Asking your opponent to "play nice" is ridiculous
Can't think of any other game where one side tells their opponent to "play nice" for them and to not kill them early. Weak links/players always die first in any game. Can you imagine a pubg player telling their opponent "i literally just spawned, don't kill me early, let me loot first". Why is this "play nice and fair for me" still a thing in dbd i don't know lol. Killers are allowed to kill someone as fast as they can just like survivors are allowed to do gens as fast they can.
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If a survivor would do gens while a killer was afk, I see no issue with a killer downing and hooking an afk survivor. If i was that survivor, its my fault, I shouldn't have grabbed my third cup of cranberry-mango juice while the game was loading.
To your point, sometimes we play bad, sometimes we play extremely well in situations that already were a detriment to our opposition. Matches arent that long, we all move on and try to enjoy the next game. If not, play Civ! It's a really good game.
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Killers can do whatever they want, that is something that will never change.
Said that, you cant possibly expect the player that was hard tunneled/ face camped to be happy and joyful, so there will always be comments of survs telling to let then play the game a little.
What i would like is that tunneling and camping were not to be the most effective way of winning in dbd, as both are unhealthy as f.
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Sportsmanship is a pretty great thing. When I play I try to treat others like I'm playing a tabletop game in the same room with them. I like playing the game, so I want to treat people kindly so they will want to keep playing the game with me. If you treat everyone like #########, eventually you will be the only one left playing, all by yourself. But hey, guess you got bots now to keep you company.
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Agreed killers can tunnel / camp & kill anyone they desire as quickly as they like, or as fast as their skill would allow them to.
& survivors can bring the best perks & items to keep them from going down fast & have all the gens done lighting fast & leave.
If thats how they want to player more power to them, however if everyone plays to such a standard or at least attempts to play to have games done within minutes a lot of players (on both sides) will drop this game very quickly.
As a killer I play for 11 hooks & give the gate or hatch thats a me thing others aren't obligated to do the same!
As a survivor I play for the team to try get everyone out (not easy as a solo player) not just slam gens, pop or boon totem, find a pointless broken key in a chest, ect.
Of course I'm neither asking nor expecting everyone to play my way.
But I suspect players in my games are more likely to want to play another round than those who's games are over in mere minutes.
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I 4k’d a game yesterday that they only finished 1 gen. A player called me trash cuz I used Hex perks…XD lol. Retribution and Plaything on Slinger.
Also this week I was called Trash for using Starstruck on Onryo. I crushed that group as well . In another game I was the Executioner, this group did poor as well. A player said you got the others you should give me the hatch……..really. I told them Killers kill. Have you ever given yourself to a killer that did poorly so the could have 1 kill. They didn’t respond :/ I assume NO.
Go play Fortnite and see a colorful game w/ a insane variety of characters and tell me those players aren’t out to DELETE you ASAP! They’ll dance on your grave
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Again...why do you need survivor's validation?
Just play how you think will get you the win if that's what you want, or how you enjoy playing if that's what you want.
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Most people enjoy the games that were pretty close, like everyone got hooked once, first one dies (not tunneled) when 2 or 3 gens are left, then its a battle of attrition: all gens got some 50% done, but everyone is on death hook. Killer gets the second kill, only one gen left, now its skill vs skill, but all pallets are gone. The desperate last chase, if the killer downs the survivor now, they win the game, but the last gen is also at 85% and cant be left alone.
This is the kinda DBD that we all remember fondly, but this kinda games are somewhat rare. Most of the time one side is clearly on a roll and kinda stomps the other. If its the killer, they can at least not tunnel and camp and thus everyone walks out with a somewhat nice BP amount, but if they just slaughter everyone at 4 gens its just a wasted game.
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So killers show "sportsmanship" by not tunneling. How do survivors show sportsmanship though?
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Running under a hook and waving you over.
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Or maybe cleanse a totem after completing a gen every time. Gens going too fast is very "unfun" for me too :(
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Lol they don't. I'm devotion 24 and I've had 1 survivor give me a free kill when I had a terrible game. They also don't stop gen rushing even if you have 1 hook at 1 gen. If you play fair and don't camp or tunnel, you're rewarded with tea bags at exit gates and dudes moon walking in your face basically saying you're a joke and trash
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It's not about tunneling or throwing yourself at the hook. It's not about killer or survivor. It's about not being a dick to other players.
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A modern DBD classic
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TBF, thats the fallout of the MMR system. Before the MMR I would experience survivors sometimes giving me a mercy hook or gathering in the middle of the street and all donating their items. But with the MMR, losing as a survivor really suxx. It increases your chances to be paired with scared, little baby-survivors who will let you die on 1st hook, even if you run Kindred and the killer is chasing someone on the other side of the map. While a killer giving a survivor the hatch won't be punished for this with a higher chance of facing off against a seal team 6 sabo squad.
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Well, i do totems, i dont run in circles (because i think looping is boring), i never teabag you, and depending on how the game went, i let you hook me (very rarly i give you the kill, too. but i have seen others doing that more often than i do, but it is still rare).
However, i usually play solo as survivor, and you might not recognize my good intentions because my teammates flashlight-click, teabag and being rude just because they won.
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This pretty much.
Camping and tunnelling are and should be valid strategies to use when the circumstances call for them, but using them right off the bat to oppressively dominate from the get go should not be a 'profitable' tactic.
It should not be 'optimal' for the killer to want to eliminate a survivor before they've had a chance to play the game, in order to secure a lead.
They should be more 'costly' so killers have to think more about whether or not 'now' is the right time to camp/tunnel, will it actually grant a lead in 'this' situation? etc.
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Honestly?
Because only one side has the power to kick players out of game "prematurely".
Killer isn't a group role were individual players can be yeeted out of a trial like in last man standing shooters. Only survivor can be cut short in terms of playtime per trial.
But both sides can and often will make the experience unfun for the other side by playing too casual or too ambitious for the win.
The problem remains that their is no normal and ranked queue separation like in other games. With the reminder that even those don't prevent such games between different mindset aka you can't keep tryhards out of casual matches.
Also DBD isn't big enough to split the community like that without extreme queue times.
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You also have to consider what a 'ranked mode' would actually look like.
Ranked modes typically require a greater level of balance. You're probably looking at banning certain add ons, probably offerings in general, perhaps some kind of 'killer ban' system too, and you don't want players getting distracted by challenges and dailies, so they won't be able to progress those.
It would end up being a very niche arena for players to sweat and nothing more, because if you want anything else out of the game, any kind of fun that doesn't involve being insanely competitive, then you'll be playing 'normal' mode with everyone else. This 'normal mode' will still be the majority of players, and will still feature a range of skill levels, so you will still need some kind of match making system that tries to take that into account so that newbies and potatoes aren't completely miserable.
And ultimately, that sort of competitive arena can already be arranged via custom matches, which is where all 'tournaments' are held anyway.
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Idk, you can play the game without being a jerk about it, it doesn't take much effort to be a good person
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How can you even call a "close game" a 3v1 at "2/3 gens left"?
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I love being camped and tunneled, oh jolly! I boot up DBD for killers to give me all kinds of attention, ain't I just lucky?
/s
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By playing a game and taking advantages is being a dick to others? Ridicilous argument! You need to stop being so entitled, your not the center of my thoughts when we play in the same lobby, its a pvp game. You loose some, win some, you dont ask to get handheld by others so YOU can enjoy the game more.
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Well, it obviously wasn't close for the sacrificed survivor, but for those who made it to the end. Most of my normal, non-stompy, non-tunneling, well-proceeding games have the first kill at 2 or 3 gens remaining, with the other survivors spreading out. If i didn't keep up the pressure after that first kill, i would be down to one gen about 20s later. DBD games have become faster and the only way to slow that down is, well, slow-down perks and slow-down playstyle.
So yeah, a lot of my games with the first kill at 2-3 gens turn out to be rather close, but as always: your own experience may vary, and by its nature DBD is prone to be swingy. The same game that could be a lot of fun with defending the last gen, while the survivors try to hit and repair it could very easily just snowball at a moments notice and be over that very instance.
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This isn't exactly rocket science, but of course you're not expected to play the way someone else wants. That said, if you're playing in a way that you know people will find unfun, you shouldn't be surprised when they return the favour. You get what you give.
There's also nothing wrong with realizing that the person on the other end is a person and wanting everyone to have a good time. Play the way you want.
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Very well said.
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I guess my experience is different because if I get a kill with that many gens left, unless I massively misplay, the remaining ones don't get to reach endgame. Anyway, I realised my question sounded somewhat provocative, but it was genuine
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Killer players always say that no one wants to be genrushed because a 3-4 minute game isn't fun for them but here they are forcing 3vs1 as quickly as possible. It's like the game has become which side can give the other side the least amount of fun.
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Dbd is the only multiplayer game I've put a large amount of hours in, so I don't have many example but I've been criticized for using a specific weapon in CSGO because my opponents thought that it is to easy to use and many Players dislike spawn killing (or whatever it is called) in R6S so I don't think that asking your opponent to play nicely (or rather avoid using tactics you deem unfair) is a dbd only thing.
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Thing is
- Early down at 5 Gen, tunneling/camping will even put survivors at disadvantage that they have no chance to comeback
- First down with 2-3 Gen done, tunneling/camping to pressure and make the game even out
- First down with 5 Gen done, tunneling/camping because there is nothing left to do
Tunneling & Camping are always rewarded at all stage of a match.
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No harm done, I know what you mean. I acually rarely have my first kill at one gen left, if all the survivors in my games survive that long, they usually have no problem to slam the last couple of gens. I guess this heavily depends on playstyle and perk selection? And I am only talking about close games, I also got a good couple of games were I get my first kill that early and the game just unravels from that moment on, with the other survivors not regaining their footing and me stomping.
Close games are the best DBD has to offer, but they are somewhat rare, because there is no come-back mechanic like dynamic repair buffs/debuffs or whatever depending on the hooks/gens remaining ratio or whatever. People seem to dislike such comeback mechanics because "why should I be punished for playing good/the other side berewarded for losing?", and there is some truth to that, too. Every descision has advantages and disadvantages, and the greater picture isn't always apparant at a glance.
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Play like you'd want the other side to play. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.
I do what I have to in order to win. I expect Survivors to do the same.
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Yet there's no 'unfair victim' to tunnelling or camping mid-late game, all survivors have had a chance to play the game, do gens, make rescues, etc. and for whatever reason whoever gets caught and then camped/tunnelled at that stage has had every opportunity not to be. It's fine if camping/tunnelling at this stage benefits the killer, especially when all the gens are done, because as you say the killer has nothing else to do.
It's just the early game camping and tunnelling that is the 'unfair' issue. Camping/tunnelling should get progressively more 'worthwhile', starting at 'not at all worthwhile' at the start of the game, sliding to 'the only thing left to do' by EGC.
Killers who play 'anti-camping/tunnelling' perks, such as Devour, Make Your Choice, BBQ, Grim Embrace, etc. already experience this, and those who make an effort to actively pressure gens at regular intervals throughout the game instead of going for the fastest elimination. If some of these mechanics can be tied to the basegame, in order to prevent early-game camping/tunnelling from having such a huge payoff, it would likely disappear.
Hooking each survivor once to unlock a permanent buff.
A buff that's active as long as no survivors have been sacrificed.
A consequence to camping that gets progressively weaker as gens are completed.
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This is absolutely correct, however the problem with the application of "you get what you give" in this game, is that the favour often isn't returned in the same game, and can't be. Instead, players carry over this mentality between games, afflicting opponent B with the consequences wrought by opponent A.
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Speaking for myself, I try to operate on the Golden Rule. If I don't like something being done to me when I'm survivor, such as tunneling, I try to avoid doing it on Killer, and vice-versa.
The way I've come to look at it is Dead by Daylight is, first and foremost, a game. In note responsible for other players' fun, but the other side of that is I have no reason to go out of my way to ruin other players' fun.
Overall, I won't necessarily play nice, but I will at least strive to play fair. In the process, I hope to end up with and/or provide the minimum best outcome: A game I/they don't mind losing.
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That is a good idea, though I feel like its not really enough, because Im sure your buff will never as good as remove 25% survivors' strength.
I do have a difference idea, but its more complicating
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I had this happened last night. Got a Meg on death hook and smacked the Zarina to dying state. So I picked up Zarina, and just stood in place so she could wiggle off and get the save. I then decided to go after Mikeala for her two hooks and this Meg and Zarina did nothing but flashlight clicky and teabag. Heck, I even finally hooked Mikeala two times and on the second time, I literally stood there trying to pantomime, "Hey, come unhook her, it's okay." and they still proceeded to be jerks. Like, I'm obviously giving you guys chances to make saves.
But I understand too that people will pretend to be nice just to be jerks at the end. Thankfully one of their teammates was decent and gave a gg. I don't wanna kill, I just my two hooks and slaps.
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I don't think it's ridiculous. It's not as simple as that.
I don't expect my opponent(s) to play "nice" but I prefer when they do it.
I'm speaking for myself but I don't think I'm the only one acting like this.
Whatever role I play, I usually start a match with the intent to have a good time. If I realize the other side is playing efficiently (or any variation of play devoid of fun) I'll immediately answer in kind. (An bad map offering will immediately make me play harshly)
As survivor, since I'm pretty average, I don't have many options : rush the gens and leave is often the answer (yes, there are others, and a quick hook death is never it)
As killer, I can punish the sweaty play simply by starting to tunnel, slug, camp, ... depending on the state of the match. But usually even stopping fooling around in chases is enough : more often than not, survivors don't adapt quickly enough to a suddenly stronger opponent.
Also, the parallel with games like PUBG doesn't work here. In games like PUBG, everybody has the same chance (with a strong random factor). In DbD, there isn't as much "balance". A bad map? A natural enemy against your build? A bad team? You can basically press F if your opponent plays hard. (e.g. Many killers on Lery, The Game, ... Stealth builds against a Doctor, ...)
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