SoloQ is auto lose vs a decent Nurse/Blight
These 2 killers are miles above any other and can't be beaten by SoloQ even a good SWF would have trouble, the only way to escape comes down to the hatch.
Honestly dbd is the only multiplayer game where a single player allowed to roflstomp and pubstomp 99% of their games
Bonus, there is no MMR, capped at low level, so its almost guaranteed that survivor team will have average or bad player, which is autolose vs Blight, Nurse if piloted by a decent player.
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So what? A good.swf roflsromps half the casual killer population.
This game isn't fit for experienced people to play with the masses, it's a matchmaking problem.
Good nurses and blight shouldn't even be matched with anything else than full 4 people swf with experience.
Pro player in league of legends that play in their free tike either Smurf of they are matched with their colleagues on a regular basis. It's only DBD where the top for the sake of short queue times gets matched with the middle or even the bottom of the skill ladder.
It's only partial a problem with the characters. Of course ideally every killer character should have similar potential but they don't.
And just like many people ask for solo to be buffed instead of swf being nerfed so should first low potential killer be buffed, not to nurse level but something healthy, together with further improvement of soloQ and only after that can everything else be balanced.
But me and others have made these arguments for years now and only recently have we seen any movement in that direction with the solo HUD update.
In short: Trimming the top on one side will only create an imbalance and the big issue at the moment isnt the top but still matchmaking.
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Okay...?
Here's the truth. And it's one of those unfortunate truths that people don't like to hear.
This game has to be balanced around SWF versus Killer, not Solo versus Killer.
When I play survivor, I can choose to join an SWF or play solo.
When I play killer, I have no choice in the matter - and the next game I play could be against a 20,000 hour comp squad. So I need to go into every match anticipating that possibility.
Balancing the game entirely around solos would be massively unfair to killers.
Now...that all said, I'm escaping maybe 50% of the time as a solo survivor. That number cannot and *should not* be any higher.
As to the rest:
Honestly dbd is the only multiplayer game where a single player allowed to roflstomp and pubstomp 99% of their games
Hahaha what?
Basically any team based PvP game will allow pubstomping. Heroes of the Storm? League of Legends? Go queue up as an organized group and you'll roll.
Now, I'd love to see SWF get some sort of MMR adjustment (as a lot of other games do) so they'd face stronger opponents, but BHVR have said that they won't do that.
99% is a silly hyperbole, not even going to engage with that.
Bonus, there is no MMR, capped at low level, so its almost guaranteed that survivor team will have average or bad player,
...Huh?
No seriously, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
There is MMR.
The MMR 'cap' could probably stand to go up a bit, but it's definitely not low.
Survivor teams will have a mix of players, generally grouped together to form an average MMR close to that of the killer. If the killer is low MMR then yes, you will likely have low MMR survivors.
which is autolose vs Blight, Nurse if piloted by a decent player.
Define 'decent'.
I've seen Otz lose to solos on Nurse and Blight (you can go watch his streak videos). And if you're going to turn around and say 'well Otz isn't a decent player' then...yeah, that would be very silly, wouldn't it?
Hell, I've beaten Nurse and Blight as a solo queue survivor.
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SupaAlf won 500 games out of 500 games with Nurse, so 99% is maybe even understatement.
I don't know any multiplayer game where 1 player allowed to have 90+% winrate.
4 vs 4 doesn't count since both sides need to have 4 good players to win, while in dbd one side only needs one player to win almost every game.
I mean I understand that you want to win every game as killer, while eating snacks and going for 12 hooks, but its still unbalanced.
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SupaAlf won 500 games out of 500 games with Nurse, so 99% is maybe even understatement.
Yes, and? He does nothing but play Nurse.
If you want to see what this looks like from the other side, go watch Ayrun and his escape streaks.
These players are an anomaly.
I don't know any multiplayer game where 1 player allowed to have 90+% winrate.
Literally any game with loose matchmaking will have this problem.
4 vs 4 doesn't count since both sides need to have 4 good players to win, while in dbd one side only needs one player to win almost every game.
Then...what exactly counts?
This is going to turn into No True Scotsmen, I'm sure - because DbD is sort of it's own thing.
I mean I understand that you want to win every game as killer, while eating snacks and going for 12 hooks, but its still unbalanced.
You've...never actually seen anything I've ever posted, have you?
Also, that chip on your shoulder is blocking out the sun.
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These 2 killers are miles above any other and can't be beaten by SoloQ even a good SWF would have trouble, the only way to escape comes down to the hatch.Isn't saying this counterintuitive to the point of your post? Your basically saying every killer regardless of skill should be rolled over by good 4-mans.
Bonus, there is no MMR, capped at low level, so its almost guaranteed that survivor team will have average or bad player, which is autolose vs Blight, Nurse if piloted by a decent player.LMAO guy actually thinks nurse is harder than blight in any capacity. The only hard thing about nurse is reading survivors with no LoS and guess what? Blight has to do that same thing! Any counterplay to nurse can apply to blight, anything hard about nurse is even or harder on blight. Nurse is pure muscle memory and if competent will take you hours to start rolling with her, blight has an infinite skill ceiling and his skill floor is essentially just mobility. If you are getting rolled by a noobie blight that's not running c33+adrenaline vial you are not good regardless of swf or solo. The only thing nurse has over blight is her skill floor being higher, that's it.
Also you severely underestimate the potential of 4 good solos especially now after the hud update. Bar a CoB+eruption combo with a favorable 3 gen you will never see survivors lose to a killer that they are better than. But CoB and eruption combo is more brain dead than old DH+IW which is really saying something. It's just that players on both sides are terrible at this game and finding good players is rare.
I doubt you are are good, I doubt you have seen a good blight. Both a good blight and good survivor in this game has the same chance of hitting an heirloom out of a free lootbox in apex.
People overestimate the difficulty of this game, people overestimate the difficulty of their role, people are too biased in this game, people overestimate how good they are at this game. Half the people on this forum are beyond biased to a disgusting degree.
SWFS not going to get nerfed that would be dumb, if no killer can contest swf a chunk of killers will quit, if that happens survivors will quit due to queue times. Remember what happened last time killers stopped playing?
Now with all of that out of the way. C33 and alch ring need nerfs, that's it. Nurse needs a full rework(not bhvr rework XD) because her power is beyond outdated.
You know I agree with what you said almost fully but plugging otz here when blight is involved isn't a good idea. He isn't very adept at the killer, is biased towards him do to his popularity and genuinely thinks dpi affects him in any way still. He's a great guy, is a really good killer with insane macro but watching him play blight disturbs me(partly because of a lack of shadowborne though). You know now that I think about it, I'm just proving your point. Otz is probably better than at least 90% of Blight players at blight and still loses.
Isn't that the biggest upside to killer though? The fact that you can solely rely on yourself with no coordination?
But anyway, based on your reply to starlost who is probably one of the most experienced and unbiased players on this forum, you are going to cherry pick one thing I said misconstrued it and then call me an exploit abuser.
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Its funny when the killer's own skill is ignored in such discussions. "Good nurses and blights roflstomp bad survivor players" would be more accurate to say.
Now just for fun applying current survivor logic and trends to the killer side these two arent in need to be tweaed but their power level is what the other killers should be buffed to. Bonus point: by survivor-swf-gap-logic we should need to buff nurse because I'm a bad nurse and cant perform like supaalf, so she needs to be buffed so i can perform like him.
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There is a big difference between a very good player with the strongest perks and addons and someone without all that
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They can't neither balanced around 4 man swf. Blight and nurse are balanced to beat absolutly the best swf in the world but that means good player with them destroys everyone else even most 4 man swf. Supalf would not win 500 wins a game with nurse if the character is balanced versus everyone. So no they can't do that best to balance something in middle ground between solos and swf. Most swf are 2 or 3 man too so usually there is always one solo player. I do question your 50% escape rate in soloQ. Are you very good looper?
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FINALLY someone who dont say "vs. THE KILLERS", but vs. some of them.
Thats what everyone needs to understand. These two Killers are a problem for all the other killers.
These two need nerfs, so that other killers can receive some buffs to catch up.
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Don't even respond to that guy. He is one of the biggest killer-bias posters on the forums. Everything he posts is only supportive of killers.
It is too bad there are so many posters like that who are only interested in strenghtening their preferred side rather than a fun, balanced game for both sides.
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Exactly.
The rest of killer roster are underpowered, especially the m1 killers( sorry but I think Freddy is really weak) , but BHVR can't buff them as long as Blight and Nurse are around, because any buff would make those 2 even stronger.
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You have to be joking, are you some kind of us vs them person who genuinely thinks that people have to take sides in this game. Like dude you come up with the worst takes constantly that only benefit one side Starlost at least has reasonable takes for both sides unlike you. If the game was balanced by you I wouldn't even bother touching it again so get out of here with your "don't bother posting" because if anyone shouldn't be reasoned with it would be you.
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U dont have to say sorry. For me, Freddy is bottom 3 in the Tierlist. He loses his main ability (Dream Projection) with every gen which gets completed (from 7 to 0 Teleport-Options) and his snares are a joke. Pallets? Just forget them, useless fun-factor, nothing else. Addons are useless, too (besides two of them).
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Define decent... cause your examples are players that are above decent
Pig can ruin Solo Queue... but I don't see that being said
SWF can ruin Pig... but I don't see that being said
I would call myself decent at Pig... I still make mistakes just like anyone else... same can be said for those Solo Queue players and Nurse and Blight players
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But not because killers are "OP" besides Nurse and Blight, but thanks to useless teammates. These are the main reason why soloq is much weaker than a SWF with Discord.
The HUD is nice, but bad players will still be bad players.
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Might I ask how buffing the abilities of other Killers would affect Nurse or Blight? With actually mutually exclusive abilities?
Unlike survivor and swf, you can actually buff Pig and it wont affect the other 29 killers at all.
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This, I'm not gonna waste airspace engaging with him but I don't mind hopping in to let you know I see the exact same pattern with his behavior that you do.
Months later, even. At least he's consistently awful with his takes.
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Except, you know, all the stuff I post in regards to survivor.
Remember: every time you lie about someone else, you get a half-inch shorter.
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its bhvr´s great Matchmaking, meanwhile a 4 men swf that has only well player destroying 99% killers, that is what bhvr want because actions say more than thousand words... "mmr" issues
MMR is a Skill based MM, you match with ppl that are in your same level, dbd has everything but no an mmr xDD
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Yeah, I think that MMR should be way more stricter, only match sweaty players with other sweaty player.
What ends happening that SupaAlf or Lilith going against solo teams, while tournament level 4 SWF is going against mid level killers.
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They have to. Because as long as 4man SWFs are a possibility, that has to be the balance goal. Otherwise these games are an auto-loss for killers.
Would you consider that fair?
People love to refer to Alf, without realizing that he's not an example of anything aside from 'the matchmaking system breaks down at a certain level of skill'. It's a very different discussion. If you want to see what this looks like from the other end, go watch Ayrun's solo escape streaks. Does that mean that solo queue is completely fine?
Hmm. Once we get the baby settled in, I can record some games. I'm...an okay looper, but I tend to play quite tactically. As in - if the team is getting creamed, I'm going to start playing for hatch.
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Oh really Ayrun has a recent SOLO survivor escape streak?
Really surprising if its true, I thought that impossible to escape as solo, because the killer can just slug for 4K, and as a survivor you have 0 agency over that
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Hide and Seek. In my soloq, I escape a lot thanks to Ego-Builds like Clairvoyance, Wake Up, Sole Survivor and Deadhard.
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well, my only gripe about nurse/blight in solo queue is how frequently survivors just disconnect immediately. like they wont' even get downed, just see that you're one of those killers and dc.
honestly, i really think these survivors should be horribly punished. like banned from the game for 10 years but behavior is afraid to ban them for even a day.
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Solo Q is autolose against any decent killer*
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Yeah I think that either option could be good:
A, Fix Nurse and Blight
B, Ban any DCing survivor for very long time, if repeated permanently
Because DCs arent counted into killrate, I do suspect that Blight, and Nurse killrate way higher than officially
Also yeah I will play lot more selfishly now thats for sure.
And again I wanted to be fair, but agree a certain extent that SoloQ is very tough even vs a decent killer but Nurse,Blight just makes it impossible
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Yes, he does. Sadly he didn't save VODs, but he does them fairly often so just keep an eye on his Twitch.
I think he got up to around 40 escapes in a row at one point.
Some games he hides.
Some games he literally loops the killer for 5 gens.
And yet I've seen Otz lose to solos.
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I see thats very good, I will watch him surely in the future, nice to know that even solo survivor can be viable.
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I would consider myself a somewhat decent Nurse and I still lose to solo players. Saying that players with such absurdly high win rates are only 'decent' is an insult to all the survivor mains out there because that would make them bad at the game.
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This is very true. The devs want to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to matchmaking. They really needed to combat the bizarre culture around DbD early on.
Players think a 50% win rate on killer is a balance issue, not a sign of good matchmaking. But they've let the "power role should be powerful because the player clicked the power role" mindset linger, and people freaked out when SBMM first came out with good matchmaking.
Then they dialed SBMM back a ton, which really just punishes anything less than a 4 stack because there's almost always a super weak link on the team now. Factor in the soft cap, and we're almost back to where we started before SBMM. I shouldn't be winning as many games as I am on killer. I shouldn't be getting instant queues to proceed to 4k at 3-4 gens. It's BS. I lose games when I'm matched appropriately. Sometimes I get dumpstered if I get survivors who also have my experience level. It shouldn't be a once in a blue moon occasion.
There has to be a better way here. Solo queue is miserable because weak links are introduced to ease the killer experience. A good 4 man is fine, but you're either sweating your tail off or 3 hooking a poor killer way out of their depth. Killer is all the over the place with zero consistency. 4 games will be the easiest games of your life, and you're severely punished for not bringing a good build because the game is randomly going to match you well once every 5 games, and that loss will feel completely contrived otherwise.
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Yeah this power role really cant stand in a multiplayer game, luckily for the devs, they can afford this mistreatment towards survivor players, however I think they should be wise to avoid crossing the line. I mean most of the games already miserable because the MMR is disabled, and only enabled rarely, and those games are the most fun.
I mean there is no agency as solo player, when you get total newbies or bad survivors as teammates you lost the game, just because the power role doesnt want to try hard always. This is really weird balancing decision.
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Basically every single one of my "takes" have been, or are being implemented into the game and are praised by the player base as great balance moves. I'd like you to specifically mention one of my "takes" because from your first sentence asking if I am an us vs them player I seriosuly doubt you know at all what you are talking about as basically all of my posts are advocating for balance on both sides. Get out of here with this.
Still upset you were so out of touch in regards to Nurse, I see. Just because you were wrong doesn't mean you need to get upset about it. It's a really bad look.
Funny how none of you can even mention one of my terrible takes. Yet I can for yours. You actually thought Nurse was in a fine state before her nerf. Literally one of the worst takes in all of DBD..
Sigh..sure..
Whatever you say.
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A bit of it has to do with region locking both roles for matchmaking too. There's a limited player pool when you do that, especially for outliers like top MMR. Killers should stay on their closest server, but survivor is playable if you're NA East on NA West, for example. Letting survivors float to the next closest server would allow matchmaking to be a bit closer and not make solo queue such an awful experience. But nothing is more aggravating in DbD than having a quick queue just to see two teammates running into walls and being slugged within 30 seconds when I have 4100 hrs. Complete waste of time
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Well, saying that they softened matchmaking to abide killers with easier games is a bit disingenuous.
They did it because player on the top end of the MMR had hour long queue times and the distribution overall coupled with the size of the playerbase at each given level led to significantly increased queue times.
Of course their approach brought it back to red-rank-skill-mush/rainbow-ranks level.
About kill rates (not win rate, wins aren't really defined) being aimed at 50% is fine if it's the average. 4 kills and 4 escapes SHOULD be the rare exception and neither the norm.
The norm should be that all 5 gens get finished in every trial but also 1-3 always die. That would be a balanced state.
But neither killer will be satisfied with not getting a full set dead nor swf with having to abandoned one of their buddies. There will always be complains.
And the biggest hurdle for balance still remains in the fact that the devs have to keep three groups in consideration: solo, killer and swf (no matter the size)
But balancing a triangle on a single point is way harder than a two sided scale ⚖️. Not to mention the asymmetrical character. It's no wonder DBD is the only surviving game in this genre.
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What surprising for me, that there is almost always lack of the killers in recent days, 100% bloodpoints offered.
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Why is that surprising? I would assume that a whole lot of people return when the survivor hid update went live, increasing survivor numbers and creating a need for more killer players. Plus the people that switched from killer to survivor to test the gameplay improvement.
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Top players in other games win most of the time because they are better than everyone else. This shouldn’t be an exception.
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'Whatever you say'...mate.
Just own up to it.
'I was wrong and insulted you for literally no reason, and made a fool of myself. I'm sorry'.
Is that really so hard for folks these days to...just apologize?
I find that it gets a little nutty during events, because of all the returning folks, but then it settles in.
It's not perfect, and lobby dodges or whatever causes SBMM to poop the sheets occasionally...yeah, that needs to be fixed already, but by and large my matches are way fairer.
There is one thing that seems to be a thing now - 1 really strong survivor and 3 'okay' survivors against me, which is generally a 4k. That's weird.
On the other hand, killer incentive seems to be more and more common.
Really have no idea what's going on.
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LOL..what?? THAT'S how you took that response? Wow.
The only reason I responded to your posts in the first place was because of your amazing (lol) take on Eruption. Since then you've walked it back and now are just scared the devs will destroy the perk and leave nothing left (funny how so many players who never even used Eruption in the first place are so worried about that all of a sudden).
Maybe I am missing all your posts that are advocating for a fair and equal game for both sides, but every thread I read that you post in is definitely not that.
You may see yourself as a poster who is interested in a fair and balanced game for both sides, but that is not how it comes off, at all.
My brief response before was because I've realized you won't see sense. No point responding anymore.
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In solo I'd rather take a fast loss due to a blight or nurse than a slow painful loss due to pinhead or artist
By the way, the problem with soloqueue is the horrendous MMR system they introduced. The "now i can actually see when people don't do gens" meme is not that much of a meme afterall, it took me just a couple of games to visually realize how terribly inefficient some players are (I say "visually realize" because I mean, we all knew already they are like this). When you're on a swf, it's not like you magically become unbeatable, you just remove the randomness element of the matchmaking and choose who to play with.
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Mate, you accused me of...I'm not even sure, honestly. Something something massive liar wants a 100% kill rate I'm guessing.
Do yourself a favor and...actually look at some of the stuff I've talked about before.
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Why do you expect to win as a solo vs. a good blight or nurse, the 2 best killers in the game? Shouldn't this be rare to win against?
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