http://dbd.game/killswitch
How to fix the 3gen Hostage Scenario.
I am referring to the 3gen scenario when the killer finds a tight 3gen and defends it above all else forgoing chases and hooking while their only priorities are making sure no gens get completed in the 3gen and any progress made on those gens quickly regresses to zero. This should not be considered a winning strategy for the killer and is awful for the game of DbD if it becomes normalized. This is a stalling, stalemate strategy and the only reason killers win by doing this is survivors give up and choose death (who wants to waste an hour on 1 match?) or the game ends after an hour and all survivors left are insta-killed. Some argue the killer is holding the game hostage because they are not trying to complete their objective (to kill) and substituting an unacceptable objective (to stall).
This scenario is only going to play out more and more now that it has been demonstrated by Hens on Youtube. It's already playing out too often.
The solution is simple; the Entity is impatient.
If the match lasts 30 minutes:
- If there is more than 1 gen left to be completed all survivors get Entity-moried and the game ends immediately.
- Any survivor who does not have 250 (pick a number) seconds of time worked on a gen after 30 minutes gets Entity-moried. (No you can't just hide all game.)
- If any survivors still remain, Endgame Collapse starts.
- This Endgame should have a timer longer than 2 minutes, because the gates are not open when it starts.
This would mean no game of DbD would ever be able to last more than a maximum of 34 minutes ever again. I think this is acceptable.
This would be a healthy change to the game to ensure both sides have to try to progress their objectives in the first 30 minutes of the match or face the consequences. Neither side would be able to effectively stall the game out.
The killer could try to lock down a 4gen to try to stall the game. I think that would be fine. A killer generally can't do that as long as 3 or 4 survivors remain alive.
Comments
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Having the survivors auto-killed like that would just encourage killers to 3 gen and not commit to a chase even more often. You're rewarding that gameplay, not punishing it.
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How would this encourage getting away from a 3 gen? So now you have to wait half the time for all the survivors to die? Lmao
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The survivors already get auto-killed after the 60 minute timer runs out, or at least it looks like it in the Hens video.
My idea is not just cutting the game timer in half. It's a fully fleshed out idea meant to deal with multiple scenarios because neither side should have the option to stall the game out to get a win. It's horrible for the game.
With this solution stalling the game for 30 minutes would not be an automatic win for either side. As long as the survivors put in an effort to complete the gens (250s of gen time in the OP), they all get to take their chances in an Endgame Collapse. If the Entity found their efforts lacking, then they deserve instant death.
There has to be something there to make both sides try. Killers should not be able to get an automatic win for locking down a 3gen all game and survivors should not get an automatic win for hiding all game.
I wish I had more fun playing DbD. I'd be playing the game instead of coming up with suggestions to improve the game that no one bothers to actually read and will never get implemented.
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The autokill after an hour is already benefitting killers doing the 3 gen stall like Hens, you're idea halves the time needed which encourages killers to continue doing it and hopefully get the time needed cut down further for easier auto-kills. It does nothing to discourage 3 gen stall games, it makes them more effective for the killer.
Auto-killing the survivors shouldn't be the go to fix for problematic game mechanics. Fixing gen rng, adding additional gens available to work on when one gen is left so there's more gens to keep track of when 1 gen is left, deactivating certain gen regression perks once one gen is left similar to how OTR/DS get deactivated once gens are completed. There's other ways to fix the problem that isn't "auto-kill the survivors because killer stalled the game with a 3-gen and wouldn't commit to hooking them."
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The issue is that this isn't an endgame 3gen.
This is a person staking out a 3gen from word one and never leaving it, in the hopes of dragging the game out to the timecap and autokill.
Not an easy one to fix, sadly.
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You're still missing the entire point. The survivor would only get autokilled if they hid all game, in which case they don't deserve a chance to live. If a survivor put in the effort to get the gens done and only 1 gen was left, they would be afforded an opportunity to escape in EGC. 250 seconds of gen time is not a high bar to reach in a game lasting 30 minutes.
My idea would have the exact opposite effect of what you're saying. Are you just assuming survivors hide all game?
Killers can have a very successful time doing the 3 gen stall strategy because your average survivor (especially SoloQs) in DbD is not going to try once they realize they are in a very bad 3gen, especially if the killer has been camping it and have the right perks. Most of them are going to go to the killer and ask for death and I am there right beside them. Even if I last the hour I still lose. I do not want waste an hour on a game of DbD and I am will to hand-deliver myself to the hook for the killer to put me on it than suffer through that BS. That's just not healthy for the game.
Seriously, who wants a game of DbD to last an hour? Please point them out to me.
30 minutes is an acceptable maximum.
If survivors know they could try for half an hour and have a chance at escaping if the killer chooses to do this 3gen camping crap that is possible with current meta, they'd be more than likely stick it out until the end. That would be good for the game.
I make this sort of suggestion because I know my target; BHVR. This is the exact sort of band-aid solution BHVR is likely to implement. Yes I'd love to see them fix map and gen-spawning RNG, but I know that just isn't going to happen.
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He doesn't chase.
He just sits there and stalls. If a gen gets worked on, he slaps regression on it and never leaves the area. You can do 4gens, but you'll never get that last one done.
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Go and watch some of the videos on this. While I don't think Eruption is as OP as people make it out to be, it does make this strategy nearly unbeatable. CoB+Erupt+maybe Overcharge and Dragon's Grip - you aren't going to break that 3gen. You'll either get slugged out in the little defensive zone, or you'll run out of time.
I think Hens did a video on this, go and give it a look.
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Or just nerf this awful gen kicking meta that enables such a strategy to be possible.
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Your idea still benefits the killer using a problematic strategy. It sends the survivors to EGC giving them 2 minutes to unlock the doors, which the killer can now easily use to wait out the timer while guarding the doors. Toss on No Way Out and it makes it even easier. 30 minute stall matches will become the norm with a band aid fix like you're suggesting.
If you want a match to end after 30 minutes you could just have the game end in a draw - no one escapes or dies.
BHVR goes with band aid solutions because they get encouraged to use them with ideas like this. Continuing to not fix the problems in this game and instead do band aid fixes is why the game keeps becoming more and more unfun.
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Good idea but with 15 min mark, so 19 min would become the new theoretical maximum longest match.
We don't need longer matches than this!
Who cares about escaping / dying, seriously???
At some point, we just want to move on
Finally, the BPs gain per minute becomes ridiculously low after 10-15 minutes, especially if killer fails to kill survivors / if survivors fail to escape
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Currently, if a game lasts 60 minutes the killer wins by default as all survivors get insta-killed as the match ends.
My suggestion gives the survivors a chance to survive after 30 minutes of torture with a possible exciting completion. This is a win-win for survivors: not only do they never have to suffer for a full hour ever again, they also get a chance to survive. But somehow in your eyes this benefits the killer.
Ending the game in a draw is boring. If survivors don't have a chance to win outright then what point is there to stick around in the match and not just go ask the killer for death so they can go next?
BHVR goes with band-aid solutions because they're lazy. Encouragement has nothing to do with it. They shouldn't have needed to be encouraged to fix the hacking problem by their big content creators, it should have just just been part of the games development for the last 6 years.
Anyways I don't think there is any way for me to sway your mind and you're not going to sway mine.
Good day.
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It's not a win win for the survivors when it encourages an unfun problematic gameplay. It will result in more killers going for the 3 gen stall which will lead to more of these unfun matches. A shortened time makes it more appealing to killers because they won't have to wait as long for results and can move onto next match faster to repeat same tactic - 3 gen stall 8 survivors in an hour instead of 4, sounds awesome and not ruining more players game time at all. EGC starting without a door open is also appealing to killers since it is easy to prevent the two exits from being opened for 2 minutes - especially if some survivors have already been auto-killed for them.
Draw would encourage killers to actually secure a kill over guarding the 3 gen. What's the point of 3 gen stall for 30 minutes if you won't get kills as a result? Survivors won't get bored and ask to go next because the killer will be forced to commit to chase - if killer doesn't and just continues guarding 3 gen they basically have thrown the game for no BP and no kills, just wasting time which they shouldn't get rewarded for anyway.
BHVR does bandaid fixes because the playerbase is impatient and easily distracted. The bandaid fixes don't actually fix the issues making the game unfun. The bandaids just give the appearance they're trying to help while something else that's broken attracts the focus of complaints. With a bandaid fix the issue is still there, still unfun, and still needs an actual fix.
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In Hens' video if EGC started after 30 minutes, no survivors would have gotten auto-killed and Hens would have struggled to get a 2k and probably have gotten less.
I would expect less than 10% of survivors to actually get auto-killed after 30 minutes with the lenient guidelines I set out in the OP. Those conditions are there just so the survivors have to try and not just hide the entire game. If anything, 250 seconds of gen time might even be too low.
I don't know what game you're playing if you think guarding 2 gates from 4 survivors is easy, it's not DbD, that's for sure. The survivors literally have to throw in that scenario for the killer to get a 4k even with the closest gate spawns possible. This is especially true because the stalling killer has devoted most if not their entire build to slowdowns which leaves little room for NWO, NOED, or other endgame perks and they are probably playing a less than S tier killer like Knight, Doctor or Legion. The killer resorted to a stalling strategy so their ability to even catch survivors is questionable. I bet their average kill rate would be below 25% for games lasting more than 30 minutes.
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Yes. Eruption is there for them if they try to brute force gens down. Reapplying it doesn't take long. DG works on the same principle.
Once again, go watch the Hens video. Then we can chat.
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I did. I wasn't sure if you were being serious. Even the creator explains that it's a 'stars align' moment, not something that can be reliably recreated.
How exactly do you have enough BNPs to preemptively bring them to every single match, for starters?
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/eyeroll.
No. That's what I'm saying.
You can't bring BNP preemptively every match in case someone wants to be a pooper and do this.
Also - that's not a build. That's an item. An Iri, no less. You can bring a build every match. You can't bring an item.
In case you didn't understand, this was two people with a fully jacked PE, plus dual BNPs. The thing about PE is that - outside of a meme video like this one, it's a perk that you are never going to bring. And people shouldn't be expected to bring a niche perk every game just in case someone is abusing something like this - if that's the answer, then that only proves my point.
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Okay, last try because I feel like I'm being gently wound up here.
- The issue is that one build is possible and from the other folks on the forums, it's catching on now. But you don't know if it's going to happen, so you can't really prepare for it every game. And if it does occur and you've got a standard build, there is no way to break it. Currently, Knight seems to be the popular choice for doing this, but I can imagine a few others also pulling it off easily.
- You don't need to chase over the map. All you need to do is get a hit, then slap a regression perk on it. If they persist, you'll get downs. If they fall back to heal, the gens regress. You...still haven't watched that Hens video, have you? Also - you seem more interested in twisting people's words to play 'gotcha' games rather than actually having a discussion - it's a bit silly.
- It's not 'easily countered', at all. I'm still not sure if you understand exactly what's being described here. The only counter involves running a specific, very niche build that's going to lose you a lot of other games. Which isn't reasonable.
- If one specific strategy requires specific perks to counter or it's an auto-loss, that instantly tells you there's a problem. See: Boil Over+No Mither.
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So the issue is that there isn’t something that would draw the Killer away from the three gen.
And the reason the Killer is performing the 3-gen is because it prevents survivors from escaping.
So what could you add as an alternative escape route that scales with generators completed (as to not be feasible at the start of the Trial), that takes too long to perform as to only be an issue for Killers that stay in one spot, and is noticeable enough for observant killers to pick up on and interrupt.
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In Hens video he's leaving the gens long enough for the survivors to work on them - he goofs off standing still watching a crouched survivor's aura until they move and just shaking no at a healthy survivor with a flashlight. If a killer knows that survivors can avoid insta kill from just attempting to work on the 3 gen until 30 minutes is up they won't be as forgiving and will try harder to prevent survivors from touching gens.
Guarding the doors with unlimited time from 4 survivors is difficult but if the survivors are limited on time because EGC has started it's much easier - it's why killers tend to throw out the idea that EGC should start when the last gen is completed instead of when the exit gate is opened. Just toss on No Way Out instead of No Where to Hide so you know which door they went to first, the doors get blocked and survivors have even less time during EGC to open the exits.
It's also assuming all 4 survivors stuck around - that none decided to offer themselves up or DC because they didn't want to be stuck in another gen stall match for 30 minutes and maybe escape but probably not. The 30 minute gen stall plus possibility of insta kill and the limited time to open a door because EGC are things that will discourage survivors from wanting to play the unfun match.
You can bandaid fix the problem with 30 minute matches but it is going to increase the amount of killers playing 3 gen stall matches and it's going to increase the amount of survivors quitting (DC or offering themselves up to killer) because they don't want to be in a 30 minute gen stall match.
This bandaid fix does nothing to fix the issue and there are better solutions like fixing gen rng, adjusting perks that are an issue with 3 gens (this is probably the easiest for BHVR), have more gens available to work on when 1 gen is left, if a killer damages same gen dozen times without hooking anyone a random gen on other side of the map becomes available to work on. All the other solutions wouldn't require the match to be stalled for 30 minutes and would end the match much faster. They also encourage progressing games instead of stalling them.
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dude, what the hell is that? Please remove this from the game.
Why is it always someone who wants to remove some killer strategy, camping is good and tunneling is bad. Playing from 3 generators is bad. What to do to remain both good and strong?
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Three gen strategies have been a core part of the game since 2016. Everyone who is not a noob does their best to prevent a 3 gen setup.
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Ah so basekit UB suggestion was very sound thing from devs, because iron grasp and agitation exists. It has counter so it's no issue. Right? Even if it requires killer/survivor preemtively bringing perks that are otherwise bad. No problem at all. So then let's revert last boil over nerf and remove those additional hooks that were added to the game. It was no problem at all according to you and the video you provided
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You say infinite 3gen holding is no problem, because gen burst perks exists. I say that if that's the case, then old boil over without hooks on top of mains (like eyrie of crows), or PTB's version of infinite basekit UB when you could abuse edge of map is then also no problem, because iron grasp and agitation exists.
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You would only encourage killers to bring only Jolt, CoB, Eruption and Overcharge and protect their gens.
This does not fix the problem.
The REAL problem is, that multiple gens can spawn very close to each other. Therefore random map generation should be adjusted to spread out gens a bit more. Small maps are more difficult to deal with naturally.
Exaples:
- Saloon: there should never spawn 3 or more gens around the gallows
- Azarov's: here the shape of the map needs to get adjusted, since it allows the easiest 3gen or even 4gen in the game.
- The Game/Midwich: gens need to be distributed across both floors equaly. I have seen an iteration of The Game where there was only 1 Gen upstairs.
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I hadn't realized that the gates wouldn't be open for this End-Endgame Collapse happening.
Still the solution is simple, extend the EEGC timer by a minutes. I'll edit the OP if I still can.
Yes they should fix map RNG and and fix the perks but I still think this should be added to the game since no game of DbD should last an hour.
No one in their right mind wants games of DbD to last an hour. It's ridiculous to defend it.
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If doors automatically opened after 30 minutes for the remaining survivors killers would flip out. Good punishment for 3 gen stall but there's no way that wouldn't get a crazy amount of backlash.
I'm for shorter matches (I said before just end in draw if players really want to stall for 30 minutes) BUT the things that stall the matches in the first place need to be adjusted first because 30 minute stall builds would become more common if they went forward with this. Right now an hour match is a deterrent to doing a stall match because like you said, "no one wants an hour match," but 30 minutes won't seem so bad so it will be more appealing.
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Killers try to do this nearly every game. This isn't something new that a player figured out recently. I remember doing this in a wreckers map with Michael when hatch standoff was a thing and the gens were in a triangle literally two car spaces apart.
Now the maps are so much better. Gens are so much further from each other.
And guess what, there is an extremely easy solution to solve this complaint. DO GENS. You can wait for the killer's patrol to pass a gen and then get two to four players on it you can usually make significant progress. If you are chased RUN AWAY SO THE OTHER CAN FINISH... Easy. Another method is to have one person on each gen, and if four players are still alive then two on one of the three. You can't ALL be chased at the same time.
Another tip here, if you are getting chased and the killer drops the chase, turn around and follow them back to the gen. Sneakily wait for them to break it and jump right back on it.
If the killer commits to chasing and downing you, the other survivors can use this to win! The killer cannot chase the others off gens while they are hooking you.
If the killer is so good that you still can't DO GENS! then the final option is to admit you aren't as good as them and lose. END THE GAME. Stop making matches that you can't win and are probably getting no blood for playing anymore last forever. Go force a chase or go get pulled off a gen and bam, the game should end soon.
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Survivors can use Deja Vu.
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Where did I suggest the doors open automatically?
You really have just been trolling me this entire time haven't you?
I am such a gullible moron.
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You said you "hadn't realized that the gates wouldn't be open for this End-Endgame Collapse happening." which I took to mean when you came up with your idea you had planned the doors would automatically open.
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I meant it to mean that the Endgame Collapse would start similar to if the killer stomped the hatch at precisely 30 minutes game time. The hatch would still spawn once only 1 survivor remained in the match, I don't see why that should change.
Never in DbD have the gates opened without having a killer or survivor open them, so that's a pretty raw assumption to make.
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Saying "hadn't thought gates wouldn't be open" doesn't sound like you just meant gates powered it sounds like exit gates are opened - especially when it was in response to my argument about having limited time to open the gates and the killer being able to block them. But whatever, it was just a misunderstanding and you cleared it up so thanks for clarifying what you actually meant.
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