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Free Insidious With Snowmen
If killers are getting free Insidious by using a snowman, why are survivors not getting free old Iron Will?
If killers are allowed to go completely silent, why aren’t survivors?
Comments
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Sure, why not.
Doubt it would get implemented in time, though.
9 -
Shrug. It's a bit of an overcompensation after last year, where survivors not only had a free health state, but snowmen also completely broke several killer's powers.
Hopefully next year will be a bit more balanced.
6 -
And also there was the free iron will bug.
3 -
I haven't seen killers use snowmen for insidious so it hardly matters that they do
2 -
It's not exactly free insidious
Insidious allows you to use your power right away
In the snowman you need to go through the attack cooldown before you can.
You can pretty much always get the unhook against someone who tries to camp with snowman
4 -
I was wondering if someone would start complaining about snowmen being unbalanced in the opposite direction this year, I'm surprised it took this long.
Regardless, I don't think that's necessarily required, but it would help emphasise the stealth element of the snowmen. Maybe next year!
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Eh. This is more like going from a '10' one way to a '2' the other way.
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In terms of being unbalanced? Nah, it went from a 2 to a 0. The snowmen weren't unbalanced last year save for the interactions with Twins and Ghostface, and they're not unbalanced at all this year.
2 -
They also wrecked Myers...and unless I'm mistaken, they reset Trickster laceration?
That's 3, possibly 4 entire killers countered. 10.
2 -
How was survivors getting a free health state balanced?
3 -
Myers couldn't stalk through them but was otherwise unaffected, he'd just smack them. Trickster laceration may be reset, but his knives also broke the snowmen entirely iirc so he was actually one of the better killers to play if you wanted to completely ignore them.
Even if it were four, more than four killers completely invalidated the snowmen entirely. Even if we were to assume the snowmen actually functioned as a third health state (as opposed to what they were, a highly situational and marginally useful protection hit), the amount of killers that completely circumvented them would've made them a mild annoyance at best. A three or four, not a ten.
They weren't actually a problem last year, people overreacted. Still, for the record, this year is better, since there were edge cases that prevented the snowmen from their intended purpose.
1 -
"yeah I know it's kind of unfair now, but it was really unfair a year ago so it's ok!"
How about the devs just think things through before implementing so they're fair for every one, every time?
7 -
You ask too much of BHVR. Never forget The Twins release. Never.
2 -
Eh. We'll have to agree to disagree here. I found them crippling on Myers and Trickster against savvy teams. Let's just say...I played a lot of Doctor during the event.
It's very close to fair now. If you don't know where the killer is, and there's a snowman hugging the hook, assume it's them and treat it like any other camper, just without their power.
3 -
I found canibal to be fun during that event. People forget that he can catch survivors through their sprint if he does it right.
0 -
Why are you trying to skirt around the fact that they were a free health state? They were more than a mild annoyance. It was basically another dead hard to extend the chase if there was a snowman near a loop.
4 -
I'm not trying to skirt around anything, they just weren't a free health state.
You could be hit while entering the snowmen, and you got extremely little distance after being hit out of one due to a lack of a speed boost. Even less distance if the snowman was struck from the front. I played during that event, and I remember that this was all overblown overreaction at the time, too.
It's been a year. It's time to let it go.
2 -
Its not a free health state….? If you were in the snowman…. And you got hit… DID YOU, OR DID YOU NOT, lose a health state? You are most definitely skirting.
Nothing to let go Lmaoo, I could care less about the snowman. I play the game the same way regardless and survivors will stay mad.
Good day
1 -
They were and they weren't.
If you timed them right, especially against certain killers, they could definitely act as a third health state - but without the speed boost.
The problem was that, on top of DH, you could use them to extend already obnoxious chases even further.
They could also backfire, or could be hard countered by other killers.
It was just a...mess of an event, all told.
3 -
The heck do survivor players have to do with this?
Anyway, IF you were fully in the snowman, you did not lose a health state... until about five seconds later when the killer turns around and hits you again, because you got no distance and the killer only had to wait for their weapon wipe to be done. Not a third health state a la Dead Hard, but much more like a protection hit if you were standing still when the teammate was hit.
Add on to that the fact that you need a pretty noticeable head start to be fully in the snowman before the killer could hit you, and the things were damn near useless in chase.
3 -
You just said, “you did not lose a health state”. You take a hit from the killer, and do not lose a heath state. Sounds pretty free to me. I rest my case. 😂😂
4 -
You're really stretching here to pretend like snowmen weren't an additional health state. They absolutely were. If you think the weapon wiping animation isn't enough to get to a fresh loop after connecting with a snowman you're delusional.
3 -
All I can say is that some people here have a very different memory of the old event than I do. I played killer, almost exclusively at that point, and I extremely rarely saw a snowman even be useful for survivors, let alone enough value to warrant these kinds of comments.
Even in theory, snowmen weren't unbalanced without ignoring key aspects of them.
2 -
Oh, it's you. You absolutely have to change your avatar back.
I only saw it toward the end of the event, after people figured out that snowmen were actually quite useful to buy time. It's hardly theory when it was reality.
1 -
Iron will seems like a good idea on paper, but I think it would cause bigger issues. A slow, insidious killer is not that big a deal. Silent injured survivors could definitely hold a game hostage towards the end. I've already had a few games that got dragged out to 30-40 minute slogs because healthy survivors wanna troll.
1 -
Aw, why? I like Jill.
Even towards the end, people would struggle to make use of a mechanic that didn't really provide meaningful value. The most use anyone got out of it was if a snowman spawned directly next to a window or pallet, and even then, because of the time investment they'd almost certainly have been able to reach that loop anyway if they'd just kept running.
Though again, just so we're all on the same page: This year's version is better. The snowmen weren't good at taking hits so removing that entirely to push people towards their intended uses is a smart move, and eliminates the handful of edge cases where there actually was a balance problem, like Twins and Ghostface. For that reason, I'd even support OP's suggestion of an Iron Will effect for next year!
0 -
Hey, that's why anecdotal evidence in isolation is only so useful in a discussion.
1 -
Snowman is trash, the time to get out of snowman as killer is like 5 sec its too long and survivor would get unhook and escape. not to mention if they gen rush its over u just lose the game
0 -
its not going to be around too much longer to really make a difference
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Yeah I was kind of bummed to realize the snowman didn't silence my injured noises
0 -
Lol if you can’t tell the killer is using a snowman that’s more of a you problem lol..
I have not seen a game yet where a killers has bin able to use of a snowman, seen them try the fact they can only M1 out screws them over more then it helps
1 -
BS,the snowmen were an extra health state and anybody who played the event knows it.If they were injured they would hop in a snowman take another hit,weapon wipe and be gone.Now that killers get something from event survivors are about to crap themselves.
1 -
they also get slowed pretty tremendously, snowman movespeed is slower than survivor running speed
1 -
Because that would let you immediately hide from any chase.
A killer is shuffling around like a grandmother needing to pee at 2AM. He ain't catching anyone like that. And if a killer managed to shuffle his way ALL the way to the gen you are working on while you watch this white construct slowly inch towards you, you kinda deserve that.
2 -
snowmen already hide auras.
killers move slow in the snowmen. Is it really an issue?
1 -
people will complain about everything
1 -
Snowmen should silent grunting, thats all.
Killer cant use power/grab. They cant see Gen and have slow speed. You should be able to recognize them from distance. Only Snowman killer would move toward you
0 -
Survivors being survivors,everything is about them!Killers are npc.
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Probably because the snowmen slow the killer down to a snail's pace. It's kinda compensation for that, I'm assuming.
0 -
Do some people really complain that snowmen make killers undetectable? 🤣
Forgetting that a killer who is hidden in a snowman no longer sees auras?
Forgetting that a killer who is hidden in a snowman moves as fast as a Claudette Morel P3 in a bush?
Forgetting that a killer who is hidden in a snowman can literally do nothing offensive UNLESS he is stuck to a survivor?
Forgetting that a survivor can easily check if a snowman is "empty" by sneaking in from behind, and checking if the game gives him the option to go inside?
Forgetting that as soon as the survivors are in vocal, the snowman becomes a simple entertainment for them?
Are people really complaining about ..... THAT ? 🤣
Are players really complaining about a funny and original game mechanic that brings a touch of unpredictability to a game that hasn't been a horror game at all for a long time?
Please tell me that the players who complain about the snowmen are players who are new to the game, and who are just confused by this new mechanic!
Please don't tell me that they are not ALSO experienced players who are completely unable to adapt to the slightest little thing that requires them to think a little bit more than usual!
1 -
We are not bringing that back up. Just like first release Legion
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Isn't it a bit ironic that you say the survivors are going to cram themselves when you're out here reacting this strongly to a mere suggestion. Not even complaining, just a suggestion
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I played with the "free health state". Wasnt really that helpful. In a snowman you're slower and incapacitated. If you jumped in snowman mid chase you had to be lucky enough to complete the full animation of getting in or it wasnt a free health state. It would be basically equivalent now to letting the killer hit you as you stand still but you dont get injured and no speed bonus, why would you do that? you wouldn't in most scenarios.
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No it’s complaining.That’s exactly what survivors are doing.
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Again with the survivors when you're complaining yourself. This community has such an annoying us v. them mentality for no reason
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