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The fact that they haven't adressed the current meta loadouts in the upcoming mid chapter worrys me
It feels like we are back to square one when it comes to the survivor meta. They still run almost the exact build as before with the exception that if you are "lucky" you get a SWF with a full gen loadout (with a toolbox and BNP on top). On the killer side it got even worse with the gen kicking meta literally being able to hold the survivors hostage until the game ends automatically (after 1 hour). If a killer holds a tight 3 gen with thosw perks it's basically gg. The upcoming mid-chapter was a great opportunity to adress it again and work on another overhaul. And while they announced some important changes, the meta perks won't get touched which is giving me a reason to be worried. People are increasingly tired with their games as every game seems to feel stale and obnoxious yet the devs haven't announced any changes yet. But I think it's time for another massive perk overhaul
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All the last overhaul did was dumpster a bunch of perks on both sides, and only truly buffed a handful of perks that ended up giving us this boring meta. So I'm weary about another perk overhaul. All I see are more popular perks being dumpstered and some small tweaks to bad perks that people still won't run.
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There will always be a META.
There always be a flavor of the week/month/year selections in any game. Especially a live service game.
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Not for this extended amount of time though. 2 Months and they are taking their sweet time, 6 months and they are just being just being lazy. A year or more and they are actively going out of their way to not change the meta. There is a reason league has been and continues to be the biggest game in the world and it's due to their two week patch cycle.
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League of Legends goes through years-long cycles of horrible balance too, though i.e. le epic tank meta, and IIRC they're confirmed to intentionally make characters overpowered to incentivize people to spend money.
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I think its best to address the solo q experience first before going for the meta. The hud update for solo q will definitely give them more info on what and how much to adjust on these perks. A dev even said they will go for perks in the near future after this update.
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The time between cycles isn't the big issue here, it's the fact that the last attempt to change the meta wound up with the Survivor meta almost back where it started.
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new meta, old meta, any meta... people will complain no matterwhat. Why would they be in rush to change things knowing this??
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Do you have any idea how long it took for them to take the distance off of Dead Hard? Or take down the 100% on Iron Will?
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I do. That's the issue.
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Probably because RE dlc is still selling, they gotta milk that cow while they can.
Supposedly, they'll do changes after this midchapter. However, it's entirely possible that the most complained about perks will actually survive.
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Survivor meta won't change significantly until there are core gameplay changes, not perk balance. The meta will always include perks to combat camping, tunneling, and slugging because killers can always choose to use these strategies at any time, regardless of their perks. Until camping and tunneling become so inefficient as to be basically non-existent, you'll always see these perks, no matter how many nerfs are thrown at them.
Killer gameplay though shifts entirely just with perk changes. Nerfing ruin and buffing a few kick perks was enough to get most killers to change their play style from pressure, always being in chase, and trying to end chases quickly (where 'gens aren't worth the time to kick'), to dropping chase to make sure no gen is ever left unkicked.
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So why is six months a big deal?
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The thing is, we wound up with basically the exact same Survivor perks. That's what I mean by the meta didn't move.
Literally the only thing that's stayed gone is Borrowed Time. Dead Hard is ubiquitous to the point of nausea once more.
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?
So because they have been really slow in the past, that means it's reasonable for them to take over 6 months every single time to do a real perk balance patch? Especially when half the perks are just going to receive number changes. Think about it like this: if you have two people dedicating all their time to coming up with changes and two people implementing them into a in house test build it literally cannot take 6 months to rework 10 perks and change 10 others at the very least. Mind you bhvr has expanded quite a bit.
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I'm just gonna say that I do see alot more variety among the survivors I get matched with. So I think it was successful to a degree. I think the survivors and killers who do use the meta builds do so because it's effective at helping them win, so they probably get matched up with each other quite often because the game sees them as an adequate challenge to each other.
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I'm still running into 3-4 DH's when I'm using nothing meta, plus a grab bag of the other culprits. I don't think I'm that good. <_>
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Exactly how often do you think we need the perk balance overhauled?
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2 months. I am not saying all meta has to be changed. I am saying things like Nurse and pretty much all of the old survivor meta should be nerfed decently just for the fact that it's been 6 years they have been at the top. But like I said I come from league(which is infinitely harder to balance than dbd) and nothing stays at the top for more than a year, but those are rarity's. But I don't think it's any different in this game. People tend to run meta at all ranks because they naturally want to win, but when it's the same for so long the game gets stale. I think people on both sides getting conditioned by perks due to how long they stay so impactful is wack.
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DS is also mostly gone, but yeah.
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If you mean behavior in game like "You need to wait out every attack because they MIGHT have Dead Hard even though it may not even exist in this game", then yes, that sort of thing needs to die.
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Killers: DH, DS, OTR/BKBT/UB
Survivors: Eruption, Pain res/dms (I guess that's all the meta killer perks that I can think of right now that change behavior)
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But that's kind of my point. There's essentially no competition in what the perks are for.
BT, Iron will, and DS basically got replaced by OTR. Even if you wanted to run a 'maximal' anti tunnel build, you can only stack OTR with DS, and DS is laughably bad with only a 2 second head start.
If you don't want to rely on grab bag teammates for healing, the options are self care, CoH, or medkit. Self care was also nerfed, and even pharmacy got a questionable change.
Unbreakable is still the most consistent way to get yourself off the ground. Exponential could be either to far away to be useful, or to close and get snuffed before you get up. No mither is just asking to be targeted.
Windows of opportunity has actually jumped up in usage to become more popular than before. But again, there's not really an information perk that is useful in chase to compete with it either.
The perk I assume people actually mean when they say 'meta hasn't changed' is dead hard. A perk that can be used on demand will always be preferable to any situational exhaustion perk. Good luck getting consistent balanced landing value on autohaven, for example.
Even if dead hard was deleted completely, people would just move to complaining about 99'd Sprint burst after a couple months instead.
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A lot of people, myself included, wouldn't have the same complaint about Sprint Burst. Because the issue with Dead Hard is how much it distorts how you have to play everything, and how it consistently requires players to either waste a swing or act in a way that is completely damaging to their own chase if the person doesn't have Dead Hard (and it's only not damaging for DH because the alternative is worse).
And SB doesn't have anywhere near the same "eat someone's power" potential.
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Its not about you're good or not. Lets say your skill is 6/10, but your MMR is 7-8. Not using meta or tunneling SHOULD make you lose and drop MMR.
Then even if your MMR is at 6 (correct place), you may either play against players who're worse than you (skill of 5/10) but carried by DH to reach to MMR 6/10. Or players who're better than you (skill of 7/10) but lose because they played against an equal skill opponent but use meta.
The whole point is you should track if you have 50-60% kill rate in all of those match, if it does, MMR works at intended.
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I dont know, the Survivor-Meta is more diverse. Sure, it is still a Meta and a Meta means that some Perks are more popular than others, but I see quite a mix in Loadouts. But overall, you will always have "second chance"-Perks, since those are good and honestly needed (if you make yourself easy to catch and hook, you will go down quickly and the game is an early 3v1 aka a win for the Killer).
Killer on the other hand did not change much. Meta is still as much Slowdown as possible, nobody tries to run builds which work with the power of the Killer, because it is always more beneficial to run the same 4 Perks on every Killer. Sure, the Perks changed, but the overall type of those is the same.
But I agree, it is worrying that they did not address Perks like Erupion and that we are most likely stuck with them for at least another 3 months.
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BHVR has always been slowed to address perks in the game. Dead Hard was untouched for years. Ruin got changed only to become meta again.
The only thing that really changed is BHVR stopped doing very minor adjustments to perks no one was using which was hardly meta changing.
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Okay, but the point I was addressing isn't "does MMR work or not", it's "if you're being matched against meta perks, you must be using meta yourself".
But I'm not doing that. And it's still the same, DH etc. etc. Especially DH.
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Too slow. These icons are nothing special, they should have been there long ago. But another chapter needs to get released to make money, I understand that. However, I dont know whats the issue of changing numbers on broken items like Commodious Toolbox, Ranger Med-Kits, Healing Speed and the same for addons (BNP, Wire Spool), same for various killers.
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It's all academic, since we haven't seen an extended sprint burst meta.
But when 99%, a well timed Sprint burst is no different from the old dead hard for distance. You can bait swings and run away, guarantee getting to that next pallet, etc. Pretty much anything you can do with 'distance on demand' is on the table.
The only thing SB can't do that old dead hard could is 'dead hard in place', but you can't do that anymore anyway.
Cracked survivors can already get value out of 99% Sprint burst, it's just that dead hard is easier to use, so more people run that.
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So the survivor META has mostly shifted as survivors are prioritizing Gen completion over chases. Because the time to complete gens was increased, the base power of Gen regression via kick was increased, and several Gen regression perks were buffed (tbh I think this meta is better than the ruin meta for killers b/c they can mess with Gen regression all match w/o worrying about a totem going down). And tunneling/camping are still strong (camping a survivor early game almost always guarantees a 3-4K depending on a few other factors, as survivors cannot finish 4 gens in the time it takes for a camped survivor to die) so survivors are going to run second chance perks to help themselves.
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It's easier to hit a button rather then running loops (Lithe and BL)
SB doesn't have a button (other then the running button) then once used the Killer might give up chasing that Survivor
Eruption doesn't have a cooldown after the kick... and 25 seconds of Incapacitated status effect (changing those 2 things should be at the top of the list... seems so many people have complained about it)
Call Of Brine... I still don't know why people are complaining about it other then synergy with Eruption
Overcharge still has the overbearing skillcheck (and more and more people are asking for that to become basekit)
Maybe they are thinking that the players will find a way to break the "meta" on our own
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I mean, there's a significant difference between a 99'd sprint burst and DH for distance (new or old style): if you do the former, you can't maximise the length of a chase through running at the first opportunity and you must use it at the beginning of a chase. That's not even getting into the risk of misusing it, and the downsides of moving around in a way so as to not trigger it early. It's not casually available to extend a loop, it can't be used to finish a gen or get an unhook, and the Killer doesn't have to spend the entire chase going "hm, does this person have DH or not" and hold back on a swing they know they can make. Someone 99ing is pretty obvious.
And, y'know, the part where it doesn't eat Killer powers. If you can't just outrun whatever it is, whoops, that still gets downed.
Sure, it gets value. But the value it gets isn't "I am an all-solving shield against basically anything". M1 Killers lose out, but M1 Killers always lose out, and at least they lose less by not having to commit to the entire chase first.
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