The problem is not The Nurse
It's the lack of proper structure to run her on most maps.
The best places to have a chance against Nurse are dense HIGH LOS blockers (trees, walls etc.) with just enough length that a lunge can't reach around but you, as a survivor, can juke around it and gain distance.
BUT, the newer maps are more or less wide fields in the middle, where you can only hide by crouching or standing still as a survivor. It allows for a better chance for the Killer to find survivors as he navigates the map. Even if the phenomenon is enhanced nowadays, DbD has always features pallet heavy but easier to patrol middle. It's easier to find survivors, but there is more protection to use : risk & reward
IN EXCHANGE, the border of the map was less pallet dense and there were many rocks, trees and wood structures. If the Killer found you there, you were in trouble, but you had plenty of hiding spots to discourage a meticulous search : risk & reward.
NOWADAYS, devs have rendered the map boarders mainly useless. There are still some hiding places that kinda works to discourage a chase (because who spend 30 seconds to check behind 5 rocks when one can go back to the middle gens where most of the team will be), but not enough to juke projectiles or blinks.
SO, by keeping a low number of hiding spot at those places, you prevent interesting stealth gameplay - just wait behind that one rock at the edge of the map where the Killer will never check - and counterplay to chase powers - just run and hold W anytime you can. No interesting play by sneaking behind the killer while he looks around the gen, no zigzag across a Z wall, a tree and a rock to get a +1 wood from the Nurse, just RUN the hell out there kid because you're 6 seconds away to say : Hello Mr Floor.
ANYTIME, I get that one lucky draw where you have the good trees to dodge those perfect hatchet throws, those small rocks and huge trees to make that Nurse guess, for once. It just makes so much difference in terms of gameplay. No more "just run back and forth and pray he's feeling impatient". It's even worse when you have add-ons that allow for quick recover of chase powers, where you end up to juke the power 2-3 time before the first stack of usable obstacles.
TLDR : GIVE US SOME TREES, GUYS, HUMANITY NEEDS TO BREATHE.
Comments
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No. Nurse is problem everywhere but lery's. But lery's is problem on it's own
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You : "HUMANITY NEEDS TO BREATHE"
The Nurses : "Breathe ? Hold my beer." 🤣
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Oh, no! You can't say that nursing is a problem everywhere! Don't become like all those people whose only arguments are to make overgeneralizations in order to appear convincing! 😣
However, the issue of LOS RNG is super complex.
I had pointed this out elsewhere, but so much Lery, for a nurse is .... too much. Just too much. Too many walls, too many angles, too big a map, help, help.
On other maps, it seems infinitely complicated to calculate their "efficiency" in terms of LOS : it depends on so many parameters : how does the nurse play ? How do the survivors play ? Do they know how to play a nurse ? Can they play with bluffing? The double bluff? The triple bluff? Etc.
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Even with all that, the problem is still Nurse. All this does is increase the initial skillfloor of Nurse, but it doesnt lower the skill ceiling. She literally has the power to blink on top of a survivor, no matter in what position they are, and hit them and there is nothing they can do about that. Even if a survivor stands in a pallet and is capable of dropping it, Nurse can register a hit on them before they are able to stun her. You would need an absolute frame perfect pallet drop to have a chance at the hit to miss. And yes, I say chance, because the server could still decide that you were within region of recieving damage.
Personally, I rather have her skillfloor reduced a little bit so it doesnt take 50 hours to play her decently, while lowering her skill ceiling too.
Then you have the matter of fact that Nurse can also change the distance of her blink if she looks up or down. Which isnt a bad thing, but it does remove even more counterplay. Huntress has a similar thing, but you have a LOT of time to react to a hatchet that has a sudden change in arc. Not to even take into comparison that Huntress hatchets are considered M2's. Imagine if her hatchets counted as M1's, imagine how busted certain perks on her would be. That is what Nurse is.
So while I agree LOS would help a little bit, it doesnt help with perks like Noed, Haunted Grounds, Devour Hope, Starstruck, Make Your Choice, Hubris, Rancor and even Iron Maiden(one of the ways to avoid a Nurse hit is jumping in a nearby locker untill she goes into fatique, Iron Maiden makes that a horrible choice). Then you have Coup de Grace(reduced in lunge range due to Nurse), Awakened Awareness(removed the time to see aura's because of Starstruck on Nurse), Dead Mans Switch(both Nurse and Blight in this case, but DMS would have been fine for most killers), Ruin(again, also Blight), Gearhead(changed to 2 basic attacks from the PTB, because of Nurse, the only killer where this perk would actually be oppressive on), Pain Res(again, both Blight and Nurse were mainly the culprits, for most other killers, the old effect would have been fine), Corrupt Intervention(while a really good overall change, its mainly because of Nurse that it needed a deactivation after the first down). All these perks that are now below mediocre, because of how effective they are on Nurse(and sometimes Blight). Its perk changes like this that make me think how many other perks were designed sub-par, simply because Nurse exists.
So yeah, Nurse is the problem. And the main way to solve half the problems around her is turning her post-blink attack into an M2. This would also give Spasmodic Breath some genuine use other than just being a bit of a meme(and could actually be buffed to be 120% IMO)
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Agreed on all accounts. Also even if I loved to play double meme nurse, spasmodic breath was too much for me. Making it 120% sounds like actually very good idea
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Lery's is actually my favourite map to play Nurse on. But that is maybe because I kinda memorized the layout of that map through vault master myer builds. Indoor maps have the most static layouts of them all to the point where Lery's is 99% predictable in layout. Its the most static map that isnt licensed.
A huge trick for Nurse on that map is that she can pretty much instablink through walls because they are thin enough to do so. Once you can basically travel blindly to push survivors into corners, all you have to do is rely on survivor noises. I am almost willing to bet that all Nurse needs is Stridor on Lery's and there is practically nothing survivors can do unless they have comms.
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the dev are shrinking borders because killer are complaining that the map is too big so they'd shrink a map from 172 sqrt2 to 160 sqrt2 by shrinking borders which changes nothing because most of complaints about big maps is related to generator patrol routes and holding-w before the chase. Changing bordering is not changing the problem. its amplifying it further since your weakening stealth and creates more incentive to do that gameplay.
Nurse's gameplay requires that every map be like Lery or RPD where 80% of the map is just filled with objects and confusing line of sight blockers but most maps are wide open. It is like that so that nurse has to guess where she blinks more so then know where to blink every time. The problem with that is that adding a lot of line of sight blockers and objects make it a lot worse for other ranged-type killers to use their ability. Changing map to accommodate nurse will weaken nurse but make other killer powers feel worse/less applicable to use.
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Let all maps be like Lery: no, just no thanks 😂
On the other hand, as Predated rightly says, the advantage of Lery's walls (and fortunately) is that they are thin enough that the nurse is not affected by the blink in place due to the classic : "Ha ha, your destination was in a solid wall, so your blink will be a 0.1m blink" 😁
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They do not need to be Lerys level of Los to be better. Lerys can allow you to escape a 2 min chase against Nurse if the right distance is set. They could still have thé map size shrink and keep dense borders at the same time. It's a bit harder for projectile killer but if the obstacles are not too big, all that matter is the time it will take to reach a running survivor. In the contrary, Nurse can't just follow on foot, thus she'd suffer a lot more from such a change.
Moreover, shrinking map shouldnt have been an excuse for the removal of LOS blocker in the first place.
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I see what you did there 👌
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I agree that Blink should be treated as M2, would it be just as a matter of consistency. But, at the same time you have add ons that allows her to Blink 2 times almost instantly after fatigué, so we really need to have some part of the map that can grant a chance at escaping, and having long corridor structures as the only LOS on a lot of map is also à big oof to me.
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But you are obsessed with his M1, it is not possible 😣
Leave him alone, I want to be able to use Sloppy Butcher, K.O. or Jolt if I want to 😥
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They should put those effects in form of add ons, like they did with every other killer. Like so, you have a choice to make : cdr or utility. It's the case for most killer power and should be the case for the strongest power in the game. And it's coming from someone who's played his fair share of Nurse. 😅
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But that doesn't change the original fact: there's no reason why the nurse can't use Jolt, K.O. or Sloppy Butcher while the other killers can 😣
I'm going to be told that the goal is to curb the "Exposed" status. Just change her TR when she carries a survivor to solve the problem, and regarding the other "Exposed" perks, apart from NOED, which could indeed disappear, only Devour Hope is really dangerous with the Nurse; in a pinch Make Your Choice IF it is combined with Flood of rage 🤔
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sure, but that is how its suppose to be. your suppose really consistent as killer 7-8/10 times on ending chases but have the opportunity that 1 bad chase can make you lose if you misplay the chase. I still think best way to fix nurse is to rework make her blinks work like Wesker's virulent bound where she needs phase-through you to hurt you. I think it would tie into her lore a lot more nicely. She is spectral(Ghost) and Ghosts in lore are all about haunting your soul and killing you from inside. I just don't think that trying balance a killer that blink through pallets(vault through pallets) and has follow-up m1 attack is possible to balance. I think it would also fix her special-attack gameplay because it would work like special attack now since nurse no longer basic attacks to injure, She just phases through you and you get injured. The suggestion to change her attacks from basic to special is inconsistent with game mechanics. I think this version of nurse would play closer to Anxious grasp add-on but instead of screaming, you would get injured.
I recon that a Wesker-type that killer that dash goes through windows and pallet would still be really strong. It would likely lower skill-floor as well but anyways, that is just my opinion. It probably need experimentation though, since perhaps 2 blink might be too much.
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Tbh the case of Jolt and KO only working on M1 is a problem in itself. It restricts the usage of the perks way to much for the not so strong effect they have.
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Its really a shame that RPD is the odd one out. Not sure about the new Gideon Meatplant, as the old Gideon did have thin walls too, but The Game is quite good on Nurse regardless of walls as far as I know. Even Hawkins had super thin walls that allowed for instablinks.
Lery's has god tier Nurse potential since the entire map is a flat plane, and has a lot of straight walls that she can pass through. The only reason I think why Nurses hate it is because they are used to looking where survivors are going. But on Lery's that only matters on corners. Lery's is a map where you have to assume you're phasing like Spirit while playing Nurse.
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Oh if we're going in depth on some of the Nurse issues:
Nurse doesnt need 2 recharge addons, the yellow one can be reworked into something else. I would say the green one due to her 3-blink addon, but you could also give 3-blink Nurse a slightly bigger recharge penalty or a bigger fatique penalty on her 3rd blink.
Using her m1 asap+fatique shouldnt be the same cooldown as waiting for fatique, because Lunging gives her additional distance that waiting for her fatique doesnt do. Unrelenting actually makes this beneficial too. Missing a hit should increase her fatique/decrease her fatique movementspeed even further.
DS should deplete all charges on killers that can close gaps quite effectively(Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Wesker, Clown and Twins included) and block charging for the duration of the perk stun. The reason no one runs DS and prefers Off The Record is because its absolutely useless against these killers who are already quite good at tunneling.
These 3 changes affecting Nurse alone(altho the DS one I would prefer to be implemented like that) would give survivors plenty of room for counterplay even on open maps.
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