Slug update WHEN!?
Comments
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If you want the last survivor to stop hiding, then hook the one on the floor and go for the hatch race. PvP are meant to be played to the end, not for one side to surrender because the other side cannot bear to give the slight chance of escape.
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I agree to fix it, but also fix slugged survivor not leaving the match and wasting the killers time too, they crawl to the corner refused to get picked up or stuff like that. make bleed out timer into 1 min when its last person alive. don't make it 5 min
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so its unrealistic to expect the survivors to keep trying even though the odds are out of their favor, but its not unrealistic to expect the killer to give up their kill to give another chance for the survivor to not only escape, but do so without even having completed their primary objective?
The hatch is a pity mechanic. There's a reason it doesn't even count as a win, but rather a draw. Anyone willing to drag the game out over it on either side is equally guilty, but considering its nature I don't really blame killers for wanting to prevent it as much as survivors selling out their teammates (and yes, waiting for your ally to get found and killed while doing nothing to attempt the objective is teaming with the killer, even if not overtly) to try to sneak out. This game is structured entirely around a shifting advantage dynamic, with everything starting very survivor sided and devolving to being killer sided by the end of a given match (unless the killer loses before then.) Thats an important consideration to ponder while sitting in lockers wasting 4+ minutes delaying the game.
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Nobody is asking you to surrender. Go help your teammate up or work on a gen
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because in the first one your chances of survival are minuscule, borderline impossible to win against a decent killer. But in the hatch race, killer still have the upper hand as they are faster and dont need to hide.
Say what you want about the hatch, but it was a mechanic that kept the games going. It avoided these horrendous stalemates from happening and gave a reason to the last survivors to keep repairing and try to help the downed survivors.
Now it is all "accept the loss", "keep repairing so i can kill you or i will report you", "dont hide even if you have no other choice".
Now most killers think they are deserving a 4k every game ignoring the massive buff they received when bhvr almost kill switched the hatch giving them a whopping 4 minutes of stalemate advantage every single game.
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"because in the first one your chances of survival are minuscule, borderline impossible to win against a decent killer."...unless you're a decent survivor. Why include the "decent" part for killer while being unable to have more than a "miniscule" chase? People can run killers for multiple minutes and do so regularly. You're cherry picking.
Nobody has the upper hand with the hatch btw, because the outcome of the hatch scenario is entirely dependant on where it spawns. Even if the killer finds it first, keys both exist and can be found mid match. It is a 5 layered cheesy burrito of rng.
'Now it is all "accept the loss", "keep repairing so i can kill you or i will report you", "dont hide even if you have no other choice".'So let me ask you this: If you have a teammate who is refusing to continue the game, slowly hiding from locker to locker waiting for you to die for an excessive amount of time, what choice do you have? You now have a three way stalemate unless you are the better person and attempt to progress the game, regardless of the outcome. You are so focused on pitying yourself in this situation you are completely oblivious to the fact that the other survivor is finding themselves in the exact same shoes. Believe it not people generally like playing the game instead of delaying it, and many would rather lose and continue the match than stall endlessly begging for a pity "win" (its a draw.)
The killers wanting a 4k every game comment is a massive projection every time it gets used, just like its opposite of "survivors want to be able to escape every game." Both perspectives show painfully obvious bias when they get thrown out pointlessly in discussions. Its not even worth addressing the "massive buff" comments.
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Because in those scenarios, the last survivor skill is not relevant as you cant repair 2 or 3 90sec gens alone. You will eventually get caught unless the killer is really bad.
It's RNG based yes, but still the killer has an advantage over survivors in speed, especially killers like Legion or Blight.
I dont understand why you assume that i like hiding for hatch, i dont. What usually happens is that i am the guy being slugged watching the killer going back and forth the area. In this wonderful moment of dbd gameplay, i keep thinking it would be nice there were some way to escape this situation but it is not. Believe or not, even in soloQ survivors can care for the players that are in their team. I cant demand my teammate to keep repairing so he can die and i cant sell him either. So i am stuck spending 4 minutes bleeding out thanks to these stalemates.
Now tell me, killers do not want a 4k every game? at least whenever they slug for the 4k, they are actively halting the game for 4 minutes to guarantee it. If killers truly did not care they would just hook the 3rd survivor and go for hatch race and we wouldnt be having this conversation.
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Then get better in chase instead of complaining about being slugged. If the chase goes for a long time, lead the killer to where the other survivor is hiding as they have clearly already both sold you out and teammed with the killer to get you killed. You keep begging for pity and claiming everything is impossible when you could be improving your gameplay to make it more worthwhile.
If there are only two left and a killer has to work very hard to down you while knowing the other person is just waiting for hatch, they're just as likely to let you go than the other person because they hate that situation just as much. If you go down in 5 seconds? yeah, they're going to slug you. You're a weak and easy target, and slugging you puts a hard 4 minute cap on finding the other person before the game is forced to proceed one way or the other.
'If killers truly did not care they would just hook the 3rd survivor and go for hatch race and we wouldnt be having this conversation.'many do. If you can't last more than a few seconds in chase before going down, though, you are showing you present zero risk if you're picked back up while they're searching. Like with tunneling, being a threat is the strongest deterrent. And in this case, it also coincidentally appeals to the other player's sense of competition and sportsmanship. Consider that maybe there's a reason you find yourself in this situation so often.
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'You keep begging for pity and claiming everything is impossible'
'If you go down in 5 seconds? yeah'
'You're a weak and easy target'
'If you can't last more than a few seconds in chase before going down, though, you are showing you present zero risk'
Your whole argument is just you claiming that i am pitiful, weak, etc. You dont even know how i play this game or how i behave in chase.
My argument has always been of how obnoxious these stalemates are, how easy they are to get, and how they were fabricated by the overnerf of what you call a pity mechanic. You defend this hard 4 minute cap thinking it is for your own skill, yet you always fail to mention how this were given to you by the devs nerfs on surv side and buffs to yours.
And now you can only said "get better in chase", "if you see a teammate hiding, lead the killer to him" , things that does not solve the problem in the minimum. You truly dont give a f about the survs put in this situation because you will just tell them to git gud.
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"because in the first one your chances of survival are minuscule, borderline impossible to win against a decent killer."You made the argument yourself. Its self fulfilling prophecy. I have absolutely no idea how you play in any aspect of the game, but your perspective you exhibit is one of inevitible defeat, which alone prevents success from being a possibility. Defeatism is going to convey that you are not confident in your skill to overcome adversity.
`And now you can only said "get better in chase", "if you see a teammate hiding, lead the killer to him" , things that does not solve the problem in the minimum. You truly dont give a f about the survs put in this situation because you will just tell them to git gud.`Those things do fix the problem, they just don't fix your specific complaint with the problem. Thats why I've been trying to show the issue from multiple perspectives, so you can be more open minded about what the problem actually is.
Also where did i say anything about the bleed out timer involving skill? All I said is that it creates a conclusion to the stalemate, in a similar vein to the EGC. It wouldn't even be a stretch to say that the EGC itself was at least partially inspired by how the existing bleed out timer worked.
Edit: also stop trying to spread the net talking about buffs and nerfs. I know its a been a while, but you do remember that moris were reworked well before the hatch/keys, when they were both part of the same direction change, right? You're trying to shift perspective on purpose to suit your needs instead of being objective.
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You may have forgotten but we already had this discussion in another thread before, and i already explained to you while giving you several examples that it is not difficult for killers to produce these stalemates where there are too many gens for survivors to complete. But you just disregarded all of them. Told me i was exxagerating and bringing extreme situations....
To not fall in Defeatism is not the same as to evade reality. Honestly, i really hate to hide or see others hide but it is really easy with today's dbd to be stuck in this situation with very few mistakes. And a bad game chains to another bad game.
And these stalemates piles up and produce this:
- people opening threads telling how obnoxious sluggin for the 4k is.
- people asking to bhvr to reveal hiding survivors
- bhvr trying to do umbreakable basekit and affecting the normal slugging
And i will finish this discussion here, because no matter what i tell or show you, you are going to give me another fancy answer of how i am not good and why i must get better.
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Actually, the OP is arguing in bad faith. They talk about being left to bleed out but there example is this:
"That's not what I am talking about. They slug me then go find the last remaining survivor. If that survivor is good at hiding then I am forced to bleed out wasting my time. "
So a killer is facing two survivors. They down one and slug them while looking for the final survivor. That's in no way toxic or unfair, it's smart strategy. That's far different from slugging all 4 survivors and leaving them to bleed out without grabbing any of them - completely different situations.
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I think some of the contention here is because there is a lot of discussion about slugging all 4 and leaving them to bleed out as opposed to the actual example the OP gives.
"That's not what I am talking about. They slug me then go find the last remaining survivor. If that survivor is good at hiding then I am forced to bleed out wasting my time. If I am forced to be slugged at least give me the option to end it myself without a penalty. I shouldn't have to just lay there. Either make unbreakable base kit so people have consequences for slugging or give me an option to leave the game without taking a penalty."
It specifically refers to the second-last survivor being slugged then the killer going to try to find the last survivor who is hiding. This clearly implies that the final survivor is still mobile/not slugged themselves as hiding is nearly impossible when slugged due to blood trails, grunts of pain etc.
The OP just doesn't want to be slugged at all.
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And i will finish this discussion here, because no matter what i tell or show you, you are going to give me another fancy answer of how i am not good and why i must get better.Likewise, no matter how much I try to emphasize that improvement reduces the frequency of the worst cases you laser focus on, you will always pretend to have zero agency in either their cause or result. Agree to disagree, but keep in mind you're the only one affected by your adaptation to the game around you. Whether you take my advice or not doesnt affect me in any way, and I am quite content with how these situations play out regardless of whether I escape or not. Thats the thing I've been trying to get through more than anything.
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Agreed to disagree
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Not true. Sometimes you down a survivor and another is right there so taking the chase is in your favor.
Either way, survivors can't complain that being slugged to bleed out takes too long but then make sure they're on the ground for the full time.
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if the other one is right there, there won't be time for the downed survivor to disappear
if you took too long to down the survivor that was "right there", then you don't deserve to hook the one you "forgot" on the ground for several seconds.
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What do you suggest the killer do instead to ensure someone doesn't get hatch?
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The hatch is apart of the game. There is nothing you should be able to do other than race a survivor for it. You shouldn't be able to just slug and thats it. There has to be a way for the survivor who is slugged to save themselves. Its a cop out to slug. YOU need to make the choice. Can I find this survivor in time? I mean if you slug and the survivor picks themselves up then the other survivor still doesn't get hatch. Why do you have such a huge problem with one survivor getting hatch.
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Take the risk instead of holding the slugged survivor hostage. Stop caring about the 4k. The only time it is acceptable to leave some one slugged is if they have boil over and keep running to a hook deadzone or a sabosquad. Anything else is morally wrong.
Time is something you can lose but never get more of, and for what? an extra kill? You will say its just 4 minutes. However it adds up. Some people may only have time for 3 games and if they get slugged and bled out that can lead to 20+ like what happened to me not that long ago with a myers that refused to hook me and refused to let me bleed out, which is why we crawl away, so you can't pick us up and walk around endlessly trying for that 4k. Now that 3 games is gone down to 1 really crappy game.
I'll never ever slug for the 4k, not even for a challenge. Rather just move on to the next game. BHVR really needs to add a bleed out mechanic so if your health bar depletes enough you can choose to die and gg next.
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Base kit Unbreakable for base kit Blood Warden? Deal.
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this happens mostly due to sabo teams harassment
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Then look for that hatch while crawling...
Like really what do you expect the killer to do when the game actively punishes them for killing the 3rd player?
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No #########, that's the objective of the killer lmao
To get as many hooks and kills as possible, not let the last survivior escape
If you hate slugging that much then run No Mither or something
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They can't be reasoned with. Best not to try. The same people saying slugging for the 4k is fine are in the Eruption thread(s) saying that perk is fine. They don’t care about a healthy/balanced game for both sides, they just want free wins.
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How in the world is "slugging for 4k" a "free win" lol
Do you not see the contradiction here
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Hook them. When I play killer I put them on a hook. If the 4th survivor escapes then so be it. Slugging is stupid.
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But that's literally working against your own objective, there is no logical reason to do that
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It is one of my pet hates too, the hatch mechanic is really the issue here though.
As killer I cant be bothered unless the survivors were particularly unpleasant, in which case I will slug for the 4k on principle.
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Out of 100 games I only got 1 non strat slug killer, 2 face campers and 3 tunnelers....yes I can safe to say it doesn't happen to me because it doesn't happen that often to worry about it
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Read what I said again.
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Bloodwarden should also activate when survivors are t-bagging at the gate or standing over the hatch deliberately waiting for the Killer to then jump.
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I think the easiest solution would be to allow survivors to 'concede' if there are only two left and they are slugged on the ground. Then it allows them to move on and the killer and last survivor can battle to RNG gods to see who gets to hatch first...
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Well Eruption is fine.....if it didn't have the status effect to go with it...itbwould be better for everyone if it just revealed the Survivor for 10 sec or just show where the Gen was the blew up.....but I agree in it's current state it's not healthy for the current status of SoloQ
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IT may or may not happen according to this note I found last month
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I did, and it still says that people consider slugging for 4k to be fine because they want "easy wins"
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What..? How in the world does that make sense?
The exact same people saying Eruption is fine in those Eruption threads, hoping it doesn't change because it is carrying them hard and giving them 'free wins' are also in this thread saying slugging for the 4k is not an issue of game health. They don’t care about the other side's point of view. Those exact same posters are also in many threads about Nurse saying she is completely fine. Posters like that need to be called out because they aren't arguing in good faith.
Not sure why you are saying slugging for the 4k has anything to do with 'free wins', but it is weird. Stop please.
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Hopefully never, same with the new mori system.
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Slugging for 4k could stand to be addressed, but base UB isn’t the answer to the problem. That PTB was horrible, further separated the strongest killers vs. the weakest ones, and completely sucked the fun out of moris as a whole. Making them basekit and more common doesn’t make them more special, it just makes them a boring cinematic nobody cares about after a few games.
I’d 100% be ok with an early bleedout option after being slugged for a while (but not instant, because otherwise it just replaces the leave match button) so we can cut down that 4 minutes to something less. But infinite self-pickup is overall not better for the game.
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Yet here we are again in a thread where the discussion of abolishing a trick to delay a disatvantageous game state is only directed at killers. This community is so anti-killer/pro survivor its not even funny anymore. "Slug to delay hatch bad, 99ing gate good."
Why is noboy ever talking about the 4th survivor not rescuing the 3rd? "Killer not hooking bad, survivor not helping good?"
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slugging isnt holding the game hostage. Its also not "morally" wrong. lmao
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The Bible literally says Thou Shalt Not Slug but ok
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I thought killer mains said "Altruism works against survivors" and that's the reason they give for sometimes getting more kills than they would have in a game. So if this argument still stands why should they help the guy on the floor if killer is proxy camping, he is obviously using him as bait, no?
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What is the incentive for the killer not to slug for the 4K? Please explain the benefit to me of allowing the 4th survivor a headstart to search for hatch.
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Wasting someones time just so you can greed a 4th kill is morally wrong. Your 4th kill is not worth that slugged persons time. Just hook them and send them to their next game.
I have been held hostage, I had a infinite myers slug me until I was close to death and then carry me absolutely refusing to hook me. I wiggle off and he just rinses and repeats not letting me leave the game. That game went on almost 30 minutes like that. That is being held hostage.
lool funny. However greed is one of the 7 deadly sins.
Your incentive is to finish the game and move to the next one.
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"Wasting someones time just so you can greed a 4th kill is morally wrong"
I hope you hold this same stance when it comes to Survivors opening the exit gate and not leaving instantly.
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Agreed on both counts.
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Lmao I was just referring to what you said before.
Sorry for assuming that you were arguing on-topic rather than mentioning unrelated issues in a poor attempt at ad-personam whataboutism
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Indeed, altruism works against surviviors, this is completely true.
However what is also true is that "hooking in a 2 survivior situation works against killer".
No amount of SLUGGING NERFS will ever fix this situation, you might as well make the 4th survivior automatically escape at this point.
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3k is a win, 4k is a smashing win.
Currently slugging for the 4k has little to no downsides for the killer, it's a low risk high reward strategy. Basekit UB for when 2 survivors are left would combat this. Killers should take some risk when they slug, otherwise what's the point of playing as a survivor at 2 left, might as well add the option to "bite your tongue" or something when slugged like how you can decide to miss the skillcheck twice in hopes of giving the last survivor a chance at the hatch. And I say a chance because it's never guaranteed.
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