Eruption is an "issiue" but circle of healing and dead hard is fine.... sure.
So the overall argument about eruption is "unfair" to soloQ compared to SWF since swf can coordinate it with comms. Which is litteraly every killer perk ever, like all of em are "easyer" countered by swf because of comms and thus "harder" to SoloQ. This reasoning doenst make any sense to me.
Dead Hard is still as common and still as annoying. Yes, it can be outplayed better now, but the main action requirement is still on the survivor, just like with eruption there is no Visiual warning. The animation is WHILE dead hard is in play, not before, not after. "Bait it out" yeah ok. Dont work on the gen that got kicked? take another? Its about the same "good" counterplay. It doesnt deny the fact that its there and its annoying.
Boons. Are the opposite to hexes right? so how come they are infinite and hexes litteraly last for at highest 2 minutes if even. Sometimes Survivors get spawned on boons (or right next to gens btw) and you can do NOTHING about it. There is no counterplay to guard your hex when they litteraly find it within the first few breaths your character takes in a trial.
How come eruption has so much people worked up about it but Dead hard and Boons seem fine to be for this community? one really could get an image of how the community just wants one side busted the other drowned. Knight does bring some example too, you can see his power as a survivor but he cant see you. And you can even get buffed by the flag if you pick it up, which is oh so reasonable for balance matters... Right?
I have a piece offering: Just let the devs make a perk that cancelles all incapitation effects, just like Shattered Hope got made a perk too.
Comments
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Boons were an awful idea from the start and clearly you weren't here when CoH went to Live.
DH is actually one of the best reworks they've ever done. There's actual skill involved now instead of "I press E and you lose". I have literally zero problem outplaying Survivors that have it and if they do get it off, it's because I messed up.
This is just classic whataboutism. "Eruption might be OP but what about Dead Hard and Boons!!!1111!!"
The existence of one OP thing doesn't excuse another's continued existence.
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Dead Hard has a lot more counterplay than it used to although admittedly it is still one of the best perks survivors have.
Circle of Healing though? Yeah, it’s dumb and should be changed. Shattered Hope is a bandaid fix perk. We shouldn’t be adding a bandaid fix perk for Eruption like you suggested either. Just change both of them. Eruption and CoH are the two most unhealthy perks the game has right now.
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Multiple things can be problems at once. Why is this concept so hard to understand lol
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my main question is why are not all 3 proplems treated equally? why does erruption get shake up the masses but somehow COH and DH is just an accepted thing at that point. Its not like there is 70% survivor only players and 30% killer only. I feel like the majority plays both sides and yet its the killer perk that gets the most attention.
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multiple things ARE a problem at ones, but only one of em gets all the posts. Thats what im on about.
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i agree here, i would even be fine with incapacitated removed and just block the gen for x seconds. Not like Dead mans or thrilling, just so you cant jump on it immediatly after. 10 seconds would be alredy enough.
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People forget that multiple things can be problematic, but I do agree with your DH statement, it's a balanced perk.
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I didnt say its op, i said its just as annoying as it was before. I can wait it out, but i loose time by doing that. I loose MORE time if i dont, so its a loose loose situation. This what you call balanced?
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Eruption being an issue does not mean CoH (or boons in general) are not an issue either.
Also Dead Hard is hard to judge, because the biggest issue are cheaters using a script to auto dead hard on your swing. I don't think it's a problem if the script problem were to be resolved.
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And still eruption is the only thing that is talked about.
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Yea, it really feels like people are grasping at straws to justify problematic things being in the game. Im tired of whataboutism on both sides. "Toolboxes might be broken, but Killers have Nurse", "Eruption might be problematic against SoloQ, but survivors have Boons", like it's so frustrating.
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Eruption is not an issue
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Yeah.
As I've gotten more experienced in DBD (accepted my role as a grumpy veteran) I've come to care more and more about how fun things can be for both sides.
There are bad things on both sides that I will argue against.
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I'm gonna stop ya' right there. Just because someone thinks one thing is a problem doesn't mean they think everything else is fine. You can find both things to be too strong at the same time, but trying to discount one thing because of another (completely unrelated) thing doesn't accomplish anything. Saying that thing A is strong doesn't mean that thing B isn't also strong.
Unless someone is explicitly telling you that Eruption is OP but Dead Hard and Circle of Healing are fine, you're bringing up oranges in a conversation about apples.
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CoH and boons are a year old. Many people when they came up raised concerns about the mechanic. BHVR responded by nerfing CoH several times and giving killers Shattered Hope. Did it fix the core problem people had with boons? No. But CoH is in a state of being just good enough to not be completely broken and the other boons aren't much to talk about so you aren't going to see a lot of talk about a year old mechanic the devs have basically said they don't plan to change.
Dead Hard was recently reworked and for the most part was well received. There's an issue with the auto dead hard script, but there's no way to know how wide spread of an issue that actually is. Some people still hate Dead Hard, because they conceptually hated the perk to begin with. So you discussions around Dead Hard have already been exhausted for the most part.
Eruption was a recently changed perk that is still up for debate whether or the devs will change the problematic part (incapacitation for 25 seconds). Hence why it's talked about far more, because there's a chance the devs might change it if people keep bringing it up.
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Boons were an awful idea from the start. Now just apply that to Dead Hard. What was the #1 issue with Dead Hard? It forces the killer to wait out their attack, because it they swing then they get punished. Exact same problem persists now. The killer can't "mindlessly/skillessly" swing, as most like to portray it. If you ask me, if the survivor is in attack range, and the killer attacks, the survivor should get hit. This goes for rollback, aim dressing, but most importantly Dead Hard.
And no, you do have problems outplaying survivors with Dead Hard, because they can option select. If they Dead Hard as they go through a pallet, unless you have perfect connection and timing, they get to drop the pallet before you hit them. That's an option select you can't do anything about. They either tank the Dead Hard hit and they don't have to use the pallet, or they get to drop the pallet and save Dead Hard because you didn't swing. Same with windows. If you have to swing to get the hit as they're going around a TL's corner to the window, they can Dead Hard, because if you didn't swing you'd just be giving them another go-around for free. You didn't mess up. They just had a BS scenario where they came out on top either way, which can be said about the entire balance scheme of this game.
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Where have you been?
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With my experience, Ive just come to realize that if something is frustrating, it can be a good area to talk about it, but most of the time I just go and play a different game. Ive recently gotten into Modded Terraria (Calamity Mod + QOL Mods) and it's been an absolute blast. Alternatively, I swap to the other role and play for a bit. The only time I dont do either is if Im working on Archive challenges and have nothing better to do, but those cases are few and far between, and overall it's been a huge boost to my mental health.
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Everyone knows Eruption is a SoloQ killer and overtuned perk, it's not uncommon knowledge. We're just waiting to see if the devs care or not whenever they decide to give us transparency on the situation.
Boons are fine, it's mainly CoH because it's so efficient, which only gets worse with comms. Again, I'm sure the devs know CoH is a problem.
DH is fine now, just need to get rid of hackers who use auto DH.
If you want solutions, I'll give you some.
Eruption
After kicking a generator, it becomes trapped until triggered.
When a survivor is put into the dying state by any means, the trapped generators trigger:
▪︎The generator explodes, losing normal progression.
▪︎The generator is blocked for 10/15/20 seconds.
Boon: Circle of Healing
Use the bless action near a dull / hex totem to convert it to a boon totem. The boon totem has an effective range of 24 meters.
Survivors within range reveal their aura to all other survivors and see the auras of their allies.
Altruistic healing is increased by 100%.
All equipped boon perks are applied to a single boon totem, and have a 150/120/90 second cool-down when snuffed out.
Shattered Hope
Snuffing out a boon totem destroys the totem and increases the owner's cool-down by 60 seconds.
Additionally, the aura of all survivors in range of the boon have their aura revealed for 10/15/20 seconds.
Boon changes
Blessing a dull totem takes 16 seconds.
Blessing a hex totem takes 32 seconds.
When a survivor has their boon snuffed out, their boon perks goes on a 150/120/90 second cool-down.
If the boon nerfs were too much, increase the range by 8 meters.
These are just rough ideas, don't take them seriously or anything.
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CoH is not even a problem anymore
the people who consider it a problem are the people that cant change their hit and run gameplay style
Plus i rarely see CoH in my games anymore, what i do see is 3-4 medkits almost every game which i dont blame them for toolboxes/maps/keys are utter trash and need a rework at this point
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Allow me to point you towards a comment made in another thread:
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Why are people comparing survivor issues to killer issues
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Hey Peanits, does the DBD team have any plans to tone down / modify Eruption (and any other problematic perks)? Just thought I would ask and slay the dragon right here.
Any transparency on the matter would be greatly appreciated by the community. If not, no worries, appreciate the response!
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Probably for the same reason why killer queue times on average are noticeably longer than survivor queue times.
The survivor role is lacking more than the killer role at the moment. Considering camping and tunneling are still such effective strategies. But this one perk also simply sticks out like a sore thumb.
The other reason it gets especially a lot of focus is the group of people that are affected the most by the perk, which is solo queue, and solo queue is already in a rough spot, especially due to matchmaking. Having the strongest perk in the game affect them more than swf survivors is just insanely bad.
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I think a lot of people are frustrated because there have been non stop arguments about eruption on these forums for a while, and we still have zero feedback from BHVR about how they feel about the perk.
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Im needing to make it more clear i guess: why is it eruption gets so many posts about it but Dead hard and COH arent?
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I mean how long old Dead Hard get the spotlight for being busted? What about old Circle of Healing? Times change, people's priorities change.
I play both sides myself and I have no issue with Dead Hard and Circle of Healing because often me losing to either perk is a result of my errors. Guy uses Dead Hard and extends chase for a long time? My fault for not waiting it out, or for waiting it out too long. Lost to Circle of Healing? Maybe I should have focused on removing the Boon to force survivors to be more altruistic.
Eruption does not feel the same way. In SWF it is completely avoidable, in SoloQ you get hit with Eruption constant with seemingly no effective counterplay. I cant read minds, and even with aura reading perks, I cannot always predict when my teammates are going to go down. Also Incapacitated as a debuff is fine in small amounts, but 25 seconds is frustrating, you cannot play the game or do anything for half a minute.
Ive seen people suggesting to buff the Incapacitated duration or adding an AOE, and I still disagree with it, the solution is make things less frustrating but still as strong. Entity Blocking the generator should be the direction the perk goes, makes it better against SWF, but not the bane of SoloQ.
And if CoH and DH prove to problematic, they can change as well, people have their own ideas, but Im tired of seeing "_ is problematic, therefore _ is fine".
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I wasnt trying to say everyone who thinks eruption is too strong atm is completely wrong, as it is clearly stated in my post i could live fine without the incapitated effect, i just notice how the whole lot of members here picking on eruption while DH and COH dont get the same amount of posts but are just as broken.
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Because Dead Hard and COH have been addressed by the devs.
Eruption has not.
This does not mean Dead Hard and COH can't still be problems, but people want the devs to do something about Eruption, because they haven't.
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And then erruption gets nerfed to the ground while DH and COH are still busted because noone talks about those no more.
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its easier to burn a strawman, is what this is about?
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so its not because its a killer perk? Good!
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It has never been about it being a killer perk. Both Dead Hard and CoH were highly complained when they were at their strongest point. They simply aren't the biggest issue in the game that people feel a need to be complaining about them. Plus unlike Eruption, both perks have actually had the devs address them.
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Well then im alot more comforted about those posts there. Im around since april, i wasnt here on COH peak and i didnt use the forum when old DH was a thing still, so in my view it looked like there is that 1 overpowered thing for killer side that immedatly gets demanded nerfs left and right while in my gameplay people can infinitly boon COH and i see DH every game.
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I think still talk about CoH but now that is Shattered Hope it's now a discussion on whether Shattered should be basekit to deal with said CoH
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We're definitely keeping an eye on all the discussions. As for plans, I can't say whether or not it'll be changing at the moment, but we'll be sure to share if/when something is set in stone.
There was definitely a time where both perks got their fair share of posts, though as others have mentioned, they've each received some changes recently. That said, if you still feel like they're an issue, you're absolutely welcome to make a thread about them and raise awareness, but tying them back to Eruption doesn't exactly get the same point across. I know you probably didn't intend it this way, but people will often compare one side to another to excuse something for being strong, so it's usually better to point out whatever you think is a problem and leave anything unrelated out of it.
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Dead hard and coh were both nerfed what are you talking about 😭
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I think the issue is more about the imbalance of what concerns the community and what doesn't. We're all prone to bias, so if something benefits us even if it's OP we'll say it's fine more often than not. But if the opposite happens, and we're negatively impacted by something the near automatic response is that it's OP.
And with regards to your last sentence, are you implying that balance issues have different weight or importance to them than others, or that it's not very productive to compare survivor and killer perks? I would think balance as a whole is one topic, not apples and oranges as it were.
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well that makes alot of sense though, my wording was unclear aswell, thanks for the clarification! ^^ I did post about how i think Shattered hope as a perk is a bad idea in the past and how that should be basekit, because of COH being infinite, but that didnt push through so i kinda gave up on that.
Anyway thank you very much for the confirmation about DH and COH alredy having seen nerfs, it gets more understandable why erruption has so many posts right now.
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Herein lies the problem. You didn’t see the posts about DH and COH and therefore you assume they didn’t exist. COH was nerfed twice. DH was nerfed twice (once post ptb). The posts about them have been and gone. If you want to revive them or make your own, you can.
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Dead hard is fine and circle of healing is mostly fine. Like others have said one thing being op doesn't mean other things have to be op. Dead Hard and circle of healing have been dealt with already.
There is no good argument to keep eruption as is
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Eruption should be changed. It should have no cooldown and hopefully the devs keep it in the game for 5+ years like old broken Dead Hard. Dead Hard is better now sure but it's still the most unfun survivor perk to play against. Having to bait it out and constantly wait to swing as a killer is obnoxiously stupid and unfun. That's not even touching the issues with the cheaters. CoH is still stupid OP especially on indoor maps, Ironworks of Misery, Eyrie of Crows, etc etc with elevated totem spawns.
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I definitely don't mean to imply anything about the OP, I'm sure their intentions are good. Just trying to save everyone unneeded headaches and make sure that feedback is as clear as possible.
Balance as a whole is a single topic, but when we're talking about specific perks, we're not talking about balance as a whole. That goes double when they're perks that have completely different effects (e.g. Eruption, a perk that slows down gens, and Dead Hard, a perk that helps you not die). Pitting the two against each other isn't going to lead to many constructive discussions because you're forcing a square peg into a round hole- they're nothing alike. Both can simultaneously be too strong, too weak, or anywhere in between without it making a difference. Ultimately one being strong has no effect on the other being strong. At the end of the day, the only conclusion you can really come to is, "Yep, they're both strong" - which is something that most people would have agreed to in the first place judging by how much they're used. If it were two perks with similar effects, on the other hand, then it makes a bit more sense to discuss them together (e.g. Eruption & Hyperfocus).
Bias no doubt plays some role in what people talk about (not the only factor, of course), but if you ever think there's something that's not getting enough attention, the best way to combat that is to talk about it. Be the person to bring it up and other people will join in. If you don't say something or only point out how people aren't talking about it, nothing changes, people still aren't talking about it.
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Dead Hard hasn’t really been dealt with though. The counterplay is “just don’t lunge” and “just don’t use certain killer powers”, and that still feels super awful and unfair. CoH got nerfed more than once, and Dead Hard needs to be reevaluated to see if it needs to be nerfed again.
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Pointless whataboutism.
It's like saying to someone that I don't like pineapple on pizza, and their response is "oh FINE okay but I guess eating pizza with anchovies on it is delicious and normal"
there's some thought pattern failure there, intentional or otherwise
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You know what ima going to do that next time i eat pizza with my friends XD
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You can hardly call what happened to CoH a nerf. It now takes a whole *2 SECONDS* longer to self-heal without a medkit than at go-live and even less difference to other healing methods.
CoH is still completely killing the Hit & Run playstyle - make it less insanely OP and you'll see less tunnelling. NOTE: I know that nothing will stop tunnelling (mainly because it's a perfectly valid strategy) but making hit & run more viable will help.
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This. I lol when I hear "it's already been nerfed twice!!!" the nerfs were nothing
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"CoH is still completely killing the Hit & Run playstyle - make it less insanely OP and you'll see less tunnelling."
I completely disagree. Making other strategies more viable won't change the fact that tunneling is still, and likely will be for the foreseeable future, the most efficient tactic possible and therefore tunneling will be as common as ever, if not easier because of a tool being taken away from Survivors.
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Because those have already been complained about when you weren't even a forum member and they got nerfed or reworked.
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