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dead hard vs some killers feels unreasonable
I was playing some oni earlier today, blood furied, dashed crossmap only to be deadharded through a flick. I dont get why dead hard works on things like billy chainsaw, demon strike, etc. abilities liker those cant really bait a dead hard effectively. While on that topic, plenty of killer powers have precise windows where they can be used for proper value, like a pig ambush or a wesker dash. weskers got 2 charges so its more reasonable but its still annoying when someone presses e like its just a regular lunge.
especially with oni. the fun of playing oni is the thrill of the demon dash, and dead hard completely invalidates it. either you just dash past (assuming they dont have a window/pallet nearby) and loop back around, then go for a hit assuming they fell for the fake. the same applies to billy, just much much harder due to lacking a-d strafing. had multiple games where demon dashings for downs wasnt viable because everyone stayed injured for 4 dead hards... was painful. not 100% on this, but i think oni loses power charge when landing a hit on a dead hard during fury.
not really saying it needs another rework, maybe just have it not ignore instadowns (except for exposed, lets not buff noed)
cant even imagine how billy mains feeling about dh lmao
Comments
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Simply because I want to treat this as a bully simulator.
Yeah you did the skillful thing and got me with your instadown power, but I pressed E at the right moment and you get to pay for it.
Guess what? Me and my homies are going to press E on every swing you take. Say hello to a potential 12 health states per down.
Watch out for the flashlights and body blocks though. Oh your hook got sabotaged and you can't make it to the next hook?
What about it? Don't you have a gen or two to apply pressure to?
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Dead Hard is much more bearable than it used to be and overall more fair but it's still the same counterplay of waiting it out which isn't particularly fun.
That being said I don't know what they could possibly do it atp without reworking the perk entirely because as is it will always be the most brought perk despite anything they do to it while keeping it similar to what it is now because having a 3rd health state is inherently extremely powerful.
My guess is if anything they'll solve it like they solve everything else (with perks) and we'll probably get more killers and perks that inflict deep wound in the future.
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you can bait out Dead Hard with both of these
Billy's chainsaw you can feather it
Oni you can hold the power
Its a sort of mindgame for both, but is more on the Billy or Oni's side. If a Survivor guesses right on the timing I do believe they deserve at least something for it
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i dont think completely invalidating a power is really something a survivor deserves for timing something right, but to each their own.
should have explained more w billy, i mean you cant dash around the map and get a sick down, you have to just stop your power and either play like bubba or go for m1s
oni demon dash is useless v dh, if they have a tile its a lose-lose
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If you're exploit abusing then you deserve the DH.
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Nowhere did he say he was abusing an exploit, but Survivors always need to invent moral high ground, I guess. 😂
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oni flick is literally an exploit bhvr tried and failed to fix.
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Survivors invalidate a killers power for timing all the time. That's the bread and butter of the games mechanics. By timing your 360's, your jukes, your vaults, and loops. The entire goal of the survivors is to invalidate and prevent a Killers entire arsenal of tools against them.
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Never heard of it being an exploit. Any source?
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stuff like 360s vaults and loops dont typically directly deny you your value. dead hard however, does. If somebody 360s a dashing oni then dam they earned it, but if they dead harded when oni got too close then 1, the killer is stunned from hitting. 2, you got a mini sprint burst from it. and 3, most likely you needed to dh to avoid that hit due to being in a deadzone, failing a mindgame, or got outplayed, invalidating your mistake or the killers success.
"something" was too broad. a 360, juke, vault, etc takes risk or (for the most part) thought. Specifically dead hard. 360s need mechanical skill at least, and a killer can still flick you.
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what... how is using my power successfully an exploit? or are you saying its an exploit because you dont like it, like some kilelrs w/ dh?
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i dont think lunging with high dpi really counts as an exploit? think its just a game mechanic....
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Dead Hard is pretty much strong as ever. It is harder to use so less survivors use it so it gives the impression that is more manageable, but if you go against a full Dead Hard team who knows how to use perfectly it is definitely stronger than before (specially against M1 killers).
The only killers who can counter this perk are Pinhead and Deathslinger.
I always was against keeping the eye frames of Dead Hard, but I also thought that the shorter distance it gave was healthier. They reworked it in a bad way and now it is still the strongest exhaustion perk in the game and the second strongest perk in the game, only behind Off the Record.
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You can’t bait it out during a Dash or Chainsaw Sprint though, which is what the OP is talking about. Unless you are right behind them before you start, you can’t bait it.
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I'm not thinking of jflick. Turning 180 with demondash is the "oni flick", Bhvr tried to put in a turning hard cap for turning on oni but players found a way to get around it, aka exploiting.
Also DH is a parry. Parrying is as easy or hard as the other player makes it to be. If you're finding that you get DH'd all the time i got some bad news.
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So you just assumed OP used an exploit, and decided to moral high ground them?
I figured they just did a 90 degree turn to hit someone around a corner.
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Literally said he flicked in the post.
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Ok? To some people, that means 90 degrees. Not an automatic 'They exploited. Let's call them out."
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Looping is an exploit that takes advantage of BHVR's lack of foresight when designing the hitboxes. Don't see many survivors crying about that though.
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These kind of posts about deadhard are becoming a staple like those "nurse shouldn't be able to blink through objects" posts,, the perk is at its best
Post edited by Entitled_survivor on0 -
Maybe different exhaustion perks could have different exhaustion cooldowns? Imagine if DH had a 2min timer and Smash Hit 15s. This wouldn't make Smash Hit that much better, but you could reliable use it to dash to the next loop and with some practice burn through all the paletts in a matter of 2 gens.
Or DH could have some kind of token or activation system. Its bad enough as an extra health state, but you really feel the pain when a survivor gets away, hides and gets to use it again. So maybe give it one token per gen that you finish. That way the DH users have to participate in the gen repair process and can't just loiter around the killer, endlessly harassing them while tanking hit after hit.
For the longest time I praised BHVR for how they handled DH: it was nerfed significantly without "omg nuke it from orbit!!!1 Nerf it to the ground D:!!1" and for a while it felt even somewhat fun to get hit by it and you nooded in appreciation to that survivor.
But fast forward a couple of month and nowadays we are basically back to square one. The good survivors quickly learned how to use DH properly and now you regularly face 3-4 in the same match again, having to assume its in play every single time you catch up to a survivor in a chase and to the bait out game. This really makes you feel like you are a cool, bloodthirsty killer, second guessing every strike and living in constant fear of having your hard work taken away from you by "press E".
There is also so little counterplay to vaulting and palette dropping. Most loops are designed in a way that they are extremely tight, so nearly every time you catch up to someone they can just press e and laugh at you wiping your blade while they vault to safety or slam the palette in your face. I anticipated the DH a whole three times correctly by now and hit the survivor afterwards. Most of the time the timing has to be so precise that I either hit them on the last couple of frames of the animation, or I swing when its done, but they slam me with that palett regardless. Its really a lose/lose situation for the killer and that is really, really, dare I to say it? Un-fun! There.
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That survivor even have a "parry" aka extra healthstate ON DEMAND every 40 seconds is still a joke. This isn't dark souls.
Just hitting between 0-90° around a corner would be called a flick in my book. I didn't even know oni could fully turn around during a fury hit.
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Happy "DH is in the shrine" week !
Though honestly it's not that bad, anyone who knows how to use it obviously already has it.
I'm ######### at timing and the Oni's hitbox feels like it's as large as my fridge, so my personal counter is "baby going into a locker until power runs out". Not very efficient, but hey, Oni scares me okay ! X)
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It's "fair" because this community is absolutely obsessed with "counterplay". Anything you can't completely shut down is unfair and needs "counterplay".
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Dead hard feels Unreasonable overall There's no reason that you need to Take a hit and get free sprint burst back then it was some distance but now It's literally Borrowed time mixed with Sprint burst So it should feel unreasonable
Like if a survivor wants to annoy you You might as well hit them like 3 times and still be up and running So basically adding extra healthstate Paired with free Sprint burst
Overall This amount of 2nd chance perks are Mind blowing Like why the company is so Focused and Serious about survivors Making it to the exit gate and escape?
I mean i already know the answer but you just fill the blanks
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Cuz it is a Bully simulator
The game is basically Survivors running the game with a completely Useless role called Killer that doesn't have any use Except Giving you mental illness
You said it all yourself All of that For what? Proving that you're better than the Killer
But it's quite the opposite actually If you Play Survivor all you need to do is Shift+W to Counter Knight
And that's about it The rest Just Hold M1 and press Space when the time is right That's all
Killer has to observe-Think ahead-Think hard-Timing is Super important for a killer-and the chases are based on if the survivor mess up or not If they don't mess up which they usually don't they can loop you forever And you can't do anything about it You just go with the flow
This is Killer simply put
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To be fair, certain Killers counter Dead Hard straight up. And against some of the better Killers, that extra health state feels almost necessary. It's still weaker than before overall.
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Please feel as if I upvoted you 10 times.
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And as a consequence, we've created a mechanic that rewards bad play on the Survivor's part. Taking a hit while injured goes from being a detriment to a boon.
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Someone wake me up when we get a perk that applies deep wound on basic attacks
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As an Oni main. New dead hard is worse than the old version. Atleast then I could bail out of my run or commit to it with demon strike. Having a hit nulled and voided at the click of a button is a kick in teeth.
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"Cant even imagine how Billy mains feeling about DH lmao"
Billy main here, I dont mind DH, because even if they DH my curves, I still got the hit, which still does make for great clips, etc. Then again Ive always had this mindset of "I dont care about winning and only care about having fun", so anything that reduces my odds of winning does not bother me in the slightest... most of the time, since Adepts and Archives do exist.
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Lets be real here, DH is less unfair than it was before as at least it takes a little bit more skill/timing and it cant be used for distance now to correct misplays.
But DH is still fundamentally unfair as it is essentially another health state can can be recharged repeatedly during a single match. Sure you can wait it out sometimes but we all know there are situations where as killer you are damned if you do and damned if you don't and inevitably you are going to have to hope they misplay so you don't eat the DH (usually you will).
I have no issue with Exhaustion perks as such but DH needs to go.
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Dead hard is risk to use smart killer baits it out.
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Imagine if killers had a perk were you had to do some kind of check everytime you wanted to start repairing a gen, walking around it and looking for that smol clue or risk getting injured in the process. Everytime. And sometimes it would only proc while you were in the middle of the repair, giving you no reaction time and just send you on the floor, just because the killer pressed mouse3.
It would be worse then Eruption, and that ready has the survivor community up in arms.
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it may be at its best but that doesnt mean its balanced. it still has a 30% pickrate for a reason, down from 50. survivors who couldnt adapt swapped to a different exhaustion perk and the ones who did are just as powerful (if not more thanks to the sprint burst on hit.) Its much better than before but the ability to tank a down an infinite number of times (if played right, which really isnt that hard as a dh user myself) will always be unbalanced. had the thought that maybe it could never work again once you got value, like you could miss as many as you want but once you land it dh is gone. just food for thought, nerf was to shake meta and lower pickrate and it doesnt seem to have done that too well.
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yeah, wholeheartedly agree. on paper dead hard sounds like a great idea, and I hate to say it but its a really fun perk to use which doesnt help its pickrate. The power to tank a down will be strong no matter what you do. My main problem with it is like what I said in my post, and the fact the it just... removes lunging entirely. then killer is punished just for using a game mechanic because a surv pressed e at the right time, it the little things like that that make it so unbearable.
the pickrate went way down after nerf, but it just slowly climbed back up as more survivors figured it out. the rework hasnt really done its intended purpose too well, still the most picked survivor perk.
(completely unrelated, just randomly remembered pain res+dead mans switch is gone, replace by gen kick meta... nice bhvr. nice.)
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i agree. as a nurse/blight/oni main im probably biased about dh lol
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i agree, not all exhaustion perks are equal, and the standardized cooldowns arent very smart. balanced landing and dh are no where near equal, yet same cooldown. sprint burst i think is fine because of its high skill floor for effective usage, and a higher cieling. dead hard is not like that, just press e on a vault or pallet and profit. think maybe a 2 min cooldown would be fine, or like i said somewhere else a one time use when you get value so you actually have to decide when you need it most.
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lol, his hitbox is crazy. cant count how many times ive down somebody over map geometry.
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Ooh for sure, 1000% dead hard is stronger than before nerf IF it works, high risk high reward,, killers shouldn't complain about this perk now
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for good survivors it will always work, therefor it essentially functions as a buff
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Just for clarification, Oni is meant to be hard limited to 90° when flicking in Demon Fury mode. That said, it has been bugged for years, and with high DPI, you can push it up to hilariously high amounts like 270°.
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I watch a lot of survivor playing streamers, the amount of tines they flop because killer w8s out or just ping being bad is fairly big,, surely an experienced player is more likely to pull it off but its not guaranteed
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Yeah, but yOu CaN jUsT wAiT iT oUt....
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The oni 180 flick is an expliot. The normal flick range you should only be able to go at max is 90 degrees and possibly more if you pre turn.
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So in other words, you can go past 90° with a mouse with ridiculous settings, but cannot with a controller...
Seems fair
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DH is extremely easy to deal with on blight. Just bait it and use another rush.
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Current dead hard is annoying but it's not that hard to counter usually survivors kinda show when they have it. Being greedy at pallets or looking at you ready to press it. I don't like either that you have to bait it out.
Eruption only requirement is to kick gen and then get down and it synerges with other regression perks very well. It's already perk for killers like dead hard but better. Those who don't play swf has no counter to it.
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yea ik, just all those times I didnt expect it have traumatized me lmao
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