Dead Hard is overpowered and miserable to play against. It needs to be reworked again. (Video)
Hello,
I got home from another day at the office tonight, and I powered up my gaming console entertainment system to play some Dead by Daylight. I find out that I have an Oni daily to down four survivors while I'm in my power. Okay, no problem, I can do that. Now, I'm very not good mechanically at using Oni. I only play him for dailies or challenges. I'm also only an average killer player. For the very first game of the night, I get to enjoy this extremely fun game of Dead by Daylight.
I implore you to watch the video of this match below. I would love to hear one compelling reason why this perk should continue to exist in its current form. Its absurd. It needs to be changed to do something completely different. Thanks for watching. I apologize for the jerky camera movement, I can't do anything about it. It's a combination of console camera movement and some stick drift on my joystick. I don't really notice it when I play, but I understand it's very noticeable in the video. And once again, I'd like to reiterate, yes I know I'm not good with Oni at all.
Comments
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I'm a big fan of "Dead Hard (With Rizz)"
Almost better than "Girl (With Rizz)"
All things considered, you fell for DH in the EXACT same way 3 times. I understand you can auto-pilot at times, especially after a long day of work, but that's not really the perks fault.
Nea got extremely lucky at the window of Shack. You pretty much could've guessed what Cheryl was gonna do when she ran towards you after being unhooked.
I'm just not really seeing anything super crazy here. This team wasn't super good either and you definitely could've steamrolled them, one person Dead on Hook at 3 gens? Yikes. But I get it, you wanted to play a little nicer and that's a good attitude to have and a valid way to play.
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Don't let people gas light you man. You had a few DH that were avoidable for sure but many more that weren't. I think people seriously expect you to pause mid charge to prevent the forseable DH with how slow the 1 shot is but now that would've given them another loop around the pallet, you'd eat a pallet to the face, or they make the window with that pause. Or somehow the survivor spinning in your face a couple times to still click the DH mid swing is somehow your misplay.
To win that you needed to have tunneled someone out. That said, the survivors could've also won that a lot earlier if they were actually trying to win instead of messing around a lot, which they were.
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I would hate DH a lot less if like half the community didn't have auto-DH scripts. (And before you claim I'm just bad, the game literally plays the "dying state" hit sound, which means that it has to be LITERALLY frame perfect, which I strongly doubt even the best survivors can manage 100% of the time)
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So sick of people crying about Dead Hard. It’s beyond a joke now. I don’t even use the stupid perk and even I am getting angry on behalf of the people that do.
DH was nerfed to the ground and killer mains rejoiced. It was every topic on this forum when it happened. The chance of getting it timed perfectly is such a small window and it can so easily be baited.
It’s a skill issue at this point, not an issue with the perk.
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No, it just means that the server rolled back the hit because of latency.
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Except those situations it can't be baited and you have to swing or take a pallet.
Except those powers that give a big windup animation to prepare for using DH.
Except those powers you can literally see coming and react on time.
Except that it wastes time 'baiting it' even if the person doesn't have it, and time is precious.
Except when someone can use it to get an unsafe unhook (take one hit, finish unhook, DH any followup or escape) and start a chase.
Oh, and then there's the usual hackers and script users, those are still around.
Because DH to a normal attack (not a lunge) in the middle of an empty field is not the problem.
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Which i why say that the best change in dead hard would be to add a small timeframe before the endurance kicks in.
Something like you dash for 0.75 seconds and you only get endurance after 0.25 seconds. Maybe even less then that.
For people who use dead hard normally and predict hits it won't really change much. A script no matter how fast it can react can not predict the future like a human could though
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Honestly. Who cares? It’s there, live with it. The survivor doesn’t even get distance anymore so just keep chasing them and hit them again.
And people think they go against cheaters a lot more often than they actually do.
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Nerfed to the ground lol... If that was the case we woudln't have people that still took this perk... Dead hard was BUFFED actually, not nerfed, because it's even more timewasting than the old version and the reason is quite simple: if in the hands of good survivor old dead hard will help you to reach a pallet or a window in time, extending the chase even further, now not only it will avoid a eventual/potential loss of pallets, but it will also give a speed boost for the survivor (and another health state), making him able to even change loops (so punish you even more), making your efforts to zone someone in area that has few defenses useless. The only killers that won't have issues with dead hard at all are deathslinger and (under certain situations) legion.
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0.25 is extremely slim. I would make 0.5 Endurance with another 0.5 locked in animation, so there is a small time frame that survivor cant drop pallet, allow killer to hit.
But it doesnt fix auto DH when it activate the moment killers swing.
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There is no way to really fix auto DH with the way it is designed. It needs to be reworked into something completely different to fix that.
But that “locked in” animation is a pretty good suggestion.
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I’ve heard it all now.
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Indirectly they gain distance as a result of the speed boost due to the hit they received, often enough to reach a new safe point or move away or prolong the chase
Dh provides a third health state directly and indirectly a speed boost
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i feel ya however at least you arn't ruining peoples games..... because i had to start over i've started doing six feet below lol
camping bubba cause you cant do it any other way.
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I mean, obviously people in this Forum will pretend that only DH lost you the match. But did you really play that well? I mean, you say yourself that you are not really good with Oni and without any offense, this is shown in the video. Which is no big deal and I have to say, I dont really know how hard he is to play with a Controller.
But it looked more like you were matched against a bunch of Survivors who were above your Skill Level. Which is no surprise given that MMR is only a very rough system, but if it would be a functional system which would grant equal games, I dont think that this match would have been possible. Blaming it all on DH is wrong tho, I would rather blame it on Matchmaking in this case (and quite a bunch of Errors, but again, whatever).
Overall, I dont even think you did that bad, 6 Hooks and a 1K against a Team (I would guess at least a 3 man SWF as well) of better Survivors is solid. What struck me the most way your ability to look into flashlights like a Moth instead of looking up or down to avoid Chainblinds (but then, I dont know how much a controller impacts that) and that you did not pick up the Lisa right away when you downed her at around 5:30. Yes, there were other Survivors nearby, but you would have had a guaranteed Hook, because they would not have been able to blind you (which they did later) and she was a missing stack for No Way Out (which you got later from her).
So, yeah... Overall, I dont think that 6 Hooks and a 1K was that bad of an result when it is not a DH-problem but more of a Matchmaking-problem. Plus, you played pretty nice, despite them trying to be a pain in the butt for the whole game.
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If they script it to a killer swing then it won't react fast enough if the killer is in point blank range. 0.25 seconds is a relative long time in those situations
Also won't work against a lot of ranges abilities where looking at when you are about to get hit will.
A delay at the end could also be nice but i fear that it would have to be one or the other if we don't want to completely wreck dead hard
and for me i would prefer autodead hard and having to hold back your swing forever when you are at point blank range to be gone rather then the lose lose at pallets.
I do understand your point of view too though
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I don't see dead hard being the issue here, I think you just need to mind game more. You know the survivors have it but you're swinging almost instantly every time. If you waited at least 2 seconds before swinging you would see them waste DH. It really is that simple.
Your across map sprint ability, that's pretty easy to DH against because the killer is physically running to you, you can also mess it up too against a killer. It's still a 50/50 chance.
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Why do you look at the player tab when you pick someone up? You can be moving as you do this to make it harder to get a blind so they dont know exactly when you "stop" to start the animation.
Also why do you play with a controller? If you can't use a mouse then I feel for you. Several times you get PoV tech'd because you play on controller. Once upon a time Billy had better steering on controller than he did on mouse but we are way past the 2016 era when this was true.
With those questions out of the way..... DH is a problem because it gives a third health state without making the survivor pay for extra healing.
The solution then is to make DH have a penalty. Make healing take 100% longer if you have DH equipped. This will encourage the DH user to play hurt so they have two health states not three. Also mending time could be increased by 50% while using DH so that this is not abused.
Until DH gets changed the best thing to do is hard tunnel someone who has it. You can't DH if you immediately get hit off the hook. It wastes their sprint burst opportunity because they already have a sprint burst from the unhook action.
If Oni is your main this won't apply but you could play killers who can use STBFL to make them get even less distance when you hit them. Oni Nurse and Blight all got hit real had by DH changes because they have a limited window to hit during their power use.
I am NOT saying this is a you problem but looking at your video I can see a few areas you can improve.
1)You lost your first down because you went for some extra hits. Dead dog is extremely problematic for this and it is just something you should not do. Once she crawled to the locker she had complete immunity. Most of the time it would be the right call but not on this map because you have to look away from the wall.
2) You used demon dash a few times when you really didn't need to. One of the secrets to MM is to use the power in defining moments; when blood is rare the same applies to Oni. Maybe you were cycling the power because you had plenty of blood. If you would use it more sparingly when you dont have lots of blood then bravo - skip this suggestion. The only upside of those early extra hits was that you had plenty of blood. Unfortunately the gamble did not pay off.
3) Let's talk about your perks
I. Corrupt was much better before 6.0 because it didn't instantly poof on the first down. Killers like Plague and Nemesis can get a lot more out of it than Oni after the 6.0 changes. You can "do stuff" to the survivors without downing them that helps you tremendously.
II. No Way Out is an overhyped perk. I put this in the "win more" category because it's great if two or three people are dead to secure one more kill. But if no one is dead what do you get? Also there's nothing better in the game currently than just tunneling the first person you hook out of the game (and then if you do that you get no value for this perk). A perk that gives you the most benefit when someone is dead is always a very questionable perk choice for me. Finally it is important to note that super gen rushers who finish the gens really quickly can leave you with maybe two unique characters hooked. In that case NWO becomes a "lose more" perk.
III. Pain Res is your only gen defense perk. That's not going to cut it. You either need to go 2-3 perks for gen defense/ or end game perks like NWO, Bloodwarden, (Remember Me - usually not worth it but...). If you had brought Pain Res, Jolt and Deadlock this would have been a completely different game.
IV. Floods can be very good on Oni for all the same reasons as Nurse and Blight if he has his power ready. But what if he doesn't? As you play better opponents you will find Floods failing you more often.
V. Putting all of this together I think you played a solid 8/10 game here mechanically. But when I look at your perks and the value you got I feel like you didn't get much value from the perks you chose. I would give your perks something like a 4/10 for effect. Maybe this is a bad sample and that happens but I don't see your build and go "omg massive synergy".
Let's say this is your "goto" perk build. If you took some time and learned a different build you could probably have a higher overall potential. I can't tell you what perks you need to excel with Oni. But if all your games start to go like this then I can say that there is a more powerful perk combination out there waiting for you.
"To win that you needed to have tunneled someone out."
He's 100% correct. Sadly this is the state of DBD with efficient SWF players.
-"All things considered, you fell for DH in the EXACT same way 3 times"
There's a difference between falling for the DH and having a limited attack window with Oni's power. That being said - If OP played a different killer that could use STBFL like Nemesis/Demo this could have been a completely different game. Nemesis zombies work much better if you tunnel and Demo is very good at teleporting back to the hook to tunnel someone out.
"So sick of people crying about Dead Hard. It’s beyond a joke now."
DH still has a massive pick rate by top players because it makes chases longer just like the pre nerf version. It lost the ability for bad players to use it well but very good players can still use it to waste a lot of time in chase.
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Tell me then... What's wrong with my analysis? What are your counterpoints? I'm listening...
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Today I learned the most used survivor perk is "nerfed to the ground" I'm sure all the survivors using dead hard are using it out of the kindness of their hearts, and it truly is weak, and if it were nerfed again, it would cause the true overpowered perk sprint burst to rise to the top. /s
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Omg we are still complaining.
My complaint about yall is that yall said yall wanted it to be more skill based. So it is and now people still complain. Yall are so inconsistent.
You let them use dead hard at the right time it's your fault. They got the timing well and got rewarded for it.
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It's just boring to see it again every game, I really miss when people actually used unique builds when dead hard got nerfed, but now it's back to copypasta meta builds. That's why I hate dead hard because meta builds are boring and so unfun to see every single game. Like I feel the same about the gen kick meta if it really makes you feel any better. The meta change literally did very little to change the actual meta of the game. The killer meta is still regression, the survivor meta only has one perk switched around, ds isn't used as much, lol. Like if you think that's great and all good for you, but it's just so boring.
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You could always buff other perks to be good.
A lot of perks on both side are niche and trash
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DH isn’t OP. 😂
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They get a speed boost, which gets distance, and the Killer is locked in an animation cooldown. With some powers, this can be particularly extreme (poor Demo) or just negate their main playstyle (Trickster, obviously, telegraphs when his next hit will down you and that can be reacted to).
"Keep chasing them and hit them again" is literally why the perk is so strong. 15s if they only hold W in a straight line across an empty field and you can immediately get another M1. More if they loop. While other Survivors are sat on gens--20 to 25s total at fastest to get a down and hook someone.
For one perk when used as nothing except budget Overcome. Obviously, when it's used to get an entire extra loop in, it secures way more time.
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"nerfed to the ground" is an exaggeration. ruin was nerfed to the ground, corrupt was nerfed to the ground, ds was nerfed to the ground, those perks have too many downsides to justify a perk slot being used, but dh is still the most popular perk in the game hands down. Its still a third health state, its still used to extend a chase by even longer, its still used at windows/pallets to force a lose lose situation on the killer, and its still easy to time. If it wasnt, nobody would use it.
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