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Why did the killers start being lazy?
Why do killers after the 6.1.0 update, which increased the completion time of generators, only use a combination of the most boring perks for damaging generators?
Why does Behaviour itself add such powerful perks to the game that have several effects in them? Looking at older Otzdarv build videos there is, for example, Surveillance + Ruin + Undying - an information perk, a perk for passive generator regression and a perk for sustaining the previous hex.
Now killers get Eruption in which they can often profit for one generator kick until the end of the match.
They also have Call of Brine, a perk that for some unknown reason combines the information part and additionally regresses generators.
I'm waiting for Behaviour to add another perk where a killer after kicking a generator will make every person in the killer's terror radius Exposed, and the killer additionally gets the Haste effect, because why not.
Survivors, on the other hand, don't have perks that are so broken.
Prove Thyself makes you have to do generators together - easier target to hit because there's a higher concentration of people. Prove doesn't even give a bonus either, it just removes the debuff.
Resilience only works when someone is injured, so such a survivor is also an easy target for a killer.
Of the other perks, Overzealous requires you to find a totem and works as long as you don't lose health state,
Hyperfocus just doesn't work and is practically not used at all,
Bonus from Deja Vu is just a placebo for survivors that that bar at the bottom is yellow and not white or red.
I don't understand why killers are so lazy to take the most boring combinations of perks despite increased generator time, I don't understand why BHVR combines several perk functions into one, and I don't understand why completely nothing has changed in this regard in the last update.
Comments
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Same could be said about survivors using lithe and sprint burst. It is totally so fun to spend 10 seconds holding W just to catch up. Still believe that exhaustion should be overhauled to be a more risk return mechanic like how it works against Iron Will now.
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What are you talking about?
You can only have one exhaustion perk at a time effectively and it usually extends the chase to a small extent.
Lithe? I won't count the number of times during my 2000+ hours of playing dbd that I was able to crawl faster because I got hit while jumping through a window.
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BHVR took away my BP BBQ stacks. I looked for something to replace it with, and I came up with... Deadlock. It's the laziest gen perk there is. It's completely passive. It's the only gen/slowdown perk I run, and I only run it because BBQ is now worthless to me. I miss BBQ. I preferred BBQ.
BHVR: "We're going to shake up the meta!"
What they accomplish: killers run more gen/slowdown perks
Peachy. Exactly what no survivor anywhere wanted. When even I run a gen/slowdown perk, you know BHVR messed up.
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I play with a friend of mine as a 2 man SWF and there are often situations like "ok, we're moving on to the next game" and we just kill ourselves on the hook because there's no point in prolonging the game where there are 2 generators left to do, all the generators have an eruption on them and on top of that the killer keeps patrolling them.
I've had Deja Vu as one of my perks for a long time, but it still doesn't do anything.
Even if my friend and I go with the most effective genrush build - Prove + Resilience + Deja Vu + Overzealous, we can't do all the generators because the other people might just not do genrush.
Currently, I can only escape with my friend if the killer doesn't take Eruption with a build strictly towards defending generators, no matter what we take.
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There's no reason for anyone except a 4-man (maybe a 3-man) to play against Eruption. Might as well just beg for the sweet release of death. Even if you can win against it, that's not fun. Being incapacitated over and over again with no counter is not a good time. Spending 20 minutes trying to get one single gen finished is not what any survivor wants to do. The killer can have their kills, congratulations, I forfeit (if I'm playing with my friend, we may forfeit against that, too, depends on what our teammates do). Dying (especially dying quickly) isn't a big deal. Wasting a ridiculous amount of time in a miserable match, that's a big deal.
Post edited by TragicSolitude on11 -
Because the other gen regression perks were nerfed and survivors bring way more Prove Thyselfs and toolboxes than before. Apart from that BBQ was nerfed without any compensation. It's not like killers don't have any good perks other than gen regression but when these are so much safer, easier to use and stronger of course many players will run them. I hope they'll do something about that since it's probably the most boring killer meta in the history of this game.
Also the regression perks might be stronger but they do very little if the killer can't get consistent downs (Pain Res and Eruption), reach the gen in time or the survivors don't mess up Overcharge skill checks. Prove Thyself on the other hand will benefit you for simply doing gens with someone else. They also added Potential Energy, which admittedly is only a band aid to a deeper problem but it can definitely help.
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Dude people here don't like reading long sentences.
Just simply write
" I'm a survivor main, I think killer perks are OP , nerf them so I can have fun"
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it's the only thing helping slow down gen rush, which is default because the objective is dumb and outdated
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Go play some killer games without gen slowdown perks for awhile. That should answer your question.
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Honestly, it's nice to see Pain Res beating out Eruption, even if only by .2%
I wouldn't group Nowhere to Hide and Corrupt in there though. Former is an info perk, and the latter is probably the fairest slowdown perk in the game, and in some cases even prevents an early 3 gen.
As someone who doesn't run any slowdown besides the occasional Jolt and/or Thrilling, I'm not exactly struggling. Nor do I camp or tunnel. I apply pressure in other ways. I like full aura builds or anti-bully-squad builds, like:
Lethal + Nowhere to Hide + I'm All Ears + BBQ, Or... Agitation + Iron Grasp + Mad Grit + Haunted Grounds
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Only gen perk I've been running is deadlock. More than enough if you play aggressively enough. Very much enjoy the spirit fury/enduring wraith recently.
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Go try a survivor gen rush build, you can crank out gens in under 45 seconds, you'll see why killers are forced to run slowdowns, as they run into SWFs who run those types of builds
Hyperfocus, stakeout, Prove theyself, any exhaustion perk you want. Also add BNP + commodious
Then if you have 3 friends who have all those perks, try bringing 4 of those builds, making the killer spawn at the other side of the map, via offerings, and do 2 gens before the killer can even make it there.
Against solos, running 4 slowdowns, or even 2+ is overkill, but MMR matches you with solos one game, and 4 man comp SWF the next.
Also, have you seen DHs pick rate? Literally almost everyone runs it, and if the killer isn't that good(doesn't bait DH), its ridiculously overpowered.
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Oof. Okay, sure, let's take a look while I'm waiting for the queue because...I have notes and as you put a bunch of work in here, I'll see if I can give you a proper response.
"Why do killers after the 6.1.0 update, which increased the completion time of generators, only use a combination of the most boring perks for damaging generators?"
What do you mean by 'boring'? I'm assuming you didn't want to say 'overpowered'.
I'll give you a hint.
Look at the 6.1.0 patch notes.
Then look at what regression perks are being used.
That's your answer.
"Why does Behaviour itself add such powerful perks to the game that have several effects in them? Looking at older Otzdarv build videos there is, for example, Surveillance + Ruin + Undying - an information perk, a perk for passive generator regression and a perk for sustaining the previous hex."
Because Otz has been playing this game for almost 10,000 hours, so he messes around a lot.
Surveillance is a mediocre perk that nobody really uses.
Ruin + Undying were QQ'd about incessantly, and was thus nerfed out of existence.
Perks with a variety of effects are a little bit more interesting and flavorful than 'perk does x', and there are also so many perks in the game that newer perks have to be creative.
"Now killers get Eruption in which they can often profit for one generator kick until the end of the match."
Eruption is only oppressive against solos, and we can't balance this game around solos. It's also on BHVR's radar and with the cavalcade of QQ about it, it's going to get nerfed. After which you can get back to complaining about STBFL or PR or whatever the next 'I lost' scapegoat is.
"They also have Call of Brine, a perk that for some unknown reason combines the information part and additionally regresses generators."
CoB is an absolutely fine perk. It's designed to be easily countered (just tap the gen) but has a bit of a risk to it in that it also provides info. It would be substantially more boring (and crap) if it just gave raw regression.
"I'm waiting for Behaviour to add another perk where a killer after kicking a generator will make every person in the killer's terror radius Exposed, and the killer additionally gets the Haste effect, because why not."
This just reads as 'I had a bad game and am pouting'. Don't do this.
"Survivors, on the other hand, don't have perks that are so broken."
Hah. What?
Mate, have you seen some of the new survivor perks?
CoH?
Or, hell, since you want to go back in time - what was DH's usage rate, and how long did that take to get adjusted (into a perk that's still bloody powerful)?
"Prove Thyself makes you have to do generators together - easier target to hit because there's a higher concentration of people. Prove doesn't even give a bonus either, it just removes the debuff."
This may be the silliest thing I've read today.
Removing that debuff is the bonus.
"Resilience only works when someone is injured, so such a survivor is also an easy target for a killer. Of the other perks, Overzealous requires you to find a totem and works as long as you don't lose health state. Hyperfocus just doesn't work and is practically not used at all, Bonus from Deja Vu is just a placebo for survivors that that bar at the bottom is yellow and not white or red."
Nobody cares about Resi or Overzealous.
Hyperfocus on the other hand...
Hah.
Ahahaha.
AHAHAHAHA.
No, seriously, WHAT?
Hyperfocus is insane. It also synergizes massively with Stakeout (which you...conveniently ignored) and Fogwise.
Did you...watch the community cup?
Is that all Deja Vu does, or is it a nice little extra on probably the single best anti-3gen perk in the game that isn't PE?
"I don't understand why killers are so lazy to take the most boring combinations of perks despite increased generator time, I don't understand why BHVR combines several perk functions into one, and I don't understand why completely nothing has changed in this regard in the last update."
Sure. Let me explain.
6.1.0 was supposed to increase build variety by nerfing the more commonly used regression perks and moving their power into an extra 10 seconds on gens.
However, what happened was that BHVR not only left PTS untouched, but buffed other gen perks, then added stronger gen perks in that synergized with them. Killers thus will use the best regression options they have available, because...that's just what they need to do with how the game plays at the moment.
There's also another problem.
Info perks get redundant fast.
Chase/lethality perks...just aren't that good or universally useful. And they can't be, because that baits even more complaining than regression does.
So...killers tend to go with regression, because those are generally the best options available for accomplishing the goal of the killer - wiping out the survivors before the gens get done by buying time. Plus, if it's a genrush squad - you're going to need them. And even then, if you go back and watch the community cup games - survivors had strict limits on what perks they could bring. Even on fairly killer sided maps, killers ran Eruption and other regression perks, tunneled, camped, slugged and did everything they could - generally to get 1-2 kills total.
Now, not every SWF is CC level, but they don't have to be. Killers need to go in prepared for a nasty SWF, or else - if they run into one - they get destroyed and told to uninstall in postgame.
This, pretty much.
Hell, even a single regression perk often doesn't cut it anymore. You sort of need to layer them.
You're missing his point.
He's saying that regression perks are to killer what Ex perks are to survivors - the most direct and effective way of accomplishing their goals.
Deja Vu saw tournament usage before it got buffed. It's not really a 'do gens faster' perk, it's a 'here's what the gens look like in this area, so you don't 3gen yourselves'.
That's...not in any way the most effective genrush build, which would be Hyperfocus/PTS/Stakeout and x, where x can be Fogwise, CoH or an Ex perk.
You're playing with a friend, so the two of you should be able to frequently call out when to let go of gens. Why aren't you?
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Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
Don't tell survivor mains that their argument has no logic in it.
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Survivor perks tend to be weaker individually because there’s 4 survivors and only 1 killer.
Also, Prove Thyself "only" removing the debuff is incredibly strong. The debuff exists in the first place to not make multiple survivors on individual gens be busted.
Eruption and Call of Brine are overtuned as well, but that does not mean survivor perks are bad.
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I absolutely disagree with CoB.
Eruption is the problem here - and it's only a problem against solo players, and because incap feels bad (which is why myself and a lot of others have suggested just making it into a gen blocker).
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Oh, one thing I didn't mention in my reply (which was already...really long, had someone DC while the match was loading).
It's interesting that the OP linked usage rates and complained about perks with a 20% pick rate on the killer end of things, without mentioning a perk with a 30% pick rate on the other side.
Or others with a 20% pick rate...
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This post is about gen-defence / genrush perks lmao
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Because even with the nerfs Gens still fly stupid fast. And killers cant chase because everyone runs deadhard/off the record. Many games 2-3 gens just blow before the killer even gets their first hook.
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Picking the most effective perks is not being lazy
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'Survivors don't have broken perks!'
*Boon: Circle Of Healing Will Remember This*
This entire post reads as 'I had a bad match, so now I think all Killer perks are OP and Survivors don't have anything'.
So...A normal Saturday here on the forums.
Survivors with the genrush meta can clear a match in under 5 minutes. That 100% explains why the current Killer meta is 'Slow everything down as much as possible'.
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Killers bring those perks because they are effective for additional time against good survivor Teams and swf. Killers hope for easy teams to dominate but prepare for swf sweat.
It's not lazy, just prepping for the worst.
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No, you're talking about balance and killers having 'boring' perks/accusing them of being 'lazy', while also claiming that survivors don't have any overpowered perks.
Talking about balance in isolation is pointless and regarding the 'survivors don't have any overpowered perks' thing - there's an old saying about forests and trees that comes to mind...
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I don't think he had a bad match, I think he just wants easy wins for him and his SWF every game, thus why he ignored or downplayed all counter arguments.
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Amazingly said.
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You, sir, have far more patience than I do lol very thorough rebuttal
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Oh wow SWF players want easier wins lolol. My games are harder for the first time in six years BHVR please fix so I can go back to teabagging in the exit gate every game
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If you really have 2000 hours in this game,you should already know the answer to your question,but judging by what you said ("survivors don't have anything this broken"),I'm going to assume you are the classic biased player who lacks the capacity to see the larger picture.
Play more the killer role,that's all I can say.
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Not a small extent. People underestimate how much distance a survivor gains by moving fast. If a survivor has a 20 meter head start on the killer, and they both just hold w. How long do you think it takes for the killer to land a hit on that survivor? Couple seconds? No, much longer.
Killer lunge distance is 6 meters, generally i say 5 meters because of reaction time and lag and spins and such. So the killer needs to get within 5 meters of the survivor to land a hit. survivors move at 4.0 m/s, and the average killer at 4.6 m/s. This means that the killer gains .6 m/s of movement. This means that to close a gap of 15 meters (20 - 5 (for the lunge) it will actually take 25 seconds in order to do that. Exhaustion perks, can often give survivors a big lead vs what they normally would, especially dead hard, often leading them to extending chases by, 15-20 seconds at MINIMUM. 20 extra seconds is 20 x 3 more seconds on a generator, which is 2/3 of a generator or 13% of the survivor's entire objective, and that is just to land a single hit.
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with blight and nurse or spirit being there wich are 0 risk high reward u say survivors should take risk at using those perks? hilarious. those killers catch up stupidly fast even in those cases. if we got to remove certain killers we could talk about the overhaul to exhaustion perks.
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”Remove certain killers” lmao.
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I don't think it is laziness in many cases, it is just that gens can go VERY fast and it can make matches quite stressful for killers and those who don't understand how to create pressure can resort to artificially slowing the match instead.
I hate the fact you really do need at least 1x and ideally 2x gen control perks with many killers, as it limits the interesting builds you could use as you feel you need to slow games down.
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Idk but exhaustion overall is just not a good mechanic, hell running so much faster than the killer is just not good design. Sure maybe the small boost over a 115's speed from running blood pact and the blight syringe medkit addon/ bt but that requires an actual risk of having 2 people near the killer. Meanwhile exhaustion is just there where the only downside is not being able to use it more than once per chase (unless the scenario with adrenaline) and having 4 survivors do that against an m1 with mediocre antiloop.... you begin to wonder why killers are running a bunch of gen regression.
TLDR: Like nurse, exhaustion is also a contributing faster to being able to buff/nerf certain aspects of the game.
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Because BHVR doesn't understand that gens are a problem that needs fixing.
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Its actually a very simple concept:
What you mean by "boring" translates in "good".
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Turns out that increasing gen times while also nerfing gen slowdown perks hard did little to nothing in regard of slowing the game down.
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Meanwhile, OP completely ignored the still enormous use of Dead Hard.
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Op gets completely destroyed and never use the forum again.
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Its always the same. If u play a trash killer in the daytime, you are literally f****d.
I should play Trash like Freddy, Myers or Ghostface in the evening, only, when the sh*t-survivors come online.
Why do killers pick the boring stuff?
BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO. If u run things like Territorial Imperative, Knock-Out etc., you get f++++d.
Well, at least if you are playing an D-Tier-Trash-Killer as I mentioned above.
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screwed the vault
therefore your fault
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I returned to the game a month ago and during this time I up1.5 account perstige, this is more than 600 games, and in all this time I have not seen games without DH
In every game dh, but why don't killers play with different builds?
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Tbf just because survivors don't run the most gen rushy builds every time doesn't mean they couldn't or that those builds aren't powerful.
Hyperfocus + Stake Out is crazy and allows survivor to take 25 seconds off a gen solo. I mean hell I ran a few games of Built to Last/Prove Thyself/Steetwise with an absolutely juiced toolbox yesterday and often 2-3 gens were done before the killer got a hook.
Which brings me to my last point of the problem with your screenshot is it doesn't show items or add-ons. They're not bringing Hyperfocus sure but I bet they sure are bringing a ton of BNPs.
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I've looked at OP's screenshot multiple times. Someone help me out; Are they claiming that the top 4 Killer perks are used more than the 5th most-used Survivor perk?
Why did they underline Prove and Resilience while circling PR, Eruption, Jolt, and Brine?
Why did they clearly ignore the top 4 Survivor perks? Which are, BTW, used more than the top 4 Killer perks.
I'm lost.
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It doesn't make much of a difference that you've played 2000 hours if you haven't played Killer for even 1 of them.
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If it had come with faster gen perks being nerfed, that might have worked.
A bit blunt but honestly...yeah?
I must say, I played killer for about 600 hours before I even really tried survivor, and not only did it improve my killer style dramatically overnight, it also made me a lot more sympathetic to some survivor complaints.
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The top four perks for Killer are all gen regression perks; they're all of the same type/class. The top four Survivor perks have more variety in that regard.
I think we should give point values to perks and a maximum allowance of points for a build. Dead Hard and CoB/Eruption are four points and a build cannot exceed 10 points. Killers can run CoB and Eruption but would be limited to Bloodhound and Furtive Chase (examples of 1 point perks) for their remaining perks. For every member of a SWF, you lose one point. So a 4-man can still have Dead Hard in their builds but not Adrenaline. It would add variety and bring Solo closer to SWF.
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The worst thing about Eruption is that it punishes the team for the weak link as if having them there wasn't bad enough.
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So Gen kicking is lazy... but Ruin and Undying were ok???
Also if they didn't change the "meta" then other people will be saying what you are saying
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The top 4 Survivor perks are almost the same:
- Dead Hard: Negate a hit. AKA: More health states.
- Adrenalin: Insta-heals. AKA: More health-states.
- CoH: Fast healing. AKA: More health states.
The only outlier is Windows.
And the one problem with your idea is that it just changes the complaining from 'This perk is OP' to 'This perk should be worth more points' or 'This perk is priced too high'.
And SWFs would just do the old method of lobby-dodging until they found their friends, to get around the point limitation.
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do you want a killer who already competes 4 vs 20 perks to compete 2 vs 20?
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