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DBD is becoming less enjoyable at higher levels and I know why.
Hi guys, what's up? I'm ok and I hope your days are going well too.
Today I want to share my thoughts about how the game changes are affecting the gameplay.
Recently we have some changes on perks to make others more interesting for us and some added perks to killer and survivor base kit. But currently we have 2 big problems at high levels, in my view.
First, gen progression: Most high level survivors efficiency at gen are pretty good, so killer who don't use gen defense perks will probably lose all gens very fast (even downing survivors fast). What killers do to manage that is camp and tunnel survivors out the match. We will talk about that later. But what I mean is that killers are being forced to use gen defense perks, which makes builds less variable.
Second, lack of strategy: For both roles, camping and tunneling are boring. Some players just play that way because they have no choice. I don't know how would it be enjoyable to every single match stay still doing nothing just camping or being camped at hook, or for survivors every single match get focused the entire match being forced to use protection perks and decisive strike to deal with it.
So in my opinion we are having less variations of match, getting bored, pissed off with campers, being forced to play the same way in every single game, facing the same killers, dealing with the same mechanics, endurance, same gen regressing or blocking perks and when we try a different combination of perks we get destroyed.
We already have perks to encourage killer to go away from hooks, but we all know that it's not working at all. Camping and tunneling became more and more viable! We can't nerf gen efficiency without punishing more tunnelers and campers because it would be a guaranteed win for them. So I don't know. What I want to see in the game is killers getting more rewarded by getting different chases, quick downs and early hooks without being forced to use gen defense perks. I don't want to over extend the post so I will resume some solutions and invite you to share your opinion:
Nerf gen defense perks and gen efficiency, buff decisive strike making it base and the perk would add additional stun time, buff borrowed time protection for both survivors like the old version(no more billy and bubba camper?), buff killer hooking perks, buff some meme perks like play with your food(maybe less stacks which means less wast of time and power, but only lose stacks with downs at any means).
English is not my native language so forgive me if I don't make something clear. Thanks for you attention. 🙂
Comments
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"We already have perks to encourage killer to go away from hooks"
No, we don't.
We have Make Your Choice, a perk that gives the vulnerable person lots of time to hide, and Devour Hope, which will notoriously get cleansed in the first 45 seconds of the game.
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I can see where you're coming from.
Adding on to your second point, there really isn't much variety in what either role will do... Genrush? Just camp and tunnel. Camping and tunneling? Just genrush. Its a cycle and since the game is mechanically simple, either role can only do so much until the devs expand the core mechanics outside of hooks, pallets, windows, etc.
Essentially like tug of war.
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That's exactly what I mean, we don't have enough reward from this perks. The only exception was Pop but they destroyed it.
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I don't believe in "genrush" so camping and tunneling shouldn't be a counter for it since do gens is survivors main objective. Campig and tunneling it's a problem and not a solution. There must be some other strategy more enjoyable for both roles, I think.
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They kinda did that with Boons, didn't make them high risk high reward, and this community complained because of CoH, calling boons a "huge mistake".
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Those are just perks, and people complain because boons have no real counter play from killer side regardless of what people think. The killer wastes more time in relation to the game than a survivor booning. Just put it in a deadzone or in a broken spot like iron works and the killer just has to leave it up.
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well i can say basically all the gen regression perks require the killer to go away from the hook.... i mean i should say almost all the perks in general, perks don't work if u stand still, theres no perks that reward u for not leaving a hook, if that what u need to do to win thats another story, justified in most of the cases, but don't tell me that theres no perks
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Blessing itself is still a new mechanic, and that's why I mentioned "didn't make them high risk high reward".
Destroying a totem altogether needs to be one of two options you can do when in front of a boon as Killer. Either that, or larger cooldowns for getting boons snuffed as punishment for bad boon placement.
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And in the past we got BBQ, a perk that every killer got equipped for the BP bonus and that incentivised them to hook everyone at least once, and as an accidential side-effect killers were shown opportunities after a hook, so they often left and went some direction. BBQ was such a healthy perk, and while I understand the reasoning behind BHVRs decision to uncouple the perk from this general BP wealth (I myself often couldn't bring myself to equip another perk in its slot), it also made the perk way less popular, with all the repercussions.
So I advocate for a base kit mini BBQ where ever I can. Show killers the aura of one survivor after they hooked someone and give them a sizable speedboost if they move in the general direction while out of chase. This should even give M1 killers the means to check that far corner out without shooting themselves in the foot.
We could also give killers a new score event, ie +5k BP if they hook every survivor at least once while all others are still alive. This would give killers a nice reward for not tunneling and7or killing one survivor off early.
On the survivors side, a lot of maps are just aweful and too big, with nasty loops that feed into other nasty loops. Getting spun in such a monstrocity is a sure way to sour the killers moot, even if the survivor did nothing wrong. And maybe we need some kind of dynamic pallet generation. Maybe give each player either an internal +1, 0 or -1 counter, players that are really good at greeding and use very little pallets over the course of a game get +1, players that predrop a lot and use a lot get a -1 and middle of the road survivors get a 0. Depending on the final survivors score the game could adjust the pallets on the map. This is just a rough idea, but there is a clear difference in worth of a pallet with a player in the group who knows how to greed like a merchant and a scared little kitten, so increasing or decreasing that number dynamically could be an option.
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Lets assume that gens adjusted so gen defense perks are no longer needed to win vs high level team
What would happen is that killers would still run slowdown anyway, because most player at high level want to win the least amount of effort, and anything that gives the best advantage will be run, no matter what. This is how PvP games are. Human nature
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Perks don't work if you stand still?
Insidious would like a word with you. :)
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insidious is a garbage perk that nobody uses unless u are running a meme build or u are playing basement bubba/chest protector bubba. I don't even cosider it a perk somebody would ever use. plus i said almost all the perks, i doubt u run insidious in your regular build
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Eruption and call of brine 2 of the best perks for killer and some of the most common perks, both of which you have to be leaving the hook to go kick gens.
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look at the decision makers in the credits. you will be surprised. or not. After that, a lot of things became clearer to me.
as long as nothing changes in the wallet of the player, nothing will change in the game.
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Yes, the game has the mechanics to counter bad gameplay and in general add things to make playing more interesting/enjoyabe for both sides. But I think for that the code needs to be thoroughly cleaned up first. Cause, hell, we still have it that two different collision-checks (one of which should not even exist anymore by bhvr's info) call various functions in the code, leading to nothing but nonsensical hit (or lack thereof)
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Not the same thing.
There's requiring you to leave the hook and then there is an incentive to leave the hook. Those two perks require you to leave. They do not incentivize you to leave.
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its literally the same thing, if u don’t leave hook u don’t get value from the perk…. That’s the incentive to leave the hook…
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i quit because so called "strategy" camping hooks, tunneling, slugging.....i dropped 3k hours almost in a game that i thought the devs actually care about...unfortunately they really dont know what direction they want their game to go in. hence the whole unbreakable thing. they clearly dont know what they want
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That's why I said gen defense perks should be adjusted too. Killers will realize that they can use gen defense as a option and not every single game. For example if they don't know how to play with some killer very well or just feel satisfied using gen defense perks. But at least they get a chance to win with different perks. I'm not saying random perks, but like...with different combinations that make sense like: Enduring, Spirit Fury, Bamboozle and Blood Favour, which is a nice build for M1 killers. But I dare you play this at high levels with a weak killer like Sadako and try to control gens.
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This. I wish there was the opportunity to recode DBD from the ground up, stamping out years-old bugs and allowing for a proper thorough optimization.
This would so greatly help the game for us all, and they also could then put in a replay system as well, something everybody wants.
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The meta was shook.
But not for the better. Now killers babysit gens which is dull.
Most survivor builds that focus on gens,hook saves, healing ect have been nerfed to the point of uselessness. So just use sec9nd chance perks.
Same with killers, why make games unique and interesting when you can win all the time with gen regress build.
Makes winning the fun part of the game and not the game itself. And then we all complain about sweating.
I'm glad gens are becoming more interesting to work with the new perks coming in soon tho.
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This is what old BBQ was great for. Not only did it have killers walk away from the hooks it also rewarded them. I guess that's been replaced more by Awakened Awareness now though.
There's also Monsterous Shrine, but I have yet to see a killer use that one.
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Use saboteur. The perk does not have that much visible effect. I see it every 30-50th game.
Yes the perk is not very good, but it gets some use
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And Killing is the Killer main objective... so Camping and Tunneling should be in the game by your logic
There used to be other strategies but perks (on both sides) ruined it... like think about what's "meta" right now (it's Gen regression VS. Second Chances) also SWF VS. Solo
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I think they ARE recoding it bit by bit (which is why we got the weird bugs with e.g. plague's attack that triggers the sound and animation but not the statuseffect) it's just... such a mess, and doing it bit by bit is probably not a good idea to begin with
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Maybe, I don't know. My point is that a game that have almost 10 minutes of lobby and the survivor dies in less than that it's not ideal. Do you play as survivor? I don't think it's fun to get tunnel out the match without any gen done yet and that happens a lot with me and teammates...like "bro do you really gonna camp that hook with 5 gens?" or "Are you tunneling your first hooked survivor?"
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Ok so to give my thought and opinions on the OP... Sorry but I need to Quote the OP so I can stay on track (I seem to lose myself a lot more often recently)
Oh well.... Hi there... Not much just getting snowed in right now... Thanks same to you
1) Gen progression.... yea high level Survivors aren't bothered by choice of Killer, Map (cause they picked it) but are concerned by Gen Spawns... Getting the first Gen done ASAP is the best way to get momentum on their side... then potentially getting the 3 Gen broke and Mid-Map Gen... so it can go from 5 Gens to 2-3 Gens pretty fast
2) Strategy.... I mean all that is being thought of as soon as I (The Killer) enters the pre-match lobby and I assume it's the same with the Survivors... and who gets theirs going first usually "wins" the match
Also I should mention that I don't go into a match thinking I am going to get a 4K... I plan as I play (If that makes sense)
So... Killer's (I haven't asked many but) tend to start off the day with a sort of Meme build... but then over time they change it for Gen regression or the opposite (I know I do)
Ok so this is my opinion but... me as a Killer player will play who I feel like at any given time minus a few that I haven't touched in a long time
Also it's the games fault... adding in MMR and their old rating system(s) that conditioned us (players) to be more competitive... and the most competitive players are at the top
But it's up to the Killer to use the Perks that get them away from the hooks.... and you can't just blame the Killer player for camping (maybe they were about to leave but the other Survivors are nearby... so why leave... Or they get like 5 steps away from the Hook only for there to be a save so the Killer stays around to find who did the save but only sees the Survivor whom just got off the hook.... Yea I have experienced those before
I would rather them buff base Gen regression and change the Gen regression perks... while making the Gens take 80 Charges to complete... Nerfing Gen efficiency will be harder to do
So buffing Pop, Make Your Choice, Hex: Devour Hope, Thana, Dying Light... ETC
You did good for English being your second (or third.... IDK) language
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Yup yup. The mobile version was coded from scratch, and is wayyyyyyyy more stable.
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well, at the end of the day I hope we'll get the recoded version around the next anniversary, cause a smoothed out code could/should also allow for more dynamic maps and point events
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if you camp and u have 3 unchecked people doing gens u lose the game, hence why these 2 perks are some of the best since they help you pressure gens?
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Yes, and? Who was trying to say they didn't?
No one is saying they are not good. We are saying they do not reward you for specifically leaving the hook.
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Easy fix. Don't get to high MMR. Middle MMR is where the fun is anyways.
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That's the problem right there, isn't it? high MMR just straight up doesn't feel good to play. And since, apparently, the dev team tends to balance around all MMR instead of end-game MMR(reason they claim they don't nerf Nurse or buff Sadako), it's never going to get better.
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But they do reward you for leaving the hook, if you sit and camp those perks are going to be getting you 0 value, they do nothing unless you leave that hook to go kick gens.
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That's not incentive, though. That's just choosing not to use them. Incentive would be "Hey, you get MORE value out of this perk if you actively leave the hook."
Devour Hope says "PPST! Hey, if you go far enough away, I'll let you MURDER survivors!"
That's not the same thing as "Call of Brine doesn't work unless you kick it".
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The same can be said for devour hope though, that perk does literally 0 if you don't leave the hook?
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Having a perk you are just choosing not to use at the moment is not the same thing as "Hey, here's a cool thing you get if you leave the hook"
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