Approaching eruption nerf
Comments
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Nerfed yes
massively? no
7 -
The vast majority of players don't even HAVE overcharge. But we are talking about balance, not how common things are. If we balanced things based on how common or rare they are then would this offering be fair?
- killer Offering
- 0.1% chance to appear in bloodweb
Does the following:
- All survivors are permanently exposed
- The aura of all survivors is permanently revealed
- Unlocks the ability to mori all survivors
- The movement speed of the killer is increased by 100%
Would this offering be balanced and fair? It would only have a chance to appear in 1 out of every 1000 games you played. So because it is super rare, it would be fine right?
7 -
Good point, both of you.
Not that it changes my general opinion of the perk. I've not found it to be particularly annoying so far. Maybe in the future ...
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Not really. It's trivially easy to pull off. Just tap the button on reaction, or use it as you approach a pallet to force a lose-lose situation on the Killer where if they swing, you zoom across the map with the dead hard boost, and if they dont swing you get to drop the pallet.
It's not hard.
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Well since you said "just tap on reaction" ima answer back with " just don't get DHed as killer"
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Okay, so we SHOULD nerf Overcharge because most people can't hit it?
I wasn't commenting on anything except you implying that Overcharge isn't good. It's good for most players and even experienced ones can get cucked by bad rng
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What are you even talking about. Killer starts their swing, you press button. It's as simple as that. It's easily the most overpowered perk in the game. It's description might as well just be "you have an additional health state".
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I'm arguing the inverse. I'm saying overcharge is bad and needs a buff. Just because bad players get hurt by it doesn't mean the perk is good. If the perk has a problem of, it's only good against bad players, and its bad against good players, then it needs to be tweaked such that it is balanced the same for both. Or at the very least not completely OP against bad players. I'd argue that perk needs a rework for example.
If something completely destroys bad players, but doesn't hurt good players, it needs a rework. For example, the old old ruin, with the skillchecks. That one, was basically really really powerful against bad players. But against really good players, that could hit great skill checks in their sleep, it didn't really hurt them that much. Thus, it needed a rework.
Overcharge probably isn't as powerful against low level players as old ruin was (to the point of basically being a guaranteed loss) so i'd argue it probably is underpowered currently.
I also think with the recent changes for solo queue, "bad players" are going to start getting better.
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Just don't get DHed :)
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Yea, maybe because the alternatives are all mostly crap.
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Ah okay, so you have zero argument, got it.
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Again, make other exhaustion perks more useful, I'd rather bring other exhaustion perks but most of then have too many caveats to be useful when you actually need them.
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yes you are very smart good for you :)
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I'm honestly hoping for a complete rework when it comes to Eruption. Nerfing it will either not do much so that it's still disgusting to go against (mainly because it has great synergy with other meta perks) or it will be completely useless. None of these are desirable outcomes.
Oh and also
NERF DH, PLS!
5 -
The other exhaustion perks are plenty useful and dont need any kind of buffs. In fact, most of them need nerfs. Dead Hard is just the absolute top of them. The only two that are somewhat reasonably close to balanced are Smash Hit and Overcome.
DH has already had it's issues discussed to death in the rest of this thread, so I wont go over it again.
SB, Lithe, and BL all are very strong speed boosts that allow you to easily waste an additional half a generator or more worth of the Killer's time pretty much every single time you get into chase.
Head-On is a bit more niche in solo play, but still okay. In SWF on the other hand it's crazy good because you can communicate to set up "ambushes" to completely ruin the Killer's chances of catching somebody.
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i'm not sure what you mean by "50% more popular." 50% as compared to what time? before the meta shake-up patch, DH was being run at 75% frequency in high level games, now it's more like 40%. that seems closer to 50% less popular, rather than 50% more. was there some other time frame you were talking about?
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... and is still by far the strongest perk in the game on survivor-side.
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The notion that it's meh against SWF is overstated. If it was easy to avoid, you wouldn't see Eruption run by every killer in comp against teams who are scrimming with each other on comms every day. The best teams in the world get hit by Eruption. Obviously less consistently, but it still happens. I don't think many people on here have actually tried comm'ing Eruption in practice. It's not as straightforward as it's made out to be in theory.
9 -
With the person next to me or myself running the killer around and the killer using Eruption it has a 0% success rate at this point. I see it in maybe 25% of our games.
Using a headset and over distance, I can see an increase in failure.
From the other side, it does work sometimes against SWF, mostly after its been well exposed and I think they are getting annoyed/tired of trying to dodge it.
I have no idea what comp players do. This seems like a bad game to play competitively, its a lot RPS going on here.
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Just some ideas to get a conversation starting:
Lithe: press E. This uses up the perks charge, gives you the effect on the next fast vault you do within 10s and starts the exhaustion timer once you vaulted.
Sprint Burst: press E while walking in order to conserve power for 45s. In this time frame SB won't activate, if you want to or not.
Balanced Landing: as is. You also have 3 tokens that recharge while inside the killers TR. When exhausted you use up 1 token when you jump down a great hight to reduce the stun by 35%.
Smash Hit: on top of the effects also blind the killer and play the hook of The Tricksters greatest hit. Alternatively, if you have Any Means Necessary the palette bounces back to standing the first time you successfully smack the killer during the trial.
Head On: hide scratch marks and foot steps for 3s on a successful hit.
Overcome: tbh this is good for what it is. Bonus: even when running away in a straight line the character model constantly t-bags the killer .
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You just revealed yourself that you dont play survivors enough to understand how Eruption works.
I cant even drop my medkit for teammate to heal themselves while theyre standing there for half a minute wondering why I dont heal them.
Move to another Gen? Those Gens are probably get kicked too, why should I run to another Erupted Gen, start over then get Incapacitated again; when I can wait for half a minute to continue my Gen knowing my Gen no more Erupted.
People who defence Eruption, giving “counters” advice that make zero sense
11 -
Eruption is easily in the top 5 of perks that have been most unhealthy in this game's lifespan.
The posters in this thread saying they think Eruption is fine (the same posters who have been defending Eruption all this time) really need to rethink how they view game balance.
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It's meh against SWF. It's not useless against SWF.
Overcharged is close to useless against SWF.
Thana is useless against SWF.
Surge is...yeah, if I was on an instadown killer I'd run that over Erupt too.
The issue is that there are sort of two regression paths viable against a good SWF. Kicky and PR. Kicky is CoB and...I guess something else? So what do we have? Uh...well, Overcharge takes 12 seconds to equal standard regression, and Eruption is a 10% burst.
Sometimes 'less bad' =/= good.
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Eruption has two major issues in my opinion:
(a) It removes a player's ability to play for a significant amount of time. That is not healthy game design
(b) It disproportionately affects one group more than the other (solos vs swf). That makes it frustrating for the group that's affected worse and makes it harder to determine if balancing is required.
Reworking it into a blocked gen effect instead of giving the incapacitated status would still leave the perk strong, not have players standing around for extended periods of time, and smooth out how it affects people allowing for better data. That sounds good to me.
In regards to the what about DH argument , well, first it is possible for there to be more than one unconnected issue in the game and, two, I don't think DH is broken. Honestly, I think it's okay albeit it can feel frustrating to face.
If a Killer approaches a survivor with SB, BL, and Lithe the extra distance can prevent a hit. That's less frustrating for the Killer because the Killer wasn't close and now has to spend extra time finding another survivor. The survivor with DH just switches when that happens to mid-chase. That feels more frustrating because the Killer feels like they won the chase and got robbed but they hadn't won the chase yet.
The real test as to whether or not DH is still out of balance is if DH users escape significantly more than SB users. They might, they might not, but right now the only people who know aren't telling.
The real difference between the two is that although we don't know if DH is that much better than it's closest equivalent, SB, it seems pretty apparent Eruption is much better against solos than swf and is much more effective than the other gen defense perks. That calls for a rework to make it healthier.
Post edited by TheSubstitute on3 -
Dead Hard is far, far stronger and less heathy for the game than Eruption. Nuke them both imo.
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TBH, I think that I would rather have DH on top of Lithe or SB, but it only activatable once or twice per game, then to have it potentially up every single chase, its having THAT big of on influence on the general tone of the game.
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And yet it is appearing in the majority of games now.
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If Eruption and DH both get nerfed, I'll call it a pretty good patch. Eruption is a perk that literally stops your opponent from doing anything for half a minute, and DH makes you second-guess every damn swing you do. Is it worth it to use my power? Will I regret it if I go for a lunge? How much distance will I lose this time?
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I hope they nerfed eruption so we can see some new complaints.
1 -
Do you think it is healthy to do a meta shake up and take the undisputed best perk in the game and buff it vs certain killers?
I would even go as far and say that current DH is objectively bad game design. If we take a bubba how do you play vs DH? Well if you m1 then you can't use your m2 since the survivor will DH it. Ok, but that's one character right? Well you have Billy that can hit his curve and that be completely removed by the e key. Demo is another killer that has always struggled vs DH and the effect of the perk is objectively better now. How about trickster where you now remove all knives if you hit the DH instead of just dodging 1 knife.
What about e for distance? Well they made it harder and buffed it. If you have the correct spacing then you can e under pallet and not only get what old DH was but you now get to save the pallet. How about pallet play? Well new DH is now better since you can leave the tile if you DH a lunge.
The perk doesn't just need a nerf but the concept of the perk needs to be removed from the game. If they don't do that then they need to take it out back like some of the killer perks. Lets actually see a meta shake up for survivor exhaustion.
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I think CoH is spelled a bit differently XD.
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Say I'm a whining killer main without saying I'm a whining killer main
2 -
A shake up for survivor exhaustion when killers get access to bloodlust even easier while having access to stbfl with 10 stacks technically. Killers have chase benefits and a lot of the strong killers are anti loop with these benefits. Lets leave exhaustion alone and get rid of DH. Tha should be fair
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It's basically 9 stacks of save now since it's 40% of 2.7 vs 3.0. If I recall correctly it was .15 per stack and is now .135. New save I think was .18 faster compared to before which is slightly faster than 9 stacks.
I was taking about the meta shake up for exhaustion in terms of getting DH out of the meta. It's still the top dog for survivor exhaustion when there are other choices. The meta shake up was a failure in the regard since you still see DH the most used perk in the entire game. The sad thing is DH stays but healthy perks like DS and POP are nowhere to be seen.
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Some perks straddle the line between multiple categories and some are hard to categorise in the first place. Not to mention everyone has a different idea as to what category certain perks would go into in the first place.
OTR is a 'second chance' perk AND a stealth perk for example.
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Reduce the range a bit and i think it'll be fine
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I think Eruption is a more egregious perk than Dead Hard, if we're making that comparison. Eruption's only counterplay is being in a full team on comms and being extremely accurate with callouts (which comp teams even mess up). Dead Hard has (limited) counterplay with most killers. There are some killers like Huntress where it just feels awful and that's true but its not as universally problematic compared to Eruption. You can even hit people Dead Harding at pallets if you time it perfectly. Its very difficult, but at least there SOMETHING you can do to avoid it unlike Eruption, unless you just don't do generators.
5 -
Eruption doesn't even show up on this data dump.
Dead hard is first for survivor perks.
At this point I have no idea what you people are on about. Eruption is a thing that does stuff and is countered by looking and not doing that thing at that moment.
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cuz it's still good of course no one denies that,,what i don't understand is how people still cry about it
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Agree. I was watching a content creator the other night, usually a killer main but was playing survivor with DH. He says he thinks DH is stronger now than before its nerf, but then proceeded to have three games in a row where he got zero value out of it. All 3 killers easily waited it out. Watching his old vods on YT and seeing him get DH value every. Single. Time, I feel like some people have bad memories.
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Eruption can definitely be changed in a healthy way without nuking it like Ruin. I don't see how anybody that has played Solo Q in the past 4 months can tell me that the perk is perfectly fine as is and that they can consistently rely only on their instinct and awareness to counter it when you always have question marks for teammates regardless of your MMR. Doing it is one thing, but doing it every single proc every single match though? Highly doubt it. I understand why people use it and I've used it myself, but it 100% should get this change
2 -
I don't use eruption since i know it can be quite the annoying perk, but heres one thing i don't understand. Behaviour seems to be keen to nerf / destroy killer perks pretty fast they come into the game, but they leave broken survivor perks for years in the game.
I get that eruption can be annoying in soloQ, but there are some survivor perks out there still causing quite the havoc for killer side as well. Not naming any i'm sure most of you know them.
I do hope this new perk update will be healthy for both sides and not lets nerf all the killer gen perks, and lets just update the survivor perks to be still good but different.
what i'm hoping is that they look into prove thyself. That perk needs a heavy nerf.
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Because it is still a third health state. That did not go away because they took the dash away. It was a third health state before, and it is a third health state now.
6 -
I wish DH would stun the killer for 6 seconds on command.
Injured -> Killer comes close -> STUN <3
1 -
This whole thread is a mess.
But, I do counter it, in soloQ. Not every time, that would be a bad thing. That would be like hitting the other player's scissors with my rock.
And I don't often play that game.
I get that Eruption makes butts hurt, and if you look at the generator completion per match from the video I posted, it even makes sense that the perk would make lots of rage.
That doesn't make it a bad perk, or negate its legitimate uses. Or even make it unfair. It just means it pisses people off.
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All they need to do is revert the incapacitated on Eruption from 25 seconds down to 15 seconds. Being unable to do anything for half a minute is pretty silly and undeeded, everything else about the perk is perfectly fine so there really should be not need to completely destroy it like with ruin.
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The incapacitated is basically a 25-second stun because you have nothing to do during that time, dodging that stun is a random guess or requires you not to touch the gen (easier said than done if they're only 3 gens left and it can be on all of them) and it leads to drawn out matches which take a very long time but don't encourage players to interact with each other more than a standard length match because the killer is constantly kicking gens and survivors are stunned continuously. It's also a perk that does better against solo than swf and even with the changes to the hud this holds true, considering this is one of the most used perks at the moment this leads to significant discrepancies to the balance and experience of solo and swf.
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So if something isn´t OP its crap. Got it.
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Fair point.
So the survivors can´t do much during those 25 seconds (apart from repositioning). The time between the down and the end of the hooking animation is aprox 20-25 seconds. Unless the survivor gets downed right under a hook.
How about DH? It also prolongs chases. Often for more than 25 seconds and since its meta, a killer is bound to face it several times per match. Is that ok?
The advantage of Eruption for survivors is, that the killer often has to break chases in order to kick gens. This prevents chases/downs and gives survivors the option to go for something else instead of starting a chase.
Eruption isn´t unhealthy for DbD. At least not unhealthier than other perks. We had really healthy perk/combos like Undying Ruin. That got nerfed hard and then Eruption was buffed to give killers something. What do people think will happen when Eruption gets nerfed? There will come something else. Something that might be scarier. Just saying.
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This is the sentiment that I hate the most. I get it that people love their meta perks/loadouts, because they boost their success rates the most, but playing just meta often leads to quite the warped perspective on everything else.
Most meta perks are useful in all situations, so perks that are useful or fun or even both, but situational are already sidelined into the "basically useless"-category, just because you might not get max value each game or even *shudder* no value at all at sometimes.
Meta shapes the game, but a lot of you guys and gals might be surprises how fun the occasional silly buid can be, especially if the useless perks get a chance to shine and you suddenly get a new set of abilities that you never knew were possible.
One of my favorite killer perks is Spies in the Shadow. People laugh at this perk and yes, it got its issues. But it saved my butt more times then I can count, especially because it isn't meta and people don't expect it to be in play.
And as a bonus I am quite 100% confident that exactly Zero survivors got away from me, because they played Calm Spirit and naturally countered it.
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