironworks is very tiny and usually (even if not always) spawn strong 3gen that is easy to defend
Suffocation pit has a split - really strong mid for survivors, but really strong sides for killer - and by strong sides I specifically mean 3gens that are super easy to defend in this gen-kicking meta.
Wretched shop - very low density of loops. Main is rather weak, mid (part of map between shack and main) is very open and contains very little stuff.
These maps are by no means "survivor sided". At best I would consider them even. And I am already very generous.
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I see way more survivors bringing Autohaven/MacMillian than I see killers. The only killers I see bringing those offerings are the killers that get screwed in indoor maps like Blight and Billy.
But if you want it: Groaning Storehouse, Suffocation Pit, Blood Lodge and Gas Heaven are all survivor sided.
The only killer sided maps in these realms are Shelter Woods and Azarov's Resting Place. Everything else is balanced or it just slightly tilts to the other side.
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Blood lodge is good? I hate playing there, it always feelt like a giant deadzone
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It's not Eyrie of Crows or Cowshed, but it has a good density of loops.
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As much as I hate playing certain killers on rpd, it does add to the overall experience of the game. Same reason I hate that survivors can't spam their flashlights anymore. There are some things in the game that I hate, but sometimes it adds an extra challenge or sometimes you learn something new. Also it's very satisfying to get a 4k after they've been clicking they're flashlights the whole game but I guess I won't get that anymore.
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Maps add a huge variety to the game, and lessen the boredom potential. Removing maps would be a huge mistake, in my opinion. Removing maps offerings would be a huge mistake as well, in my opinion. Map offerings allow for a fresh match after 3 macmillans in a row.
What does need to urgently happen though is the balancing of the maps. Modify maps so that they not give a huge advantage to one side. So that they have approximately an equal potential to be fun and fine for both sides.
Variety makes the game thrive. Imbalance makes the game suffer.
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