Sadly Off The Record is becoming essential but also...

You do realise you keep stacking more and more conditions onto this scenario, right? We're talking about a one-in-a-million type of scenario where all the stars align for a risky strategy that, if it doesn't pay off, practically guarantees the killer wins.

Except you also lose time because you go into the on-hit cooldown while the survivor you are chasing makes distance, possibly reaching a new loop. Mending is quicker than recovering from Dying, and they can't recover from dying at all unless they use up another perk slot. DS punishes misuse significantly harder than OTR does.

Yes, this is the current situation, and why OTR is not fine. It works against non-tunnelling killers, unlike DS.

You're not talking about losing a survivor, you're talking about losing a survivor, and another survivor with the exact same cosmetic set-up happening to be in that survivor's extraction route without you being able to see the survivor you were originally chasing, while the second survivor was pulled off the hook in the last 60 seconds and didn't do anything to progress the survivors' side of the game, and they're also on the same health state as the person you were chasing, and they have DS, and UB, and they haven't used the latter yet.

You are conjuring the most contrived scenario to try and proclaim DS to be a problem, ignoring that this is hard to pull off, not particularly rewarding for the survivors, and can easily go very, very wrong for them.

What you are missing is that the ref explicitly told you, five times, to wait for his signal before you can take the shot, and you took the shot immediately after he was done warning you. If you get upset that that goal gets disqualified, that's on you.

Yeah, because for years, DS did not deactivate for conspic actions. Original DS didn't even require you to be unhooked. The DS that existed immediately before 6.1 had ONE complaint about it, which was that it felt unfair during EGC. And that was clipped off with 6.1.

It has nothing to do with any kind of 'psychological impact' of DS.

Okay your the one latching onto all these different conditions while I am trying to boil it down to its simplest form.

So one last time there are 2 ada's (I am using Ada because cosmetic options are limited and I tend to see alot of them in the basic outfit) in the match one on hook the other one is going for the unhook you hit them and they unhook both are injured and you cant tell which is which. This can also happen with 2 completely different survivors and a flashlight/flashbang blind so you cant see anything until after the unhook and can even still work if you look away to avoid the blind and the hook was in a tile that blocks line of sight.

So you are left with 2 sets of scratch marks heading in different directions and cant see the survivors so there is a 50/50 chance the scratch marks you choose to follow are the unhooker. My solution kicks in right here making it so there is only 1 set of scratch marks to follow and highlighting the unhooker meaning you chase the unhooker or hunt blindly and deafly for the person off the hook. This makes tunneling a concious decision that the killer is making and even if they see the survivor and decide to chase them, for 10 seconds they are faster than the killer and the killer loses even more time and ground. Plus it works even against most strong killers that can make up the ground because if they lose line of sight there is nothing to track and the survivor can still bring DS as a punishment for when the killer CHOOSES to tunnel.

Now back to without my suggestion and your basekit DS so we know 100% they have DS. There are essentially 4 different outcomes from the unhook, 2 if you know who's who, and 2 if you only have scratch marks to go off of and other factors that make it hard to tell them apart.

So lets start with the most basic one, Killer goes directly after the unhooked survivor intentionally gets the down eats the DS gets the down again and the hook and probably loses 2-3 gens for 1 hook state, I dont think anyone would disagree that this is fine there is no issue here this a textbook Ds being used for anti tunnel purposes.

There are 2 outcomes where you chase the unhooker either by choice or happenstance, depending on whether the survivor has DS. If they dont have DS they will go to heal or gen and getting your down and hook can actually occur while potentially losing 0-1 gens. If the survivor has DS 100% of the time they will more than likely follow the chase and after you down and pickup the unhooker they will interfere with you trying to get the hook sometimes not making a difference other times costing you the hook. If they cost you the hook you may slug them and still get the unhookerand get extra pressure or the unhooker may be gone you lose 2 gens and get 0 hook states or try to wait out the DS timer/eat the DS and get 1 hook state while they get progress towards the next set of gens. In this situation the killer is being punished even though they were actually avoiding tunneling.

The final outcome is you end up on the trail of the unhooked survivor by accident. Chase get the down slug them and probably lose 2- 3 gens and get 0 hook states or 1 if you eat the DS and carry through the hook regardless. In this situation your technically tunneling, even though that wasn't the Intent and get punished regardless.

Gen numbers stated are based on getting first hook before any gens are completed.

As to the penalty shot analogy that obviously missed its mark because if you touched the puck before the ref signalled with his whistle you would get stopped long before you skated down the ice to a postion where you would be shooting the puck. To be more specific with that analogy i was thinking more like you shoot the puck into the net and it hits a bar in the net whch is a goal, but the ref thinks it hit one of the outer bars and calls it not a goal, and Instant replay obviously not being available.

There were still plenty of complaints being made about Ds specifically because the conspicuous action change did nothing to any of the situations I outlined above. Those situations got even more common, because working on a gen would deactivate DS it was more commonly used to harass the killer so the 2 survivors not there could work on gens.

Again you are obviously a much better killer than me because these things werent an issue for you, but DS was the main reason I quit playing killer before Nemesis came out until just before the prestige update came out, and that was just to get as many bloodpoints as possible, and then only really started playing killer again after the perk rework.

It depends, because sometimes you are only bad at the game because the survivors it throws at you are usually outside your skill level, scummy tactics are all you have to keep up. As an example right now for me the incentve is on 100% killer bonus and when i queue up I will probably have 8 of 10 games against survivors at a much higher skill level than me and if I get 3 or 4 sweaty matches in a row it can be hard to switch gears when I get a lower/even skilled team.

That isnt the case for everyone all the time obviously, but I know for me when matchmaking screws me over I have to do everything in my power to re-even the odds to make it a fair match.

Oh, and if a Survivor runs at you with DS active, they are also forcing you to pick them up?

In regards of Map Pressure, it is the same if you slug them or hook them... 1 Survivor less on a Gen.

The people who get tunnelled out first every match must be really unlucky, or full of hyperbole.

That's the point. If you require this many conditions to set up the scenario you describe, it's not 'boiled down to its simplest form'.

This in contrast with 'Person who was unhooked in the last 60 seconds bodyblocks the killer', which is all that is required to use OTR offensively.

No, there weren't. I was around during that time and a frequenter of the forums. Nobody complained about getting duplicate survivors mixed up and getting hit with DS as a result. The only complaint DS got was that it was unfair when applied during the dash for the exit, as it felt like a free escape and a denial of the killer's only option.

No, it wasn't. Because it's an incredibly ineffective strategy that wastes as much of the survivors' time, or more.

Why am I not surprised to see the 'I am bad, therefor it's okay for me to tunnel' argument coming from you?

Did you perhaps consider that you are messing up your MMR rating by getting kills you aren't supposed to get by using blatantly overpowered tactics as crutches?

Give killers a basekit mini BBQ that shows one survivor AND give them a speedboost as long as they move in the general direction of that survivor and aren't in any chase. The beauty of the old BBQ was that everyone had it equipped for the BP bonus and, as if by accident, the main portion of its effect showed killers all kinds of opportunities and thus peeled them away from the hook.

The speed boost would be needed to sweeten the deal of chasing after some survivor, and to give non-mobility M1 killers an opportunity to do so without shooting themselves in the foot.

In the same stroke, BHVR could do something to punish tunneling, like if you tunnel someone and try to hook them within 45s of them getting off the hook there is a 33% chance that The Entity itself sabotages a hook. Not totally invalidating it, but enough to make going for someone else the correct choice.

Of the carrot and the whip, the first one is the more effective one, and people will react much more favorable to it, while the whip will often make them stubbornly stay in their old ways, just to "stick it to them!".

This is also a problem that a lot of the playerbase fail to gasp: if you do an unsafe unhooking, then you need to stay and take off the heat of the unhooked survivor. If you just vault away and disappear, well, then I only have one target, ie the poor sod you just unhooked. Thats not tunneling, thats "having only one option"

Your going for generals when it's the specifics that matter.

Tunnel at the start and not letting up no matter what vs targeting that one when other appealing options are available (example of us in the doorway at lery's, hit us we're just as injured and you've already wasted time just trying to pass us)

Camping at endgame vs camping the first hook while 3+ gens need done. Pretty pointless and is unfun and won't get a "meaningful" victory (aka actually playing) and often won't get any victory except spiteful ones.

Slugging cause there's flashlights in the open vs hunting and slugging everyone for spite. One reasonable, one is just being a ####.

As for the things said at end game, ignore it. People do as people will (hence why we are still futiley trying to get a point across and may be deviating now that we're thinking about it) expecting anything is pointless. (Apologies if this is offensive but it sounds like your sick of the toxic community more than the topic)

No one is responsible for fun except the devs. Your free to keep being "efficient" but understand that it gonna cause what we said above, just as a toxic community will deter killers from playing. Playing well isn't bad but playing and ruining people's fun (which, on a game ment to be fun) is probably a no no.