NOED BASEKIT
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Calling the kick and cooldown changes basekit pop and STBFL is such a laughably stupid take it's not even funny.
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Basekit NOED would only trigger,last gen and if killer decides to camp the buff is removed all together and is deactivated with 7 meters of the hook. Also NOED no longer should work by totem, that's the point of it being basekit.
The isn't really about NOED but about the give and take of ,what survivors are willing to give and what they take.They can have Basekit unbreakable, Barrowed Time Kindred,and even more info on the screen but the sheer mention of NOED being basekit,has flipped the politeness into malice.But on top of how fast gens can be done and how fast survivors can heal,wouldn't the killer need NOED basekit? Like the wraith in that video should he be rewarded a sacrifice for playing hard all game, shouldn't he have a chance or is his reward nasty comments after t bagged at the gate ? I'm supposed to have a stressful match almost every game and then watch swf bm me until endgame runs out with hand holding basekit ? That's what I'm supposed to accept? I say No, I will not.
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I legit go play killer if I want to have chill matches. Survivor is super frustrating and not fun.
You wanting to buff stronger side (hello check official stats) speaks volumes about you.
You wanting to go back to old "fair" DBD just shows your ignorance (2 windows at shack? Only fast vaults? Permanent hook sabotages? Maaany more pallets on the map? Hatch allowing whole team to escape with single key and many more things). As it stands the game is slowly buffing killers for at least past 2 years (sure there are some exceptions like boil over fiasco or introduction of boons, but the nerfs are constant).
Also you clearly don't have experience in game showing from your video. If you played the game more for both sides, you would know that very strong 4 man SWF is balanced with stronger killers. Solo is bad even against weak killer (provided the player is good).
One more thing - if you think it's killers that are leaving the game right now, then think again. The game incentives show which side needs more players and it gives BP bonus to that side. In my region I could call those incentives as "survivor incentives". During week it's 23hrs a day on survivor and on weekends it's still about 20hrs. People just don't want to play this gutted weak role that has basically nothing going for them (when in soloQ) and getting camped and tunneled almost every game. It even shows on stats as people are leaving this game. Right now it's very clear survivors need help (specifically largest group of them - soloQ)
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Im just going to step in and say that I have never been insulting you directly. I have only used metaphors and figurative language to express basic ideas. You made an outrageous claim about me, so I corrected you and used a figurative language to describe the situation and how wildly wrong you were to come to said conclusions.
Also nobody is saying that you cant have different opinions, we are just pointing out very clear flaws in the ideas you have presented, as well as pointing out how a lot of your replies seem to be thrown in there with no coherent connection to the actual conversation or subjects that matter. But as for the flaws I pointed it, the intention is not to sit here and change your mindset, the entire point is realizing that it is "a solution" but not the "best solution".
(I hope this makes sense.)
I was going to end it with my last reply but I refuse to sit here and have someone saying that I threw "insults" their way when I never did nor would it be my intention. All Ive done is tried to provide a logical way of breaking down some issues and flaws with your statements since I personally love breaking things down into smaller pieces and explaining them.
(The last thing I would do is intentionally slander or insult someone over an opinion, I have decency ya know.)
I hope you improve as a player and come to enjoy the game a lot more (I dont mean that in a negative way), if you having a rough experience with Killer, I would always recommend taking a break from the game. If you are already feeling frustrated, nobody is forcing you to play but yourself, so it's often best to remind yourself that you can do other things if you arent enjoying yourself.
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It's small changes, but it still does help Killers.
2.5% of Generator progress is not good at all, it is laughably bad I will admit, but we really dont know if they will get buffed in the future, or new perks will modify and buff that %. But the reduced Break Action time from the basekit changes in junction with the current Generator-Kicking meta kind of put it in a spot where that extra 2.5% is not that bad in my opinion. It's free extra regression after all.
As for Cooldown changes, I personally think it to be more impactful than people make it out to be. 10% reduced Hit Cooldown reduced a lot of the distance Survivors could make. Combine it with the reduce Speed Boost on hit, Survivors arent going to go for risky plays with the Speed Boost and Cooldowns; and holding W is made less effective.
Part of me though, wishes that we went back to a hooking meta and that basekit Generator-Kicking regression was made better (maybe 10%), Pop Goes can double the effect after hooking a Survivor and even go back to total Generator progress and not current.
Idk, just throwing some ideas in the air. I just really like the old meta in the sense that people were rewarded for actively progressing the game with hooks. It made me feel good as Killer since I was rewarded for playing well. But to each their own I guess.
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The problem is map design, that’s what killers need. I don’t want noed, it gives free undeserved kills.
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I think the maps are fine,if people stop nerfing all the killer perks that give us a fighting chance and abilities,matches would go alot smoother any killer that doesn't have map pressure are really the ones who suffer the most from the perk changes that slow down the game.I kill a couple of solo Q's boost my mmr only to play against a swf and be gen rushed and ultimately defeated, what's the point of going against high caliber teams if I have nothing to combat them.
If i lose because of this,I'm put against solo que's who want organize and do the gens or default meg gets hit and dc's then i'm expected to let survivors have a good match.I mean not every match is tough for solo que it's only when you face a really good killer it gets tough but you can escape, or two can escape if survivors work together in solo que because I get matches,where other's want help me out let me go into second struggle while they search a chest or just Swf who will let you die out of spite
And there's killers who hangout in the lower MMR that's actually really good but their too garbage of a killer to play in higher MMR because they don't want to be bullied but bully survivors
Camping and tunneling isn't bullying but it's how it's done
If swfs can pull victories back to back ,solo que can by giving more information on screen doesn't help only breaks the immersion and helps swf's in the process i escape most of the time if I'm not tunneled out of the game first but that's not a problem to me because i find fair matches most of the time.
This thread was started over a status effect that others want removed but and it will always be nerfs because of swf's just has to escape if they lose one match.
Everything that has been nerfed up until now hasn't help matches,in solo que,why would that change
If you get unbreakable basekit want killers just pick you up and hook you ?
If they give survivors a aura reading basekit want killers just run bit murmur?
If they give survivors more information on HUD want Feng Min still hide in the basement ?
Pretty much what you should be doing if your team in solo's start throwing.I do ! even if they've unhooked me but if they won't play how they should then they can die I'll go for hatch because we're definitely not getting 3 gens done if two people are dead.Like I said if I'm not tunneled early in the game I'm usually the last survivor left or I escape.If you want better matches force yourself to become better to be matched with better teammates in solo que.Low MMR exist for a reason.
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You are patronizing me and being sarcastic.You worded everything in a way to make me look as if I had know Idea what I was talking about.You never mentioned having more information doesn't help swf but exclaim that it will help solo que ? How does having more information help solo que with Eruption.It doesn't you already have a perk that can help predict if someone goes down like Bond and there's probably an aura perk that let's survivors see if the killer does a hit action.
You didn't try to understand anything,I've said on how more information could be harmful to killer and the game itself.
You can't force your team to be a better team.
My thing is how does having information help you ,with eruption which you said seems to be the problem?I take it you've been playing a while and you know what the status icons do.You also should know by now for yourself how to assess your team if, killer kicks the gen and chases the weakest on the team you most likely can predict when and how fast they'll go down.But I like I said none of that helps you with better teammates unless you're matched with better teammates.Theres a half a dozen perks that gives you information, which is already TMI as it is.Knowinghow much gen progress is being done when gens is the killers secondary objective that's like me knowing how much percentage you have while doing a totem and who's on the totem and location of totem
But I'm tired of arguing with you over something you know that will hurt this game and killer side
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I literally played this probably longer than you, I'm not speaking numbers and i guess that's a problem for you.I wasted that time on purpose,but I had no idea that the killer was running Eruption and CoB.You say survivors is in the minority but that isn't correct because with the time wasted we were still able to get our gens done.
I didn't run any perks that help with that so imagine if I actually ran a gen build ? I could have done 3 gens alone.No I'm not a skilled survivor.I mainly play killer and play survivor when I want to see the killers are I'm frustrated with killer because survivor is the least stressful role that's why Tru Talent and Otz jumps in sometimes. As killer mains the survivor side feels less stressful.At less from my experience.It Is why most killer mains feel survivors have a sense of entitlement because they want guaranteed escapes.
Every killer gets gutted because the ability of the killer actually does it's job so put a longer cool down here ( Death slinger) I never even see him these days because his zoning was cooled down mine you he's a 112 killer and relies on precise shots are it's a big punishment.But because when playing against deathslinger every swf decides to run in the open instead of loops like the do every other killer with no range.They want even do that against Huntress because her power leads to downs but since DS cannot down you with his ability they took away what made him viable which was his ability to zone.now it goes like if you miss a shot, reload,point spear cool down if your not ready survivor gets to make distance
Even if you hit them in healthy state the have DH and the initial speed bust to waste time and the cool downs from quick scoop makes no sense because you can lower a rifle IRL with ease and that was the part of his power made him viable to keep survivors guessing.Anytime somebody puts anytime in a killer and becomes effective,the killer is somehow modified
Did you not read my post , this isn't about making a stronger side stronger,I stated killes "should"have built-in NOED.Its ok to have a bunch of buffs survivors side,for the side already strong but killers aren't allowed to have slow downs or a basekit buff.And that shows how one-sided most people who play survivor is.
There's nothing you can do to really stop coordinated teams, who's good at looping and gen objectives,they have maps that show killer and totems ,hooks etc.any totem that spawns hexed usually is destroyed 1 min into game.Survivors heal 3 x faster than gens regress survivors move 125 Ms as killer moves 115 ms player's who run the tiles creates distance effectively that's a reset in it self.They can reset a chase tap gen,heal,stay on gen, get chased, heal,stay on gen rinse and repeat and there's nothing you can do but get a 1 or 2k
I literally said 2018 DBD ,but the Mori and hatch changes are fine
It's not ok to add buffs to a stronger side,only if it calls for it.
If another killer main comes in on this thread and say what,I just said in this post,and tell me I'm wrong then? I'll admit I'm wrong and don't understand DBD.You have to be a legit killer main, who's been on this forum for a year or two.Not a troll but someone who has experience with the killer role and survivor?
My point is there should be a basekit buff for killers like Sloppy Butcher, Unrelenting, Something tamed and not drastic for how fast survivors heal up
PTSL
15% repair
Leader
20% speed increase for healing etc
Reactive Healing
50 % Healing To self
Better Than New
16 % Healing
Circle of Healing
50% Healing self
40 % Healing Speed increase 40 percent for others
Desperate Measures For each Injured,hooked, dying state
14% percent healing
You can do the match at the rate of how fast survivors heal
Not mention For athe people, Adrenaline
For the people just wastes killer time if the survivor is good enough at hiding usually ran with lucky break but usually the best looper gets the pay off as they have reset the chase don't tell me to go kick the gen because about time you go to gen survivor has some how vanished and soon as you leave they're back on gen
This isn't even the rates of the gen rush builds ,but this quit ridiculous to play against and CoH doesn't even have a cool down but eruption shouldn't have a incapacitated status?
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Oh mine you that these are all stackable and synergize with each other
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I have seen part of your video and let me tell you, you have 0 idea about the game. Take it as an insult if you want to, but I am only frank. Your killer and you are so bad, that it does not represent anything in this game. Literrally anything.
If even very new killer can easily play 1000x better and solo survivors too, then how do you want to take anything useful balance-wise out of it? When both sides do continual huge mistake within mistake on mistake, then how do you want to take anything reasonable out of that gameplay?
I will tell you how - you just don't. You are not going to change the game to "adjust balance" for people with 0 clue. When I troll whole game (I would not play different from what you or your killer did on video), then I will not ask to rebalance whole game accordingly. I would at minimum take into account people that at least try to win. So again. Not your case.
Also about Otz you are mistaken. He plays soloQ during the beginning of his stream. Almost never more then 4 games out of which 3-4 end up in death (after which he conveniently swapps to killer). Also Otz agrees soloQ is the weakest role in whole game. Speak about supaAlf, SpookyLoopz or any other more relevant killer main. Or even better, pick people that play both sides - like Scott Jund. People that play both sides tend to give balanced responsed, because they do understand frustration from both sides.
Also about guaranteed escapes. Current escape rate is 39% in high mmr and 41% on average. That is guaranteed? I would say "flip a coin" percentage is 50%. And guaranteed goes towards 100%. I don't know about you, but 39% and even 50% looks to me like a very different numbers. But maybe they are the same thing for some hard entitled killer mains that want the game handed to them, because they are that bad in it (as provided by your video).
About DS - you should see Hens (another person that plays both sides even if he plays killers more) play him. DS is still very strong killer. He is just not free as he used to be. But if you master him, he is within top 10 strongest killers in game. I saw that it's hard to believe to you given your gameplay skill, but given better player, DS has no problem destroying survivors.
And again. You don't want to buff stronger side, but give NOED to 61% kill rate side. Well hard NO.
For your nothing to do against coordinated teams - maybe you should actually watch that Otz (he is not even best because he does not specialize + he handicaps himself on purpose) and look how he so often (sure not always) destroys coordinated teams. Now imagine what would happen if he did not handicap himself and played mostly one single strongest killer. Oh wait. You don't need to imagine. There's a streamer named supaAlf, that currently has 555 wins in a row on his main - nurse. In 555 matches, there wasn't single tryhard coordinated team that could get at least 2 people out. There's no survivor streak that long (even if hens's group came close with 200+ wins). And yet you claim it's not possible. Well guess what? All Alf's game are recorded and directly streamed on twitch. Go watch them for yourself.
Also most of people that you spoke to here are killer mains. For some reason killers are more willing to sign here (maybe it's for historic reasons, because killers used to really be weaker role. This is now reverted from patch 6.1). The people that disagreed with you play mostly killer. Hack even I who calls myself survivor main play nowadays killer much more then survivor, because soloQ feels just that bad.
And let me tell you - even I survivor main consistently and long-term win in about 70-80% of all my games (meaning 3+ kills). So again. Killer is very easy right now. Especially during day outside evening hours. This is true even though I don't camp or tunnel people. Any more buffs to killer side and I would need to go afk at the start of the game or take just 3 perks to have any challenge. And I don't even use eruption or call of brine. So to reiterate - you having problems playing killer is pure skill issue. I don't question it in your case even tiny bit considering the video you posted here.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
I don't what you want this will not dissuade me
I dont play with slowdowns,as killer,I don't run anything that is op
I play with random perks that have no synergy
I don't play survivor that often like, I've stated
You shouldn't listen to papers unless you know for yourself?
How does your game's go against coordinated teams?
Also I'm playing against PC on PS4 I'm sure there's a difference in performance
These people you play on PC
I never said i want NOED for basekit,killers should have NOED for basekit
Killer has never been the strong side, there's only good killer mains who utilize their perks and slow the survivors down enough to do this
I want you to go 555 wins with your main
You make it seem wrong to play with a strong killer and theres also a difference in PC nurse than console nurse and if you main a killer most likely you become very skilled
This same argument has been going on since the games release with people residing swf needs a nerf,and some perks and items needed to be toned down , which is why the 5.8.0 patched happen BPN,Tool Boxes, Flashlight's,Hatch,Key,Mori
There is a large gap between survivors and killers,and as I've read from this forum people still feel that way
They the game is unbalanced,swf is to powerful,killer has no counter depending on the readiness of either side.Some one we'll lose
Anyone of you could have came with something else basekit like enduring,unrelenting,I don't know why you are focused on NOED so hard
You want Michael buffed but you hate instadowns such as NOED, Rancor. Are mentioned anything about instadowns and you get attack immediately look what they did to Oni,Billy.
I'm done please leave alone about this conversation I'm going to go live my life instead of wasting energy on this because clearly
What I'm saying just doesn't register and I'm fine with that
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"I never said i want NOED for basekit,killers should have NOED for basekit" This does not make sense. You say you are killer main and you want killers to have noed basekit but not you? Like give everyone NOED but not me if I am in game? Seriously?
If enemy side brings best thing in the game (coordinated SWF players with best meta perks and best items/addons) - you want to be able to win regardless? Even when you don't have enough skill for that? And you dare say survivors are entitled? OMG. If you really want to compare strongest stuff, then compare it to nurse with double range addons and starstruck. Or take spirit with MDR and amulet and 4 slowdowns. You can't cherry pick. Makes you entitled killer main.
How does your game's go against coordinated teams? Depends on their skill. I especially love to play against so called "bully squads". I know what they want to do and how to do it. So I know how to counter it. Usually that's a 4K at 3-4 gens left. However sure there are more skilled coordinated SWF players that actually try to win instead of mess around. Most of my looses come from them. And yet I don't ever feel like - I played it perfectly and there was nothing for me to do to win. It usually comes to game screwing me over (like with wesker hitting someone and that someone is released free instead of getting hit), or they being actually better and me doing bad plays. And that's fair. There are still many things that I have yet to learn. It does not mean I will call for immediate buffs for me, because there are people with better precision or better reflexes or better game sense then me. Again. If I did that, I would be entitled player.
Killer has never been the strong side, there's only good killer mains who utilize their perks and slow the survivors down enough to do this. Well again you are wrong. For survivor soloQ, the record in escape streak is somewhere around 34 games in a row. For duo AFAIK it's just 10. For 4man SWF it's 200+. For killer it's 555 and counting. Both of these full tryhard max effort matchup. And this is not just about nurse. There are winsteaks for basically all killers. Sure some killers have it much harder (say trapper). But even weaker killers (like Onryo) have 100 winstreak. Again. Compare it to 34 for solo escapes (and hatch counts as escape). Now knowing this. Are you still calling killer the weaker role? And again - official stats stating 61% kill rate for top 5% players for given killer? Do you even understand numbers? Why are you calling killer weaker role then?
I want you to go 555 wins with your main I could if I was one of the best. And yet I am not. So I can't go on extended win streaks no matter which side. I don't have experience nor skill for that. But I am not stating which side is stronger based on my own experience only. I base it on performance of best players in this game and on official stats. This makes it objective.
BTW one of the strongest nurse players that I played with (comp player that won a few tournaments) is console player. So don't even try to say console stands no chance. Again. Skill issue.
Also I would argue 4-man SWF is indeed powerful and so wins at about 50% of their games - making them actually the only fair survivor role. I have good reasons why I think it's 50%, but I don't have official stats. You don't either so your own personal experience means exactly nothing (same as mine btw). Even more so that you have no idea if you were actually defeated by 4 solos with good game sense or SWF (because some solos are that much better, that they have more game sense then actual SWF on comms. But even this will not help them play around certain perks like eruption). Anyway even this is besides the point, because we got official numbers stating that 4-man SWF is actually very rare and there's just no way you will get those more then every 10th game. If you feel otherwise, then that just means you blame your inability to win on everything but you.
And about why NOED? Hello? Did you check the title of the topic that YOU created? Anyway you wanting to have unrelenting basekit also speaks volumes about your skill. Please leave game balancing for actual people that know how to play the game at least a little.
You want Michael buffed but you hate instadowns such as NOED, Rancor. What? I never said anything about hating instadown and stuff. I actually think rancor is fair perk (as a perk. Not a basekit stuff). NOED as a perk right now is also fair. But the reason the perk is strong is not instadown. The reason why it's so strong is that 5% speed buff. Again you would know this if you were not a brand new player (I presume 100hrs or less). Also I do want Michael buffed. Right after they do something with both of his tombstones (or at very minimum tombstone piece) - then after this happen (or at the same time), I do think Meyers will benefit from some reasonable buff. On the other hand. Oni is very fine. I actually used to main him. Solid A tier killer. Sure he is not the strongest (he is by no means S-tier killer) one in game, but he sure belongs between strongest killers.
What I'm saying just doesn't register and I'm fine with that Well it does register. It just makes no sense. And it's fully understandable. You lack experience in this game to actually provide reasonable stuff. There always comes somebody new to this forum that just does not have a clue. Last time there was a thread that basically wanted to 100% protect last hooked person making killer physically unable to hook him again. That sure is also as unreasonable as your proposition. But it's understandable. People that lack experience just don't understand how much game breaking things they actually suggest. And that's OK. But they should listen to other people that explain to them WHY that thing would be game breaking. Also people that play just 1 side tend to be blind to balance and just want buffs to their side. The game devs should think about this one and instead apply some objective metrics (escape rate being 39% for skilled survivors right now).
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I mean I havent been trying to be patronizing, but to be fair, it's probably just me being annoyed for having to say the same things over and over, but I can explain it again if you want.
SWF has vocal communication, meaning they can relay information to one another without need prompts or perks to do so. SWF rarely use information perks such as aura reading because of it. Simple call outs like "Im injured and at shack" followed by "Im near shack, Ill go and heal you" completely remove perks like Empathy or Empathic Connection from being useful, since you can simple locate where you are.
When it comes to basekit aura reading, most people just want Kindred, as for me, I only want basekit Kindred, but I can understand why people want Generator aura reading, that is not my cup of tea, however I never mentioned my full opinion on such. Kindred basekit fixes a lot of the issues that SoloQ goes through when making a hook save. SWF can easily just say "I am going for the unhook" while SoloQ does not have that luxury. Often in SoloQ, time is wasted since Survivors run all the way across the map just to realize that their other teammate was getting the unhook; or the alternative of nobody going for the save and reaching second hook stage or dying on hook. This issue can often waste so much time for the team and lead to matches where literally nothing gets done.
As for Eruption, information perks do not help against Eruption. I have made other posts (which I reckon you havent checked out, but to be fair most people dont look at other people's profiles), where I suggested that Eruption does not cause Incapacitated and instead blocks all Generators affected by it for 20 seconds automatically. This new effect would make if effective against SWF since it's effect will always proc, but not the bane of SoloQ since Survivors can heal, do totems, or work on Archives in the process. It would be similar to SH: Pain Res and Dead Man's Switch but would affect multiple Generators at the cost of having to kick them first, providing a nice balancing area for it.
Realistically all of the changes I just listed (and explained why they are impactful as well) are aimed towards having major effects upon SoloQ for making them better to deal with. Im not saying that this is an "end all be all" for everything. Killer and Survivor has a whole still need tweaks to put the game in a more balanced position.
I want to push the game to where Killers dont need slowdown to do well, slowdown can help, but basekit should be decent and helpful enough to reward Killers for playing well. I also want SoloQ to not be forced to run information perks, such as Kindred, Empathy, or Bond to be able to basically play the game normally; this is ignoring the fact that these perks are often bugged in the recent updates and dont work as intended.
Ive also suggested buffing awful Killer powers, as many Killers do not have good powers compared to the high-tier Killers, if you even go through my posts (which again, I can understand if you didnt), I have suggested minor buffs, addon reworks, etc for many Killers, as well as bringing community feedback forwards to spark public discussion on such.
Im not trying to "hurt the game and hurt Killers" when I have literally been suggesting changes for both sides this entire thread (and out of this thread), both which push the game into a healthier direction. I really care about this game, I play both sides and want it to be as enjoyable for both sides. I really just dont want to see this game go into a bad direction, or make a hasty change without consideration (which is why I try to reflect the pros and cons of additions); which with the recent updates have felt that way.
Again, you could say this is very opinionated, since everyone has a different experience with this game. But I have been playing the game for a really long time, I enjoy it, not as much as I use to, but I do enjoy it. Im not saying "let's go back to old DBD" since old DBD was worse, but I just want to fix overlying flaws with the game.
Post edited by Iron_Cutlass on1 -
Locking this thread, per the OP's request.
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