Nurse is a problem.
Yes, another post about how broken nurse is. Because how can devs think she's justified when EVERY (And I mean every) round I play against her leads to at-least 2 first hook suicides or DC's and no more than 2 gens being completed max when people don't leave immediately and actually try. She's unplayable in her current state and needs work, why won't devs listen to people? And why do they think she's balanced when her kill rate is only low because likely 60-70% of her rounds have DC's so aren't included? Anyone can master her and garuntee a 3k-4k after a few hours of playing her, especially with broken perks like eruption.
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I believe the main reason is that it’d most likely take a full character rework to balance her. I personally believe she’s fine base, her add ons are just too powerful for an already powerful ability.
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It's literally a joke I didn't even want to post this but I'm honestly so frustrated, I've had 4 rounds in the space of 2 hours that have just been like I described because they were against nurse...
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Another reason why people DC against Nurse. I bet in those 2 hours of seeing Nurse 4 games you most likely haven’t played against a sinngle trapper, billy, hag, demo, etc. People are just tired of playing against the same killer. Your best bet is to just take a break from the game for now, calm down on some other game, and come back when you’re feeling better.
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I'm not frustrated at the game. I enjoy the game but my frustration is with dev's and how ignorant they are to their community and reworking useless things no ones asked for and not what a lot of people ask for like a nurse rework...
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Unfortunately, a Nurse rework isn’t just as easy as pushing a button. If she were to be reworked, she’d need to be reworked in a way that is good for game health, good for balance, and has good counterplay, which is easier said than done. While the community can suggest fixes, it’s not the dev’s job to do exactly what the community says or wants in that moment, and will normally prioritize doing things they personally find more important. I’m sure Nurse is on their to-do list, though, and hopefully those who want her reworked get that sooner than later.
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Those are some wild numbers you pulled out of thin air. 60-70% of Nurse games have a d/c? Would that move her kill rate, by what, 5%? Where are you even getting that d/c rate from? Is it so disproportionately higher than other killers that her kill rate is uniquely affected? She's easy to master, but has a low kill rate at all but the top 5% of MMR. Like....come on.
It's fine if you don't like her, but be reasonable
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Oh here we go, nurse mains awaken to protect their precious guaranteed 4k's without needing to use any skill whatsoever in comparison to any other killer.
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Feel free to post your 100 game win streak then. I mean if she's that easy surely you can do it.
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Jeez, dude, get over yourself. Way to go posting on a public forum and complaining when people post their opinions.
If you don't want to discuss this and want to have your little pity party for yourself, don't post in the first place and whine somewhere else with your like-minded friends. Real class act, I got to give you that.
It will never not be obnoxious when people come onto the forums and try to invalidate the people they are attacking in such a manner. Better invalidate them for no reason other than spite, it isn't that deep you are just salty. Get your head out of the clouds.
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Funny you say that since skill doesn’t matter with most other killers. God pallet god pallet god pallet
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The fact that you are bringing up eruption and nurse in the same post completely ruins your credibility.
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imagine actually using eruption on nurse lol
if you're a good nurse you aren't stopping for that long to kick generators
her kill rate is statistically low because she is hard, and people who are bad at her play her and 0k
BHVR has acknowledged this more than once
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this post alone tells me you have probably never actually even played killer, and you definitely haven't played nurse
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I main Huntress when I play killer, and I can say this post is just wrong. It's actually kind of hard to time your blinks and hits right with the nurse. Her skill gap is actually pretty high if I'm being honest.
I main survivor wayy more than killer, and I can honestly say, I LOVE playing against the nurse, because 6/10 times I'm going against a bad nurse who teleports way too far, or not far enough.
Also here's food for thought.... You ever think about changing up your play style? You can't loop her endlessly like you can any other killer, you actually have to play completely different with her.
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Eventually they will ner her, she must be nerfed. her addons are terible and bad design well talking about bad design, Nurse is bad design to begin with
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- First reason mentioned is survivor entitlement/DC/ragequits
- Ignorse first reason mentioned and goes on about how survivor inflated killrates somehow make the killer the problem
- Obligatory "nurse is easy"
- Calls opposite opinions nurse mains and thus dismisses their critism again him
- "Nurse is too strong compared to other killers"
Wow such a anti nurse crusader. Cant wait for your brethren to show up too. See thats a joke.
If this was a joke you didnt wanna post because of the obligatory discussion, why post it?
The last point is always hillarious zo point out how biased the community is: "Nurse compared to other killers is stronger, better nerf her" / "compared to solo, swf is stronger, better buff solo" - do i have to spell it out?
If anything by the "nerf nurse"- logic we would need to nerf the survivor character too because good players are apparantly perfoming better with that characzer than bad players.
Oh and jokes on you, i dont even play nurse because i loathe the fatigue mechanic since nurse's debut.
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Mmmm I feel like if that were even 15% of the reason people dc against nurse I would see it way more often on blight, all I see in this game are survivor's running the best stuff in preparation for a nurse/blight just as m1 killers act for swfs..Although I play this game way less since ow2 released.
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I don't know if that number holds true in the larger player-base but.....60% of Nurse games having a DC definitely sounds pretty damn spot on to my games.
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Nurse isnt broken. Starstruck + Agitation on her is.
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You have to play differently vs blight but he takes way more skill to play and play against. Skill should never be an argument for nurse's allowed power level.
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I once looped a Nurse for a good 1 minute,it still wasn't enough as after I got downed my team just crumbled and I pretty much died on hook because no one came for unhook unless I hit stage 2 and my team was so "good" that they just unhooked me in Nurse face and I got downed immediatly again and died.
Its not just the fact Nurse is op,its also the fact most survivors are **** at this game and rage so easily when something is a challenge for them.
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Running / Hold W is just boring. Nurse, Blight & Spirit are not a problem, they're the solution.
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How is nurse a solution to holding W? Most the time it’s the most effective strategy against her because without range she takes ages to catch up if you have a lead
Blight is fine though (Except for certain add-ons)
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Yeah it's very effective, especially combined with smart LoS plays. But what I meant by solution is that you're not "forced" to run for X amount of time to catch up. I mean, mobility is the main quality for a killer to be consistently competitive / high tier.
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Yep and nurse’s mobility ranges from slap bang in the middle to insanely strong depending on he map. Nurse is forced to blink X amounts of times to catch up even if the survivor is terrible just because they ran forward.
Nurse doesn’t really solve any issues. All she does is create a ton on new ones such as her broken synergy with perks like starstruck and her design causing perks like awakened awareness to get nerfed
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There are elements in your post that need to be addressed.
I'm not saying that the nurse is perfect; on this subject, I suggest you look on pages 2 and 3 of the forum, if I'm correct, as well as in the Suggestions category, you will find threads containing very interesting discussions about the nurse (and which go beyond the classic, "The nurse is broken, remove her from the game.")
First of all, you say that every game you play against her ends in, and I quote: "at-least 2 first hook suicides or DC's and no more than 2 people being completed max when people don't leave immediately and actually try".
So let me bring my point of view, based on the games I do as a main nurse.
In any game, whether it is against survivors who are struggling with the nurse, decent, good, or excellent survivors, I encounter very few DC's and/or first hook suicides.
As a main nurse, I "create", in 1 day, many more games [Surv VS nurse] than you play in 1 week, I think.
And I hardly encounter any DC or suicides.
I'm not saying you're lying; however, I question the seemingly obvious "everyone DCs against the nurse".
"She's unplayable in her current state and needs work, why won't devs listen to people?"
It's a shame to generalize like that. The fact that it's an anon implies that the entirety of the elements relating to the nurse are bad.
Which is entirely false.
Again, I invite you to do some research on the forum, and read the discussions that revolve around the reworks proposed by the players, and the discussions that followed these proposals. Very interesting, rich, and mature discussions, that being said.
"Anyone can master her and garuntee a 3k-4k after a few hours of playing her(...)"
This is not true.
A player who has "a few hours" of nannying behind him will indeed be able to get total wins.
Against survivors who don't know how to deal with the nurse, and who have trouble against her, yes, he will eventually be able to kill some of them without too much difficulty.
But put him against an organized, competent team, which doesn't lose a single second, whose members know each other and complement each other perfectly ... and there, I can tell you that your "few hours on the nurse" player will clearly feel that he still has a lot of work to do.
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I am not going to go on too much here but the biggest issues with current Nurse are basic attacks not being special attacks (AKA nerfing Starstruck on her) and full slowdown/regression builds on her.
Range and recharge could be argued as a problem with the former being more so than the latter imo but the most frustrating matches I have against her are when she has multiple slowdown builds, as she has so much pressure by design so adding stacked gen control is just plain oppressive and not at all fun
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In fact
- if you prevent the nurse from being able to use Starstruck (removal of her TR when she carries a survivor)
- you remove NOED from the game
- you remove the offering maps from the game
it solves a lot of problems (like Agitation /Starstruck on Nurse with Midwich's offering) 😀
This way, you don't have to turn your M1 into an M2 (which wouldn't make sense because it would prevent you from using Sloppy Butcher, K.O., Jolt, etc.).
And as for the "exposed" perk, only Devour hope and MYC (IF used with Floods of rage) are really dangerous on the nurse, and that you can hardly counter.
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I agree these solve a lot of problems.
I personally never liked MYC on Nurse as it just seems to make survivors go immersed and hide, which is super annoying for Nurse.
I don't like Hex perks due to their RNG nature and I don't really see them as much of an issue on Nurse personally. But I am fine with any of these suggestions/concerns as something does need to change
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Used as it is, and alone, MYC is actually one of the easiest "exposed" perks to avoid. Just hide and wait.
The danger is that the killer will come back and, not finding the exposed survivor, will fall back on the newly rescued survivor.
The Haunted Ground hex perks are also very powerful, but in parallel to that, only triggered by a survivor.
If the 4 survivors are in SWF, they all just have to hide, and one of them destroy the totem, then also go hide somewhere, the time to check if it is a Haunted Ground.
With Retribution, I would say it's 50/50.
The killer will go after the nearest survivor, but by the time he hooks him, the 15s of Retribution will have passed. Even with a slug, it wouldn't be enough to get on everyone.
Devour Hope is really the most dangerous exposed perk, because to contain it, you have to find the totem, and if by misfortune the totem is very well hidden, or is located, for example, in a place where there are still many unrepaired generators, the snowball can be terrible 😫
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Nope. I've got the hand of Blight way faster than Nurse. And in my opinion, he is stronger than her on many maps.
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I mean what do you call the hang of? Because everyone knows nurse has the highest skill floor, it's just blights skill ceiling reaches much farther than hers.
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The hang of medium to advanced moves and map knowledge to use his power correctly.
I'm simplifying a bit here, and it may be different for others, but when I compare the two:
- Nurse took me a lot of training to get the various blink moves right (a couple of weeks). For Blight it took only a few days. The essential difference is that for Nurse you need a precise timing (usually referred to as muscle memory). Whereas with Blight you mostly need a good wrist (for the 90/180 "flicks").
- Playing a good Nurse requires to know the spatial position of everything on every map. You have to work by memory as you often work "blind". Blight has a similar learning curve but you have visuals most of the time so I find it easier to acquire.
- Even if you fail a Rush or can't go for one, he is still a 4.6m/s killer with a good map coverage so following up with an M1 is relatively easy. Nurse only has the Blink option with the punishing cooldown.
- In smaller maps, especially with multiple floors, Nurse wins hands-down. In bigger maps, the advantage is to Blight.
In my opinion of course.
edit: typos
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Where have you been? Nurse was the undisputed queen of the meta long before Starstruck was a thing. She received all of the exact same complaints that she does now.
The problem isn't perks, the problem is Nurse. It's always been Nurse, and it will continue to be Nurse until the day she finally, finally gets the rework she should have received years ago.
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She's not a bad design, she's a relic from the past that is still relevant because she was ahead of the curve.
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If you haven't played Nurse that's all you have to say.
It's okay though, we Nurse mains are here to tell you all about the expirence and the lack of "skill" we use to get these so called "guaranteed 4k's" even though your complaining because a killer doesn't give you easy mode.
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Make C- and D-Tier-Trash-Killers like Trapper, Freddy, Billy etc. viable in the current Meta and u wont see Nurse and Blight only in some ranks.
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1) Blight actually take's precise timing as well, pretty much anything but a shoulder flick can be dodged in some way by a survivor and that timing required for a shoulder flick is precise and it varies based on speed add-ons. Nurse takes muscle memory but the amount of different muscle memory blight uses is a lot more.
2) Going against good survivors, they will be breaking LoS as much a possible if you got caught out in the open vs blight that is his greatest strength and the survivor's fault. Blight not only needs to understand everything spatially(he too plays most tiles his own way) but also the collision of everything in that area, while also needing to read survivor's when they break LoS. Blight takes more knowledge to be actually advanced at.
3) Has nothing to do with skill ceiling, you could just use blight's power to navigate the map and then be a m1 killer
4) Mostly true perks for nurse and add-ons for blight can make this vary.
Predicting a survivors path multiple bumps in advanced while also routing your own path to get there with no LoS is pure bump logic. All of his little techs just take muscle memory which degrade their peak skill by comparison to bump logic.
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Nurse herself is fine, she is not broken. That perk combo makes her overpowered.
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Make all other killers playable, than complain about Nurse and Blight.
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Wow, haven't heard this before
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Yeah and I just had 2 people DC against a hillbilly because of insta downs, I'm pretty sure survivors are just wimps and doesn't apply to just nurse
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Other than DC's on death hook (non-impactful DC's) I don't think 60% of my games have DC's in them.
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Keep crying. Nurse isn't difficult to play against. You're just bad
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OK
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Aren´t matches with a dc discounted from the kill rate statistics anymore?
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While nurse being OP is definitely a problem, in my opinion the bigger issue is how these people defending nurse on the forums are not just laughed off the forums for saying something as ridiculous as nurse is fine.
Nurse is OP is common knowledge, just like keys/moris were OP, lampkin lane was a busted map, Legion when he first came out was terribly designed. Saying Nurse is not an issue is like saying the Earth is flat.
Even if the devs do nothing about it because they want to satisfy players who want to role play as a "dominating killer", at least if the posters who defend nurse would stop pretending, that would be much better. Like, SWF is super OP and no one denies it. I don't understand why Nurse players can't do the same thing.
I think it is because SWF is a group. It is much easier to blame the teamwork SWF allows as being OP, rather than it is to suggest nurse players aren't as good as they think they are. If they don’t 4k as much as players on the forums suggest they should with Nurse, then they might have to admit they aren't as good as they think they are. Ego issue/skill issue, perhaps.
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In a vacuum, Nurse is fine. High skill floor, low kill rate amongst general players.
Her problem is when it comes to balancing general killer perks and effects. Perks can't be too strong on Nurse, which typically results in them being too weak on M1 killers.
Some things that could bring her down to the level of other killers without adversely affecting her power fantasy:
- Make an attack within 1s of a Blink count as a Special Attack. Common suggestion, there are issues, but if it's not 'every attack' and it has this 1s or 0.75s or whatever qualifier, it could work. Still allowing an M1 post blink attack if timed correctly.
- When stunned, her power charges reset, and she is inflicted with a short 10-15s debuff to power recharge rate so that a charge takes 4 or 5s instead of 3s. This would prevent her from getting another blink immediately after a stun, and would allow more skilled survivors (the ones usually facing the best Nurses) a decent counter to her power.
- A build-up mechanism, like Oni or Nemesis. Perhaps Nurse starts with 1 Blink charge and 4m/s walking speed. Each unique survivor hooked grants you a 'Stolen Breath' and upon getting 2 or 3 Stolen Breaths you upgrade from 1 Blink to 2 Blinks, and reduces walking speed to 3.85m/s. Add-ons could interact with this mechanism, maybe having a 3rd/4th Stolen Breath unlock the 3rd Blink charge instead of increasing power recharge time. Give 'Stolen Breaths' a UI display so you know which survivors have been 'stolen'.
- Nerf range add-ons. Green to +2m, Purple to +4m with 40% increased charge time and duration.
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" Make an attack within 1s of a Blink count as a Special Attack. Common suggestion, there are issues, but if it's not 'every attack' and it has this 1s or 0.75s or whatever qualifier, it could work. Still allowing an M1 post blink attack if timed correctly."
In fact, turning the nurse's basic attacks into special attacks would prevent her from using certain perks, which are not overly strong on her (Sloppy butcher, Jolt, K.O.), and there is no real reason to prevent her from using these perks 😉
"When stunned, her power charges reset, and she is inflicted with a short 10-15s debuff to power recharge rate so that a charge takes 4 or 5s instead of 3s. This would prevent her from getting another blink immediately after a stun, and would allow more skilled survivors (the ones usually facing the best Nurses) a decent counter to her power."
This is already the case, currently; if, for example during a blink, you manage to stop the nurse with a pallet (stun her, I mean), she will have to reload the blink(s) she consumed before being stunned. It would be very detrimental to her in some situations where the survivor is right next to a complex structure to inflict an additional malus.
" A build-up mechanism, like Oni or Nemesis. Perhaps Nurse starts with 1 Blink charge and 4m/s walking speed. Each unique survivor hooked grants you a 'Stolen Breath' and upon getting 2 or 3 Stolen Breaths you upgrade from 1 Blink to 2 Blinks, and reduces walking speed to 3.85m/s. Add-ons could interact with this mechanism, maybe having a 3rd/4th Stolen Breath unlock the 3rd Blink charge instead of increasing power recharge time. Give 'Stolen Breaths' a UI display so you know which survivors have been 'stolen'."
This would not be viable; when you see how easy it is to loop killers running at 4.4m/s around most structures, I can't even imagine what it would be like with a 4.0 killer.
Also, getting a second blink via a hook implies that "you have to hit someone twice to get a 2nd blink".
However, the very principle of the nurse is to use his first blink to move / get closer to his target, and the 2nd, to attack.
You can indeed hit a survivor with 1 blink, but it's still quite rare, even the best nurses validate their attacks with a 2nd one most of the time.
As for the range addons, they are not really a problem.
Two things need to be considered:
- first, even if the nurse uses the 2 range addons, her recharge time is the same as a nurse who uses no addons;
- if we put this in parallel with the fact that a nurse with the 2 range addons only gets value when she blinks at more than 20m, this means that when we look at the heart of the chase; at less than 20m, therefore; facing a nurse who uses the 2 range addons is the same as facing a nurse without addons.
In the same way, when facing a nurse who uses the purple/green range addon, if she is within 26/24m, it is the same as facing a nurse who does not use a range addon.
On the other hand, I completely agree that range addons will allow the nurse to patrol more effectively; but it is not the patrol that determines her dangerousness, it is her behavior during a chase.
When the range addons increased the speed of the nurse's blink, yes, it was indeed a problem; but now it is not the case anymore.
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