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Why did wiggle progress get nerfed?
Seriously? Break Out and body blocking are now useless with the change. I haven't read a single feedback post where people complained that too many survivors were wiggling off...
Answers
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The beta wiggle system buffed wiggle by 1 second. The change now simply returns the time back to what it used to be. It’s not nerfed compared to what used to be normal.
I have been seeing some people say that the struggle effect against the killer seemed less effective though (even with great skill checks); that may be a bug.
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Cause... it was a beta feature that they figured was too strong so they changed it to something else. Back to the 16 second wiggle compared to the like 14.98 if you hit every great skillcheck.
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Yeah idk why they decided to take away the extra wiggle progress. It certainly wasn't broken. And this is speaking from survivor and killer perspective.
As killer I often had enough leeway to reroute to a second hook if one got sabo'd without my cargo wiggling free. As survivor there's something uniquely frustrating about hitting every skill check and not seeing the bar go yellow. Reckon wiggle disruption should be just a little stronger if they want to nerf the speed. Atm feels like good wiggle checks achieve absolute nothing.
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I like it just because it makes the time you have more consistent. Something to work with.
And wiggling shouldn't be stronger. Seriously, what is with all these posts that count losing a one-second-if-perfect post as some big deal? You're not meant to get off if the Killer picks you up most of the time. It's literally the last thing that ever needs buffing.
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Not saying it needs buffing. I'm saying it didn't need a nerf and should be reverted.
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... it didn't need the buff it got in the first place? They took out an unnecessary tiny buff that mostly served to make judging times annoying.
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Agree to disagree I guess. As killer I had zero issue with the beta wiggle checks. A little uncertainty is a good thing in this game tbh. It was kind of cool to have slightly variable wiggle times rather than being able to time your watch by them.
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But there was no point to the "increased" progress because if you got every skill check perfect it only came up to a little over 1 sec of bonus. Even BHVR said that little progress was useless because no everyone could hit a perfect wiggle set for it.
Now there could be a possible bug with it that makes the wiggle not effect the Killer as much as it should. There is a known bug with the BP rewards for making the skill checks.
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Who though it was too strong?
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Even BHVR said that little progress was useless because no everyone could hit a perfect wiggle set for it.
Then looks like the fix would be to change that system by tweaking the numbers instead of removing it.
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The lack of extra wiggle progress is fine, the main issue is that killers don't seem to be being moved around much at all, despite the fact they're supposed to be being moved around -more- than before (if you hit your greats)
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The lack of extra wiggle progress is fine
Taking that away isn't fine, in my opinion, hence why I'm wondering why it was nerfed.
the main issue is that killers don't seem to be being moved around much at all,
That's a secondary issue, and almost a non-issue altogether. Killers swaying left and right has almost zero effect on any killer.
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It can cause issues on doorways but I only see that happen with boil over. On standard checks it's pretty easy to cancel out the shake with movement as it's pretty rhythmic.
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Bhvr. And since its their game... ultimately its whatever they want.
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Well yeah but they could listen to their customers/players. And I don't think anyone though it was too powerful it just made wiggling feel worth it and was just every way better than the new one. They should rather neef boil over if that's problematic that is actually painful for us console players to face.
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Why did it ever get buffed in the first place with the beta feature?
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Who thought it needed an additional second?
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BHVR though and let it be there full year no-one complained about it. That 1 sec gave survivors reason to try hit those great skill checks.
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1 year turnaround is relatively quick for BHVR when it comes to addressing issues, or unanticipated buffs/nerfs.
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Honestly I keep hearing "its horrible to face as console" but yet have I seen people look from side to side having the wiggle carry you rather than you're actual movement direction. It worked with hackers that stacked like 10 boil overs so I don't see why console cant do the same but maybe 20% of boil over.
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fully agree
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The wiggle system in general is such a waste of a mechanic.
There's hooks everywhere, so there's never enough distance to wiggle away. Generally I have enough time to carry survivors from corner to center of the map before they free themselves.
Hooks are literally everywhere, and scourge hooks aren't really spread out enough for the wiggle system to have any effect.
The times I've tried Boil Over it has done mostly nothing for me, with the only rare exceptions being a killer greeding a scourge hook after dropping off from a short height or some very specific places with no hooks nearby. Heck, I've gotten more value out of Flip-Flop the few instances I've gotten sluggled than any situation with Boil Over.
If it wasn't because it gives a small, almost laughable amount of points and the fact that prevents the incredibly odd backpacking killer from just running around with you on their shoulder, I really wouldn't try to wiggle at all. The system in its current state is so meaningless I think they should just get rid of it and automate the entire process.
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You seem to think that wiggling off should be the norm/if the killer doesn't go to the closest hook you're guaranteed to escape. How would such a system work when another survivor body-blocks? Or two/three?
If the idea is "if one or more survivors gets in your way you lose a hook" I don't think such a system would even remotely last as swf can easily do this and so can solo with new hud updates.
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There's a difference between useless and "too beneficial".
Low/medium rank killers were losing a lot of hooks to the wiggle change (including most of BHVR's staff).
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The point of the wiggle system is that the killer can't walk around with you forever soft locking your game.
Second point is that you won't get hooked in the basement every single time.
It does what it needs to do, you should not be able to wiggle off unless multiple survivors help you or sabos is used
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The devs nerf everything to give killers a better advantage
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nerfing boil over? Again?...
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My point is that wiggling does so little that there's no point for it to be a skill check mechanic. The only situations wiggling does do anything at all, especially with the current system, is if the killer is backpacking you or, funnily enough, to not use it in hopes you get hatch.
Skill checks on gens prevent explosions, which in turn prevents the killer from getting vital information. Same with healing skill checks. Plus, getting a Great Skill Check slightly accelerates the process. Perks and add-ons interact with these skill checks by making them bigger, smaller, more or less frequent...
Skill checks on second hook prevents you from prematurely dying.
Wiggling really doesn't do anything but slightly pushing the killer to the right or the left. In 10000 matches you can hit all your skill checks perfectly and at most you can get one killer stuck on a door maybe once and perhaps that can grant you an escape. There's a slight chance that one killer in those 10000 matches may greed or backpack you and the wiggle system may come in handy.
Out of the perks that affect wiggling, none affect the skill check size (that I know of, at least). All seem to affect the time wiggling or the push the killer feels.
So, if wiggle skill checks are going to have such a little effect, then automate the process. Make Boil Over automatically apply more progress when the killer drops from a certain height and also the bigger push. Make Break Out speed up the process. Just don't make the process manual because it feels like the game is giving you hope that what you're doing is meaningful but in reality it's just a timed process.
You're not going to hit a couple of Great skill checks in a row and suddenly push the killer so hard that will make them turn and stop them for half a second. The effects of wiggling rely almost entirely on the killer's and your team mates' choices. None of the skill checks you hit do anything meaningful enough to have it be a skill check minigame instead of an automated process with a "Press Space to stop struggling" option.
As it is, it would be the same as if second hook skill checks just gave you points and missed skill checks didn't accelerate the process. At that point, might as well just not have the entire mechanic and just passively get points anyway, because what you do isn't really doing anything regardless.
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'Wiggling' was never intended to give Survivors a solid chance to get out of a hook. It was meant to set some sort of time limit on Killers, so that they cannot simply chase the other Survivors indefinitely with you slung over their shoulder, or carry you to the basement from a remote corner of the map.
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From the sound of your rambling and the date of you account here being created I guess you haven't played DBD before 2022 and with the old spamming wiggle system.
If yes, you should be GRATEFUL for the change to a skillcheck based system.
It IS already a semi automated progress.
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Wiggle progress is the same as it was before. A beta feature is just that, a test. The normal wiggle system was still the default setting.
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Isnt the stagger mechanic a little buggy atm hence why no one is noticing much sway with a struggling Survivor?
But yea I agree with what you are saying lol
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I don’t think it was really nerfed but there is some weird glitch going on right now that prevents killers from swaying with wiggle. Unless a survivor has Boil Over equipped killers won’t feel much resistance when they carry survivors.
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Can I at least get my wiggle points back? You're not encouraging me to struggle against all odds if you arent paying me to do so.
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It never needed the buff
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Ah yes, killer nerfs give killers the advantage
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For the most part, you're right. I have the game since some time after its release, but I didn't manage to play more than a handful of games as a survivor and as a killer before ultimately having to uninstall it due to my PC being terrible and barely giving me 20 FPS. I know how the old system was, but aside being extremely awkward (and loud depending on your keyboard) to use, I didn't get enough games to find any other issues with it. I only came back aroundddd-uh... May 2022?
But that's neither here nor there. I'm just saying, the skill check minigame makes you think you're doing more than what you're actually doing. It feels fairly pointless, to the point that I feel they should just make the progress bar fill passively. It's not like hitting the skill checks is either engaging nor rewarding enough to justify not having it be an automatically filling progress bar.
Have you seen that article talking about how sprinting with the horse in Dragon Age Inquisition didn't really speed you up but it just moved the camera and added some speed lines to make you think you were going faster? That's kinda my issue with the wiggle system. If my input is pretty much meaningless, just automate the whole thing.
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Well i would say every skill check system is just a form of make the player do SOMETHING to avoid a negative outcome.
Generator skillchecks for example seem more like a measure to keep player from switching mentally off and keeping them on their toes otherwise the explosion gives them away. Even great skillchecks aren't that amazing in their effect.
Hook skillchecks keep them from dieing early and wriggle skillchecks keep them from getting carried to a scourge hook/the basement every time.
For me they all are there so the survivor can "feel" as if the actively avoid the negative outcome.
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Not true at all. I’ve had tons of matches as both killer and survivor where the wiggle mechanic came into to play pretty significantly. Teammates working together to body block, killer taking a risk trying to get to a scourge hook or basement, sabo squads, hook dead zones after someone gets sacrificed. Wiggle mechanic is a big element of the game in my experience
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None of those would disappear if the process was automated. You hitting a Great Skill Check, at least in the current iteration of the wiggle system, would not make those easier or harder.
With the previous iteration at least there was an excuse that you could potentially break free 1 second faster, but as it is right now I don't see a point for it to not be automatic. Nothing interacts with the wiggle skill checks, and you hitting Greats isn't increasing your chances of survival. Wiggling is just a glorified countdown.
To make it easier to understand: If you used a hack to automatically hit Great Skill Checks on gens and heals, people would get angry at you, but if you used one to automatically hit wiggling skill checks, no one would bat an eye.
If the skill checks are so meaningless, then might as well let the wiggling happen automatically and not have this game's equivalent of the Mass Effect's "meaningful choices" that end on the same dialogue tree.
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Agreed, it was suppose to be a small chance to escape.
The big issue I have is that they reworked the system to introduce skill checks. It'd be better to just have the bar fill up automatically like others have said. Zero reason for them to have reworked this whole system and introduce a bar with skill checks if the only reward is a laughably small amount of bloodpoints.
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It was reverted, back to what it was before it was ever changed.
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It's a shame, there's no point in adding QTEs to wiggling if it doesn't actually DO anything. The wiggle barely affects the killer's movement at all. It was nice to just squeeze a tiny bit more progress out for hitting checks.
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I think it's confirmed bug ATM that wiggle isn't affecting Killers like it's supposed to so give them time and it should be hopefully fixed soon
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