15 Things Survivors Don't Realize About Playing Killer.
This was initially 15 points for both killer and survivor, but I'll make that it's own thread as this was already getting wall-of-texty.
If you have anything to add, feel free.
- We know that not every game is against an SWF. And that not every SWF is a sweaty team. But every game has the potential to be one, and so we either need to come prepared or just instalose. And that's not fun either. Remember, we can't choose not to face SWF and can't easily identify them in the lobby - but you do.
- Ditto, chances are that if we're playing mean from the start, it's because we've had a game recently where we didn't play mean and got stomped for our trouble.
- You don't need to give us mercy kills, but if you don't have anything nice to say, just get out and get to your next game. Gloating and being BM...even if we never see you again, chances are that the next team we play against is going to suffer.
- Sometimes we aren't trying to tunnel. We just keep running into you. It's not personal.
- We may not be camping, but if you try to unhook right in front of us or literally try to unhook mid chase - chances are we're going to take the shot.
- We don't run deep regression because it's fun. We run it because sometimes it's the only way we even really get to play the match out.
- Similarly, info perks get redundant fast and we don't have much in the way of universally good perks that aren't regression based. If we did, you'd see more of them.
- Some perks are annoying for you to play against. Some perks are annoying for us to play against (or worse, some maps). It's just the nature of the game.
- Before you blame getting killed on our perks/killer/strat, ask yourself - 'is there anything I could have done differently in that game that might have helped?'. Play in a group (there are always groups popping off on the DbD Discord, 24/7, at all skill levels). Run at least some info perks if you're solo. Don't go for crazy unhooks. Don't try fancy stuff if you aren't sure it'll work. Don't trail after us like puppies when we're carrying someone.
- If you act cocky or BM, you don't get to complain if you get tunneled out. If you demand our attention, don't be surprised when you get it.
- Just because the exit gates are powered doesn't mean you've won. A killer is no more under an obligation to let you leave than they are to let you unhook. Being salty about this in postgame is a bad look.
- Yes, we all know the trick to avoid AFK crows by now. Stealthing around the map and drawing things out because you 3genned yourselves is no less obnoxious than us walling you into the poop room on Gideon - and honestly, should be no less bannable. Don't do it. And if you do - remember, karma is seldom fun.
- Understand that a lot of killers have a chip on their shoulders about the way this game has been balanced in the past. Certain perks that shall not be mentioned were at something like 80% usage at higher MMRs, and were like that for years. Combine this with how BM some survivor teams can be, and yeah - there's a reason why some killers go in treating every game as a grudge match. It's not necessarily your fault, but you can't really blame them either.
- If your lobby is stacked with items, expect Franklins and maybe don't risk bringing your best item. Because that's the best answer we have.
- Some of us will try to ease up if we're stomping, and at least allow you to safety pip - it gives us more BP too. Similarly, if you've gotten 4 gens done and the killer has 1 hook, maybe consider extending them the same courtesy? It's more BP/emblem points for everyone.
Comments
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Very well said good sir.
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- If you were actually good at killer, you’d do fine more or less regardless of your build. Also SWF ≠ good.
- Taking out your frustrations from one match on the next is childish. Grow up.
- Read above.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- All I’m gonna say is, there’s a reason genuinely good killer players do just fine even without regression on weaker killers.
- Okay.
- Okay.
- Okay.
- Okay.
- Okay.
- Hiding and refusing to work on gens actually IS bannable by the way.
- Taking out game balance frustrations on people who have no say over game changes is childish. Grow up.
- Okay.
- Niceties are nice, but shouldn’t be expected of either side.
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Nice Killer's rulebook for survivors.
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Sigh.
- You...didn't actually read what I wrote, did you?
- See point 1. Or go watch the community cups. Against a certain level of coordinated team, tunneling someone out ASAP is essential, as is trying to play for a 3gen. Now, not every SWF is a comp team, but not every killer is a comp killer. Go from there.
- Killers aren't robots. At least until we get a robot killer. It's pretty basic psychology that someone who has a bad experience will attempt to prevent that from happening again. Also - it's weird how the common response to people being butts isn't 'yeah, less people should be butts' and inevitably 'well, killers should just not be annoyed'.
- (12, but I don't know how to change lists) - Find me a single person who's even been anecdotally banned for this. I've looked.
- (13). Things that are unfair are unfair, and expecting people to not be a bit annoyed about it is naïve. Childishly naïve, even. Also - I see a 'I DC/AFK against Eruption' thread on the page right now.
- (15) And yet I see a tunneling/camping thread maybe twice daily. Actually, I could swear I saw a post along those lines from you, recently...
All I'm saying is - don't be toxic and then complain when your game is toxic.
Hah.
Hardly.
It's more 'this is what it looks like from the other end'.
The survivor rulebook is a meme, and boils down to 'let me win'. This is more 'don't be a butt, and understand what it can be like to play killer at times'.
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- I cant pick not to play against tunnelers/campers. Yet I dont prepare my loadout to face them.
- My first match against a toxic squad was as Wraith against old OoO, when they can see my aura ALL THE TIME. I went rampage on later teams for a week. But I understood that later teams have nothing to do with toxic squad. I never put rage on later teams despite getting toxic from previous one nowaday.
- BM happens on both side, I would say they need something to feel better about them, just move on.
I dont spend much time to type all of it.
14- Survivor's bloodweb now flooded with useless stuff, its rare to have 2 items in level 40 BW, while there are more chance to get Purple/Red addon also being far cheaper. You may easily see Brown Toolbox Medkit with Green/Purple addon. But dont worry, if I see at least 3 survivors bring items, I would drop my item somewhere incase killer has Franklin.
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- You...could though. That is indeed an option you have. About the only option against the potential of a strong SWF bringing their best stuff is bringing your best stuff.
- I don't rage, but I'm definitely less likely to be merciful or bring an 'everyone gets BP' build.
- It does, but...ugh. I've got about 250 matches worth of data, and another 100 I've cobbled together from streams. Survivors are 8x as likely to be BM as a killer, meaning that it's maybe 2x once you factor in the ratio. The reasons why are...well, I've got a theory, but that's another discussion.
14 - Eh...yeah, both sides have addons and items that need a rework. I'm not sure about purps, but I know that I have more green 'medkit charges' and 'faster healing' items than I have yellows.
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1.) You'll find that being in a SWF doesn't mean people are good. Most of the time, you'll be fine and you won't even realize it's a SWF.
2.) While it can be difficult to put the past in the past, it's best to go into each match with a fresh mindset. Taking out your frustrations on a group of completely innocent Survivors simply adds to the problem.
3.) If I get hard tunneled out (or camped), I'm going to stick around and ask why. That's it.
4.) Sometimes, that's true. Most of the time, it is not.
5.) Sure.
6.) People run max regression because they like making things easy. Same reason why people tunnel or camp or gen rush or stack second chance perks. You can usually get away with running one regression perk in most of your matches.
7.) I feel that there are plenty of great info perks. Likewise, you don't even really need them if you know the birds well :)
8.) True.
9.) If the answer is, "Man, I should've been in a 4-man" then there's a game design issue.
10.) Sure. Although, I've found it's better to ignore them. They get pissy and keep following you, thereby contributing nothing to their team.
11.) Okay?
12.) I figure if people slug for the 4K, Survivors are allowed to hide for the one out.
13.) I literally can blame them. They hold grudges against people who didn't do anything wrong.
14.) Sure.
15.) The game is snowball-y. I personally wouldn't take any chances.
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You aren’t playing against comp-level players almost ever. That’s beyond irrelevant. Good players will win the majority of their matches regardless of build because they are just outright better than most of the opposition MMR can give them. It’s why there was stuff like 150 game winstreaks on pre-buff Legion even with meme builds or adepts equipped.
I expect people to not be immature enough to BM. I also expect people to not be immature enough to take out frustrations on unrelated people. Being annoyed? Sure. Taking it out on randoms? Don’t be a child.
Circumstantially bannable. Not always a ban.
Don’t bother with whataboutisms. I think people defending DCing or similar are pathetic. And a lot of the complaints about tunneling/camping are also pretty dumb.
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- Zuh? That's...not how literally anything in this game works. No, in a game with SBMM, 'good' is relative. At your MMR, you could get put up against 4 decent solo players, or those same 4 players in an SWF. And SWFs...have, what? 15-20% higher chances of escaping. Skill is important, naturally - but all things being equal, you should be playing against people who you need your best to beat. If you aren't, then you're deliberately playing chill - or the SBMM system pooped the bed.
- 150 game winstreaks on..pre-buff Legion? On a meme build/adept? That sounds like a fascinating watch - where did you see this? I just did a search and the closest I'm finding is Otz on a 50 game streak. Before SBMM. And that was with the nastiest build he could muster at the time.
- You...play the exact same when you're annoyed?
- Again, even if it's circumstantially bannable - wouldn't you find some anecdotal 'I got banned' threads?
- I'm...not sure if you understand what that word means. A counter-example isn't a whataboutism.
- Sure. And similarly, playing killer doesn't mean you are good. I'm saying that SWF get no MMR changes, so you could be playing against 4 decent solos or those same solos in an SWF - which does confer a pretty big statistical advantage. And sure - but that's not relevant.
- I'm not saying 'I do this'. I'm saying 'this is how people are, and you need to keep it in mind'.
- What sort of answer do you expect to get, exactly? 'Oh, I'm very very sorry, what's your Paypal?'. Yes, I'm being facetious, but it really just comes over as sour grapes.
- I'd say it's at least half and half, based on both the QQ I see in postgame and the QQ I see on streams. I think ol' Otz even had a video called 'Tunneling everyone at the same time' based on this.
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- That word - most - is the key. And...as I said, there aren't that many attractive options elsewhere. STBFL doesn't work on a lot of killers, really. PWYF? Starstruck? Agitation? Enduring? Either pretty meh or extremely circumstantial.
- There are. But you usually only need 1, maybe 2 with LP. Otherwise you're mostly getting the same info from multiple sources.
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- There is, but not likely in the way you think. SWF and solo...you aren't really going to be able to balance around both. So you need to balance around SWF, while helping solos where possible.
- I love a good chase. But if you annoy me, yeah - bye bye.
- You'd be surprised how often I get called sweaty or unskilled for getting two kills in the endgame.
- One is over in 4 minutes, max - and is, at the very least, on the devs rader in a big way. The other can go for 30 minutes. These are not the same thing.
- They aren't. But they are likely willing to hold up precedent when survivors complain that their complaint choice of the week hasn't already been nerfed.
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- Eh...giving the killer an extra hook at 1 gen isn't going to snowball the game, or even giving them a few extra hits at the gate. I'm saying that mannered play informs mannered play.
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It is bizarre how hard it is for people to accept point #1: you don't know what sort of team you're facing until the match is already well underway.
So, if you want to win, and expect a challenging match, that means playing as if it's going to be a challenging match. Meta perks, not playing 'nice', etc. Just whatever you think is best for it. Can't change things after the fact when it turns out, whoops, nobody brought an exhaustion perk or something.
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man, you must be playing a different game --- or be in a completely different player pool. Maybe once in ~25 killer matches do I get something that fits one of your 15 points.
That being said, I do have the one or another cent to add.
- Fair enough, you can play every game assuming you face a seal team six swf --- But don't be surprised or do a pikachu face if all the not seal team six players are extremely upset about it and let you know.
- Fair enough, holding a grudge from a previous match against people you've never met and doing to them what you would've liked to do to the previous ones is only human. It's an explanation but neither justification nor excuse. Again, don't do the Pikachu face if people are upset. Hell, the only reason you do that is because you were upset the previous match. Don't tell people to take in stride what you couldn't take in stride.
- Wholeheartedly agree.
- Also true - but then again I'd say accidental "tunneling" is more of an exception rather than the rule....
- Very true & happens a lot. Occasionally I wish I could shake that survivor who is taking me to hook in chase and ask if they are blind or stupid or both. Because they're definitely not new and should know.
- On the fence on that one. There is maybe one in five to ten matches where the outcome would have been completely different if I had stacked gen regression without being completely carried by it. If you need to be carried by stacked gen regression.... maybe losing some matches might be a good idea.... --- that being said; if it takes you a co-op gen worth to get from where you are to that gen in a straight line.... then that's out of your control and regression the only thing that can help with that.
- Bruh. Spies is so underrated ^^ (I'm actually semi serious)
- Fair enough - but there is annoying and obnoxiously annoying. I rather have everyone stay away from the obnoxious ones.
- I wish I could say 'bruh, captain obvious' but.... it's a very valid point.
- Semi agree; hard tunneling someone out is a bit much for my taste ... but they sure are the first choice when it comes to applying pressure....
- True.
- Under the premise that the 3gen was accidental and not the by now probably well known strategy with a set of certain perks..... If a killer plays that way they got it coming that the other side answers in kind.
- Oh, I do understand where they're coming from. But I can still criticise them and I will hold it against them. Knowing why they do what they do doesn't make what they're doing any less bad.
- Very much so.
- I do hope "some" are actually out there. I do that as killer the vast majority of matches (survs need to give me a reason to not go chill mode when I realise I get what I want out of the match regardless) --- but as surv? Once in a blue moon does a killer actually ease up.
Disclaimer: I suppose I am a survivor main - but I do enjoy killer. Actually, the more killer I play, the less sympathy I have for certain people who proclaim that certain strategies are the only way.
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For some reason we find it funny how most the responses are just bullet point responses to the bullet points. If we may add?
- Killers often want to win just as much as survivors. Don't take it to personally if we chose you to hunt if your the objectively best choice.
- If you complain about A/B/C/D meta and bring W/X/Y/Z meta, take a look at the hypocrisy and stop it before it spreads (this ma y be a personal thing but I feel like it needs to be said)
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1) Sure. But a bad Survivor is still bad even if they play in a SWF.
3) I generally want to know if I did something wrong. If I upset them in some way, did something they found egregious enough to do that and so that I can avoid doing that in the future.
6) STBFL is great on a lot of Killers. Even if you have to ignore your obsession, I find it's worth it. Bamboozle is almost always welcome. Lethal. Floods of Rage. Nowhere To Hide. There's plenty of good options.
7) And again, that's two slots for info, one or two for regression and zero or one of another perk. There's plenty of options, just not many easy ones.
9) That's why we need to buff Solo Q to as close to SWF-level as possible, ideally at the same time as buffing Killers.
10) I remember doing that years ago, I think I stopped having fun and started being competitive.
11) Most of the people I play against don't really care. They'd have been salty regardless.
12) No, it's still over in 4 minutes. If a Killer wants to slug for the 4K, the last Survivor up is allowed to hide to try to escape.
13) Both sides will complain endlessly. There's just more Survivors than Killers.
15) You'd be surprised at what a single hook can do.
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But a bad survivor playing in a SWF should only be matched with you if you're also bad. You can't tell from the outset if it's four randoms, or four people with bad mechanical skill but good communication who only play together occasionally, or four people with joke builds, or co-ordinated meta.
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Ah yes. The classic "good killers don't need to do X" catchphrase. So popular, it should be on a t-shirt.
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Key word here is should and it assumes MMR is accurate and works. We know it does neither.
I can go from playing against someone like Yerv or Swarm to playing against someone with 50 hours, which happened tonight.
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That just makes the point more relevant, though, not less. Unless you really want to get hung up on the specifics of bad SWF players existing.
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Oh no, I agree that you never know quite what you're getting into.
It's just there are FAR FAR FAR more bad Survivors (like me) than there are good Survivors.
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It works more than ranks did.
And...50 hours actually makes weird sense - that's when you're right out of 'new player protection' MMR and probably your most volatile - a few 4ks and the system might think you're a smurf.
And will usually only face bad killers, once their MMR settles.
1 - And, once their MMR settles, will probably play against bad killers.
3 - Ah. That's fair, but just be warned about how it might come over.
6 - Bamboozle is a nice perk...but incredibly circumstantial. I can think of maybe 2 maps I'd get regular use out of it. STBFL - I think even solos are starting to figure out how to counter it, and it's very mediocre on M1 killers. To really get it to work, you ideally want a hybrid. Lethal is great, but I find that any info beyond NTH becomes redundant, and FOR's duration is already long enough not to need Lethal. Regardless, that's a handful of options.
9 - Agreed, but aside from letting them see perks in lobby, I have no idea how.
10 - I see it as part of the fun. A rival adds a certain chef's kiss to a game.
12 - Sure. But A. Avoiding AFK crows is still essentially an exploit and B. I'm not talking about that scenario. I'm talking about people dodging AFK crows while stalling the game out.
13 - Shrug. It is what it is. And you cannot deny that killer perks and survivor perks at the very least *have been* approached differently from a balance perspective since release.
15 - Generally...it gets the killer one more hook. Maybe two or three if they camp and survivors play the 'slowly work our way towards the gate' game. I'm not saying do it against an IT3 Myers or a Bubba.
- Shrug. It's not their fault - but it's not exactly the killer's fault either.
- Oh, I expect them to be annoyed. But...I guess what I'm saying is that toxicity is a big circle, and that it generally comes from having folks be toxic to you.
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- Keep in mind I'm speaking mostly from my own experiences here. I never tunnel unless I have to - and I still routinely get cussed out for tunneling.
- For some reason, I think a lot expect a free unhook. I have zero idea why else they do it.
- Here's the thing about that. It's point 1 again. It's the same reason I don't run Eruption; it may turn games I'm winning into a stomp, but it's not going to do much against that organized team which will give me hassles.
- It's a great perk - until it isn't.
- Unfortunately, 'obnoxious' generally means 'strongest'. In cases like Knockout then...yeah. That perk is horrible to face in solo and crap otherwise.
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- It's tricky. If you're tunneling on Nurse or Blight then yeah, that's a bit excessive. Especially if you're obviously having no trouble downing folks. But then you get that game where you're Trapper on Eyrie.
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- In my last 250 games, and ton of stream games I've watched, I've seen one person staking out a 3gen from the start and I don't think I've ever seen it in the wild. But yeah, that's basically griefing.
- Good...bad...this isn't really something that you're going to change.
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- I see quite a few who'll ease up if they're stomping, and I see more who'll let the last survivor go or duo get gate.
Just remember, it's not so much about trying to counter every team you face. It's more about setting yourself up not to get spanked by the crazy SWF who might be the lobby you're looking at.
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As for me, i changed my point of view recently about being a "fair" player. I promise to myself that until SWF will exist in the current form (without perks/characters/items limitation) i'll do what is needed in order to win the match. Usually i'll start chill, but if i should get already tryharders/toxic idiots i'll start to change instantly my gameplay... if things should get even worse then i'll go full tryhard mode, with the strongest addons and perks... ngl i don't enjoy using that kind of stuff, but if it will make those people cry, it will be a reward more than sufficient for me (in short words you don't care about my fun? Don't complain if i'll do the same then)
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How my last killer games went has no impacton how I treat the survivors in new games, and taking out previous games frustration on players that had nothing to do with it is immature.
Other than that, pretty good points.
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SWF do not escape 15% more. They escape at most, in highest mmr, 15% more. In average they escape only a few % more, which would be barely noticeable on the scale of 100 games.
That being said you did specify a difference between good SWF and average SWF, which is rare so I appreciate it ! =)
However, I don't think your argument that you could find teammates on the DbD Discord is very fair. You shouldn't have to play with strangers to enjoy the game. I made friends in this game, but it takes weeks of playing together without comms (besides steam messages) before I feel comfortable enough to talk to them on voice chat. Strangers have expectations. Especially in this kind of community...
I don't remember all your points, I'm terribly sorry. I'm on my phone right now and scrolling is not optimal.
I do think it's unfair and a bit unhealthy to take out your frustrations on teams that have done nothing wrong, or on survivors who did not ask to have a toxic teammate. I do understand how it can happen ! And it sucks that they had bad games before. But killer won't have much sympathy from me.
Next point is not really from your original post but more so an answer you gave someone earlier : that SWF don't know if they're facing a camper or tunneler and that just in case they should prepare for it, the same way killers prepare for top SWF. I don't think it's very fair either. Killer could bring any build or 4 slowdown and still have fun because of their power. Getting a good Frenzy chain is never not fun. Getting fancy shots on Deathslinger or Huntress is never not gonna be satisfying ! =D
Survivors... The only fun they get is from their perks and coordinated action. The latter is unfrequent when you're not in a full SWF, and the former would be gone if they had to always take anti-tunnel or anti-camping, perks that handicap them if the killer is fair (by sacrificing 2 spots that are now useless) and are only useful in a game that is not fun.
That comment is such a mess. I should have gone for numbers. Sorry ! =(
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I guess i could add
1. if you start bodyblocking me with your borrowed time + DS i will tunnel you. Borrowed time is given to you to get away from the killer not to bodyblock and be in their face. Don't yell TUNNELER in the endgame when you were in their face after getting unhooked.
2. Even good killers can lose the match with good perks because this game is full of RNG. There are bad maps and survivors can be loaded with good perks.
3. Not all of us tunnel, but when theres 2 gens left some of us will turn the pressure to you and start be meaner at that point. Its not personal we just realise its time to stop being fair
4. We want to have fun too. Do survivors care about it?
5. Most of us play both sides. We know the struggles on both sides and arent biased.
Post edited by Hannacia on1 -
I'll take Tell Me You Are A Killer Main While Saying You Are Not for 200 Alex.
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I appreciate the joke, but nowhere are they claiming to not be a killer main.
You can have insights on both roles while maining one. =)
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I would not give killer free hook the risk it too big that it backfires. Once I did give to huntress free hook while looping her 4 gens all teammates went down while trying to get save while she facecamped. Only if killer start to farm I would give hooks.
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- I mean, survivors also don't know what killer they go against. I don't see the advantage
- What do you want to say by "mean", playing good or trying to tunnel and camp at 4 or 5 gens? Because if it's just giving it your all, well good, its game. You don't have to be an a**
- I don't care honestly, because i am on console, i always like to be on the exit gate, it's like saying goodbye or GGs. I never intended it to be toxic, mostly xD
- Same xD, some survivors really get salty about that, it's kinda funny
- I mean, why wouldn't you xD
- Meh, debatable. I think most killers just use it because it's easy to use. Probably holds you back against very good teams tho, since you would need other perks to get more consistent downs and earlier
- Hmm, again regression is just easier. But honestly i feel like killers get way more good to very good perks than survivor. I always have more fun doing a killer build than a survivor, it feels way more limited
- Yeah, nothing to say
- True, tho i feel like there is an equivalent for killer that i hope you mention in your next post xD
- True
- True
- Stalling a game is so boring, pls survivors just let the game finish when it's over, what do you gain from hiding in corners or making yourself unhoockable and dumb stuff like that. But the current 3 gen stall meta is still the worst
- Hmm, i don't want to comment, except that i think most people just want the game to enjoyable for both parties, and the mentality of us vs them is bad for discourse in the game
- It's fair xD, I will still bring what i want xD, either that be stacked toolbox/medkit or franklin's
- I will actually agree that killers do that way more than survivors, even if most of them only do it after tunneling a survivor out of the game so early he must have gotten like 4K BPs (definitely not salty xD), but honestly i never see survivors do the opposite. Don't know why, but i assume it's because the Killer is assumed to be the Power role and survivor well survives. Even if the meta has most of the time favoured survivors maybe that type of thinking is just inherent.
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I mostly agree but I don't think letting your frustrations out on other players by deliberately ruining their games is a healthy coping mechanism. I've done it before sadly but the survivors that were hit by that didn't really deserve it (except 1 macro squad that made me mute the game).
Some points I would like to add:
If you encounter a nice and chill killer that won't resort to playing mean even when the match looks bad, please don't be rude in end game chat. It doesn't make you a better player, it doesn't make your win any more impressive but it sure as hell will make that killer consider changing their play style, eventually.
The faster the gens go and the more efficient you play, the more likely the killer is to do everything in their power to stop that. That means Tunneling, Camping or equipping stronger perks (mostly gen regression) and addons as well as switching to a higher tier killer.
You don't need to offer hooks or kills. But the 2 letters 'gg' can go a long way.
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MMR is more reliable than rank-based matchmaking was but still inconsistent, and for players above the softcap, they get matched with worse players just off the fact there’s not enough people at their own level for queues to be quick.
Raging_Ryuga did it on his Twitch channel. It wasn’t even a formal winstreak attempt. He just was playing and noticed he hadn’t lost in a while and decided to see how long he could keep it going, but didn’t bother going super all out for it. He did games where he did serious builds, but also games where he ran only Legion’s perks, and games where he did only meme builds, and all of this was on pre-buff Legion. And in doing so ended up getting 150.
I’ve gotten past the point of tilting in DBD to the point it affects gameplay. Even for the things I complain most about on these forums, they don’t tilt me in game, I just think they’re issues that need to be addressed.
Multiple official BHVR posts that state it can be potentially bannable is enough evidence for me. Also a reminder that ban appeals or talking about previous bans and so on is against forum rules. So of course you won’t find much.
I called it whataboutism because people being stupid about defending ragequitting or making dumb complaints about tunneling/whatever doesn’t make things like taking out frustrations on a completely new innocent lobby of players not also stupid.
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- You are playing a team-coordinated game. Survivors trying to play together to WIN should be an expectation. If you don't find it fun to face people playing as a team and trying hard to win, then perhaps killer is not for you.
- Don't take out your past games on a set of new survivors, same goes for the other side. If you cannot separate the game from reality/emotions then maybe you should take a break from playing tbh.
- As above, people are always going to be #########. Learn to not take it personal and separate a game from reality. People SHOULDNT BM but people will do what they want.
- Just because you keep running into the same survivor, doesn't mean you have to chase that survivor. Lol. It's not like the next survivor is gonna be 100 miles away.
- ? Okay..
I can't be bothered to answer the rest, because it always feels like rinse and repeat of just excuses. If you're gonna play #########, or be a jerk to the next set of survivors just because you had a bad day or a bad game, just own it instead of trying to excuse it. Emotional control and self-reflection is a good skill to have, not just for gaming.
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As far as 1,2 and 13 is concerned ; sure, it's to some degree just how it is in this game and it would take being proactive in purposefully avoiding mechanics that can lead to to it happening on both sides. - Which isn't really something you can expect players to do. It's the devs job to make it so it can't happen in the first place. - That being said; those who get upset about it have every right to be upset about it and make it known.
4 and 5 - that's just where our experiences differ, I guess. I think during my past.... 50-ish matches (or however many matches you can do in a 15 hour timespan) I had survs making their frustrations known maybe... twice.
6 - exactly. Which is also why I don't run it. (Except on doctor... but I just got that killer and the overcharge+eruption paired with two meme perks is too much fun to pass on. Now I just need to remember to actually kick gens. 😂Even if I have it I kick gens maybe... 5-6 times on average per match. - Though, there have been matches where I could tell that those two or three Euption procs impacted the match way too much.)
7 - T-T it's great. I love it.
8 - This is exactly what I was thinking about ^^ and yes, I mean knockout-level annoyingly obnoxious perks.
10 - I see your point - but again, I guess our experiences just differ there.
12 - Oh you lucky one. The reason COH + Botany have made a return to one of my go-to loadouts and I flat out refuse to take Distortion off now is because we keep running into this once at least every ten matches. It's more or less an even split between 3gen, hard tunneling, camping and normal matches for me. 3Genning is mostly on Knight, Shocktor, Whiskers and Demo. Eruption, COB, Overcharge/Oppression/whatever the killer likes + Nowhere to Hide. The thing is, if you're SoloQ it's often hard to tell that a killer is deliberately holding a three gen and refusing to leave that area. In swf you realise rather quickly that a killer has a certain "parameter" they refuse to leave. Then prep work begins to set stuff up to tackle that three(/four) gen. - As Solo it's also infinitely easier to accidentally three gen yourself. The times I turn around on a map, not having paid much attention to which gens got done, and go 'well, you guys just f*ed yourself'.
15 - Can we please exchange lobbies * puppy eyes * I want those killers too.
"Just remember, it's not so much about trying to counter every team you face. It's more about setting yourself up not to get spanked by the crazy SWF who might be the lobby you're looking at." ---- 100% agree to the first part, as for the second part. With how MMR works and how mixed the bag is even at the "highest level", aka soft cap ... which is rather low to begin with... you just don't run into these lobbies consistently. Even on my main - who is most definitely past the soft cap - I see those lobbies maybe in one or two of ten matches. And I rather have fun during all the other matches instead of always being prepared for that eventuality. Which not everyone has to do, I do get that - but at least to me that's the far more sensible and enjoyable approach. If the seal team six genrush squad wants to have five minute match they can be my guest.
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You sound like a real Yun-Jin
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4 especially is something I wish people were more aware of. I get accused of tunneling a lot when I just keep bumping into the same person by pure coincidence.
Also there are so many times where I was patrolling an area and I head back to hook, and the survivor gets unhooked while I'm already on my way back. When I get back, lo and behold theres an injured survivor but the person who unhooked them is nowhere to be seen. In that scenario, Im not chasing you to tunnel you, Im chasing you because you're the only one I see.
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- Okay...but that's not what we're talking about. 'Good' does not mean 'MMR capped' either.
- Raging_Ryuga did a 150 win streak on Legion with weird perks pre-rework? I literally can't find any mention of this whatsoever...and it's something you'd think people would be all over. Let me see if I can get ahold of him on his Discord when I get back in, because that's amazing.
- Which BHVR posts?
- Okay...but that's not whataboutism.
- Killers can't play in an SWF. Although that would be sort of fun.
- Playing mean - yeah. Tunneling someone out, running strong perks and addons etc. Basically the opposite of playing chill.
- Okay...
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- Because for some reason people like to compare this to camping.
- Generally, I see strong players run 2-3 regression perks, with the goal being to layer them.
- I'd love some better chase perks.
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- I'll be doing the survivor version in due course.
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- Shrug. Both are obnoxious.
- I agree. But it's sort of inevitable.
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- I don't think that killer has ever been considered the power role.
I'm generally a Cheryl or a Feng, actually :)
- That's...not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that we need to come loaded for bear because we might be facing an SWF next, even if it seems like overkill against solos.
- I don't think the majority of human beings can do that at all, and even those that can struggle to do it well. Hell, even Otz loses his cool once in a while.
- Shrug. Once again, you can't blame someone for getting irritated at irritating behavior.
- What? Yeah, no. Passing up a chase against someone vulnerable is how you can lose a game right then and there.
An explanation isn't an excuse. And I'm not saying me. I'm saying 'this is what people are like'.
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To your point about MMR: NA East is either a skill void or MMR breaks for genuinely skilled killers above the soft cap. I play on the same server as Ryuga (used to scrim his team when he did comp as well), and...yeah, it very rarely gives you a good killer match. I think survivors did a total of 4 gens in 5 games last night. BHVR states that SBMM's goal is a 50% win rate, but it struggles to even give you survivors that can complete gens once you reach a certain point. A big part of that is due to the fact that it doesn't search for matches on multiple servers, which is good and bad. Good because DbD gameplay really suffers once you hit 100 ping. Bad because there might not be anyone queued up on a server for someone at 1900 MMR at any given moment, but there might be 500 people queued up at 1500 MMR. It's a terrible match up, but they'd rather get people in game.
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In regard to killer perks i generally bring about 1 or 2 gen perks, the rest goes to information, anti heal, utility, chase perks. Idk, i just have fun constantly changing my loadout and trying new things, yes this is very killer dependent, but i think is the most fun part of playing killer, makes me feel like a schemer creating a challenge for survivors to overcome xD
When i bring 4 gen perks, i get bored really quickly, yeah i probably win more and easier, but also makes the game last longer and makes my gameplay sloppier. I start to feel like i didn't deserved the win.
I did gain a recent Love for Blood favor, kinda risky because its Hex, but its so fun to use and negate strong pallets, especially in maps with lots of pallets close together.
Honestly i would love if the meta for both survivor and killer was more decided around chases. I would love for both survivors and killers to get better chase perks, instead of the constant number and gen perks
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Another thing that seems to be being overlooked:
"Taking out a bad game on the next group" doesn't mean being a complete jerk about everything. It can also just mean "after these really annoying losses, I'm going to play a much stronger build, with stronger addons, and not give chances."
If people think it's petty to respond to a string of losses with trying to win, I'm really confused.
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I will absolutely blame people for #13, taking frustrations with balance/unrelated players out on someone with no power over game balance or relation to the players that wronged someone is a completely ridiculous thing to do.
The community would instantly improve if everyone that has ever done that with any regularity was prevented from ever playing the game again, no matter if they did it as killer, survivor or both. Unfortunately I also feel it would cause quite a few players to vanish, as it's bizarrely accepted and at times almost glorified in this community.
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I'm more talking about being much less receptive to survivors saying 'well, that perk is OP why hasn't it been nerfed yet lol BHVR only support killers lol'.
Bingo.
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That didn't really seem like what you meant in that case, it seemed more like the concept of "vent games" from how I read it where people have a bad match A and then go into match B with their primary objective being "lets make these people have a bad game too!", going beyond merely trying harder to win.
If it's about people simply putting on stronger stuff after losses then yeah, I have no real problems with that. But that's just not what I associate with terms like "grudge match".
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I don't speak for everyone who uses this expression, but as an example :
The other day, I played a game against a Bubba on RPD. You can guess his strategy. (Hint : He had Insidious)
Every survivor went for trades at the right time, and I took the last shift so that I'd die on hook and teammates escape.
When confronted in the chat by my teammates (random, we were all solos to my knowledge) who said they'd report him, he said that he used to be a killer who played fair, a good hearted Legion main, who had been clowned on too many times and that now he was a camping Bubba, because the only enjoyment he has anymore is seeing people rage after being camped. He concluded that by saying "You survivors made me this way", even though obviously we've never met.
I didn't mind, team got out and it was only one game out of many I played that evening. But it's what I think about when I say "taking your frustrations into other games is unhealthy", for the killer as well as the survivors.
Post edited by HugTheHag on4 -
Thank you for your insight as I am a solo survivor main. I don't do swfs, but I did in the past just for fun and even though we were swf/communicating, we still lost many matches; there are really some skilled killers out there who don't tunnel/camp so I give them a lot of respect.
I play as a solo survivor 99% of the time and I never teabag or wait by the exit gate just to waste the killer's time, I respect everyone's time and I expect the same.
As survivors especially those who play solo, we experience a lot of crap from killers like getting slugged, camped, and tunneled out within the first 3 mins of the game (just because they want to and make it miserable for survivors) and I tend to think that on both sides we take our frustration out on one another.
I'm part of some dbd forums/pages on FB, I've seen more toxicity from killers than survivors (that's just my observation) and they always post videos and pictures of leaving survivors to bleed out on the floor just for kicks or tunneling all 4 survivors just b/c they know how much we hate it. Those are the type of killers that BHVR needs to address because it's ruining the game for everyone.
It's not fun, at all... on both side.
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Soft capped doesn’t mean good, but good players are among the soft capped players. BHVR also mentioned this on a Q&A stream that there were a small portion of people who had like 3000 MMR and had to be matched with worse players so their queues wouldn’t take literally hours.
BHVR Posts:
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Ah, okay - that Peanits post is pretty conclusive.
The cap thing is tricky, because it used to be stricter, but people complained that their matches were too sweaty and their queues too long, so they relaxed it.
Heading home shortly, will ask Ryuga about that 150 wins Legion streak you said he did. Very curious if he's got some videos from that era, as that's pretty incredible - considering the only similar streaks I can think of either involved someone deranking or playing much stronger killers.
Nah. That's also not the sort of 'vent game' I'm referring to. It's more along the lines of 'okay, well that last game I played a chill Demo with a flan into a comp squad who were jerks, so I'm going back to my stacked Blight'.
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The cap thing is an issue that multiple games have, yeah. The percent of players at a given level continuously shrink as you move into the high levels. And then the dilemma is making their game queues take forever, or making people who would absolutely 1000% get stomped by these players have to play against said players. I think another part of the issue is because DBD has a smaller playerbase. Games like League suffer this too but to a lesser extent since a massive playerbase and more of the top players too.
Didn’t realize that’s what you meant by vent game. Then I think it’s fine. I thought you meant like Bubbacamp and hit on hook.
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You said a lot and most of it makes sense and I would hope that survivors care enough to read it.
I wanted to point out a typical game flow issue that relates to points 1-4(SWF,Tunneling)
Generally, SWF that coordinate will take a player and call him the person who is supposed to waste the killers time in a loop state on a map that has many chained pallets and tiles. And of course you know this to some degree, but the other people are on temporary gen fixing duty, sometimes in a triple on one or on split 3. Either can be good or bad depending on the map, perks, and all sorts of things that look like RNG, but really aren't so random. This player responsible for escorting the killer around, will eventually go down, its a win for the SWF if this takes more than whatever the time period required for their gen completion projection is and of course you know this time frame changes based on perks, items, annoying things the killer might do and split. But, the escort, once hooked leaves the killer with a choice, assuming the killer isn't ********, will you now area camp, or will you go pressure gens, or most likely some hybrid choice?
This was the escorts first hook and the chance that you would wind up in a chase with another player, is actually about half in my experience, but again, this doesn't seem to be what the SWF wants, as it breaks their flow. They want you back on the first escort, and this looks a lot like tunneling. Which it's not. Its basically doing as the SWF dictates you do. And if you don't do it, your escort will get bent and be many T-Bags. Assuming you break your gen patrol or whatever you got into and get back with your assigned escort, you will eventually hook it again. At this point, the SWF will pull a gen repair specialist and promote them to killer escort and you are expected to take your newly assigned escort's tour of pallets and windows. And when you do this, the SWF will be pleased, and you can be sure, that you are indeed ********.
Now, the win move if you let this situation evolve as the SWF dictated up to this point would be to tunnel for real by pursuing your first escort to his new job on a gen in the corner and getting him out. This is guaranteed to piss them off, because you really did tunnel, in their minds and went totally toxic, you also cause chaos in their chat at this point(as far as I can assume) and this is where you capitalize to win. Incidentally this is also where you won't be winning if they have comms discipline.
Now, if you read all that and play your game and still think that killers are the power role, or that a killer is taking it out on survivors by tunneling or that aggressive playstyles are mean, then I guess we'll never reach an understanding.
😀⛄️
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thanks for the compliment :^)
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What is this suppose to mean? Yun-Jin is on top.
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...Must...not...make...obvious...joke.
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What's the big deal about Yun-Jin being on TOP. She might even like to play roll it on top.
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