Not even two days and I feel I need to change tactics.

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drsoontm
drsoontm Member Posts: 4,205

Since yesterday, my games as killers have been a lot of parallel-gens/gens-before-friends.

Of course, with the gen progress indicator allowing accurate timings, this is the easiest way to win.

I guess that now, if I want to get consistent progress the main option is tunnelling from the start, with a side of camping.

Comments

  • drsoontm
    drsoontm Member Posts: 4,205
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    The thing is, the reason of that buff makes sense. But I didn't expect to see a radical change so fast.

    I have no idea how they can fix that at the moment. 5 minutes matches are getting old fast.

  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,533
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    It's cause the base Gen regression is too low... and the base Gen progression is too high

    Base Gen progression is 1.0-2.2 charge(s) per second

    Base Gen regression is .25 charges per second

    And even with perks it's only even for 30 seconds.... 30 charges

    %s don't matter so don't start with it

    Then hitting greats and Gen boosting perks matter

  • Blinckx
    Blinckx Member Posts: 426
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    Can you please point out where i said that killers need hard-buffing please ? Don't put words in my mouth. I litteraly said "counterbalancing" meaning if you add something on a side, you should add something on the other side as well. No matter if you think if a batstick or not, that's the status of the game right now, you need to hard tunnel in order to win, more than even with some low tier killers. And you're feel free to don't trust me of course, just see the how the game goes in the following weeks, you will see and increase of tunnelling even more. Why ? Well read what i have just said.

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,434
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    Putting all killers into a group is so weird. Your really going to group myers, wraith, neme and blight in the same group like it means something. Yes that wraith will either be abusing CoB, eruption or tunneling in order to win games. I don't have to play like that and get salt maybe 1 in 20 games as Blight. It's like saying I don't have to be efficient in my 4 man swf with meta perks compared to I have to sweat every game while bringing in flip-flop, UB and power struggle just to escape! It's just such a bad comparison. I can run pig for gens as a relatively bad survivor compared to my killer skill level, that's what makes m1 killers fun to vs for a lot of people.

  • HugTheHag
    HugTheHag Member Posts: 3,140
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    Not all killers, but yeah, you've summed up the forums pretty well.

  • Blinckx
    Blinckx Member Posts: 426
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    "casual versus competitive" that's the summary of it all. Either I play casually and lightly and I'm content to stay in the lower part of the game or I play to win and I strive to win, I'm not "friends" with the opponent (in the game of course). Taking it to the extreme it's like sport at an amateur and professional level, if you like to play as an amateur it's your free choice and that's fine, but if I want to play at another level well, it's my choice.


    that's why I argue that, instead of this stupid MMR where everyone, both those who want to play casually and those who want to play seriously, are together, there should be two modes "ranked" and "unranked" and everyone would find his oasis of peace

  • IronKnight55
    IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,897
    edited February 2023
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    Oh please! Most of you tunnel and camp already (especially since it's much easier to do). We see killers posting this crap after every update, lmao. Just go ahead and do it instead of telling us about it.

    Post edited by IronKnight55 on
  • Blinckx
    Blinckx Member Posts: 426
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    I notice more and more often that here people either don't know how to read or they invent things or put words in the mouth of others. I never said that the new HUD should be changed, on the contrary, I said it is an intelligent and necessary change. What I said and it seems obvious to me is that a buff (or QoL if it makes you happier) of this type without a balance on the killer side will necessarily lead to an even more extreme game than it was now. If before, against a SoloQ team I could even afford to play light, now I have to assume that I'm facing an SFW or almost so I have to go heavy.

    Then I've never made a secret that, as a style of play, I start tunneling from the first second if I get the chance, I play to win and I'm not ashamed at all

  • StickyB
    StickyB Member Posts: 96
    edited February 2023
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    I got told today that I must not have a mortgage cos I tunnelled someone out. While this is true, Can anyone help me find out if this is true with everyone? Do all us people who tunnel have no mortgages? Have I just encountered an economics genius.

    I mean in the same conversation I got told B:COH and Dead Hard aren't meta perks but we ignore that part.


    But on a proper note, I don't see any issue with tunnelling if you're ok with going against trihards. I struggle a lot now and have resorted to tunnelling early on and it gets me consistently with 2kills+ (I don't run the sweatiest of builds or killers)

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,146
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    Red forest is 1 of Trapper's best realms. Traps spawn at corner is still a thing though.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,146
    edited February 2023
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    Its because a Gen of 90% progression dropped to 0 is stupid on its own. Gen progression bar should have 2 check points (30sec & 60sec) that cant regressed further than check points, then the regression speed can be tripple.

  • sanees
    sanees Member Posts: 518
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    the problem with many survivors of this discussion is that they hear but do not listen

  • NewPlayer100102
    NewPlayer100102 Member Posts: 515
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    I only sorta tunneled. It was late in the game, and I wasn't paying attention.

    I actually have a mortgage.

    After that she thanked me for entertaining her group for twenty minutes and promised to mail crumpets.

    This new hud has cured the game.

  • HoodedWildKard
    HoodedWildKard Member Posts: 2,013
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    Absolutely agree. I've mentioned about a ranked/casual split a fair few times on the forums. Even made a thread about it

    It would hugely improve the game for the most part. Because the current melting pot of a playlist is an absolute mess. Survs complain about being tunneled, facecamped and slugged by salty BMing killers. Killers complain about being genrushed, bodyblocked and torch bullied by salty BMing survivors. 2 separate playlists based on how you want to play at the time would be nice.

    The other issue is that as an asymmetric game, getting the balance right at higher levels of play is going to be extremely tricky. A team of 4 extremely good survivors is going to be a nightmare to play against for most killers. And a basically competent killer is going to absolutely take apart a team of mediocre/new survivors. Just look at tournament rules, there are certain disallowed perks etc which shows the game is unbalanced at a base level.

  • drsoontm
    drsoontm Member Posts: 4,205
    edited February 2023
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    Oh, it happened but it wasn't too common and it was a riskier venture except for SWFs (the bigger the better). I didn't mind as I could punish it dearly.

    My issue is that for some reason that's almost all I'm getting (except for the full-newbies group that sometimes pop in my trial after I lose a couple of matches : talk about adding insult to injury.)

    I'm not sure how to fix this. I play both roles and it's obvious these changes are a positive thing for the solos. But on another hand, as killer I can only play efficiently now. This is getting stale fast.

    I've watched a recent video from the Otzdarva guy. What he says in it makes sense. I used to play "nice" most of the time, except against bullies, at least for the past 2k hours (I've got more than 3k).

    I'm not sure I'll dare to play survivor anymore. I find games usually quite relaxing compared to killer but it the trend goes full tunnel, I will not like it so much, I think.


    Oh, and nerfing the good things is a recipe for diaster. Buffing the weaker parts is the way.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077
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    You seem to love referring to 'killers' as if one low-credibility account is representative of even a loose majority.

    Also - that wasn't even what he said.

    Define 'most'.

    I'm now creeping up on 1,000 games in my dataset.

    Camping games outside of it being a desperation move (and I don't think even you'd be so petty as to get salty with a killer for trying to camp out a single kill) are barely even double digits (12).

    Tunneling games...not even 10%.

  • foxsansbox
    foxsansbox Member Posts: 2,209
    edited February 2023
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    @drsoontm is one of the most patient, genuinely objective people on these forums in my limited experience.

    Watching what comes crawling out of the woodwork to completely miss their point, deflect, make borderline personal attacks, and then draw ridiculous strawman comparisons against them is both entertaining and a sad reflection of how this community operates when they can't evolve.

  • o7o
    o7o Member Posts: 332
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    Most of what I read on these forums is both entertaining and ridiculous and why I'm barely on these forums anymore.

    Also @ me next time.

    We all knew what OP meant, as if it hasn't been a topic forever.

  • o7o
    o7o Member Posts: 332
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    Watching what comes crawling out of the woodwork to completely miss their point, deflect, make borderline personal attacks, and then draw ridiculous strawman comparisons against them is both entertaining and a sad reflection of how this community operates when they can't evolve.

    hm

  • foxsansbox
    foxsansbox Member Posts: 2,209
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    Just so I'm understanding, there's no reason to @ you. You just want it anyway?

  • KFChris18
    KFChris18 Member Posts: 109
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    This right here is exactly what I was worried about. Like OP, I'm ok with the update and the changes it makes. However, BHVR will need to update killer side of things quickly, otherwise nothing will objectively change. Killers will still tunnel because it is by and large the best strategy these days. I might get flamed for saying this, but I also think that adding a gen progress bar is a bit too much info to have. Maybe just an indicator that a survivor is working on a gen, but knowing how much progress a gen has is too valuable of information too have. I've already won games because I know where a survivor is and how much progress the gen they are working on has.

  • o7o
    o7o Member Posts: 332
    edited February 2023
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    There's no reason to arbitrarily defend someone when they made a refutable claim, but hey.

  • DBDVulture
    DBDVulture Member Posts: 2,437
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    -"I'm not sure how to fix this."

    Survivors got base kit anti tunneling but killers did not. We need Base kit deadlock with rollback protection. If two gens get completed then one rolls back to 99% completion. Make the perk by the same name extend the blockage for +30 seconds (60 total).

    Only an ignorant person is going to say that survivors rushing their objective does not require the killer to rush their objective.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 2,353
    edited February 2023
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    Your argument is a red herring. Nothing will stop killers from camping/tunneling except direct punishments to those playstyles. Patch 6.1 was great for killers and what did it do—it made camping & tunneling more common. Let’s stop pretending that handicapping survivors is gonna make killers tunnel and camp less. No one believes that—not even you.

  • Gamall
    Gamall Member Posts: 487
    edited February 2023
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    There's no need to let us know that you, like at least 70% of the crybabies killer in here, are so lacking in skill issues that you have to resort to tunnelling/camping to try and get the 4k you so desperately deserve (and you are entitled to). Obviously it's the addition of dots to the side of the survivor icons that's sure to make you lose a lot of matches, and not because you may find yourself playing as you go up MMR with more and more skilled people, it's so hard to admit you're not up to scratch isn't it?

    As if killers didn't already tunnel since the beginning of the ages then... you know what's new

  • KFChris18
    KFChris18 Member Posts: 109
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    I do believe it. The reason why tunneling is so popular is because other killer strats got gutted. Want to camp? Survivors learn to ignore the hooked and do gens or use reassurance. Want to do hit and run? CoH and medkits will make them heal up in no time. What does that leave killers, when gens are only getting faster? If you aren't an s-tier killer, you will not 4k without relying on slowdown perks or tunneling. I encourage you to play killer for a session and see for yourself.

  • o7o
    o7o Member Posts: 332
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    I was just trying to be respectful about it. I just started maining killer this past week and it still feels the same before this update: I don't feel pressured or forced to play a certain way and can still play however I want. Obviously, survivors are doing gens now, but it is still literally the same as before.

    And with queue times being super fast after this update and MMR feeling like it doesn't exist currently, I just don't get how people are still struggling. People get this premonition from a change that it's going to "force" them to play a certain way because everyone is just going to become gencrankerpro9000 gods when that is so not true. I am still going against people who hide, bully squads, or people who do gens but aren't that great at looping so it's just easy gen pressure and downs. Even the current gen layouts make it super easy for killer.

    Tunneling/slugging went from being strategically used to just abused because killers are too lazy to get better.

  • FMG15
    FMG15 Member Posts: 456
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    The best way of punishing gens before friends is by confirming second stages and that is very easy since they try to wait for the last possible moment until they have to save.

    I had a match as Billy on dead dawg. Mid game I hooked a Yui and she was second stage. Now while I chased a survivor I noticed that a Meg was walking (she had sprint burst) towards the hook and the Yui was about to die. So I capitalized on that and chainsaw sprinted towards the hook downing Meg when she was about to unhook the Yui. Yui died and now I had a much bigger pressure. This mistake was what cost them the game. And this is literally the deciding factor in almost all of my games. I lose because I'm too nice and allow them to prioritize them to do gens before unhooking even though I should punish that. More and more survivors are trying this high risk high reward strategy of unhooking late so they can do gens so I should capitalize on that as killer.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,376
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    This is exactly what I wrote in another post. This update is indeed a QoL change, however the information does correlate with strength as well. There is no denying that. That has always been the biggest strength of SWFs. Now with this update we will see a shift in scales. How much I cannot say but I doubt the 60% kill rates will still be a thing and I predict the kill rates for slower pacing killers to be way lower.

    Buffing SoloQ efficiency will prove exactly why killers complain about 'gen rush'. The game can easily end in less than 5 minutes. With some of the lower tier killers and even mid tier killers you're happy, if you can get a hit in the first 60 seconds of a match. Efficiency is a killer's biggest weakness. They aren't really supposed to tunnel, so there is anti-tunnel perks. With BT base kit we cleared up space in the survivors's perk slots as well, which allows for another Prove Thyself, CoH or whatever. Creating dead zones is a thing of the past. I remember starting to play the game and not being to unhappy with giving up a hit for a few pallets. Now this isn't enough anymore. The game will long be over before you can get through their resources, which leaves survivors's mistakes as the only option for most killers to somehow slow down the game. Camping is countered by gen efficiency and Reassurance. Hit and run doesn't work since CoH and it's gotten worse with the inflation of items and addons we see. Normal chasing is not enough. The killer can't magically go through walls (except Nurse) to make the chase end quicker. All of this means that killers find themselves with a lot of options, all of them being bad in their own way. Tunneling, however is the strategy with the most potential.

    Though, I don't think BHVR will let it get to out of hand and eventually react with further killer buffs. Maybe they'll even realize that 25% base regress is absolutely abismal and nerfing perks that encouraged more healthy play styles without other incentives for those isn't a smart choice.

  • AbsolutGrndZer0
    AbsolutGrndZer0 Member Posts: 1,282
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    My issue is I am not even tunneling or camping, at least not what I consider being such (and I play survivor too, so you know, I kinda have that going for me to determine if I would be mad at a killer doing what I am doing) but apparently I am because...

    Well, this happens:


  • edgarpoop
    edgarpoop Member Posts: 8,096
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    I've had a total of 2 survivors escape since the update dropped (I know, I'm on a magical server and my hidden number must be -5 or something). Seeing gen progress without gen locations is not all that meaningful in the grand scheme of things. It's QoL, but it's not putting anyone over the top. If someone said "my gen is at 50%", I'd ask them what gen they were on, because progress alone tells me nothing if I'm in a chase and need to know what to avoid.

  • CheesyBabyBoi
    CheesyBabyBoi Member Posts: 234
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    i dont get why people are always saying "iM LOsInG aLL tHe tiMe aND i gUeSs i hAVe tO cAmP aNd tUnNeL tO wIN nOw" ive never been a sweaty player for kills, ive never played toxic just because, and i dont have an issue with having to play dirty to win.

    for me 0k is a loss, 1k is a tie, 2k+ is a definitive win, if you think differently ok, but if youre having a bad time and you start playing like a stank because its the easiest way to win thats on you, not on the people you lose against

    and only sometimes on the devs for weird game but we love the devs theyre great