What is your bottom 5 weakest killers
So i want this to be a constructive thread that bhvr can actually use to something if they wish to do so.
What is your bottom 5 weakest killers, why do you think they are weak, and do you have any ideas how to make then valid killers again, with out beeing too overpowered?
Comments
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Im gonna give my list based on survivors knowing how to play and not being bad at the game, and if someone asks me to do this against the average player, then trapper and nurse are on the same level.
List (5 is less awful, 1 is most awful)
5.onryo, she is a fun killer tbh, and im refering to non condemned sadako, as condemned sadako is a completely different killer, but normal sadako is very easy to loop and avoid, she has a lot of sound cues to let you know she will attack you do you never should get jumped by her, honestly pretty weak killer but since most people are not good you can still expect good results, but if you face actually decent players, well..GG
4.Ghostface, my man is just an 1 killer with stealth, if you are not listening to music or distracted you can avoid him stalking you, but the mechanic is cluncky af, now he can expose you but at the end of the day he is an m1 killer and you can still loop him very easily, still he can get the jump on you at least one time per match.
3.myers, taking away tombstone which is bs, myers power is literally haunted grounds and budget coup de grace, much like GF and sadako he is easy af to loop, if myers activates his power, the only fear you should have is if he has tombstone, appart from it you can waste all his power in chase, only problem is if he pops it instantly behind you, but if you know he hasn't procd hes power in a while you can play to waste time before he is close to you.
2.freddy, what a sad fate has this killer fallen into, he went from something somewhat good to LMAO, after he showed he was a perfect noob stomper, but to make it short, his addons are worthless, his tp is way too telegraphed and has only value with certain perks and his antiloop is kinda cringe, still boring to face but easy to beat.
1.Trapper, I still get surprised how people give this killer free 4ks, you can literally never worry about him and his trapps and new maps make it more easy, he has to pick up his power and if you do not take dumb routes during chase, you can waste so much time, aside from the free 2 gens you get while he places his traps.
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My bottom 5 in descending order: Ghostface, Legion, Clown, Freddy, Trapper.
Funnily enough, Trapper is also one of my favorite killers to play. Just embrace not playing for the win, and gratification of a well sprung trap. Not sure what you can do with him to change things appreciably, but I would definitely have him start with all his traps, without the restriction of not being able to move them once set.
Freddy is just boring, weak, and uninspiring. Just a dude in a ratty sweater. I have a pipe dream where he is overhauled and replaced with the Englund version, complete with voice lines. Ah, to dream.
Clown is clown, not sure what I would do.
Legion is more fun to play as after their "re-work", but their fundamental, DNA level flaw remains; good teams will scatter and neuter your power. Still very weak against non-potatoes. Needs a total overhaul that isn't likely to come.
Ghostface is just meh, and the exposure mechanic is maddeningly inconsistent. I actually like SpookyLoopz recent suggestion of making his Night Shroud permanent, but having stalk rapidly degrade when LOS is broken.
Honorable mention to the Knight. Time will tell, but early returns are not inspiring. Hold W against him and profit.
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1. Myers
2. Trickster
3. Trapper
4. Huntress
5. Oni
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5. Ghostface - He's just a M1 killer with stealth. His power can be very map dependent due to map brightness and object spawns.
4. Sadako (The Onryo) - Love this killer, but she essentially has no power apart from stealth which isn't really stealth to begin with due to her "lullaby" that plays. Condemned is an absolute joke and doesn't even work most of the time. Her TVs take too long to turn back on after survivors turn them off or transport a tape.
3. The Twins - Most unplayable killer in the game.
2. Knight - His power is very weak and really only good for 3 genning and camping.
1. Trapper - Most outdated killer in the game. Even with his buffs he's still pretty weak.
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Trapper, Trickster, Myers, Knight, Hag
Hag gets worse for every chapter and with camera bugs etc she has gone from overrated to garbage. Trapper is probably the worst killer in the game.
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In no particular order:
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Freddy:
He doesn't really have a chasing power, since snares are too weak and dream pallets are too avoidable. Which means he only has his gen teleport as a power that can impact the match meaningfully.
He has good synergy with gen kicking perks since he can teleport to them, but why not play a different killer that can get there just as fast AND have a strong chasing power?
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Sadako:
Same as Freddy, but she somehow has even less chase potential. She really only works when doing 'hit and run gen control condemn," and even then it takes her like 40 minutes to win a single game.
She has stealth, but it's largely useless due to her lullaby.
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Myers:
Spend almost a whole minute staring at a survivor and your reward is Haunted Grounds and Coup De Grace, but now the survivors will force feed you pallets until it's over.
Probably the worst killer in the game.
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Doctor:
His static blast is there mostly to replace your lack of game sense as a new player. That being said, static blast is useful at low MMR since there's a lot of stealth players. But since stealth as survivor is generally not very strong and a poor strategy, so having a dedicated anti-stealth killer is just kind of unnecessary. You find yourself using static blast mostly to tier up people's madness level once if becomes easy for you to find people without it.
He technically has in-built slowdown from Madness, which is better than nothing.
His anti-loop depends entirely on if you brought one or two Discipline add-ons, meaning half of his kit is nearly useless unless you bring a specific purple add-on.
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Legion:
Legion is pretty often just a killer without a power. If the survivors split up, it is nearly impossible to get chain frenzy hits. So you'll hit a guy, see that there's no around, commit to the chase as an M1 killer, then down and hook him.
Also if survivors do not heal (which is a common strategy against Legion), there's really no benefit at all to chaining frenzy hits apart from some slowdown. But if you're running around putting injured people into deep wounds, you're not progressing the game and not getting any closer to killing anyone. So you're just kind of forcing a stalemate on yourself. Legion is... not a good killer.
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Trapper - Basement-Trapper is his only strenght, besides that, more or less pure M1. Corrupt Intervention + Deadlock + Double Iri is absolutely necessary to have a slight chance against a good SWF. However, he is fun to play.
A relict of the past. Flop-3
Freddy - has received over 12 (!) nerfs, his ability gets countered by Alarm Clock-Immunity (like what?), his power only works in dream (which would be fine if its harder to wake up) and his addons are the biggest joke in the entire killer-roaster (besides the Paint Brush). His killrate in september 2022 is happening because of his Lullaby vs. Noobs and his Gen-Perk-Synergy. Thats it. Getting slowdowned to 4,0m/s while placing a slowdown is another joke.
Flop-3
Knight - His power is literally AI - and AI sucks. Pure M1-Killer, bad addons, bad power, the PTB-Buffs will not help enough. As long as AI is in Place, he will never reach a better spot than C-Tier at best.
Currently Flop-3.
The Best of the Rest
Myers - without some Addons the worst killer in the game, terrible early game like Trapper, but some powerful addons keep him above Knight, Freddy and Trapper 2nd "best" D-Tier-Killer
Legion - annoying killer, yes, but his ability dont gives him downs, so he is a pure M1-Killer in terms of getting downs and hooks (besides double yellow addons on a small map like Haddonfield) "Best D-Tier-Killer"
(Just my opinion)
Extra: Twins are unplayable
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I'd say Freddy, Myers, Ghostface, Deathslinger and Trapper.
Myers and Ghostface are stealth Killers long past their prime. Outdated designs and jank mechanics hold them back.
Freddy is just...Freddy.
Deathslinger is a ranged Killer with a power inferior to every other ranged Killer. He's got a 32m TR with 110% movement speed and a max range of 18m iirc.
Trapper has almost always been weak. I don't see that changing.
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Trapper
Freddy
Myers
Doctor
Knight
If it weren’t for the Condemned strat, I would swap Doctor for Sadako, but I feel Condemned strat makes her better than Doc.
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As folks have said...
- Trapper. Duh. Not even sure how to fix him, he needs a complete teardown and rework.
- Myers. Take one or two overpowered addons out of the equation and he's bad. Nerf TSP, give him something in his kit to counter horrible loops.
- Demogorgon. Poor doggo...has just been left behind. Which is a pity, because - like Sadako, he has an incredibly fun kit. But he just struggles with the way the game is played right now. I'd give shred a bit of a faster charge and reduce the cooldown on misses/collisions by 15% and see how he fares.
- Ghostface. Another killer I love, but wow does he suffer. His reveal mechanics are stupidly janky and the cooldown on his power is brutal. Far too often he's just an M1 killer because you got revealed by the space a survivor occupied last match. -Rework reveal, make it a bit harder for survivors to do accidently.
- Freddy. Oh man, what a perfect example of how not to nerf a killer. Trash addons, mostly pointless kit. Another teardown rework, but start with the addons.
Onryo would be #6, but at least she can do stuff.
Not including Twins as they are scheduled for a rework.
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For the last time, a Twins rework has never been officialized. Why would you even think about including a top tier killer in that list anyway?
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Slinger, Doc, Pig, Trapper, Knight
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- Trapper. Easy to counter power, just look down.
- Freddy. Literally has no power besides teleportation, bit of a noob stomper though.
- Pig. Awful stealth and good bear traps don't mix well
- Cannibal. He's a worse version of Hillbilly with less skill and more camp potential.
- Yun Jin Lee. Her only power is leading the killer straight to your friends. /j
ok but the actual 5th spot goes to twins, they're unplayable and even when they're not, their power is just underwhelming. Victor can be held hostage by survivors.
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In no particular order: Knight, Trickster, Trapper, Freddy, Dredge
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Oni??? What??
He's in the top 5 strongest, not weakest.
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Depends. As long as Oni gets Blood Orbs, he can be very strong. If survs just pre-drop and play safe, he is a pure M1 for a long time. Not every Blood Fury is successful too.
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- Shape: Only killer in the game with a hard cap on how many times you can use his power due to the fact that maximum stalk per survivors exist. Also you can't even think about chasing a person in Tier 1 Evil Within.
- Doctor: His electroshock ability is constantly getting screwed over by the netcode. He really only has slowdown when a person is at tier 3 madness, and even then its really easy to break out of.
- Trapper: This killer spends more time setting up than probably any other killer. Is also arguably the killer that is the most countered by SWF callouts. Probably not THE weakest in the game though, cause if he gets a person in the basement early on, its basically gg.
- Leatherface: The King of Camping is really good at only that. Sure he has the easiest to use instadown in the game, but its really only useful at unsafe loops and dead zones. Accidentally bumping into things can is really punishing and surprisingly easy to do.
- Nightmare: His snares honestly just suck, they barely do anything. Survivors have to be asleep to hit them and even then the slowdown is minimal. Sleep is pretty easy to wake up from too, with 3 different ways to wake up. And one of those makes you completely immune to falling asleep for a period of time. His teleport is really the only good part of his kit.
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- Doctor. His anti-loop is unreliable, because it does not interrupt vaults before they actually start.
- Clown. His power is just pretty basic.
- Pig. Crouch is too slow, and rbts will do nothing for you if do not get them on in time, which is hard considering she barely has any chase power.
- Trapper. High risk low reward killer
- Trickster. Not the worst killer on every map, but i think across the board he is the most inconsistent and unreliable killer. He is the killer i still perform the worst with after hundreds of hours.
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Oh man that's tough. There's a lot of bad killers.
I can't pick an order but bottom 5.
Myers
Ghostface
Trapper
Onryo
Knight
With potential spots for Trickster, Freddy or Pig.
Moral of the story is all these killers are like really, really bad and have needed signficant buffs for a very long time.
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myers, trapper, nightmare, trickster, ghost face
- 5. Trickster - Really only good at camping. Being 110 murders and potential in chase and main event being on a timer means half the time you can't even use it. Add having to reload in lockers but not being able to hit across the map like huntress and he just struggles to create pressure outside of having a strong 1v1 in more open areas.
- 4. Ghost Face - Stalking is strong but no mobility or chase power means if you don't get the quick drop you can be looped forever.
- 3. Trapper - Actually not the weakest killer purely by virtue of having the second strongest basement game behind Hag and maybe Cannibal. Besides that though yeah no chase power and having to take so much time actually setting up and resetting your power is rough.
- 2. - Nightmare - Weak Add-ons, Weak Power and his only niche of using gen kick well is now done by everybody and they have stronger powers with it. Clocks are barely a slowdown.
- 1. Myers - Ignoring tombstone Myers is absolutely garbage, his only power is a smaller terror radius and occasionally you get to be a bad version on Oni but by the time you get there 3 gens have popped.
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From least weak to weakest:
- Sadako: Outside the condemned slug, ring girl has random mobility and semi good stealth. Gotta handle everything normally with maybe a sneaky hit here and there.
- Trapper: can go from 0 to 4 quicker than anyone else but requires a mix of luck, alot of heading, or survivors making mistakes to get there.
- Meyers: add ons aside, he doesn't have much an impact outside his immediate area or mobility to get where he needs. GF at least has paranoia going and stealth on command.
- Freddy: Also conditional mobility but will permanently loose spots as gens get done. Conditional anti loop as well. Pallet are fun though they are conditional too. Maybe biased as we miss older Freddy.
- Knight: the usual hold w is especially crippling to him and his gang and no way to make up for that time if dragged to a nowhere corner (don't know if the ptb changed this) Fun but often impractical.
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GF
Myers
Freddy
Trapper
Pig
Pretty sure all are self explanatory with how playing against meta builds are without one.
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Pig, Trapper, Freddy, Myers and Sadako. In that order, from the weakest to less weak.
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Of all sins a killer can commit, having an abysmal early game is one of the worst. Oni can be easily denied of the first hit since he has no anti-loop, no mobility, and negative stealth (being big and noisy). Good survivors will just play safe against him making him spend the first 4 gens in pallet breaking simulator. And when he finally gets his power he is still no NOED Nurse to justify having one gen left, therefore it is very unlikely that he will get a 4 man slug and even if he gets it there is still Unbreakables and Exponentials to destroy his hard work. I mean, that's if he gets more than one survivor in blood fury, since he has no tracking to keep finding multiple survivors in a single usage.
So yeah, garbage killer and definetely one of my top 5 weakest.
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So let's talk about Hag briefly. Once upon a time she was amazing vs solo players and sucked hard vs SWF. Then she got buffed and became better vs SWF. And then survivors got 10 seconds of free borrowed time off the hook.
That single change made Hag suck again. Hag is designed as a camping killer. There's no other way to put it as she is just inadequate in a chase unless you can force survivors to run into your trap net. You physically cannot do that on most maps as people with a brain will trigger traps while she is busy when they are not hurt. Hag gets a hit and then gets nothing for it. She has to reset traps and meanwhile other people are doing stuff.
-"myers, is easy af to loop, if myers activates his power, the only fear you should have is if he has tombstone, appart from it you can waste all his power in chase."
I'm going to stop you right there because it is already evident you have not spent much time playing this killer. Myers is viable with two addons and everything is just "not". You always play with one green stalking addon (your choice of stalk everyone a bit more or obsession a lot more). The other addon is either infinite T3 or Purple Tombstone.
The trick to playing infinite T3 is make people think you are about to pop tombstone so they play a little different. I find that nearly 95% of survivors physically cannot loop me as MM when I am infinite T3 and use Bamboozle. The increased vault speed and extra lunge allowed you to get hits 3-5 frames before most people got to a pallet. Sadly the 6.4 patch nerfed this setup tremendously as you can no longer stack vault speed from a perk with vault speed from a killer power.
The only defense against infinite T3 is pre dropping pallets. And that is why Fire Up used to be an incredibly powerful perk for him. When combined with Bamboozle in T3 you could vault faster than a survivor. Fire up made people think you had Brutal Strength and or Lightborn. All the while you made vaults irrelevant and pallet breaking very fast.
Many people on this forum will say that Spirit is a top tier killer. Spirit sucks without her "carry" addons. So does Michael. You're obviously not playing him correctly and saying he sucks.
Somewhere around 2018 I played him almost exclusively for 2 years and I can tell you he is very strong if you play him a certain way. Most people just don't know what that is - or they believe Otz's rhetoric that MM "sucks" because he is weak without addons.
Does MM need a rework? Yes. He should either not start with 5% reduced speed in T1 or he should be the only 120% speed killer when he is in T3. Combine that with a power change to be more like Oni where he fills the bar and then taps the power again to activate it so instead of 99% completion we have full 100% storage.
MM needs to have "multistalk" restored - especially in light of how Ghost Face got changed.
Furthermore he either needs to have the stalk thresholds reduced or he needs to have his base power duration doubled. He has to stalk way more than Ghost Face and that made sense when GF only had 30 seconds of expose. Finally Michael should probably lose the whole - stalk at distance = less meter gained. In the movies he stalked at a distance and as a comparison to GF he should not be massively weaker in that context.
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Doctor is the weakest killer.
His antiloop is ruined by latency. His power is detection - which a good killer does wtih game knowledge.
Doctor could be made to have 40m base kit Terror Radius. Give him an addon that makes his aoe shock do a directional forward blast that inflicts actual damage (but only to the deep wound state). Make survivors move 1% slower for every level of madness active - but allow survivors to remove madness whenever they have free time (not just when they are in T3).
Maybe give him an iri addon that gives him 1% movement speed for each survivor that has madness level 2 or higher.
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In my opinion...
TL;DR... Addon reliant Killers are here and it's my opinion so there can be disagreements
Trapper:
Starts the trail with 2 Traps (I think)... but can only carry 2-3 (I forget)... the rest are RNG'd all over the map... and in a dark map they are easy to spot... and the Traps can be disabled... all in all he's addon reliant (for what's it's worth)
Trickster:
Carries 27 knives (If I'm not mistaken) and needs to hit 6 to injure, and another 6 to down... aiming is a thing with him (and others but they get more bang for the buck)... another addon reliant Killer
Clown:
His bottles either slow down the Survivors or speeds him/ them up... not really addon reliant (but he's a real toss up)
Twins:
Can be separated... which leads to Victor being kicked and a pickup if Charlotte is late... and taking Victor on a walk around the map can happen but eventually he goes away... also the cooldown on switching for Victor to Charlotte and vise versa is to slow... addon reliant
I'm going to piss off a lot of people but... Pig:
RNG rules over her (Like John did)... her dash attack is subpar (compared to others) her stealth makes her slower and her camera is to low (for me personally)... and having her RBT's work off of Gen's gives her even more time crunch... addon reliant
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You put bubba and twins lower than killers that are actually weak like sadako and doctor?
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So my list goes like this:
- Trapper-the most outdated killer in the game, he needs a complete rework.
- Myers-good addons and nothing more. GF is just Myers but on steroids.
- Sadako-mediocre mobility and stealth.
- Freddy...poor guy he has been nerfed into the ground.
- Clown-he has okay antiloop and nothing more really.
Honorable mention:
Trickster-his knifes are only good on open maps and main event is a horrible power.
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I started playing trapper. . . Really for the first time after 2000 hours.
Gosh, he is way more fun than I thought he would be. I lose a few games here and there, but few killers are as satisfying a few well placed traps.
Now only if the maps didnt seem to hate him. Gosh I have gotten to hate eryie. If only the “darken traps” would make it look like the map.
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Sorry, what camera bugs? I haven't experienced this.
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- Freddy
- Myers
- Trapper
- Wraith
- Clown
1st being the weakest.
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- Trapper - no explanation needed
- Sadako - stealth killer with a lullaby enough said
- Clown - has okay anti loop and that's it
- Pig - crazy slowdown and that's it. she is bad
- Twins - Top 5 killers. that is when they're playable which is never
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- Twins
- Trapper
- Pig
- Freddie
- Doctor
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Just minding my own business and hearing the "snap" followed by a Scream Notification is among the most satisfying thing in the game. Even more satisfying if you are using the Honing Stone addon, since you dont have to worry about Survivors freeing themselves.
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Where's the notes that say vault speed can't be stacked with killer powers?
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Thats the funny part, there was never a note saying it (I think it was said for wesker or legion tho), but it affected other killers, like myers.
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1º Trickster. Lacks mobility, very slow to damage ranged power if hits, if it doesnt is even slower, gets destroyed on any high wall tile, his main event while extremely powerful is way too situational to rely on it except maybe 1 out of 5 games, 0 snowball potential.
2º Deathslinger. Lacks mobility, very slow to damage ranged power (shooting, reeling and M1 takes plenty of time), very good at chases but very slow at ending them unless you are godlike and hit every shot, requires way more skill than Huntress for a fraction of the reward, 0 snowball potential.
3º Sadako. Teleport is meh, stealth is nice, stalling is meh, an example of jack of all trades master of none.
4º Trapper. Slow to setup and gets crippled on big maps altough he can be very strong if played by good players and on certain gen setups, high snowball potential makes him score higher than the other 3.
5º Dredge. Teleport is good, antiloop is awful against Survivors who know how to enter a loop, its teleport during chase can be baited extremely easy by Survivors and make Dredge lose the chase entirely, the darkness thing is ok but nothing of note. I dont consider it a bad Killer but I think the rest are better than it.
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Why do u think Freddy is better than Sadako and Dredge?
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His antiloop is much better than Dredges. Dredge antiloop slows it to 70% speed the whole duration of the remnant, the Survivor will hold W and gain a LOT of distance while Freddy slows him to 100%, during less time and can be set in advance so you may not lose any distance on a chase, both teleports are arguably similar in power, Dredges is slower to get you to destination and gets you to a locker but has a 12 seconds CD while Freddy has 45 seconds CD (less with asleep people, around ~17 seconds with the entire team) but gets you to a gen which is usually much better and may be the difference between it getting finished or not. Overall Dredge antiloop is useless and Ive never seen any use out of it against decent Survivors (decent, not good or great, just decent).
His teleport and stalling are much more reliable than Sadakos, Freddy stalling is not that great but Survivors do go to the clocks to get rid of the sleep, you can have at least one or two people going to clocks at least once per game, unless you go for a Ring Drawing build most trials will end with Survivors not even picking a single tape even if the Exit Gates get powered and everyone escape, the teleports are very similar in power too, Freddy has a 45 seconds global CD where he cant teleport again while Sadako destinations have individual CDs (the place where you teleport becomes inactive after teleporting for 100 seconds), Sadako destinations can be deactivated by Survivors for 60 seconds by the Survivors while Freddy destinations can only be blocked by finishing the gen.
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It's in the bug forum where one of the mods responded. You can test with Michael vs bots using Bam and fire up with infinite T3. You should be able to vault incredibly fast - but it will just be "normal".
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Trickster has 44, and the main event.
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Sadako has a mapwide teleport. She has good stealth. Doctor with dms and pain res can hold down a 3 gen like a #########, it's near impossible to get around him. They're not weak.
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All weak killers can be strong with the right addons, but i dont think we should measure how strong killers are if we use addons, Trapper can for example be really strong with very rare and ultra rare addons, that dosnt make him a strong killer.
Post edited by Unknown2765 on1 -
Weakest first
1. Freddy
I'd make him a mixture of old & new make it so he can only hurt you in the dream world (yes he'll need 3 hits to down healthy survivors) but in return he can see the auras of sleeping survivors just like the good old days!
Make his dream world actually mean something again! Stop missed skill checks waking survivors, let survivors still passively fall asleep & use any clock to wake up (slightly longer animation or skill check to stop them using it in a chase)
Remove gen teleportation buff dream snares & perhaps give him some other buff based on how many survivors are Sleep.
2. Legion
This is tough honestly short of a rework I don't really play him enough to give valid or worthy buffs, having 4 of them (like there's supposed to be) would be great but we all know how the zombies work & I can't see it being much of an improvement unless you can switch to a different member of the team.
3. Myers
At the very least he needs an unlimited stalk potential or unlimited exposes. Sure he could find an afk player max out & murder everyone but that is very rarely going to happen!
4. Pig
I haven't played pig a whole lot for the past few years so again exactly what she needs probably isn't my expertise, but having said that so many spend so much time tunnelling survivors with traps on its little wonder everyone else gets out!
5. Trapper
I actually wanted to put Demo but unless Stranger things is the anniversary release this year (I think it is by the way) there's no point he isn't getting buffed.
So anyway pretty basic stuff give him all his traps & probably a second set of different traps for windows / pallets .
I play trapper a lot & I do pretty well most of the time of course at the top level of the game he's gonna get Hammered but so are most other non weak killers.
Actually i'd probably put slinger 5th but I hate using him so i'll leave it as is!
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Freddy has "right addons"?
I wonder which ones? I can see Red Paint Brush, but thats it.
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Fake pallets is really good too, but lets not de-rail the thread plz. :)
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Sadako has a mapwide teleport with a stupidly long cooldown and subpar stealth in her kit. Doctor is only at his strongest when holding a 3 gen like you said, which still isn’t good because that can lead into a hostage situation. Outside of that he's not that good either.
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Mine are Trapper, Trickster, Sadako, Freddy, and Myers.
It's honestly a shame that Freddy and Micheal are so weak cause I really enjoy their movies. Same with Sadako.
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Myers is definitely in it, poor guy has only his addons, and now he can't synergise with vaulting perks, so his one other selling point is potato.
(Honourable mention to Wesker in relation to that, not for being weak but for losing synergy with his own perk)
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