Is there any plans to make killer fun / scary again?
Or is this just how it is now? Playthings for the survivors?
Any word on this, or is killer in a good spot in bhvrs opinion? I dont care what the killstats say. Killer isnt FUN / SCARY anymore. I feel like its my job to just entertain 4 people.
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I mean, this game isn’t scary after the first few hours. Once you play a game, read a scary book, horror movie, etc enough times it stops being scary.
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Yes it goes in waves. Killers will be buffed again, then nerfed, then buffed, nerfed, buffed, nerfed, buffed, nerfed etc
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More like buffed, nerfed, nerfed, slightly buffed, nerfed, Shadow nerfed, buffed in a fun way, followed by an nearly instantly reverse plus making it worse then ever before, because it was deemed "too unfun to verse". Then nothing happens for a while, till the next new map release sends every killer spiraling into depression.
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The more you play and the more you look into numbers, the less scarier it gets. Maybe you can say this about having fun aswell.
For me there're only a few scary things left. When Devour Hope reveals and maybe Plague with Penti/Plaything builds on indoor maps. Also i'd say DBD was always more about jumpscares. This also goes away now as survs can see on the HUD who is getting chased.
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The game stops being scary like a couple weeks after you start playing. I don't think there's much the devs can do about that. You become desensitised to it all.
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Make NOED a non Hex perk, or at least make the totem not flash when near it, then we'll see how much "BM" will happen at the EGC, lets see survivors try to dance around killers.
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Are you serious? We did that before the Noed nerf. This changed nothing mid-high ranks. The change basically helped new players and SoloQ. This new Noed is kind of a joke. All imo of course!
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People are putting too much focus on me saying I just want killers to be scary, as in the horror kind of scary.
I mean survivors dont fear killers. They bully them, causing killers to run blight / nurse who are the only killers they fear. Then complain they see nothing but nurse.
I just got out of a match that in by my first down 3 gens were nearly done, it was on the game and I was just devouring pallets. Even one of the twitch streamers I was against said holy ######### is it already nearly over?
BHVR making previously entire builds basekit for survivor is allowing them to bring entire bully builds.
The survivors should never be able to just bully killers its stupid.
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In contrast to all the other people here. For killer to be super fun you have to have a competitive mindset or the game needs a rework at the base level. There are killer players who are fine running perks that get no value on killers I could easily run myself but I will never feel like that. I am either improving and enjoying it or not having fun in this game or any game. But it's hard to improve in a game where players are so bad, people will actually put 6k hours into dbd and still be bad. Most killers lack any real skill expression outside of general killer macro, you get put in situations where either you win if half decent or you lose with a baseline decent killer game sense. Right now even though I want to get better at survivor it's hard when most killers are terrible and running the most brain dead meta to ever exist and I need to rely on randoms to deal with it. On the contrary it's hard to get better at blight who by far has the highest skill ceiling out of any killer in this game when most survivors don't have the base line skill to play vs him on top of the good survivors not bothering to learn him.
I really don't complain like this often and I'm sure I look toxic on the outside. But no game has ever made me mad just because the players are so bad. In any other game I have played each end of balance is closer together than dbd and has players I can actually improve vs consistently. The reason I got into to this game so much is because it was actually really fun to learn killer and then eventually blight, but it's just so hard to play consistently when I feel like I can't improve by much not because of myself but because of other players. it's not even an ego thing, I got over that long ago for the sake of improvement and enjoyment of video games. The only thing I flame people for being bad at is adc mains in League, because they really are terrible players with -100 mental.
My conclusion is that the large majority of people who come to dbd have never really played video games much or at least pvp games.
The scary part never existed after 2 hours for me. I went against oni once and after that the only scary thing for survivor is getting jump scared by a no terror radius killer.
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I agree completely with you.
I have been saying for years, the game has become too reliant on perks. Its almost like perks are greater than skill. Perks should be fun additive things, not something that can completely change the game and are required. Even killer, I think you should be completely fine to run zero perks and do well. The bare bones game should run on the killer / survivors skill, not the build theyre running.
But all this stuff would require complete reworks to the very gameplay, not bandaging it with perk number changes.
I would love a zero perk mode, completely reliant on skill. But then survivors couldnt bring their bully blind / sabo builds.
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It could happen in customs. That actually sounds pretty damn fun. Perkless on both sides.... I need to talk to my team lol.
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I would be down for that mode. BUT, I need shadow borne to play at his point and I would be willing to trade that for resilience only. Not a fair trade and wouldn't happen, fine by me though.
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So what you're asking for is for killers to be unconditionally insurmountable. I see.
That's not going to happen.
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How do you make something that you experience repeatedly scary again? No devs have a magic wand to bypasses brain mechanics.
And fun is subjective. I mean, look at the Knight, some people find him fun.
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They were happy with the last official kill rates, so that's why we didn't see any changes to killers since. With the new HUD and base kit Unbreakable, that will come at some point, the scales will shift again. They will react to it eventually with some killer buffs. I just hope that it's not gonna be another 6.1.0 where we completely ignore the core issues and randomly buff some numbers.
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I don't think it's about making killer scary i think it's about encouraging survivors to respect the killers presence. Survivors are able to feel too safe in too many situations i feel like and it makes killer frustrating. Survivors shouldn't be able to repair gens safely when the killer is chasing someone very close and survivors shouldn't be able to gang up on killers that are trying to pick up a survivor. There are too many endurance effects - injured survivors can often be just as safe as healthy survivors and even more safe. Healing effects are also way too abundant, killer injuries do not feel impactful. I think to put it simply, killers do not feel dosile. Survivors are in control too much.
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Every single killer in this game should be a challenge for survivors to escape from. They are supposed to be POWERFUL KILLERS.
This game went to sh!t when they added SWF. That’s one reason.
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Why are survivors compared to seal team 6 swf. I see a lot of killer 4ks. If all killers are buffed so everyone can compare to that high tier you are going to killer your low tier ( me) survivor base ahah
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Don't need to imagine something that was.
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I mean when I started playing the game it was scary... minding my own business in a Gen then turning around to see a Mickey staring holes in me... I flinched said a phrase that I can't type and ran away
But after playing for so long it feels more like Scooby-Doo then anything (minus the music)
Even at the end of the match and realize that it was another player (much like unmasking in Scooby-Doo)
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Hardly matters what was, what IS, is what matters.
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The hud change that lets survivors see all the gen completion percentages makes it feel like every game I am playing against seal team 6 even if there are a few solo players.
Even if I win and get a 4k it makes the game far less fun because everyone is way more efficient. It then forces me to tunnel because that is efficient killer play.
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Killers are already the power role, they don't need to be buffed further.
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Are you.. just.. ignorant of the changes?
Eyrie nerf, basekit bonus regression, a buff to generator regression, a buff to hit speed, survivors lost half of the speed they got on hit, maps were made generally smaller with realm beyond, a lot of killers have been touched up, more slowdown and build maneuverability than ever.. Killers get buffed a lot recently. Most 'nerfs' are stupidly broken stuff, like 7 blink nurse.
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It is only scary if you got an indoor map and you have undetectable as a killer, then you can give survivors jumpscares.
myers, ghostface, hag.
Dredge had so much potential to be jumpscare killer but he is too loud
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I s2g modern killer players have no idea how good they have it
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Everyone's experience is relative. People told me the same thing when I started playing in 2018.
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I mean, they weren't wrong
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Eh...
On one hand - yeah, it's a bit silly.
On the other hand - half the killer roster is in an 'okay' place, barring an addon pass or two.
It was -50 yesterday.
It's -30 today.
Is it still cold today?
Yeah, but let's look at those.
- Eyrie...still a strong map. But you've also seen Borgo added, which is horrible on the weakest killers in the game and Garden of Joy which can have an effective infinite.
- Basekit bonus regression and gen speed means diddly squat - because they also buffed 'faster gen' perks out the wazoo, left PTS as is and then added the abominations of hyperfocus and fogwise which...why? Gens, under certain conditions, can be faster than they were before the chances.
- On top of this, nearly all killer regression was nerfed. So you've got (potentially) faster gens and less options for dealing with it.
- The 'hit speed' buffs were a mixed bag, because they only changed M1s. Meaning that some killers that were really struggling, like Demo, were effectively nerfed.
- What other killer buffs were added 'recently?'.
- A realm beyond was ages ago.
- Most...nerfs...ugh. The issue isn't the stupidly OP stuff getting slight tweaks (which is...generally reserved for survivor perks - see Dead Hard), it's mildly OP stuff being nerfed into complete uselessness. See: Thana. Ruin. Overcharge. And almost certainly Eruption.
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Is it cold today?
The average killrate is about 60% and streamers are 4king about 80-90% of their games, and so am I.
Frankly, if it's cold, it's cold for everyone because there's a lot of things the other side does that's absolutely irritating, but I pretty much refuse to play survivor these days and just play killer except with my friends because I loathe the kick + tunneling metas that exist rn. Killer is way more relaxed for me these days.
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That killrate is misleading.
In a dataset of...around 1,000 matches now, about 15-20% of games have either a suicide or a survivor going AFK (not counting DCs, as the kill rate stats exclude them).
This means that the kill rate against solo queue is likely higher, but substantially lower against SWF.
Yes, streamers with 8-10k hours are going to melt faces, but that's more due to the MMR softcap and the changes made.
Do you stream? Because outside of maybe folks like Supaalf and a handful that almost certainly derank offstream (not naming names), I don't think I'm seeing a 90% kill rate.
Eh...solo queue can be maddening but I don't mind it, aside from how badly designed survivor BP/emblem scoring are.
- 'Kick meta'...so, what? You don't want killers to run regression? Eruption is getting nerfed, CoB is the only remaining 'kicky' perk worth a damn and it's not amazing without Eruption...yeah, not sure what else you could possibly mean? Yes, killers run regression. Gen speeds are, against certain comps, faster than 6.1.0. What exactly do you expect them to do?
- Tunneling is weaker than it's ever been, aside from a handful of killers who can break endurance (that should be fixed). But yes, again, removing one person from the game ASAP isn't just how killer feels like it needs to play at a tactical level, at a certain level of play it can be straight up the only way to even contest a match.
Yes, it's cold today. Yes, there are things wrong with the survivor role too - but whataboutism is always worth avoiding. This isn't that thread.
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Nah, I don't stream.
Killers running regression is fine, but regression should be limited. The issue with the kick meta is that it's free, never goes away, and there's nothing you can do about it. Killers shouldn't be able to hold 3-gens as potently as they can now where they rarely have to commit to anybody. Comps that do gens much faster are very much, and PT is disadvantageous to use in most circumstances, it's only ideal when there's a few gens left that need to be done very quickly. But yeah, I do want nerfs for some of that. Hyperfocus shouldn't work with toolboxes for example, BNP needs a new effect, etc.. Just like regression, any gen speed buffs should be super conditional and limited imo, for example Resilience needs to apply hemorrhage to make it not safe.
How much weaker tunneling is is very debateable. OTR is a pretty bad counter to it when many killers, esp. a lot of new ones, are good at getting back to the hook quickly and hitting you during the BT endurance, and then you're left with nothing, DH won't give you an extra health state, etc.. You used to have to deal with decisive strike and dead hard both providing extra chances if you tunnel them, but now decisive is quite bad.
And at the same time, tunneling is much more encouraged than before. BBQ and the pip system used to do a lot to encourage you to spread the pressure, especially BBQ, I know I never tunneled early-game with it because I wanted to be sure I got my blood points. Pop demanded you actually leave too, but was nerfed despite being a really balanced perk. Healing was on average worse before circle too, so hit and run was viable. (Medkits used to be better, but imo it was relatively rare to like bring a 3-heal green)
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All I can think of when reading this is "poor Wraith".
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Okay, going to respond to parts here. You're...close to being right on a few things, but I think you're way off base on others.
Killers running regression is fine, but regression should be limited.
With gens getting faster and faster, regression honestly needs to be better. HFPS is brutal to face.
Killers shouldn't be able to hold 3-gens as potently as they can now where they rarely have to commit to anybody.
All I hear right now is '3gen' '3gen' '3gen'.
In the last...maybe thousand games I've watched/played, there was 1 game where the killer squared off a 3gen to start and never chased anyone.
You have tools to avoid a 3gen. If you 3gen yourselves, that's not the killer's fault. If the killer is not chasing anyone and just holding a 3gen to stall the game, then that's a hostage situation and a moderation issue, not a balance issue.
Something to let solos tell each other what gens to do? Sure. But I don't think that'll do much. You can't balance around solo queue.
Comps that do gens much faster are very much
Huh? Very much...what?
PT is disadvantageous to use in most circumstances
You cannot possibly be serious.
PTS is an insane perk, even if you just have a duo. 1 gen being finished is often more valuable than 3 gens at 50%.
But yeah, I do want nerfs for some of that.
Good. Let's get that changed, then we can have this discussion. Because you can't touch regression without doing that.
How much weaker tunneling is is very debateable
Outside of the killers that can abuse certain mechanics to cheese BT...is it?
OTR is a pretty bad counter to it when many killers, esp. a lot of new ones, are good at getting back to the hook quickly and hitting you during the BT endurance
OTR is incredible.
A killer coming back to try and tunnel - you have allies for a bodyblock or if need be a trade, you also have OTR and other tools at your disposal.
But - here's the other thing. Your 'win state' isn't 'I escape'.
Your win state is 'we got more than 2 people out, even if one of us sacrificed ourselves'.
You used to have to deal with decisive strike and dead hard both providing extra chances if you tunnel them, but now decisive is quite bad.
Decisive is so bad that I see it on...I think every single comp squad I've seen recently.
Decisive is amazing.
And at the same time, tunneling is much more encouraged than before. BBQ and the pip system used to do a lot to encourage you to spread the pressure, especially BBQ
And yet I can't think of the last time I saw a 'fix tunneling' thread even mention BBQ in the OP.
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The gen kick meta is the easiest killer has ever been, its genuinely mind numbingly easy most of the time
PTS only saves 5 seconds if the survivors were on the gen for the entire duration, uninterrupted.
How many Hyperfocus Stakeout built to last commodious have you really seen? Ive seen maybe one or two, and I know most people who run the perk dont even get full value due to rng and simply missing the skillcheck.
Killer is genuinely easy right now for the most part. Some maps are bad, but there are a lot of good killer maps too. Also, youre complaining about fogwise? Next youll say Resilience is too strong because it lets you o gens 10% faster when injured
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For Killer to be scary a complete re-work would be needed.
Treat it as a hack and slash. First hit the survivor is injured, 2nd hit the survivor is down and can be killed.
killer isn’t scary because survivor gets so many chances before they’re actually dead..
4 x survivors: 24 hits and 12 hooks for you to 4k
Then add in 2nd chance perks, Boom healing, gen defending etc.. So you could be looking more at 30 - 40 hits, add in few more hooks if you take into account flashlight blinds etc.
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Sigh.
Okay, let's go step by step.
- Define 'easy'. Compared to the game a few years ago, sure. Now watch the community cup with killers running the most evil perks in the game, slugging, camping, tunneling, on a killer sided map, against survivors with extreme restrictions on their perks and items - and still struggling to get a single kill. Easy?
- PTS...yes, 5 seconds on top of how many seconds shaved off working 2 on a gen? Now combine that with other perks.
- In my own games? Like...4? But here's the thing. A. There's always the potential of it, B. It's stupidly powerful and C. I've seen 1 'holding a 3gen from the start with Eruption' game in over a thousand, and the forums are still wall to wall with threads on it - so clearly HSFP is fair game.
- Name 5 good killer maps that aren't DDS or Midwich. And when I say 'good', I'm talking the equivalent of Garden of Joy (which can have an infinite). Because I can name you 5 good survivor maps that aren't GoJ.
- Fogwise...okay. Remember OoO? Fogwise is stronger in a 4man.
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two people on a gen is genuinely less efficient than splitting up and will always be in 99% of cases, the ones that are good times to do it is typically in a 3gen or at the last gen scenario
Yes the meta is easier, community cup is not a good display of skill, theres no barrier of entry lol, you have genuine comp players who play for a job and a group of 5 pals
Anecdotal strawman, nice.
Woah, Maps arent balanced and with rng, which is a core component of the game, never will truly be, who guessed.
lol.
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