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Approaching eruption nerf
Eruption will be nerfed while DH which is 50% more popular will not get any changes...
ok, at least i hope you revive some kind of perk like dying light or thanatophobia, ruin mb
it will be funny if the killers get nothing in return
Comments
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DH was already massively nerfed
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Eruption needs to be nerfed, the current state is unhealthy for the game.
As a killer main, l think DH is fine perk now but I know other people can have problems with this perk so i'll let the community decide the future of DH.
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The two are unrelated.
Here's the thing about Eruption...and why I can tell already that I'm going to be annoyed here.
Eruption is a meh perk against SWFs and a nightmare scenario for solos.
What should happen: the perk reworked into something that's universally good against both, but not as oppressive for solos.
What will happen: take a look at Thana. Or Ruin. Or Overcharge. Or Pop.
Killers won't get anything in return, because that's...never how it works.
It doesn't though.
It needs to be reworked.
Dead Hard is...probably a bit strong too, but with how long it was left at a 70-80% pick rate, I doubt it's ever going to be adjusted at a 30% pick rate.
It really wasn't though. In some situations, DH is even stronger than it was before. The DH 'nerf' was a bit of a paper tiger, all told.
EDIT:
Right.
Just...keep in mind that killer mains are still a bit raw after Dead Hard was insanely overpowered for literal years, and got the gentlest of love-taps, but Overcharge didn't even make it off the PTB, Thana was nerfed to worse than it was pre 6.1.0 and Ruin was reduced to hot garbage.
While it may or may not be the actual case, it very much does look like survivor perks and killer perks are treated very differently when it comes to nerfing and re-balancing. And that makes people defensive.
Post edited by StarLost on25 -
at least there's some mindgame involved now,,except the pallet part which i totally understand,,but i think it's nowhere near as strong as it was before,,maybe on very telegraphed hits like a nurse blink it's stronger than before,,,but even then killer can just not swing ,,
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As much as I defend the eruption, I'm not a big fan of it, and if the eruption were removed right now, I wouldn't be hurt too much (don't you dare touch jolt)
but the fact that we take away strong toys from only 1 side makes me very sad
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Here's the issue. Let's say I'm playing on Demo, or any other killer with highly telegraphed hits.
Before - someone DH's, my shred whiffs but I catch them in 5 seconds and they go down. Maybe they make it to safety.
Where DH was obnoxious was when someone used it to bypass a trap completely, or for distance.
Now - I shred, eat a DH and now it takes about 10 seconds to catch up and they will make it to safety.
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yeah i totally get it and i agree for ONLY these cases it's stronger ,,but otherwise i feel it's decently toned down , Old DH felt like you were gettin robbed,,this just feels meh but whatever ,at least for me
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The problem is that new DH tends to make weaker killers feel way worse and doesn't do much against stronger killers that can regain that distance instantly.
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Also agree..but i don't see how DH gets adjusted again without becoming bad,,What i would like to see is targeted buffs to lower tier killers for sure ,,As much as i hate eruption carrying bad killer players as well it made lower tier killers viable as well
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Yep, thats why its still the most used survivor perk.
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Why is erruption unhealthy?
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Usage rate doesn't warranty a nerf in my book,,,Windows is also used a lot,,should it be nerfed ?
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I disagree dh was much better before nerf it was easy to use press E for distance. Now it requires killer to make mistake and survivor has to use it perfectly. Skill level overall has probably just increased now which can make it seem stronger.
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You cant be serious right now.
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Perk can't be "fine" if I HAVE TO play from it in every chase with every survivor, even if it is not in the match at all.
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Didn't they say a small perk rebalancing is coming and used eruption as an example? So why are you assuming they're just going to touch eruption and nothing else?
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No, usage rate doesn´t warrant a nerf. But then again, if it would be a bad perk. People wouldn´t use it so often. Do i believe that DH needs a nerf? Nope, i think its in a good spot. BUT nerfing Erruption while keeping DH as it is, looks weird to me.
Let me explain. Erruption prevents some survivors to be unable to do anything for 25 seconds. DH prolongs chases for easily the same amount of time (if not more). Why is one considered bad and the other good?
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I´m dead serious. Why is Erruption unhealthy?
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The problem is deadhard creates a gameplay loop that isn't intuitive and kinda goes against the idea of the game. Like think of it this way. Every time a killer is near an injured survivor now, they can't just swing at them to down them, they have to wait, and in creates this weird moment where the survivor turns around and goes toward the killer to create this "mindgame" and it is really silly.
Similar to eruption, where survivors see an injured survivor in a chase and they have to guess when they are about to go down and get off the gen, or they gen tap, and it creates this weird gameplay interaction that shouldn't happen.
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Because not letting people play the video game for thirty seconds feels bad.
I don't care about all the blah blah unfair for solos! tripe. I care about literally not being able to do stuff for half a minute. Even blocking the gen would be better and still strong, cuz at least you can find another gen or heal while it's blocked.
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Before if you swung at a DH the survivor didn't get a speed boost, you just missed. I'm pretty sure something taking skill doesn't justify it being overpowered, that is not how balance works. I think a killer sitting behind a survivor and being on their back, not swinging and it becomes a game of chicken is the absolute perfect example of just how dumb of a perk it is. Everyone still uses it.
The question about Eruption is would it be better if they nerfed the incapacitated and nerf the notification/regression, or do they or do they keep the notification/incapacitation, to keep the survivor off the gen, resulting in the killer having to apply pressure but also buying time for the gen? I'd say the second is probably better
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If you start running to a different gen, the 25 second timer will be over before you reach it.
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Historically that is what has happened. Look at Thanataphobia. Look at Pop. The biggest reason killers are doing this "eruption" gen kick meta, is there really isn't any good gen defense perks anymore. Let's look at all the perks that would be classified as "gen defense"
- Call of brine
- Eruption
- Overcharge
- Corrupt Intervention
- Deadlock
- Hex: Pentimento
- Jolt
- Merciless Storm
- Gift of Pain
- Thanatophobia
- Dead man's switch
- Pain Resonance
- Grim Embrace
- Pop goes the Weasel
- Ruin
- Oppression
Now which ones are just bad?
- Overcharge (any decent player can hit the skill check)
- Hex: Pentimento (requires way to much setup, you are gonna lose 3 gens before anything happens, and boons are a hard counter to it)
- Jolt (requires a basic attack, most killers use their power for attacking in some way)
- Merciless storm (a complete joke)
- Gift of Pain (requires you to intentionally hook 4 different people, and then not actually injure them, really hard to get value)
- Thanatophobia (was completely gutted because 2 killers were good with it, and only 1 was really oppressive, probably just needs fixing on those 2 specific killers)
- Dead man's switch (only usable by a select few killers, by the time you can pressure the gen you probably lost half the duration of it already)
- Grim Embrace (by the time you 4 hook, you probably lost the game already, very little value)
- Pop goes the Weasel (completely gutted, has a timer, and only 20% of current progress making it very hard to get value out of it)
- Ruin (completely gutted, base regression is extremely slow and most people just ignore it now, not Hex worth anymore)
- Oppression (why is the cooldown on this trash perk so long? Why does it even have a cooldown at all?)
So what does that leave you with?
- Call of brine
- Eruption
- Corrupt Intervention
- Deadlock
- Pain Resonance
Corrupt is just "ok"
Pain resonance only works if you can get a quick down and start chaining downs together to slow the game down, very high risk.
Deadlock is a better version of corrupt.
Call of brine is pretty good for the information and the extra regression.
The only good perk right now is eruption because it's basically always your "goto", which pairs nicely with call of brine. This is similar to the old old ruin (with the skillchecks) where it just always worked, so that's why everyone took it, same with PGTW ,for people who preferred to kick gens instead of use a hex perk.
And if killers don't take some kind of gen defense, they basically have to tunnel and/or proxy camp to win, which is really unfun for everyone. What needs to happen is a complete overhaul of all gen defense perks to be extremely powerful, but only allow you to take 1 of them so they can't stack, and put them in a special 5th perk slot that only accepts one of these gen defense perks. Then balance the game around those gen defense perks extending generators by "x" amount of minutes on average throughout the game, just in different ways that benefit different playstyles/killers.
OR
A lot of these problems with gen defense would be fixed if they just gave us the early game warmup they promised years ago, because that is the biggest problem. As a killer, you have to slow down those first gens, or speed up that first chase so you actually have time to play the game.
This perk problem is the same as survivors, both sides have maybe a dozen perks that are any good because they keep nerfing them, and so many of them are so situational.
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Eruption seems pretty fine to me.
But, technically, every single perk and power is closer being nerfed ... sooner or later.
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80% of the time it just makes me giggle on blight. Watching them dh in slam duration or rushing past and doing a 180 just to see them dab almost always gives me a laugh.
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Moving to another gen.
Doing a totem.
Helping a friend.
...
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You can't do any survivor interactions with others (other than unhooking) or totems when incapacitated, btw
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Indeed, Dead Hard’s usage rate has slowly increased since its nerf and is still the most used survivor perk in the game. I honestly think the perk will get back to its old usage rate if left alone, as more and more players realize it’s still insanely broken, which has already seemed to have been happening.
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I will clarify here, we've not said what we will look into fully, just given a hint at ONE thing...please do not make this a "this is getting nerfed so this should as well" discussion, when you do not yet have all the information. Yes we are currently looking at Eruption, pretty sure our Design Team is looking at other perks also.
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Massively? I'd love to hear your take on ruin/thanat/and pop then
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i only feel bad about ruin, being a hex is always risk enough and should have been left alone
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if so, could you remove the 30% penalty from calm spirit, it feels unnecesary
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Finally.
Eruption nerf can't come soon enough.
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Vast majority of players cannot hit Overcharge skill checks consistently.
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Incapacitated means you cannot do anything except for unhooking Survivors.
No totems, no healing, no doing other gens.
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And it is not enough. It is still far more powerful than is reasonable.
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Dead hard is not getting nerfed. Not with the eruption nerf, anyway. There's hardly any need to be an enlightened centrist about it. We've all seen how this works.
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So it went from guaranteed 3rd health state to guaranteed 3rd health state against m2s.... so massive
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I don't see the issue with either dead hard or eruption.
I see an issue with potential generator completion time, and I see how all the concepts are related.
I think its stupid to waste time adjusting either perk when you really need to get at the underlying ability of survivors to complete generators too quickly and how un-fun the functional counters to that are.
Because, some new mess will just arise and leave the game in the same place.
But, the new changes like the survivor icons seem positive for both sides, so maybe they will adjust Eruption to do something equally useful across a wider variety of situations, as opposed to just breaking a sometimes useful tool to slow down the above mentioned issue.
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I beg to differ
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If perks were sorted into catagories so that they couldn't be stacked alot of this would be null and void, rather than just a endless rotation of nerf/buffs.
You can have old dead hard, but you can't have borrowed time. i.e one "survival" perk.
You can have old ruin but not eruption, things like that.
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You can always try faking you power to bait it out, obviously some killers can do it much better than others like blight that can spare a charge unlike a demo for example, killer has some chance to outplay you now unlike old dh,,
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DH and Eruption are the two perks right now that have such a strong meta, that they singlehandedly decide how games are played and they have the greater game in their stranglehold. DH did so for quite some time now and after some grace period right after 6.1 were killers could just be killers and swing when they cornered a survivor or caught them in the open. Now, with a lot of survivor adapting and learned how to use the new DH, it's once again so possible that you have to second guess every single swing until you know that a survivor is running something else or needs to mend.
It's true that the new DH is much fairer then the old one and that you can now effectively bait it out most of the time, but it's still wasting time every single chase. And there are still lots of lose/lose situations for the killer, that just feel awful. By now I can predict pretty well when a survivor will DH in front of a palette, but the window to hit them afterwards is soooo fricking small that it's actually more to your detriment to try to go for it then to just eating the DH and applying mending. FR, I have pulled this off successfully a scant 3 times by now, but have many times predicted the DH correctly and still gotten hit by the palette ... this time without deep wounding the survivor and them just using a palette. This is really awful and quite comparable to the way survivors feel about the uncounterable status of an Eruption primed gen. Do they waste time off that gen and be waiting for a down that might never come or stay at the gen and risk looking at it for 25s? Fun for everyone.
I have a few ideas of how to nerf DH even further, without it being too strong. For one, we could not make it an exhaustion perk, but give it tokens. DH could have a much more generous activation period of 1s or even 1.5s, but once used up its token is gone, a bit like Unbreakable. It gives you this one or two strong plays per game, but you have to make then count and can't use it in every chase or to greed EVERY. SINGLE. WEAK. PALETTE. TO. ITS. ABSOLUTE. MAX. .... sorry, I needed to get that "skill issue of mine" out of the system. I would argue for two tokens, one would be too weak, 3 still oppressive enough that you could use it very much like now. 2 seems to be the sweet spot.
With Eruption, I am mostly not using it, because I feel the survivors plight, playing survivor myself a good 50% of the time. That's the reason, btw, why I refuse to use DH and only sparingly use Boons, I don't play stuff that I hate playing against myself. Eruption singlehandedly is keeping killrates up, though, and saving some killers from slinking completely below mediocrity. Suevivors who know what they are doing a very much back in the power role in this game and dictate that flow of the game. Eruption helps many killer players in this regard to somewhat turn the tables, but just as with DH, old or new, it's never a good thing to crutch on one single perk.
BTW of crutches: I play a lot of Nowhere to Hide these days and rely a lot on its info and am loving it ^_- But I can still read birds or scratch marks or certain other clues and can play the game without.
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It would have been a good idea to place them all in excluding categories at the start, but if done now they'd have to rewrite every perk.
Come to think of it, I'm not sure how they failed to do that at design.
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Nerf that perk to the ground
No, there needs to be no 'compensation' if they remove the incapacitated effect
Tired of trash killers getting carried by stacked slowdowns and by stalling the game
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It wasnt. New DH is stronger than old DH, they just made it take slightly more skill to use.
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I like the premise of it but if it no longer is an exhaustion perk it opens up builds combining it with another exhaustion perk,, as you mentioned survivors did adapt and so did most of the killers to dh which feels fair for the most part,, I'm curious what they do with eruption,, my guess is it gets the tinkerer treatment, once per Gen, with slight buffs to the regress part and slight nerf to incapacitated
Post edited by Entitled_survivor on0 -
Which also means you might not pull it off,, there sre cases where it's stronger and there are cases where it's not even close
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Well they've already been and done a "wide sweep" of changes, Generally most perks in isolation are fine, its stacking of "slowdown" "survival" etc that causes issues.
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Why not confirm that DH is getting looked into? Seems like an easy way to prevent stoking flames in Killer V survivor forums to announce both sides are getting what they want...
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