We Are (Actually) Legion (Legion Overhaul)
Comments
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Rework soon, as in the same with Freddy and DS getting a rework soon? If that's the case, we'll be waiting a couple years I guess. I just bought this killer and he's complete garbage. He's even worse than Freddy. It's almost better to just run around the map and not even use his power. Hope this gets fixed soon.
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@iceman2kx said:
Rework soon, as in the same with Freddy and DS getting a rework soon? If that's the case, we'll be waiting a couple years I guess. I just bought this killer and he's complete garbage. He's even worse than Freddy. It's almost better to just run around the map and not even use his power. Hope this gets fixed soon.DS is getting a rework around the next patch (thank the Entity in all her malevolent power), Freddy will also be getting a rework. I'd suggest you practice with Legion. I got to rank 1 with them and can get at least two kills, sometimes 3 to 4 if I play like a sweaty try hard.
Anyways, I hope the devs do something to give the Legion some love.
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@Shad03 said:
@FayeZahara said:
I like this idea and maybe make unique survivor animation they do as they wait. Like susie is practicing her stabs and laughing. Joe is cleaning his knife with finger. Julie is crouched carving a heart at floor. Frank is just spinning knife crouched.The ideas are endless. I would imagine in a map like The Game, Susie would just be sitting over a ledge and swinging her legs. And if she spots a survivor she jumps down or gets up and runs out of sight.
Think they could probally do 1 animation.... any unique map animations would be to cool and also too hard for them. But it also make use of cosmetics worth more if they had some flavour cause legion is only killer with non unique animated cosmetics. I doubt he could get unique cosmetics so making him have own emote going with your idea be welcomed. The only way i could see legion if a rich person got an led mask and joined legion. It probally would be alot harder to make daft punk scary.
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@FayeZahara said:
@Shad03 said:
@FayeZahara said:
I like this idea and maybe make unique survivor animation they do as they wait. Like susie is practicing her stabs and laughing. Joe is cleaning his knife with finger. Julie is crouched carving a heart at floor. Frank is just spinning knife crouched.The ideas are endless. I would imagine in a map like The Game, Susie would just be sitting over a ledge and swinging her legs. And if she spots a survivor she jumps down or gets up and runs out of sight.
Think they could probally do 1 animation.... any unique map animations would be to cool and also too hard for them. But it also make use of cosmetics worth more if they had some flavour cause legion is only killer with non unique animated cosmetics. I doubt he could get unique cosmetics so making him have own emote going with your idea be welcomed. The only way i could see legion if a rich person got an led mask and joined legion. It probally would be alot harder to make daft punk scary.
Mmm.
Also I added in new content, such as individual Legion Mixtapes.
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I have an idea!
The Legion would look like and act like a survivor... They would be able to repair gens (degrades them) and heal others (down them after 2 seconds after healing them)... The legion would have 5 options... 4 of which would be the survivors who he's facing (including the cosmetics) and the other would be Legion... Switching forms would take 6 seconds... He'd have no TR when a survivor but a TR of 32 when Legion... This would confuse the survivors and would keep the survivors away from eachother and it would make it difficult to trust others...0 -
@Shad03 said:
@iceman2kx said:
Rework soon, as in the same with Freddy and DS getting a rework soon? If that's the case, we'll be waiting a couple years I guess. I just bought this killer and he's complete garbage. He's even worse than Freddy. It's almost better to just run around the map and not even use his power. Hope this gets fixed soon.DS is getting a rework around the next patch (thank the Entity in all her malevolent power), Freddy will also be getting a rework. I'd suggest you practice with Legion. I got to rank 1 with them and can get at least two kills, sometimes 3 to 4 if I play like a sweaty try hard.
Anyways, I hope the devs do something to give the Legion some love.
You can pip with legion without hooking a single person, I did that during my depip session, the only guy I killed was with rancor because I like to see the animation, it's so violent it gives me a boner. So getting to R1 as legion is not an achievement.
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@Mr_Black said:
@Shad03 said:
@Mr_Black said:
@Shad03 said:
@vampire_toothy said:
@Mr_Black said:
Legion is fine how he is... He just needs a slight nerf to his feral frenzy... And maybe make him more realistic...
E.g.
Walk Speed: 4.0 m/s
Feral Frenzy Speed: 5.2 m/s
Height: Average
Terror Radius: 284 m/s would make Legion the same exact speed as survivors meaning they would only ever be able to catch up with bloodlust or feral frenzy, which to my knowledge I'm pretty sure the majority of players want to go down to a normal chase, not being stabbed 4 times with their power. Your straight up nerf to Legion would make him the actual worst killer in the game and give them the excuse to retain broken addons like frank's mixtape.
Regarding the OP, I actually like this rework idea, it's pretty cool - I remember putting up a rework for the legion a while ago but I don't think the post ever actually took off. But I like the fact that you incorporated a way to use each legion member, though maybe instead of having Joey be the member with the slowest vault speed, perhaps allow him to be the member that can break pallets?
@Mr_Black Legion is fine how he is? No not really. The nerfs you put are worse then what the Devs did to poor Freddy, but at least you can make the argument that Freddy can still consistently kick more arse.
@vampire_toothy Thank you, friend. I'll look through and see if I can find your discussion, then I'll read and leave a comment. Regarding your suggestion, hmm, it would certainly give him that brute status. I'll add it.
(Oh geez, I shudder at the amount of coding it would take to implement this idea.)
He needs no buff... He needs a tad nerf on his base speed... He is primarily a chaser, with his feral frenzy, he doesn't need base speed... They also need to solve the whole deep wounds pausing thing... The Legion can just look down when chasing and the timer will carry on...
People say that I'm delusional sometimes. But I doubt whatever drink I can get my hands on will make me as delusional as you. I assume you are a troll and if so, I congratulate you, but if not, please, step away from this thread.
You need to accept criticism... If anything, Legion will get a tad nerf... Legion does not need fast base speed as his feral frenzy gets him to run at more than 4.6m/s... No need to increase their walking speed... And what you suggested was insane as that'd make Legion pretty OP... And his one counter play is gen rushing... This idea would make it impossible to counter him...
By your profile pic, I assume you are a Legion main and highly biassed towards him... Legion is the ultimate chaser... He needs no buff...You sound like someone who only plays survivor and never plays killer. He wants to change legion and if you actually read his post which from your entitled stand point of not wanting to make the game healthier by fixing legion, you probably didn't. He took away some of his brainless chase power adding more counterplay.
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Bud, he’s near worthless without exploiting or OP addondMr_Black said:@Shad03 said:
@Mr_Black said:
@Shad03 said:
@vampire_toothy said:
@Mr_Black said:
Legion is fine how he is... He just needs a slight nerf to his feral frenzy... And maybe make him more realistic...
E.g.
Walk Speed: 4.0 m/s
Feral Frenzy Speed: 5.2 m/s
Height: Average
Terror Radius: 284 m/s would make Legion the same exact speed as survivors meaning they would only ever be able to catch up with bloodlust or feral frenzy, which to my knowledge I'm pretty sure the majority of players want to go down to a normal chase, not being stabbed 4 times with their power. Your straight up nerf to Legion would make him the actual worst killer in the game and give them the excuse to retain broken addons like frank's mixtape.
Regarding the OP, I actually like this rework idea, it's pretty cool - I remember putting up a rework for the legion a while ago but I don't think the post ever actually took off. But I like the fact that you incorporated a way to use each legion member, though maybe instead of having Joey be the member with the slowest vault speed, perhaps allow him to be the member that can break pallets?
@Mr_Black Legion is fine how he is? No not really. The nerfs you put are worse then what the Devs did to poor Freddy, but at least you can make the argument that Freddy can still consistently kick more arse.
@vampire_toothy Thank you, friend. I'll look through and see if I can find your discussion, then I'll read and leave a comment. Regarding your suggestion, hmm, it would certainly give him that brute status. I'll add it.
(Oh geez, I shudder at the amount of coding it would take to implement this idea.)
He needs no buff... He needs a tad nerf on his base speed... He is primarily a chaser, with his feral frenzy, he doesn't need base speed... They also need to solve the whole deep wounds pausing thing... The Legion can just look down when chasing and the timer will carry on...
People say that I'm delusional sometimes. But I doubt whatever drink I can get my hands on will make me as delusional as you. I assume you are a troll and if so, I congratulate you, but if not, please, step away from this thread.
You need to accept criticism... If anything, Legion will get a tad nerf... Legion does not need fast base speed as his feral frenzy gets him to run at more than 4.6m/s... No need to increase their walking speed... And what you suggested was insane as that'd make Legion pretty OP... And his one counter play is gen rushing... This idea would make it impossible to counter him...
By your profile pic, I assume you are a Legion main and highly biassed towards him... Legion is the ultimate chaser... He needs no buff...0 -
@MhhBurgers said:
@Shad03 said:
@iceman2kx said:
Rework soon, as in the same with Freddy and DS getting a rework soon? If that's the case, we'll be waiting a couple years I guess. I just bought this killer and he's complete garbage. He's even worse than Freddy. It's almost better to just run around the map and not even use his power. Hope this gets fixed soon.DS is getting a rework around the next patch (thank the Entity in all her malevolent power), Freddy will also be getting a rework. I'd suggest you practice with Legion. I got to rank 1 with them and can get at least two kills, sometimes 3 to 4 if I play like a sweaty try hard.
Anyways, I hope the devs do something to give the Legion some love.
You can pip with legion without hooking a single person, I did that during my depip session, the only guy I killed was with rancor because I like to see the animation, it's so violent it gives me a boner. So getting to R1 as legion is not an achievement.
The thing is I've been trying to get to r1 WITHOUT using any of his 'no brain' tactics. I've played like how I always play with any killer, I chase, I stab, I knock down. If I can use his power in a beneficial way for me, then I use it. I go out of my way to kill people.
So it might not be a achievement for you, but for someone like me it is. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though :eh:
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@Mr_Black said:
I have an idea!
The Legion would look like and act like a survivor... They would be able to repair gens (degrades them) and heal others (down them after 2 seconds after healing them)... The legion would have 5 options... 4 of which would be the survivors who he's facing (including the cosmetics) and the other would be Legion... Switching forms would take 6 seconds... He'd have no TR when a survivor but a TR of 32 when Legion... This would confuse the survivors and would keep the survivors away from eachother and it would make it difficult to trust others...Yeah yeah, this could work.
All you have to do is pray you get into a lobby filled with solos and no one else. I tell you, even though my own power through swf is not as good as I would like, me and my buddies would squash this Legion no problem. People had wanted a killer like this for a while but unfortunately, this wouldn't work.
At least you gave something rather then a straight up nerf like you did earlier.
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@Shad03 said:
@MhhBurgers said:
@Shad03 said:
@iceman2kx said:
Rework soon, as in the same with Freddy and DS getting a rework soon? If that's the case, we'll be waiting a couple years I guess. I just bought this killer and he's complete garbage. He's even worse than Freddy. It's almost better to just run around the map and not even use his power. Hope this gets fixed soon.DS is getting a rework around the next patch (thank the Entity in all her malevolent power), Freddy will also be getting a rework. I'd suggest you practice with Legion. I got to rank 1 with them and can get at least two kills, sometimes 3 to 4 if I play like a sweaty try hard.
Anyways, I hope the devs do something to give the Legion some love.
You can pip with legion without hooking a single person, I did that during my depip session, the only guy I killed was with rancor because I like to see the animation, it's so violent it gives me a boner. So getting to R1 as legion is not an achievement.
The thing is I've been trying to get to r1 WITHOUT using any of his 'no brain' tactics. I've played like how I always play with any killer, I chase, I stab, I knock down. If I can use his power in a beneficial way for me, then I use it. I go out of my way to kill people.
So it might not be a achievement for you, but for someone like me it is. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though :eh:
a "no brain" tactic would be stabbing everytime even if a survivor is out in the open. A nobrain playstyle would be never using his m2
Sometimes it's good to chain your M2 for example at a pallet, if you hit somebody in the open ofc you'd go for the regular m1.
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@MhhBurgers said:
@Shad03 said:
@MhhBurgers said:
@Shad03 said:
@iceman2kx said:
Rework soon, as in the same with Freddy and DS getting a rework soon? If that's the case, we'll be waiting a couple years I guess. I just bought this killer and he's complete garbage. He's even worse than Freddy. It's almost better to just run around the map and not even use his power. Hope this gets fixed soon.DS is getting a rework around the next patch (thank the Entity in all her malevolent power), Freddy will also be getting a rework. I'd suggest you practice with Legion. I got to rank 1 with them and can get at least two kills, sometimes 3 to 4 if I play like a sweaty try hard.
Anyways, I hope the devs do something to give the Legion some love.
You can pip with legion without hooking a single person, I did that during my depip session, the only guy I killed was with rancor because I like to see the animation, it's so violent it gives me a boner. So getting to R1 as legion is not an achievement.
The thing is I've been trying to get to r1 WITHOUT using any of his 'no brain' tactics. I've played like how I always play with any killer, I chase, I stab, I knock down. If I can use his power in a beneficial way for me, then I use it. I go out of my way to kill people.
So it might not be a achievement for you, but for someone like me it is. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though :eh:
a "no brain" tactic would be stabbing everytime even if a survivor is out in the open. A nobrain playstyle would be never using his m2
Hmmnn. Half the community would disagree with you, then. Cause apparently from what I've heard a 'no brain' tactic would be to just stab and tunnel the same person over and over again or just following the blood. I use the tools at my disposal, if attacking normally is beneficial, I'll regular attack. More people around, I'll use Frenzy. Anyways, I see what you're saying.
And I got no more to add to that train of thought either.
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Bump
Changed some wordings in the original post for a smoother read. Mostly for how the effects work.
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Honestly I love enjoy legion as killer and as a survouir. I've had really fun games playing and against I have no idea why everyone is hating on them. People say there's no counter but maybe drop your meta perks and think outside the box experiment keep apart! It's the kinda same thing as freddy or seems that way.. can't be bothered to try different play style or different play styles oh no we can just demand changes. I feel sorry for the devs with this kinda mentality ☹️
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@Darkskies Don't get me wrong, I love playing as and against the Legion too. However, seeing as how they were getting reworked anyways, I wanted to throw my mask into the ring for my own idea. Which is less a rework and more of a overhaul.
I also want to have a reason to have all four in a match together, so it truly feels like you are up against four killer teens working together.
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BTW that's not meant as a horrible comment great job on thinking of changes etc I just don't understand the hate legion gets 🙂
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@Darkskies I know ^_^
You and me both on that last part though. People need to learn to adapt.
I foresee comments coming. I think they'll be along the lines of:
"There is no counterplay." "Explain how to counterplay FMT and Moon Walking".
Urgh. I just want feedback on the original post, I put my blood and sweat into it.
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I would have had moments when I'm walking around trying to find gens and I see a running survouir I'm like oh great team work! Only to get closer and get a terror heart beat then I'm like oh hey legion! I would really enjoy legion to have a mind game ability to act or micic survouirs. I think that would be really fun and also that's what I got from the trailer that oh we are working together but then to get stabbed I was so hoping for that tbh.Your ideas sound cool I like the idea of all legions being on the map as kinda look outs but doubt they could do swapping sounds like crazy coding plus different elements to them probably to much information going on for the game.
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@Darkskies Yeah I know.
I wouldn't mind a sort of stalking mechanic though. However, I feel like that is just a easy way out.
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A mori with all four of them involved would be interesting. All four legion members ganging up on the survivor would actually make Legion look like a credible threat.
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I would love it if all characters were present in the same match. It might even open up a new possibility of a lore-based mori. Imagine the Legion crowding around a survivor and all stabbing them to death? That would be awesome. I like that you would make the idle characters still interact with survivors, by the way. I don't know if this would be overpowered or not, but coming from a survivor main, I'm not entirely opposed. :)
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I don't mind the idea of other legion cosmetics standing around being like spies from the shadows but i think the whole idea is too much. Like base speeds and abilities. I think I'd rather just see them as little Maurices and they can make their own unique sounds constantly. Like Julie can be cackling under her breath, Joey can ask you where you're going or whistle, Susie could be heard kicking her foot and breathing heavy to calm down like she's nervous behind her mask. I just imagine the game having to change so much or the devs thinking so far out the box that newer killers become to foreign compared to older ones if we mess with the legions and make them more than cosmetics.
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I know. I just want... SOMETHING to do with them being a Legion. Having some power that complements it. But we all know this is not gonna be used, and besides, it'll probably set a higher standard or something.
But anyways, having the other three being something like little Maurices would be pretty cool.
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That would be incredible. Would love to have them each of them included in a mori.
I had it so that the idle members at base kit would only give off an alert. And their mixtapes would allow for them to attack, plus that's what the fuming mixtape is for. Would be interesting to see.
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Mm. Yes, all four murdering one poor soul. David King and Jeff would not stand a chance.
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It has always troubled with the legion of the idea of one teenager taking on full grown adults, even some as jacked as David.
Yes the legion has a knife (or a ruler with a compass point taped to it), but he or she could easily be overpowered.
I wholeheartedly agree that the entire legion should be on the playing field. They are strong as a unit, not as an individual. A mori would actually show the full power of an entity driven group of psychopathic teens.
I can just never take the legion seriously because of their current state.
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Amen to that.
Though to be fair anybody with a weapon can kill or harm a unarmed individual. This is especially the case when that somebody has a ancient being guiding them.
David King could easily tear the Hag apart, she's skinny as a twig. A good punch is all that is needed.
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I, uh, made this.
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@NoodleLegs I never smiled so hard in my life.
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Devs would need AI for the ultra rare addons which has never been done before which would take a super long time to develop
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@Zanfer Could be something simple. And if they would be willing to do this I'll be willing to wait for it. It's not like people wanna learn to adapt to Legion anyways.
But honestly, this is the most complex thing that has graced the forums. I'm fine with something much simpler too.
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Yeah of course I am not saying "They shouldn't do it". The problem is there are lots of things that break whenever this game updates. The devs have to spend time on a variety of issues that occur whenever a new killer comes out. Trying to make AI work functional in this game with a lot of variables is difficult. For example: AI idle animations might get stuck in specific objects. Dropped pallets, might get stuck going through windows, etc. Any interaction this AI might do will cause at least one or more bugs when completed. It will take a while, but I also wanna see some love to Freddy too. People say Leatherface needs an overhaul, but I like him the way he is imo.
I am all for a legion change to make him more fun. In my opinion they just need to fix the chase mechanic cause that is the only way half of the legion players down me is by barley looking away and downing you. When the chase mechanic is fixed to where chase would start in x meters away even when the killer isn't looking at you (this would be vertically so if the killer is on the ground and someone is on a second story than the chase would not go on. (This is just a simple change to chase, but I know they can do better than this)
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Freddy of course needs love. ANd all Leatherface needs is for his add ons to actually mean something.
The only change, the only REAL change Legion needs, is a longer and faster base Feral Frenzy. With add ons to compensate for it. I honestly feel like a proximity would actually make the situation worse, because I know how people could exploit it. Since it'd become a built in whispers. Plus the chase starting would make things even more confusing. Sometimes I enter a chase and I'm like 'Wait, there is a person here?' And I end up wasting my time.
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Yeah true. Built in whispers could be annoying was just trying to think of something on the spot. Also you want legion to have longer and faster feral frenzy since the only one who can break pallets is Joey? The issue that people have with legion is you get outskilled by a killer who has really fast cooldown on missed attacks and really good tracking will always get you hit by frenzy every time. Making the killer go faster with the power will just be more annoying and harder to get away from the current state it is in now.
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I meant the current Legion we have now.
As for my overhaul, I am thinking of ways to have balance without being op. Susie and Joey would be the only ones to have Feral Frenzy, but it'd be the same stats as of now.
The only thing this current Legion needs is what I stated. The devs wanted this killer to be a hit and run type, but they failed in giving them the speed/duration to do that. Which is why people exploit them.
I also hope the Pin add ons get reworked -.-
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This sounds like it'd be REALLY hard to code and balance, but also be REALLY h*cking cool.
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...Also, for the Cosmetic thing, how about without the cosmetics bought, everybody just has standard Legion masks? Instead of the fancy-schmancy crack thing Susie has, she just had a Legion mask, perhaps in a frown to make her different from the others. Joey could have no smile and just bloody big eyes, stuff like that. This could also give Julie and Frank new spicy cosmetics that are just as unique as Frank and Susie's.
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It would be insanely hard to code, and the only balance worry would be reworking add ons to fit the overhaul and the bugs that come with such a complex code.
The thing is, the Joey (his one and only skin atm) and Susie (pink hair) cosmetics are canon, and to deny them having their canon outfits in game would be... Weird.
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It would be fun to play against and yes these button ad-dons need to be refreshed clean as a whistle.
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Actually make it so Legion makes any ######### sense?! Good! Hopefully they do that.
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@Zanfer, yes quite.
@Croquedead I mean, they'd require more thought about who is needed, and they lose some unfair mechanics, but as with all things, people will find someway to exploit the Legion no matter what rework they get.
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This topic shouldn't fade into the background as the Legions current rework is almost upon us. It should continue to remain on our conscious as desriable future that is incredibly hard to obtain.
The devs won't tackle such an endeavor because of the simple fact that yes it could be very tedious to code and debug, but also there has to be a significant financial benefit for enacting such an upgrade that would cause them to add new systems to the game. Espcially when it is only a portion of the killer populace that would play as the Legion to begin with.
It would kill me to say that such an upgrade that warrents the use of all four members of the Legion should actually cost the player more to use because that it four individual killers that need to be finetuned and distinct from each other. It would also make sense to make all the characters customizable for that is another possible stream for revenue.
A Legion rework of this magnitude would need to break some established killer rules, but the changes in mechanics can't be tied to cosmetics, in fear of it becoming a pay to win scenario unless blander versions of Joey and Susie were released to compensate. I think though that in order to leave your playable Legion completely customizable that on the perk selection screen there would be the option to change the killer type you would play as on the power box, similar to how survivors change the item they bring in the Legion player would choose which member they would play on this screen.
I for the most part agree with all suggestions for the Legion already discussed regarding variations in the character played and perk abilities, though it the matter of creating AI for the other Legion members of the map would be too complex, simply tying an applied status effect, or aura capabilities seems to be the simplest route to take.
Alright i think i've spoken my fill on a fantasy that may very well never see the light of day. But i refuse to let the dream die! It is such a beautiful concept.
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im sorry but legion is still dead and we cant bring them back
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@TripleTailSlap I poured my blood, sweat and tears into this overhaul, I'm glad to get it some attention.
I do agree with most of your points, with the coding, debugs, all that.
I don't consider it pay to win, as the only thing you'd be paying for is customizing the current Legion you'd be playing as.
I would imagine you can still switch to Joey or Susie even if you hadn't purchased them. That's if the devs don't mind allowing essentially the ability to own cosmetics without purchasing them.
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@friendlykillermain The Legion is not dead, just requires more tweaking.
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perhaps they could be resurrected but once ptb goes live its over
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Added a little bit of new content.
I would rework pin add ons for this but the only thing stopping me is that I don't know the full names for the common and uncommon pins.
You got suggestions for the other add ons? (If so name them please, makes my job easier.)
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