So tired of the Knight 3 gen strat
Every time now, the same thing when I see this killer I know they are just going to camp a 3 gen and the match turns into a war of attrition that they will ultimately win as they all run the usual Eruption/Call of Brine based build.
We are 'unsportsmanlike' if we don't want to play those matches but what are we to do here? This throws you into a drawn out lose/lose scenario where I guess we are supposed to just humour the killer for an hour long stalemate?
I cant understand the mentality of people who play match after match doing this...
Comments
-
So survivors speed for gens must be cut harder
1 -
Gens are the most boring aspect of the game and making them last longer would be as much fun as making slugging meta.
Either way, that has nothing to do with the fact this strategy being used is broken and unbeatable. There is no what about-ism that can excuse that.
3 -
And you think people still won’t use 3gens and gen perks if the gen speeds were nerfed again?
10 -
"If a killer loses all five gens, he's lost the game."
"It's unfair if a killer defends a 3 gen."
Hmmmm.
11 -
Not quite as simplified as that. The argument is that gen kick regression is overtuned to the point that breaking a strong 3 gen is too difficult if the killer is remotely competent. It's turning games into marathons on a regular basis, and that shouldn't be a thing.
18 -
But that's not what is being said at all, and you know that.
A playstyle which will obviously be patched out in the future is being used to delay games and is completely against the spirit of the game. I had a game a few days ago, facing this exact strategy. The game lasted 45 minutes. 45 minutes of the killer never commiting to a chase.
And since that YouTube video of the hour long match came out it is going to happen more than it is now.
Can you say that keeps the spirit of the game?
It reminds me of how goalkeepers in soccer used to be able to pick up balls passed back to them with the player's foot. So some teams would just do that and there was nothing the other team could do.
Are you be the type of person who would say that is fine?
7 -
As Edgar already said...
This is creating a scenario for solo queue players that is unwinnable and honestly you are better off to just give up so you can move on to a fun match where you are not being forced into a tedious stalemate.
I play a lot of killer too and I see how often survivors 3 gen themselves without any influence from me (they just choose the safest gens to do first), that is not an issue when I end up in a situation where I have no choice but to defend a 3 gen.
But these scummy players are creating a scenario where they just camp 3 gens and no matter what survivors do they cannot break the obvious inevitable 3 gen.
Not sure how you can possibly defend this?!
12 -
So what is the actual “solution” being proposed here? Nerfing perks or making 3 gens harder to defend will just change the target from camping gens back to camping you 😂.
3 -
I'm less defending it and adding it to the long, long, long, long, long list of things Killers shouldn't be allowed to do.
3 -
This is really just what about-ism though and doesn't take away from the fact this is broken and is being exploited fully by unethical people.
We all know there is a long list in the survivors rule book for killers that can be dismissed as a joke. But turning the game into an automatic stalemate that has no win condition other than giving up or going a full hour is indefensible.
7 -
Camping killers lose matches if the survivors are smart, this is only the tactic of the desperate or the incompetent.
This 3 gen lock strategy is an unwinnable tactic that creates a situation where the match cannot progress and your only option is to give up or stubbornly wait out an hour before you auto lose anyway.
4 -
It's not whataboutism.
Whataboutism would be if I were to say "Yeah, but survivors do the same thing by immersing for an hour and refusing to do gens".
I'm just straight up sighing as the naughty list has now reached the floor and rolled under the couch.
3 -
I just think if BHVR would spread the gens out a little more on certain maps it would be ok, theres a few maps I could defend the argument on that 3 genning can be broken because of the design and the gen spawn layout, one example is azarovs resting place or however it's spelled, the shape of the map and the way the gens spawn make it too easy because I can pick the side with the most gens and just patrol that one side and not even worry about losing because there's always one side with four gens that are close and it's a bone shaped map so essentially you can stall the game at 2 gens and force them into bad scenarios from there and certain killer abilities amplify this problem, there's a reason why BHVR threatens to ban people over doc camping a 3 gen and just inducing madness and it's not because 3 genning isn't strong it's because the layout plus the killer ability is broken sometimes and you can use that to hold a game hostage instead of actually killing the survivors
3 -
I don't know how you can add this to any valid list though? It is creating an unwinnable strategy that breaks the game. It is an essentially an exploit and not simply a valid strategy that survivors don't like
2 -
The survivors couldn't finish the gens before the match automatically ended after an hour despite them trying. Do really think that this is a healthy strategy for the game?
9 -
I once had a match as Vommy Mommy and the Survivors made the 3 Gen mistake quite early and I defended it....I would chase them off but when I saw they were trying to lead me to a Dead Zone I went right back. I won't go into a mindless chase when I know there's 2-3 other survivors waiting for me to leave......
.....This was before they lowered the max match time and the match lasted 75 mins.....this was also before the meta shake up and I only used 1 Gen slowdown perk.
Yes the 3-Gen is a strong strat but not unbeatable. The mistake those survivors did was they only work d on any of the gens as a single person and never split it up or doubled up do I could easily hold them off.
2 -
This is not a Knight problem, its a perk problem. You could do this with any high mobility killer like Blight, Billy, Nurse and even Wraith.
2 -
Bring brand new part it can solve the problem easy.
0 -
"Do you really think this is a healthy strategy for the game?" is something I've heard about everything from Basement Bubba to Eruption in the last two weeks alone.
1 -
"there's a reason why BHVR threatens to ban people over doc camping a 3 gen and just inducing madness"
Let's be clear on this: I am NOT defending players who use the NWTH / Call of brine / Eruption / Overcharge build on the knight (or any killer for that matter) to camp a 3-gen from the start of the game without ever taking a chase.
I'm just wondering about what you just said: what elements could BHVR bring forward to issue this kind of ban?
Because from the killer's point of view, he was just applying an optimal defense strategy.
I agree that this kind of game is more than annoying to live, but how to define the limit between the voluntarily abusive and the valid strategy? At what point can we consider that the player is abusing?
And at what point does a player who protects a zone go from being allowed to being forbidden? How can we define these aspects?
Suppose a survivor wants to chase the killer to a location, and the killer stops following him because he sees that the survivor is trying to chase him away from the generators: does this become punishable behavior? Does this make dropping chase a prohibited behavior?
Again, I am NOT defending the 3-gen knight build's camping at all, I was just wondering.
2 -
A Basement Bubba match is unfun, but over in 10 minutes, so that hardly compares, but congratulations for dodging the point.
It is bannable for two survivors to hide without progressing the gens and a Doc Player could be banned if they refused to chase and just kept survs in tier 3, unnable to progress the game, so BHVR has made it clear in the past, that there is a point at which they consider dragging a game out to be bad, so I don't see why the dragging out strategy the Knight in the Video used should stay unadressed.
4 -
You don't understand the premise here, please ensure you at least understand what we are talking about before making dismissive and pointless replies. Thank you
7 -
To reiterate, I have no issue if survivors organically 3 gen themselves or stupidly don't split gens on obvious 3 gen maps like Azarov's or Suffocation Pit etc. However as you probably realise, that is not what this strat involves.
If survivors are stupid enough to 3 gen themselves then so be it, my solo team mates do it all the time and I am often the poor sucker who goes for the riskier middle gen early on to avoid this. But a killer using their power and broken perks to camp a 3 gen from the start of the match is broken. There should never be a single strat that creats an unwinnable scenario
2 -
Because the difference in the Doc refusing to chase to keep everyone in t3 or Survivors hiding not doing Gens and what the Knight is doing or any Killer who has a 3-Gen lock is that defending Gens is part of their objective. They can't punish a player who won't take the bait and be dragged away into a dead zone by a Survivor knowing there are other Survivors waiting to pounce.
It's a sad truth so the only recourse is to look at the strategy of the perk combos in question....the easiest to help break it is to remove the status effect from Eruption. That would actually help out a lot tbh and make CoB and Overcharge manageable.
1 -
You missed the point inwas making it's not a unwinnable strat just a very difficult strat to break if the Survivors don't realize it before the trap is sprung.
I have broken 3-Gen locks with fellow Survivors...it's not easy I will grant you that because if just one person makes a mistake then it's all over.....but it does takes at least 2 players to help break it.
0 -
This is where 3 gens become an issue especially on maps like suffocation pit or asarov’s where they are trivial to set up
Knight can’t even be realistically buffed until this is changed as well so it’s negatively affecting him
3 -
I would argue in certain gen configs it is unwinnable. I had it today on Haddonfield where there was the usual external gen outside Myers house, one in the same house and one in the garden beside it. The Knight just set up shop there and every attempt to lead them away failed as they just returned to the 3 gen.
I had the same on RPD where they did exactly the same thing with mid map as they got lucky with a gen spawn in the office and two in mid. This was completely unwinnable as even though we could escape and heal as he would not chase, we obviously lost any progress to COB and Eruption if he go downs (which he struggled to do).
3 -
I'm assuming you did not watch the video, he defended the 3 gen right from the start (brought a map offering aswell because dead dawk is notorious for its 3 gen spawns), all 4 survivors were still alive when only one gen was left, but they still couldn't get the gen done. Usually I would agree with you that survs should try to prevent the 3 gen situation before it happens but when the Killer is protecting the 3 gens right from the start, I don't see the difference in breaking the 3 gens first or finishing the other gens first, as long as no survivor is dead at this point (except for the option of using potential energy, but no one was playing it in this match.)
Sure, a potential energy could have helped, or maybe if the survs were a 4 man and a bit more coordinated, but they weren't (they did try to split up and focus on two gens though, so it's not like they were playing without a strategy). But by that same logic you could excuse hiding survs because a Killer could bring whispers or play doc.
7 -
This is why as soon as we spawn in, we identify 3 gen areas and break them up asap. We don’t allow 3 gens to happen.
0 -
It is holding the game hostage. At some point the game needs to progress. Survivors have to do Gens and try to finish them, even if that means that they might die in the process. And if Survivors are doing that, the Killer has to commit to a chase at some point, because otherwise, THEY are not progressing the game. And yes, even if this means that they might lose the last Gen.
The Objective for the Killer is to kill all Survivors. And prolonging the game to the Time LImit to achieve this is not the way to go.
So yeah, a Killer refusing to try to kill the Survivors to just regress 3 Gens all the time is holding the game hostage, completely regardless if they decide to do that later or plan it from the start. The same like Suvivors are holding the game hostage if they dont try to do Gens.
At some point, both sides have to risk losing in order to progress the game.
11 -
You don't understand what his happening here.
The killer is identifying 3 gens from the start and defending them without leaving the area for pretty much the entire match. This isn't survivors mindlessly rushing gens as so often happens... I have no issue with that as survivors doing the safe gens first without splitting them is on them.
3 -
I agree this is holding the game hostage but the trouble is how do BHVR police that?
But you identify the very issue I and many others are facing in that the killer will not allow the game to progress, they will not commit to any chases that take them outside of the 3 gen they identify at the start of the match.
You cant even rush a middle gen before that as survivor as the killer has the advantage of seeing gen auras from the start
0 -
If I have a three gen as doc and don't want the survivor to complete them and shock them to prevent them from working on the gens, am I not using the most effective tool to stop the survivor from doing the gens and ensure my own win? (I'm not sure if shocking with the new doc would be as effective as it was on old doc, but this is besides the point). Or if there are only two survivors and one gen left but the Killer has a 3 gen and is patrolling it, would it not be a smart move on the survivor side to stay hidden for a while to lure the Killer away from the 3 gen? What I'm trying to say is, that there is a small line in my opinion between "using an effective strategy to win" and "holding the game hostage", so I'm not advocating to ban Knight players like to one in the video, but I think BHVR should address this strategy, maybe with solutions like the one you suggested in your last. paragraph.
1 -
If you repair yourself into an unwinnable 3-gen, you lost by your own choices, just like when the killer defends only the center and suddenly all three last gens are on opposite ends of the map. They are undefendable and he lost by his own choices made.
The knight by itself is bad for the game, period. His power alone created this fringe scenario because he can deny a zone for so long.
0 -
You raise a good point @SunaIIanu as protecting a 3 gen survivors organically created themselves is an entirely valid strat and a 3 gen against a Dr is a nightmare situation you are not going to win.
There is a line here and I don't know how BHVR could even begin to police this
0 -
Yeah, I have had this happen two times in the past days. One time against a Wraith on Haddonfield and one time against a Pinhead on RPD. The Pinhead went for the 3-Gen right from the start (2 Gens in Main Hall plus one nearby).
How BHVR can handle this - well, first of all, the same like Survivors taking the game hostage. Recording and reporting if it happens for a long time.
In the long-term, I dont really know. Personally, I would guess that they would be able to add more Gens to the Trial, so that you dont have to do 5 out of 7, but 5 out of 10 or so. This would eliminate 3-Gens. And they did this solution before with the PIg-Boxes where adding one extra Box removed the "camping one Box"-playstyle of her.
But it would be a quite extreme measure.
The other would be to obliterate the Gen Kicking-Meta.
Solution 1 would mean that strategic, but not extreme 3-Gens would not be possible anymore, but anyone who does not want to go for them would still have their Perks (even tho, Eruption still needs to be changed).
Solution 2 would allow 3-Gens, but ruin the Perks for everyone who does not play like this.
Hard decision, but I hope BHVR finds some solution. From what I read online it looks like more and more people are playing like this and this will really hurt the game in the longrun.
5 -
And this is the issue, no rational person will argue against a killer defending a 3 gen survivors were stupid enough to create for themselves. But of course these Knight players are using perks and his unique power to create a 3 gen scenario right from the start and the potential for survivors to win against this is very low to borderline impossible
0 -
I agree @Aven_Fallen it is becoming very common now and it will hurt the game if it carries on like this. People always find unexpected ways to break things lol...
0 -
Idk I never said they should ban anyone I said that BHVR threatens it in certain situations for a reason, it's because the strategy in some situations is too strong, enough to where it can be considered holding the game hostage and to me that's bad design and bad gen layout that shouldn't be there, I'm a firm believer that nothing in game should get you banned if you aren't hacking
0 -
I do not blame the players, people want to win, but the fact devs allowed this to happen with having those perks synergize so well and being that powerful is a problem
Survivors should be heavily punished if they 3 gen but if the gens are too close from the start and killer is just going around destroying resources around the area while no one is going down it becomes a chore to play because the killer force this from the start and there's no counter play due to gen regressing/kicking perks just working too well, like I mean do devs want killers to play the game like that? Just going around 3 gens ignoring survivors until eventually match ends
If so I am scared what future killers/perks we will get
2 -
The core mechanic isnt improved much. Gen, Aura, Gate, Heal, Expose, Hex. Thats it.
Do this to make Gen become like this.
Do this to see Survivors' aura
Do this to slowdown their healing
If survivor do this, they get Exposed
Do this and Hex activated, it will do this
One day we will have
- Touch Gate will be Exposed for 15sec, the effect linger as long as you touch the Gate.
- Survivors blind you will be Exposed
- Survivors pick up an item will be Exposed
- Survivors finish a Gen will be Exposed
- Survivors fully healed will be Exposed for ?sec
They have to think at least 24 perks per year, Im sure we will get to see these perks.
1 -
If someone is playing this way you lose even if you escape, the best thing you can do is have some respect for your time by letting yourself be hooked and going next
3 -
Just curious could you remind me what NWTH stands for? I can't think of it atm
0 -
Well this is pretty much the only solution unless you want to waste an hour of your life... which I don't. So it makes me feel like why even bother playing against it at all? As at this stage we are just humouring the killers ego in a match we cannot win from the outset
5 -
No Way To Hide, the Knights Perk which reveals the Aura of Survivors when kicking a Gen.
0 -
Right, thanks, probably why I couldn't remember it, actually haven't seen a knight or his perks in a while, lol
0 -
It's like Bubba and camping or Twins and slugging.
Some killers only really have one viable way of playing against strong opponents.
0 -
I disagree, this isn't simply a viable strategy, it is exploiting bad design and creating an unwinnable scenario for your opponents where their only sensible option is to give up to avoid an hour long standoff.
Against Bubba you can still do gens, against Twins you can also do the same. Sure both of them are annoying, unfun and difficult to deal with but they don't force your entire team into a hostage situation from the outset.
5 -
You're missing my point.
These are all boring, unfun playstyles that unfortunately that killer is basically pigeonholed into because of a poorly designed kit.
All three need a rework, and some buffs in other areas to allow them to play differently.
Yes, it sucks when someone stakes out a 3gen early and just defends, much as it sucks when 2 survivors decide to sulk and play hide and seek around the map while avoiding AFK crows. But outside of recording and reporting, you can't do much to 'fix' it without interfering with legitimate play.
The majority of the time, 3gen situations are something survivors do to themselves.
1 -
No I get what you are saying but the point is the Knight 3 gen lock strategy has no counter. The others are unfun strategies that are of course a consequence of not so great design of the killer but they still have counter play.
The 3 gen lockdown with Eruption, COB etc has no counter and the Knight is an anti loop killer, even if a somewhat janky one at that. But they aren't playing to his power, they are exploiting a perk combo and his power to create an unwinnable scenario for survivors. Can you not see the distinction here?
2
