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For those who claim that winning is defined as pipping
Comments
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@NuclearBurrito said:
And the winrate thing?
You were saying something about how you MUST have 50% winrates and bla bla bla you know what you said
I still say it.
3k for 50 matches. I have 50% win rate. 50 survivors escaped 150 of them got killed.
In my win conditions I don't have anything beside 4k-3k so other games mean I lost. It means that they resulted in 2k 1k 0k etc. In the best case scenario all of them resulted in 2k and 100 of them got killed and 100 of them escaped.
150 vs 250 right now.
Of course, I have 4ks but they also have 1k and 0ks. It balances things out.
Survivors have close to 50% win rate.
I have close to 50% win rate.
Does this have to be in this way always? Not really. I can have 40% or 60% depending on my skill. Same goes for the survivors
3k is really important for this game and as a win condition. This is why we kinda need a free escape mechanism for survivors. Expecting 4k to be the reliable and only win condition is not healthy. It fcks up the stats too badly.
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@Delfador said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
You don't have to respond, but was curious if anything in my reply makes any difference? We can agree to disagree. Hoping for further feedback.
_Again, my only stance is on the OP "FOR THOSE WHO CLAIM THAT WINNING IS DEFINED AS PIPPING". Anything involving win rate% or beyond relating to the simple correlation between winning and pipping isn't what I am addressing. _
Oh I definitely agree with you on that pipping is not a win.
For me, as a killer, these are the wins. From best to worst.
4k, preventing survivors powering the exit gates.
3k, 1 escape with hatch, preventing survivors powering the exit gates.
4k, when survivors power the exit gate but they were too alturistic, and got themselves killed.As a killer, these are the only conditions I consider myself as winner.
That's where we branch. You think that I lost when somebody escapes via hatch but I don't think in that way. Hatch is a pity escape for the sake of the game balance, giving survivors a not so free but close to a free escape.
You can also see that I value 3k more than 4k that happened after exit gates got powered. The most difficult job in this game is to prevent gen rush as a killer. 3k before letting them power exit gates are far more difficult and valuable than getting 4k because of the mistakes survivor did at the end of the match.
Pipping is not really a win imo though. It doesn't mean anything.
Hey! Thanks for the feedback. I don't have the mind to get into the calculations of win rates, what's fair and what's not. We all hope for the developer to pull out new interesting and perhaps more balanced/fair mechanics into the game.
I can relate to your win list in it's current order. It's all we can hope for when playing as killer. When I feel like I worked hard to get a 3k, I feel encouraged to slug for the 4k. - feels like I deserve it And if I get lucky with over altruistic Survivors I will usually give the 4th the hatch. - don't have to win/4k every game, but its nice knowing I could have
I don't agree with the hatch mechanic as the base game revolves around 5 gens > open exit > escape. The mechanic of 2 gen > hatch for 1 Survivor I feel is a bit weak, but I think it's here to stay. While I agree completely about the hatch, I will feel like I have lost even if they do get the hatch.
It's okay to have differ in what we feel is a win or loss. I hate coming across like some crazy forum madman, because I can probably relate to many things players say. Though when it comes to truth and opinions those never seem to mesh well and the rest is history for now.
Thanks again for your feedback. Nice to have a decent conversation!
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@NuclearBurrito said:
@Delfador said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
You don't have to respond, but was curious if anything in my reply makes any difference? We can agree to disagree. Hoping for further feedback.
_Again, my only stance is on the OP "FOR THOSE WHO CLAIM THAT WINNING IS DEFINED AS PIPPING". Anything involving win rate% or beyond relating to the simple correlation between winning and pipping isn't what I am addressing. _
Oh I definitely agree with you on that pipping is not a win.
For me, as a killer, these are the wins. From best to worst.
4k, preventing survivors powering the exit gates.
3k, 1 escape with hatch, preventing survivors powering the exit gates.
4k, when survivors power the exit gate but they were too alturistic, and got themselves killed.As a killer, these are the only conditions I consider myself as winner.
That's where we branch. You think that I lost when somebody escapes via hatch but I don't think in that way. Hatch is a pity escape for the sake of the game balance, giving survivors a not so free but close to a free escape.
You can also see that I value 3k more than 4k that happened after exit gates got powered. The most difficult job in this game is to prevent gen rush as a killer. 3k before letting them power exit gates are far more difficult and valuable than getting 4k because of the mistakes survivor did at the end of the match.
Pipping is not really a win imo though. It doesn't mean anything.
And the winrate thing?
You were saying something about how you MUST have 50% winrates and bla bla bla you know what you said
If you can find where I said anything about win rates I would like you to point it out. I never brought up win rates or numbers of any kind.
Unless, you are responding too Delfador?
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@TrAiNwReCk said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Delfador said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
You don't have to respond, but was curious if anything in my reply makes any difference? We can agree to disagree. Hoping for further feedback.
_Again, my only stance is on the OP "FOR THOSE WHO CLAIM THAT WINNING IS DEFINED AS PIPPING". Anything involving win rate% or beyond relating to the simple correlation between winning and pipping isn't what I am addressing. _
Oh I definitely agree with you on that pipping is not a win.
For me, as a killer, these are the wins. From best to worst.
4k, preventing survivors powering the exit gates.
3k, 1 escape with hatch, preventing survivors powering the exit gates.
4k, when survivors power the exit gate but they were too alturistic, and got themselves killed.As a killer, these are the only conditions I consider myself as winner.
That's where we branch. You think that I lost when somebody escapes via hatch but I don't think in that way. Hatch is a pity escape for the sake of the game balance, giving survivors a not so free but close to a free escape.
You can also see that I value 3k more than 4k that happened after exit gates got powered. The most difficult job in this game is to prevent gen rush as a killer. 3k before letting them power exit gates are far more difficult and valuable than getting 4k because of the mistakes survivor did at the end of the match.
Pipping is not really a win imo though. It doesn't mean anything.
And the winrate thing?
You were saying something about how you MUST have 50% winrates and bla bla bla you know what you said
If you can find where I said anything about win rates I would like you to point it out. I never brought up win rates or numbers of any kind.
Unless, you are responding too Delfador?
I was responding to Delfador. You're fine
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@Delfador said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
And the winrate thing?
You were saying something about how you MUST have 50% winrates and bla bla bla you know what you said
I still say it.
3k for 50 matches. I have 50% win rate. 50 survivors escaped 150 of them got killed.
In my win conditions I don't have anything beside 4k-3k so other games mean I lost. It means that they resulted in 2k 1k 0k etc. In the best case scenario all of them resulted in 2k and 100 of them got killed and 100 of them escaped.
150 vs 250 right now.
Of course, I have 4ks but they also have 1k and 0ks. It balances things out.
Survivors have close to 50% win rate.
I have close to 50% win rate.
Does this have to be in this way always? Not really. I can have 40% or 60% depending on my skill. Same goes for the survivors
3k is really important for this game and as a win condition. This is why we kinda need a free escape mechanism for survivors. Expecting 4k to be the reliable and only win condition is not healthy. It fcks up the stats too badly.
Ok lets assume 4k is the only thing that ever counts as a win. You don't have to believe it, I do, whatever.
Pick a number between 20 and 50. Do not pick 20 or 50 or a decimal number (I mean it COULD be a decimal but it would make this really annoying)
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Ok lets assume 4k is the only thing that ever counts as a win. You don't have to believe it, I do, whatever.
Pick a number between 20 and 50. Do not pick 20 or 50 or a decimal number (I mean it COULD be a decimal but it would make this really annoying)
25
Things are getting interesting lol
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@Delfador said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
Ok lets assume 4k is the only thing that ever counts as a win. You don't have to believe it, I do, whatever.
Pick a number between 20 and 50. Do not pick 20 or 50 or a decimal number (I mean it COULD be a decimal but it would make this really annoying)
25
Things are getting interesting lol
Cool. So with a 25% 4k rate that would mean that over 100 games 25 of them have all survivors die.
In the remaining 75 games at least 1 survivor lives and 50 of them would be 3k's. The remaining 25 games would average out to 2k but could include 1 and 0k's if they also include 3k's to average it out.
Thus both sides win 25% of the time making it all perfectly even. The median game would be a 3k while the average would be a 3.2k
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The algorithm is
Winrate = 1-(average kills per game/4)
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Cool. So with a 25% 4k rate that would mean that over 100 games 25 of them have all survivors die.
In the remaining 75 games at least 1 survivor lives and 50 of them would be 3k's. The remaining 25 games would average out to 2k but could include 1 and 0k's if they also include 3k's to average it out.
Thus both sides win 25% of the time making it all perfectly even. The median game would be a 3k while the average would be a 3.2k
That is actually great. I agree with this.
The problem starts when we consider 4k as the only win condition and try to balance the game around 50% killer win, 50% survivor win. That is why I am against it. Your formula seems perfect to me.
I think we agree with each other from different perspectives.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
@Spork said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Spork said:
If I happen to do a very small amount in a game, and end up getting camped or tunneled, OR camped AND tunneled but still manage to pip or safety pip, I'm going to count it as a win.But if you were to make a win loss ratio for survivors instead of just checking if you personally enjoyed the match would you STILL count it as a win?
And if you escape but also depip would you count it as a loss?
If someone managed to escape and depip, I would personally count that as a loss, yes. But that's just my opinion.
Some Killers play rather harshly SO, gaining a pip when someone has been sweating on you would seem like an achievement to me.
What about a killer 4king but still depiping? Did they lose?
And in both cases why does the tutorial say otherwise? (both cases assuming that you consider the killer example a loss)
Managing to depip and killing all 4 Survivors wouldn't seem like an accomplishment to me. I don't think any Killer would be very thrilled about that. It'd also mean a lack of bloodpoints. A lack of currency as a reward for winning? That's a bit odd.
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It's always been like that for me regardless of what "pip system" they implemented. First time I played it was the bloodpoints, then the victory cube and now the emblem system.
It was quite clear to me regardless of the system:
Killers have to kill, only a 4k is a flawless victory.
Survivors have to escape, only if all escape it's a flawless victory.People just like to set priorities but those won't make them WIN the match. You can't just make it your goal to have fun, to get a lot of bloodpoints or even pip and then think you actually won the match. Maybe you reached your personal goal? That's great but that doesn't mean you won the match.
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@Delfador said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
Cool. So with a 25% 4k rate that would mean that over 100 games 25 of them have all survivors die.
In the remaining 75 games at least 1 survivor lives and 50 of them would be 3k's. The remaining 25 games would average out to 2k but could include 1 and 0k's if they also include 3k's to average it out.
Thus both sides win 25% of the time making it all perfectly even. The median game would be a 3k while the average would be a 3.2k
That is actually great. I agree with this.
The problem starts when we consider 4k as the only win condition and try to balance the game around 50% killer win, 50% survivor win. That is why I am against it. Your formula seems perfect to me.
I think we agree with each other from different perspectives.
Yeah... If you plug in 50 then it means you have 50% 4k's, 50% 0k's and nothing else.
So unless the snowball is insane that is never going to happen
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@NuclearBurrito said:
What about a killer 4king but still depiping? Did they lose?It's not physically possible to get a 4k and depip with emblems under normal game condition. Safety pip is possible, because you WILL get at least 6 points.
The only possible way you could DEPIP if you got a 4k would be if you pick tombstone Myers and never even hit anyone, then they gen rush you, then you tombstone them all. You might not get any Malicious/Chaser, and as long as they rushed you fast enough you won't get Gatekeeper. But literally every other case as killer you WILL at worst get a safety pip.
And even in this EXTREME example, survivors basically have to give it to you, because if they gen rush you before you get tier 3 then you can bet some will get out. So in a way, yes you deserve to lose because the enemy pitied you and let you kill them.
Also if you just hit them every once in a while and pressure them off gens even a little bit, you'll be guaranteed a safety pip if you tombstone them all. So even while this one case may be possible, it's so highly unlikely in a real situation that the only way it can happen is if the other team gives up their safety pip (win) to let you kill them for you to also depip (Iri Unbroken + Bronze Benevolence = 5 points, they need iri Lightbringer to pip which means 3 gens solo, more than likely they get silver or gold so best they can do is a safety except in extreme conditions, and b/c of this if you kill them they lose Unbroken and depip themselves).
PS. And even if we go by the term "Entity's Favor" you should depip because you killed all the survivors yourself without ever hooking them for the Entity. She would be mad at you for this. Even in the lore this is a depip.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
What about a killer 4king but still depiping? Did they lose?It's not physically possible to get a 4k and depip with emblems under normal game condition. Safety pip is possible, because you WILL get at least 6 points.
The only possible way you could DEPIP if you got a 4k would be if you pick tombstone Myers and never even hit anyone, then they gen rush you, then you tombstone them all. You might not get any Malicious/Chaser, and as long as they rushed you fast enough you won't get Gatekeeper. But literally every other case as killer you WILL at worst get a safety pip.
And even in this EXTREME example, survivors basically have to give it to you, because if they gen rush you before you get tier 3 then you can bet some will get out. So in a way, yes you deserve to lose because the enemy pitied you and let you kill them.
Also if you just hit them every once in a while and pressure them off gens even a little bit, you'll be guaranteed a safety pip if you tombstone them all. So even while this one case may be possible, it's so highly unlikely in a real situation that the only way it can happen is if the other team gives up their safety pip (win) to let you kill them for you to also depip (Iri Unbroken + Bronze Benevolence = 5 points, they need iri Lightbringer to pip which means 3 gens solo, more than likely they get silver or gold so best they can do is a safety except in extreme conditions, and b/c of this if you kill them they lose Unbroken and depip themselves).
PS. And even if we go by the term "Entity's Favor" you should depip because you killed all the survivors yourself without ever hooking them for the Entity. She would be mad at you for this. Even in the lore this is a depip.
You didn't answer the question at all.
You can slug them and have them bleed out. 4k but depip.But what if I fully sacrifice 3 Survivors and last guy takes hatch and I just safety pip.
Is it a win or a loss? For me, it's a clear win and I don't care if a poorly designed pip system tells me otherwise. My goal is to sacrifice them, I sacrificed 3 out of 4 (probably 4 if there was no hatch). Do you disagree?
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@thesuicidefox said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
What about a killer 4king but still depiping? Did they lose?It's not physically possible to get a 4k and depip with emblems under normal game condition. Safety pip is possible, because you WILL get at least 6 points.
The only possible way you could DEPIP if you got a 4k would be if you pick tombstone Myers and never even hit anyone, then they gen rush you, then you tombstone them all. You might not get any Malicious/Chaser, and as long as they rushed you fast enough you won't get Gatekeeper. But literally every other case as killer you WILL at worst get a safety pip.
And even in this EXTREME example, survivors basically have to give it to you, because if they gen rush you before you get tier 3 then you can bet some will get out. So in a way, yes you deserve to lose because the enemy pitied you and let you kill them.
Also if you just hit them every once in a while and pressure them off gens even a little bit, you'll be guaranteed a safety pip if you tombstone them all. So even while this one case may be possible, it's so highly unlikely in a real situation that the only way it can happen is if the other team gives up their safety pip (win) to let you kill them for you to also depip (Iri Unbroken + Bronze Benevolence = 5 points, they need iri Lightbringer to pip which means 3 gens solo, more than likely they get silver or gold so best they can do is a safety except in extreme conditions, and b/c of this if you kill them they lose Unbroken and depip themselves).
PS. And even if we go by the term "Entity's Favor" you should depip because you killed all the survivors yourself without ever hooking them for the Entity. She would be mad at you for this. Even in the lore this is a depip.
If you are playing as any character with an instant down then you can get only 1 point is malicious which isn't enough for bronze but also get 6 Malicious points by downing them and then having them be healed to full, possibly because you are using a slugging build. That way you can hook everyone on the last stage and all but 2 points for Malicious from hits and 4 from hooks can be removed. You can get even less points if they have unbreakable.
Basically an endgame leatherface slugging build against an altruistic team can lead to this happening relatively naturally.
And also definitions do need to hold up under extreme circumstances, because they must hold up under ALL circumstances.
Pipping doesn't even hold up against the stated wincon in all plausible circumstances, let alone all possible circumstances
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Also while it is unreasonable for it to actually happen. It is technically possible to escape but also not get an unbroken emblem.
This is because you get a point when downed. So if you get downed 900 times then you are not meeting the requirements for bronze even if you escape.
Will that ever happen to anyone? Probably not. But the fact that it CAN happen is still important
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So it's a decent conversation if they agree with you?TrAiNwReCk said:@Delfador said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
You don't have to respond, but was curious if anything in my reply makes any difference? We can agree to disagree. Hoping for further feedback.
_Again, my only stance is on the OP "FOR THOSE WHO CLAIM THAT WINNING IS DEFINED AS PIPPING". Anything involving win rate% or beyond relating to the simple correlation between winning and pipping isn't what I am addressing. _
Oh I definitely agree with you on that pipping is not a win.
For me, as a killer, these are the wins. From best to worst.
4k, preventing survivors powering the exit gates.
3k, 1 escape with hatch, preventing survivors powering the exit gates.
4k, when survivors power the exit gate but they were too alturistic, and got themselves killed.As a killer, these are the only conditions I consider myself as winner.
That's where we branch. You think that I lost when somebody escapes via hatch but I don't think in that way. Hatch is a pity escape for the sake of the game balance, giving survivors a not so free but close to a free escape.
You can also see that I value 3k more than 4k that happened after exit gates got powered. The most difficult job in this game is to prevent gen rush as a killer. 3k before letting them power exit gates are far more difficult and valuable than getting 4k because of the mistakes survivor did at the end of the match.
Pipping is not really a win imo though. It doesn't mean anything.
Hey! Thanks for the feedback. I don't have the mind to get into the calculations of win rates, what's fair and what's not. We all hope for the developer to pull out new interesting and perhaps more balanced/fair mechanics into the game.
I can relate to your win list in it's current order. It's all we can hope for when playing as killer. When I feel like I worked hard to get a 3k, I feel encouraged to slug for the 4k. - feels like I deserve it And if I get lucky with over altruistic Survivors I will usually give the 4th the hatch. - don't have to win/4k every game, but its nice knowing I could have
I don't agree with the hatch mechanic as the base game revolves around 5 gens > open exit > escape. The mechanic of 2 gen > hatch for 1 Survivor I feel is a bit weak, but I think it's here to stay. While I agree completely about the hatch, I will feel like I have lost even if they do get the hatch.
It's okay to have differ in what we feel is a win or loss. I hate coming across like some crazy forum madman, because I can probably relate to many things players say. Though when it comes to truth and opinions those never seem to mesh well and the rest is history for now.
Thanks again for your feedback. Nice to have a decent conversation!
You quoted the same powerbats comment like 3 different times to rail on him because he called you out and didnt agree?
😆 [1] LOL!2 -
If you play nice as a killer, as in no tunneling no camping and no slugging you will not pip. Because the games go to fast for that. I play games where i have 26k+ bloodpoints and 1 kill i get a black pip.
Yes if ppl , who think rank matters, wanna rank up. they will need to camp, slug and tunnel. Simple as that.
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The score at the end says everything that needs to be said.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
The score at the end says everything that needs to be said.no it doesn't. That score is easily abused
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@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
The score at the end says everything that needs to be said.no it doesn't. That score is easily abused
Nope. You don't get score by doing nothing. It is a representation of everything you did in game which serves much more in demonstrating skill than anything else. Ranks mean even less than the score with the exception of a fresh level 20 that just bought the game.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
The score at the end says everything that needs to be said.no it doesn't. That score is easily abused
Nope. You don't get score by doing nothing. It is a representation of everything you did in game which serves much more in demonstrating skill than anything else. Ranks mean even less than the score with the exception of a fresh level 20 that just bought the game.
You can score by doing arbitrary tasks an indeterminate amount of times which may or may not actually progress you towards victory.
Sprint for 2 seconds in the killers terror radius? You get points
Heal someone right in front of the hook and then leave before finishing? You get points
Hook farm someone? You get pointsect ect ect. Points are meaningless because grinding them is too easy and too disconnected from the actual goals of the game
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@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
The score at the end says everything that needs to be said.no it doesn't. That score is easily abused
Nope. You don't get score by doing nothing. It is a representation of everything you did in game which serves much more in demonstrating skill than anything else. Ranks mean even less than the score with the exception of a fresh level 20 that just bought the game.
You can score by doing arbitrary tasks an indeterminate amount of times which may or may not actually progress you towards victory.
Sprint for 2 seconds in the killers terror radius? You get points
Heal someone right in front of the hook and then leave before finishing? You get points
Hook farm someone? You get pointsect ect ect. Points are meaningless because grinding them is too easy and too disconnected from the actual goals of the game
Those are all actions and show involvement in the match. Your personal opinion on what is or isn't important doesn't matter.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
The score at the end says everything that needs to be said.no it doesn't. That score is easily abused
Nope. You don't get score by doing nothing. It is a representation of everything you did in game which serves much more in demonstrating skill than anything else. Ranks mean even less than the score with the exception of a fresh level 20 that just bought the game.
You can score by doing arbitrary tasks an indeterminate amount of times which may or may not actually progress you towards victory.
Sprint for 2 seconds in the killers terror radius? You get points
Heal someone right in front of the hook and then leave before finishing? You get points
Hook farm someone? You get pointsect ect ect. Points are meaningless because grinding them is too easy and too disconnected from the actual goals of the game
Those are all actions and show involvement in the match. Your personal opinion on what is or isn't important doesn't matter.
Yes but if they progress towards victory or not DOES matter. You can run in circles and partial heal someone all day and be no closer to escaping the trial. Which is the thing the game establishes as the survivors goal
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@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
The score at the end says everything that needs to be said.no it doesn't. That score is easily abused
Nope. You don't get score by doing nothing. It is a representation of everything you did in game which serves much more in demonstrating skill than anything else. Ranks mean even less than the score with the exception of a fresh level 20 that just bought the game.
You can score by doing arbitrary tasks an indeterminate amount of times which may or may not actually progress you towards victory.
Sprint for 2 seconds in the killers terror radius? You get points
Heal someone right in front of the hook and then leave before finishing? You get points
Hook farm someone? You get pointsect ect ect. Points are meaningless because grinding them is too easy and too disconnected from the actual goals of the game
Those are all actions and show involvement in the match. Your personal opinion on what is or isn't important doesn't matter.
Yes but if they progress towards victory or not DOES matter. You can run in circles and partial heal someone all day and be no closer to escaping the trial. Which is the thing the game establishes as the survivors goal
They do progress towards victory. While those things are occurring work is being done towards the victory. Do you believe you sat on a gen unhindered because you are skilled or was it because everyone else was interacting with the killer?
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
The score at the end says everything that needs to be said.no it doesn't. That score is easily abused
Nope. You don't get score by doing nothing. It is a representation of everything you did in game which serves much more in demonstrating skill than anything else. Ranks mean even less than the score with the exception of a fresh level 20 that just bought the game.
You can score by doing arbitrary tasks an indeterminate amount of times which may or may not actually progress you towards victory.
Sprint for 2 seconds in the killers terror radius? You get points
Heal someone right in front of the hook and then leave before finishing? You get points
Hook farm someone? You get pointsect ect ect. Points are meaningless because grinding them is too easy and too disconnected from the actual goals of the game
Those are all actions and show involvement in the match. Your personal opinion on what is or isn't important doesn't matter.
Yes but if they progress towards victory or not DOES matter. You can run in circles and partial heal someone all day and be no closer to escaping the trial. Which is the thing the game establishes as the survivors goal
They do progress towards victory. While those things are occurring work is being done towards the victory. Do you believe you sat on a gen unhindered because you are skilled or was it because everyone else was interacting with the killer?
Running in circles in the general area of the killer (you don't get points for doing it in a chase remember) is in no way actually interacting with the killer. It just means you aren't doing a gen AND you aren't in a chase AND you aren't even bothering to hide at the very least in order to survive.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
The score at the end says everything that needs to be said.no it doesn't. That score is easily abused
Nope. You don't get score by doing nothing. It is a representation of everything you did in game which serves much more in demonstrating skill than anything else. Ranks mean even less than the score with the exception of a fresh level 20 that just bought the game.
You can score by doing arbitrary tasks an indeterminate amount of times which may or may not actually progress you towards victory.
Sprint for 2 seconds in the killers terror radius? You get points
Heal someone right in front of the hook and then leave before finishing? You get points
Hook farm someone? You get pointsect ect ect. Points are meaningless because grinding them is too easy and too disconnected from the actual goals of the game
Those are all actions and show involvement in the match. Your personal opinion on what is or isn't important doesn't matter.
Yes but if they progress towards victory or not DOES matter. You can run in circles and partial heal someone all day and be no closer to escaping the trial. Which is the thing the game establishes as the survivors goal
They do progress towards victory. While those things are occurring work is being done towards the victory. Do you believe you sat on a gen unhindered because you are skilled or was it because everyone else was interacting with the killer?
Running in circles in the general area of the killer (you don't get points for doing it in a chase remember) is in no way actually interacting with the killer. It just means you aren't doing a gen AND you aren't in a chase AND you aren't even bothering to hide at the very least in order to survive.
You're repeating the same rhetoric and it is no more true than three responses ago. It's just you superimposing your actions and playstyle as meaningful while others being less so. Consider this. A person can reach rank 1 by doing nothing but hiding all match, without helping at all, and exiting out of the gate or hatch. They can equip perks to make doing this almost 99% successful.
They are not better, they are not rank 1, and they most certainly didn't win. Not to mention they will have invested the same amount of time and have less BP to show for it.
The only thing we have to demonstrate talent and skill in this game is score. Whether they do gens or own the killer they are demonstrating talent for accomplishing what the game wants you to accomplish. No one cares what Nuclearburrito thinks matters but Nuclearburrito. I don't mean to sound harsh but it's simply truth.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
The score at the end says everything that needs to be said.no it doesn't. That score is easily abused
Nope. You don't get score by doing nothing. It is a representation of everything you did in game which serves much more in demonstrating skill than anything else. Ranks mean even less than the score with the exception of a fresh level 20 that just bought the game.
You can score by doing arbitrary tasks an indeterminate amount of times which may or may not actually progress you towards victory.
Sprint for 2 seconds in the killers terror radius? You get points
Heal someone right in front of the hook and then leave before finishing? You get points
Hook farm someone? You get pointsect ect ect. Points are meaningless because grinding them is too easy and too disconnected from the actual goals of the game
Those are all actions and show involvement in the match. Your personal opinion on what is or isn't important doesn't matter.
Yes but if they progress towards victory or not DOES matter. You can run in circles and partial heal someone all day and be no closer to escaping the trial. Which is the thing the game establishes as the survivors goal
They do progress towards victory. While those things are occurring work is being done towards the victory. Do you believe you sat on a gen unhindered because you are skilled or was it because everyone else was interacting with the killer?
Running in circles in the general area of the killer (you don't get points for doing it in a chase remember) is in no way actually interacting with the killer. It just means you aren't doing a gen AND you aren't in a chase AND you aren't even bothering to hide at the very least in order to survive.
You're repeating the same rhetoric and it is no more true than three responses ago. It's just you superimposing your actions and playstyle as meaningful while others being less so. Consider this. A person can reach rank 1 by doing nothing but hiding all match, without helping at all, and exiting out of the gate or hatch. They can equip perks to make doing this almost 99% successful.
They are not better, they are not rank 1 and they most certainly didn't win.
If you escape you win. Deserved or not. The game has defined winning as such. Also you contradicted yourself, if they reached rank 1 then they are rank 1
Stop acting like this is just my opinion, the game literally says that the survivors goal is to escape, that's not me stating my option but quoting where the game defines the objective of the game
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@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
The score at the end says everything that needs to be said.no it doesn't. That score is easily abused
Nope. You don't get score by doing nothing. It is a representation of everything you did in game which serves much more in demonstrating skill than anything else. Ranks mean even less than the score with the exception of a fresh level 20 that just bought the game.
You can score by doing arbitrary tasks an indeterminate amount of times which may or may not actually progress you towards victory.
Sprint for 2 seconds in the killers terror radius? You get points
Heal someone right in front of the hook and then leave before finishing? You get points
Hook farm someone? You get pointsect ect ect. Points are meaningless because grinding them is too easy and too disconnected from the actual goals of the game
Those are all actions and show involvement in the match. Your personal opinion on what is or isn't important doesn't matter.
Yes but if they progress towards victory or not DOES matter. You can run in circles and partial heal someone all day and be no closer to escaping the trial. Which is the thing the game establishes as the survivors goal
They do progress towards victory. While those things are occurring work is being done towards the victory. Do you believe you sat on a gen unhindered because you are skilled or was it because everyone else was interacting with the killer?
Running in circles in the general area of the killer (you don't get points for doing it in a chase remember) is in no way actually interacting with the killer. It just means you aren't doing a gen AND you aren't in a chase AND you aren't even bothering to hide at the very least in order to survive.
You're repeating the same rhetoric and it is no more true than three responses ago. It's just you superimposing your actions and playstyle as meaningful while others being less so. Consider this. A person can reach rank 1 by doing nothing but hiding all match, without helping at all, and exiting out of the gate or hatch. They can equip perks to make doing this almost 99% successful.
They are not better, they are not rank 1 and they most certainly didn't win.
If you escape you win. Deserved or not. The game has defined winning as such. Also you contradicted yourself, if they reached rank 1 then they are rank 1
Stop acting like this is just my opinion, the game literally says that the survivors goal is to escape, that's not me stating my option but quoting where the game defines the objective of the game
Sorry no. You can think that but just escaping is as simple as equipping anti-tracking perks and staying immersed while others secure your escape. You didn't win anything.
I'm not acting like its your opinion, I'm telling you directly and implicitly it is your opinion.
The game has defined score as winning which is why you have it displayed at the end of the match. The emblem system defines ranking up. If escape was all that mattered it would state Escaped! instead of the score and you would rank up just for escaping.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
The score at the end says everything that needs to be said.no it doesn't. That score is easily abused
Nope. You don't get score by doing nothing. It is a representation of everything you did in game which serves much more in demonstrating skill than anything else. Ranks mean even less than the score with the exception of a fresh level 20 that just bought the game.
You can score by doing arbitrary tasks an indeterminate amount of times which may or may not actually progress you towards victory.
Sprint for 2 seconds in the killers terror radius? You get points
Heal someone right in front of the hook and then leave before finishing? You get points
Hook farm someone? You get pointsect ect ect. Points are meaningless because grinding them is too easy and too disconnected from the actual goals of the game
Those are all actions and show involvement in the match. Your personal opinion on what is or isn't important doesn't matter.
Yes but if they progress towards victory or not DOES matter. You can run in circles and partial heal someone all day and be no closer to escaping the trial. Which is the thing the game establishes as the survivors goal
They do progress towards victory. While those things are occurring work is being done towards the victory. Do you believe you sat on a gen unhindered because you are skilled or was it because everyone else was interacting with the killer?
Running in circles in the general area of the killer (you don't get points for doing it in a chase remember) is in no way actually interacting with the killer. It just means you aren't doing a gen AND you aren't in a chase AND you aren't even bothering to hide at the very least in order to survive.
You're repeating the same rhetoric and it is no more true than three responses ago. It's just you superimposing your actions and playstyle as meaningful while others being less so. Consider this. A person can reach rank 1 by doing nothing but hiding all match, without helping at all, and exiting out of the gate or hatch. They can equip perks to make doing this almost 99% successful.
They are not better, they are not rank 1 and they most certainly didn't win.
If you escape you win. Deserved or not. The game has defined winning as such. Also you contradicted yourself, if they reached rank 1 then they are rank 1
Stop acting like this is just my opinion, the game literally says that the survivors goal is to escape, that's not me stating my option but quoting where the game defines the objective of the game
Sorry no. You can think that but just escaping is as simple as equipping anti track perks and staying immersed while others secure your escape. You didn't win anything.
I'm not acting like its your opinion, I'm telling you directly and implicitly it is your opinion.
Got it. Winning is as simple as equipping anti track perks and staying immersed while others secure your escape.
Ok fine stop telling me that it is my opinion when it clearly isn't.
o·pin·ion
/əˈpinyən/Submit
noun
noun: opinion; plural noun: opinions
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"I'm writing to voice my opinion on an issue of great importance"
synonyms: belief, judgment, thought(s), school of thought, thinking, way of thinking, mind, point of view, view, viewpoint, outlook, angle, slant, side, attitude, stance, perspective, position, standpoint; MoreFact: Win conditions in a game are defined by the game
Fact: Dead by daylight defines a win for a survivor as escaping the trial. This definition is stated in the tutorial I posted screenshots up
Conclusion: If you escape the trial as a survivor you win that game of dead by daylightAt no point was a judgement that wasn't based on a fact used
Thus this is not an opinion but rather a fact and logic based proof.
If you want to show that it is wrong then you will need to show that either one of my premises are false or that I have committed a fallacy in which case you need to say where and which one
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"The game has defined score as winning"
Please post a screenshot showing where the game gives this definition
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Unhook farming a survivor just to have them instantly re hooked DOES NOT help the match. It gives you points for lowering your odds as a group.Tucking_Friggered said:@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@NuclearBurrito said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
The score at the end says everything that needs to be said.no it doesn't. That score is easily abused
Nope. You don't get score by doing nothing. It is a representation of everything you did in game which serves much more in demonstrating skill than anything else. Ranks mean even less than the score with the exception of a fresh level 20 that just bought the game.
You can score by doing arbitrary tasks an indeterminate amount of times which may or may not actually progress you towards victory.
Sprint for 2 seconds in the killers terror radius? You get points
Heal someone right in front of the hook and then leave before finishing? You get points
Hook farm someone? You get pointsect ect ect. Points are meaningless because grinding them is too easy and too disconnected from the actual goals of the game
Those are all actions and show involvement in the match. Your personal opinion on what is or isn't important doesn't matter.
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Also. That number at the end isn't even called score. It represents how much BP you gain and is directly effected by perks such as WGLF and BBQC0
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And again. Many games use something besides winning as a metric for ranking. Overwatch is a very popular example at lower ranks. So demonstrating that something = ranking (which BP gain doesn't fyi) does not prove that it is winning and vice versa
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