The truth about SWF....

If you’ve played a lot of Killer, you should know that from the Killer’s perspective, they can’t tell if you’re running a meme build from the start. So they will probably play as if they’re facing a team set on winning.

Also, your sentiment of “goofing” off may not be shared by the Killer so you might want to elaborate more.

I’ve come up against 3 Claudettes with No Mither and Diversion sending me to Dead Dwag throwing pebbles near the shack while crouching in the grass. They thought it was “fun” but I don’t share that sentiment.

I don't care if you're playing solo or with friends, once you get a high rank Survivor is preschool baby mode compared to killer.

Survivor you can actually play around and win. High ranking killers get embarrassed after 10pm by streaming groups because survivor is pathetically easy and they need other ways to entertain themselves

I play solo and done good with my randos teams. Then the other half are just waiting for me to die :(

Tthe very best SWFs are completely insane with how much they share.

The point is that when we go "down a tier" and look at good players on coms it still paints a grim picture for balance. You can see good players coordinating and gen rushing with coms on every major streamer's show. Those games usually are not the ones that become youtube videos. I can only recall Otz showing one video showing how he lost some of his win streaks. None of the killer streamers regularly makes a highlight reel of them getting stomped by SWF.

This becomes a "big deal" when we look at builds like : Unbreakable, Dead Hard, Borrowed time and DS. That was the "SWF" build. It only worked inside a SWF because you had zero perks to give you information. Almost every player I saw that tried using it as a solo had trouble making the build work both when I was playing survivor and playing against them as killer.

When playing in a SWF it becomes a huge advantage if you have people using perks that give information to the team. One player can have alert and see a killer breaking a wall and you automatically know who it is before a chase starts. That is a huge piece of information - which is probably why we lost killer specific hooks.

When I'm playing killer vs 4 randoms it means I can use a perk like Bamboozle four times with the element of surprise. Largely speaking that means four free hits. In a group with coms that usually means they wont even go to certain parts of the map to loop because I have that perk. To put this in perspective the only way I get that much information on a survivor before ever chasing them is when I open a Twitch stream and see the survivor selecting their perks.

The truth is that SWF is powerful because it gives you information that other players have to "waste" perks to obtain and that isn't fair to anyone playing alone (be they survivor or killer).

-"Assuming the 4man SWF and 4 randoms are at the exact same skill level, sure the coordination grants an advantage. The amount of advantage is capped by the skill, knowledge, and amount of communication used."

Imagine a tournament that said let's have a "prize pool round" with mixed teams. You take player 1 from each team and make that a new team that does not discuss any perks or use coms during the game. You do the same with players 2-4 to make four new teams.

These players are tournament winning players who are now playing with complete strangers. You might end up with all four players normally being the person that runs deliverance. You might end up with one team of players whose job is to prioritize finishing generators.

After the first round they see what perks everyone else is using then you give them a 15 minute strategy period to rework their new teams. From that point on they can use voice coms. You would expect that if you did this over and over and over again with different players that the round 1 with no coms would always be worse than round 2 with coms and planning.

The only nerf I am asking for and have been asking for quite a long itme is : No Character, Item, Perk or Offering repeats. That combined with the new info changes to the hud would go a long way to make SWF not be 100% better than playing solo.

I refuse to play against teams that use 4x offerings to sabotage my hook distances or use 4x luck offerings. I refuse to play maps like The Game unless I have a killer (Nemesis/Blight/Nurse/etc) or addons that negate the use of pallets.

I play every game with the intent to tunnel one person out because the game is not winnable if I don't and there is an efficient SWF in my lobby.

I would love to see nerfs to SWF as well as Nurse/Blight. Nerf the three most broken things and everything else gets better by proxy.

What you mean? How do you know they are banned?

Honestly, on the topic of this discussion, I find the recent rise in SFW players very annoying. Especially with how toxic they are. I mostly play killer, but when I play survivor, I do so with another person normally. We don't coordinate, we just scream memes like "help me Jesus, Wesker is on my ass. Please don't eat my ass Wesker"

Thank you for explaining that.

No you can let solo players bring whatever - so if you see 4 toolboxes that means 4 solo players. Playing solo is a huge handicap compared to SWF voice coms.

If they had a GUI element to show you what perks your allies were bringing it would be simple to make sure nobody repeats any perks.

People just don't like the idea that SWF be limited in any possible way because they are accustomed to having fun at the killer's expense.

-"and since you picked comp squads it'll make a signifigant difference."

What you fail to realize is that we can scale down from comp two or three notches and whatever killer we find is going up against their appropriate level team. If we go down too far then there is no good information exchange and the coms are not valauble. But as long as we are above a certain level the coms give a huge advantage worth anywhere from 4-16 perks worth of information every game.

Do you think you would have no difficulty if suddenly you played a game vs a killer that could add 12 extra information perks on top of their normal build? It would be brutal.

When I happen upon a 4 man swf group with good coms that has someone streaming I usually stomp them the most. While they may play better they tell me exactly what to do to counter them.

This scenario feels exactly like cheating. Imagine for example you slug someone and they say well if he keeps chasing you I can use unbreakable. Therefore I drop chase immediately and pick them up. They will often tell me who has Borrowed time so I make sure that person is hit first so they are less likely to get to use the perk. They might announce which generators they are on and what % is left so I know to stop what I am doing and go interrupt them. They might tell me their medkit is depleted so I know that hitting them now matters. Sometimes someone announces they will bring deliverance so I make sure to hook them first.

I check the profile of everyone who comes in my lobby. If they look like a duck then I duck out. I don't play vs SWF and multiple items. I don't play vs multiple offerings. You can absolutely feel when it is a SWF vs not almost all the time.

If you added me and we played 10 games together without looking at each other's perks and then used voice coms for the next 10 games we would be much better in games 11-20. Planning and communication are valuable.