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Killer has become an unplayable role. Nonstop losses and no relief in sight.
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The HUD changes aren’t going anywhere, and if anything they should even add a couple more things to it. This was what needed to happen to improve the solo queue experience and narrow the gap between solo and SWF.
That said, the impact it has on the overall game’s balance is a very legitimate concern, but this will make the game easier to balance going forward. If solo and SWF have a 15% escape rate difference from each other (according to BHVR in the past), then it’s more difficult to balance anything because what might be balanced for/against solos would be too strong/weak for/against SWF or vice versa. If survivors consistently having more information causes them to survive more often (which, in theory, it should) to the point where killers are too weak, then they can always take action in that regard. But reverting the HUD changes is not and never will be the correct solution.
Keep in mind that these changes aren’t giving a 4-stack SWF anything that they didn’t already have before. Buffing SWF was never the intent of this feature.
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So soloQ should just be as miserable as before because YOU have a streak of bad games? Blaming your losses on the HUD buffs is ridiculous. Even SWF were not unbeatable. If you have trouble winning maybe try to ask you what kind of misplays you did. Where could you have done a better choice. And why did the survivors got atleast 2 man out. it's insane how this community aimpy can't see when it's their fault, both killers and survivors. Weirdly enough I haven't have the feeling that survivors are OP now. There are only a few instances where I got genrushed but I usually still ended up at a 2k even without the sweaty tactics which are camping and tunneling.
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You didn't even once get 3 kills and 4 out of 18 games you drew, it seems to me that you are the problem here.
Are you sure you know how to play killer?
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There are no essential perks for survivors.
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"Your experience suggests that you are experiencing balanced kill rates now and overly favorable trials before"
I would agree with that for the most part, which is why i think it was a necessary addition to the survivors toolkit. And just to clarify im not at all saying i Don't like it or i think its unfair etc.
I regularly find myself lobbied against 10-15k hour teams so it hasn't brought anything new to the experience, but its made each game feel tougher and definitely more like swf on average.
I just recognise where OP is coming from - that it is a lot tougher to secure a 3-4k now given the efficiency increase in survivor teams. i run either 1 or 0 slowdown perks and being a chase enjoyer, have noticed that the time to chase on some maps impacts the game a lot more now from my pov, and survs make less macro mistakes to capitalise on. I don't notice it so much with blight, but with other killers its noticeable. I would just enjoy a meta and map shake up i guess is all I'm saying with many many words.
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Is that so....
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Off to a good start tonight
Plague Badham only Plaything for slowdown - 1k
Billy Rancid Abbatoir - Pop for slowdown- 0k
Nemesis - shattered square - deadlock no way out corrupt - 0k
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Killer players when soloq isn't easy 4k
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The problem I have with some of these posts is this sort of doom scrolling. Like prophesying the game will die because of changes they add to either side. You guys do this all the time in every single patch. Remember when survivors were complaining about Hubris and killers were constantly talking about Potential Energy? What happened to those perks exactly? Oh wait they faded into obscurity. Remember the killer basekit changes that were met with SuRvIvOr is going to die out? Wonder what happened to that. Remember the perk changes alongside basekit changes? How the game is going to completely die because the devs do the one thing you guys complained for years about and they finally are making changes? Oh wait the game got kill rates up as well as more killers being used in "High MMR". And now here we are at doom scroll post number 5,227 about how the game is going to die out cause now solo players got a buff they've been wanting for years that in no way actually buffs swf in any margin.
My point in case people are too lazy to read all this is you guys constantly make doom scroll posts about how the game is going to die cause 1 side for a meaningful buff/appropriate nerf and every single time the game continues to keep getting play. How about we finally stop mindlessly trying to prophecy how unplayable a role is because of personal anecdotes and simply adapt. After all, telling one side to adapt to changes isn't exactly an uncommon topic so let's practice what we preach.
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I don't mean this as a brag but my first game of the night I 3k'd as plague with her brown meme add-on and bamboozle, brutal, enduring, hubris so basically a complete meme build. Not saying killer isn't challenging but if y'all really struggling that bad where you're going an entire session with no 3k or 4k it's probably user error.
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Seems like every post I see like this is from someone who has a very high hour count. This is an mmr issue, experienced killers (especially with your hours) will have sky high mmr.
Survs tend to do better at high mmr. You have a team of 4 players who will often each know the maps, have comms, be consumate genrushers and chase runners. And will overall make it a nightmare for even the best of killers.
Low/mid mmr though is an absolute ######### fest for survivors. Killers steamroll into 4ks very easily.
What we need is a casual/ranked split for playlists. I like playing killer and I'm pretty good at it, but I'd like to just meme around with weak killers sometimes.
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What we need is a casual/ranked split for playlists. I like playing killer and I'm pretty good at it, but I'd like to just meme around with weak killers sometimes.
This will achieve nothing. You'll have maximum sweaty blights and nurses file into the unranked mode just because they know they'll have opponents that want to take it easier, and bully squads hell-bent on making demogorgons cry. It's just a target painted on the casual playerbase.
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Also splitting playerbase is terrible idea, I think there are huge lack of survivor players already.
On EU outside of events, and nights takes 5-10 seconds to find a survivor game, and almost always +100% bloodpoints incentives for the role.
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My solo queue survival rate hasn't changed. I keep stats of my games too.
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I'm sorry but if you don't bring any gen regression/slowdown perks, you do not tunnel anyone how do you expect to win? Yeah sure you can do vs incompetent people but that's no HUD issue or else, if your own issue because you're not using the correct perks.
Now i do understand why you don't want to use them, because they are boring as hell and that's the problem of the game, as long BHVR won't change perks/meta and rework several killers, rework maps and put a stop on hyper fast gen repair/third health state, there's nothing else you can do as a killer. So bring eruption ( for a coulpe of weeks until it will be nerfed into the oblivion) nowhere to hide ( next one to be nerfed i'm sure ), call of brine ( again until it will disappear ) and tunnel/camp heard as long the game begin.
BHVR want us to play like that so, let's play like that. And yeah you can easly do 3-4k
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Come face the randoms I've been getting in my survivor games lately. You'll be getting 3k's and 4k's all day.
But honestly yeah killer has always been the hardest role. Your builds may even been good, sometimes you can lose a match because of a single mistake you make. And that's all it can take when you're killer. Just one mistake to cost you the game.
I had it happen in one of my Mikey games last night. I got this Jane down who was on death hook. I knew the Claudette had a flashlight, but I forgot to face the wall when I picked Jane up. Sure enough Claudette popped out and saved her. I needed Jane dead to turn the game in my favor. Because of my one silly mistake I ended up with a 2k when I could have easily gotten a 3 or 4k had I finished off Jane then and there.
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This, unfortunately. If there's one universal thing about DBD players, it's that they'll take the easiest opportunities to win every time. Not to mention the ones that play purely to bully. That probably goes for most pvp games tbh. If there is a mode for people to chill, it will be infiltrated immediately by sweaty killers or teams looking for easy targets. I'm a chill player but I doubt the game will ever be able to cater to players like me. I take the good with the bad.
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I already replied to the perk question on page 2 of the thread, just scroll a little bit up:
Regarding the perks used by the survivors, it was all meta as I said before. A ton of Dead Hard users coupled with Adrenaline, also a couple of Sprint Burst users who 99%'d their perk just to abuse it midway through the chase to waste even more of my time. My hookcount remained low as you can imagine, infact most of my hooks were from camping during endgame and trading with survivors.
As I said before, that argument does not fly. Matchmaking/MMR is supposed to adapt to these things, yet it doesn't. The game is fundamentally broken in every way. And I'm pretty sure I know how to play killer after 2600 hours. How about you try to put yourself into my shoes?
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I'm a big fan of the idea to have unranked/ranked mode will improve a lot the game and the community as well.
Yeah sometime you could find one of those ultra pro in the unranked section but they will be a minority, people like that will live in the ranked mode only where people are competitive and want a serious game.
With something like that there it will be more balancing, a lot less complain about anything and peole will usually are put against someone like them, competitive vs competitive and casual vs casual
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If the Hud changes really made killers unable to win, wouldn't it make more sense to buff the killers now?
Reverting the hud changes means going back to solo being normal matches but becoming powerless against swf. Now solo and swf are atleast at a (somewhat kinda) even level to balance towards
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Then I suppose it might be on you, unfortunately
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Easy to assume the worst, certainly that will happen a bit. But there will be more games where players are just chilling out. If casual doesn't contribute to ranked rewards then you'll see less sweaty players. You'll always get the odd troll who just wants to make other people's games miserable.
Genuinely good players are going to get real bored real quick on decimating casual teams and getting no reward or progression for it. Ranked will give them a half way decent game.
It'd certainly be an improvement of the current melting pot playlist. As it stands, good killer players end up at a point where they have to run the sweatiest builds going to stand a chance, and have no option but to sweat constantly or get 0ks because they are locked in one matchmaking bracket and short of spending hours throwing games there is no way to change that.
I've even suggested having the mm in a casual playlist be based on upvotes which trolling killers and surv teams will not get.
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bruh bro, even i had a streak of 15 win and i'm the main killer
if the main killer can easily escape 15 times in a row, then so can you if you gain experience
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thana is pretty useless now though. maybe one day the perk gets a little bit of love back. I remember when thana was my favourite gen defence perk when i first got dbd. oh how things change....
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As I said though, this is no recent development for me. I managed to do ok before. Yeah, I lost matches because of my lack of gen regression and tunneling would had helped as well but I didn't do too bad. Hyper aggression worked for me.
A few months before 6.1.0 (back when DH was at its prime) I even did a win streak with Doctor using Zanshins, BBQ, STBFL and Brutal Strength and got to 37 wins without addons. Nothing crazy but I'm still happy about it. This was not an issue with MMR either since I played him for over a year at that point and didn't do too bad. The survivors I faced (mostly) were not incompetent. You had the occasional David that relied solely on DH and would go down in seconds but other than that these guys were great. In the end I lost my streak against Hens' squad with (I believe) 2 hooks because they simply outdid me in chase, while also working efficiently on gens.
Nowadays it feels like the game simply outpaces me, meaning that no matter how well I do in chases I'm still too slow to keep up. I mostly play Hillbilly, so I get into chases right off the bat and thanks to the information I get from Lethal Pursuer I can chase and zone the survivor I am onto into the survivors that work on gens. However, this isn't enough anymore. Somehow they still manage to finish gens as if I wasn't there. I think this has something to do with the increased effiency (HUD) because this is the only thing that changed recently. Items have been a problem for several months now.
My MMR has plummeted since the patch, no doubt about that. I now encounter survivors that make big mistakes in chase, fall for mind games on super safe structures and sometimes don't even adept to what killer I'm playing. The problem here is that I can't really learn from these guys and the matches don't feel challenging even when I lose. They can't do anything but delay me by dropping every pallet immediately, hoping their team mates will finish the gens faster than I can burn through their resources. I hate to say it but if I have to choose between the boring meta and this waste of time, the boring meta it is.
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Eruption is not a requirement to win at all. I have 5.5K hours and play both sides and have never used it on killer after seeing it was bullshit after using it once then getting hit by it when I played survivor. I have gotten 4Ks with Jolt and Pain Res alone. I have gotten 4Ks with totem Plague. You do not need an overtuned perk to win
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And for sure,as always when I see that kind of post, you never lost a single match and for sure you have 4k every single time, right? That displays what your MMR is. I can have 50 killstreak even with Hag after I low my MMR enough. Does it mean that Hag is overpowered and need nerf? No.
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I'm not who you replied to, but I have a similar experience to who you are replying to. But I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here. Are you implying killers should 4k every match? You can win the majority of your matches and lose some, and it doesn't really change what they said.
It also doesn't "display your mmr", because mmr is completely hidden in the first place. You might be at the cap, you might be high mmr (but improbable), or the system just expanded to high mmr survivors..
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Mabye like.. stop caring about "losing"? Lol
I have fun with just rancor, it doesn't matter if all the gens get done lol
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I just 4k'ed 5 games as Killer and logged off.
Post your gameplay mate.
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No I don't 4K every match but I do sometimes 4K and I get at least a 2K most of the time. If I keep winning, doesn't that mean my MMR is rising and therefore can't be low. Because apparently I cant be getting constant wins if I'm not low MMR but getting constant wins means I can't be low MMR
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"Are you implying killers should 4k every match?"
- Can you tell me, please, what sentence in my post made you think that I´m implying that?
"You can win the majority of your matches and lose some, and it doesn't really change what they said."
- Because most of the time its people who are at low MMR. Me as a survivor I have escape ratio much higher than before in SoloQ and even before HUD changes it was easy. Survivors will lose only if they are bad at looping so they can be tunneled out of the game early and even then its start to be challange. Not impossible. Challange. In 3 people. At this video you can see how it looks like when survivors know what they´re doing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lONHBIhvn9o This is my experience with Survivor plays most of the time. We lose if we are ineffective on gens. And on my level its rare to see players messing around and not doing gens while one of us is being chased. We played against 4000 hours Legacy Billy. He was probably best Billy I´ve ever seen. Even I cannot do that consistent curves like him. He probably never did single curve wrong. He was amazing. Yet he was able to get only ONE kill. And he was playing very good. TOP Billy full Legacy skinn and his skill was tremendous. Yet still not enough against us. With all info we had we could win easily. And his pressuring and gen patrolling was really really good. Still not enough. All I needed is Prove Thyself, Bond, Windows of Oportunity and Kindred. For SoloQ its almost like cheating. :D Auras of killers, other´s survivors and more. With new HUD? Its really chill to play survivor. I can ven play music while playing Survivor.
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I'll say this. I'm still doing pretty decent with my killers, though the there is no doubt at all that the HUD additions have made solo survivor cake as I've escaped almost every single time since they were implemented, usually will all 3 other teammates as well.
On the killer side, it's basically meant that some killers are utterly pointless to play with... Legion being one of them... you're just gonna get genrushed to hell with that guy. I had to stop using him. I used to love the Trapper because he's brutal as hell, but holy crap it's a challenge just to kill 2 survivors now. The killers I'm consistently getting 4 kills with I'm not gonna share because I don't want the screaming for a nerf to begin. Hint: it's not the Nurse, Mastermind, etc.
But, yeah, the HUD changed the game and has made most killers obsolete if your goal is to hook more than 2 survivors per trial. Thank goodness the killer I still rock with is a killer that was always one of my favourites... RIP Trapper.
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I'm having trouble with the 'rank 1' claim. And I think that the 20 escape streak is an exaggeration, but speaking for myself, since the HUD changes came in, I fear nothing and have escaped at least 4 out of 5 times... mostly with all other survivors too. So, there's no denying that the HUD really took the challenge out of the game from the survivor perspective.
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you never lost a single match and for sure you have 4k every single time, right?
This one right here - I have a hard time understanding why that is relevant to the person you replied to. I just wanted to clarify that is what you were referring to.
Survivors lose for multiple reasons, and so do killers. Looping is only one aspect, and it heavily depends on your teammates too. If a killer is being led on a 2-5 gen chase, that tells me immediately that either their mmr is really boosted, they are bad at chase or they massively lack game sense. Knowing when to drop a chase as a killer is so important when playing and I feel like a lot of people feel like they have to commit to it when in reality they are just throwing. That being said, if I'm being chased and no one is touching gens, this chase meant nothing.
Again, you literally can't know if you are high mmr or not on survivor OR killer - I get bad teammates at night but during the day I get good ones. The only time it's easy to tell is if you have legitimately brand new players on the team, because they play.. a certain way.
Let me be blunt, myself, and many other billy mains play for curves because that's what's fun and we don't care if we win or lose. This really isn't the argument you think it is. I still win most of my matches - to be honest people who know how to counter a double engravings billy are so far apart it's almost not even fun to play him anymore. But do you not think he could have gotten that 4k if he tried harder? He was probably just focused on chilling and landing curves and not caring about kills.
I love when people say the music thing too, because I barely focus on game audio when I play as killer, I listen to music for the most part - I track with my eyes 95% of the time barring looking for hatch. I still win the majority of my games.
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Looks like someone hasn’t played SoloQ much where it is normal to lose 10 games in a row. There was even a time where I didn’t escape once in 3 hours but that is apparently balanced. It’s only unbalanced when killers go on a loss streak
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I miss these days where I have to think while playing. Not being handholded all the time. Where memory and knowladge were the power of survivor. I miss that amazing feeling this game had. That you didn´t know where killer is. You had to use your senses to defeat killer which is powered by Entity against survivors placed at the Entity´s playground. Tha mesterious atmosphere in this game went gone long time ago. Since its no challange to play survivor. There is no fear from being spotted. There is no fear of survivors to look around and made decisions based on knowladge and more. I miss these days. Now I´m looking for challange on survivor side, yet nothing is comming in the future. It will be even more boring game than ever on survivor side. I´m even using meme builds very often. Or playing with different survivors just with their personal perks. And nothing changed. That horor esence is missing so much. Now I can laugh when I meet Freddy in that super rare case. Its free win. Its amazing how he is lost at every map.
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What Im really trying to say is I don't believe you. Are we clear now?
Less hyperbole is key to making a key argument.
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This one right here - I have a hard time understanding why that is relevant to the person you replied to. I just wanted to clarify that is what you were referring to. It was reffering to, that people what are playing that most of the time are very low MMR. Which is most of the time displayed by their knowladges about the game. Like there was one guy who was stillargumenting that Eruption is strong, but when he described that perk you could see that he was describing Scourge Pain Resonance. And on top of that they claim about them selfs that they are highest MMR they never lost as killer and killer is easy etc etc. They have 4k every time they play killers and they never escaped as a survivor. Yet most of the time its not true at all.
And YES. You can easily guess if your MMR is low or mid or high. Watch top streamers and their top level gameplay and compare it what you see in your games. What Tru3 has in his games as Survivors I have in my Survivor games as teammates. Did you watched that video? You totally ignored that video, am I right? Thats how average high level survivor gameplay looks like when you get there. And there is killer almost desperate and try to tunnel, but at this levels are loopers you can´t imagine. Sometimes I´m just standing and watching chase from my perspective. How he is able to lead killer to jungle gyms and more. Killers are leaving chases a lot. They are multitasking many things at once, but when you leave one good looper you have to hope that another one will not be the same or bigger level. And since then they can easily lead you its easy to the others to do their objectives. 2 people are more than enough to do gens quickly as hell with Prove Thyself.
I really would like to know what you think about video I presented at my post. Because you completely avoided to talk about it. Why is that? In that video you can see level of gameplay what is average for many high skilled survivors.
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I´m playing ONLY SoloQ. SWF is for people what don´t want challange. And that even soloQ is not capable to fullfilled. People are still talking about how survivors had it rough and how is impossible to win against killer, but try to play killer at high level. You will see how it looks like when good player get buffs meant for bad survivors. You will see that difference. Thats why I don´t like these changes. They removed challange from this game on survivor side.
At high level people will realize what state of this game actually is. There is a game in nutshell. They are still talking about 60% killrate. Yet they don´t consider it like killrate for begginers and TOP levels. Because at lower levels you can have 4kills every single time, because there are not that experienced players. There its working even if you don´t want. And its point of view from both sides. I was almost sleeping while climbing up with both sides. Till I reached Iri ranks as survivor. Then I had to open eyes. That was were game started to show step by step that I´m close to a big boy league. But killer start to be rough at Iri almost immidietly. Because there are experienced players. Thats why I know that people what are claiming, that killer is easy and its impossible to escape him. Thats where you can easilly know that he never played killer at high level. That they never played survivors at high level.
At high level you can see how powerfull are these changes. Because if bad survivor can be really good and organized with new hud and upcomming changes. Can you imagine what good player will do with it? If you are good you can unlock true potential of that changes easily.
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-"survivors should NEVER have this much information to begin with. The killer entirely relies on survivors mostly lacking coordination and stumbling around"
That's why we asked for SWF to get nerfed 6 years ago. They refused to even acknowledge SWF was a problem for at least 4 if not 5 years. Then they finally said - oops SWF teams are escaping too often. And the shocking part is they acted like this was a surprise.
Add new rule: no character/item/offering/perk repeats in a SWF. Lock all changes except costume when a SWF is in queue.
Add : GUI element to show what perks/items/addons people are bringing inside a lobby.
Give killers that are not nurse/blight +2 perk slots.
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I touched on it without saying it was specifically about that, because this general rule applys.
If a killer is being led on a 2-5 gen chase, that tells me immediately that either their mmr is really boosted, they are bad at chase or they massively lack game sense. Knowing when to drop a chase as a killer is so important when playing and I feel like a lot of people feel like they have to commit to it when in reality they are just throwing.
The knight was led on a 3 gen chase by the ace. He downed the zarina finally who was bodyblocking for the ace and noed activated. He should have dropped the chase. Ages ago. When he noticed gens were going. The feng even was grouping up with tru3. She could have also pressured other gens too. That is clearly a game sense and skill issue in that video from the knight. If you pressure only one survivor, of course gens are going to be done.
That match could have been completely winnable. Most matches are winnable. You skill in chase as a killer really matters too. It's not just survivors looping, your skill matters too, and I'm tired of people saying it doesn't.
And two people on a gen with pts really doesn't shave off that much time - what was it, like 6-8 seconds?
It was reffering to, that people what are playing that most of the time are very low MMR.
The majority of the players of this game are mid-mmr. There are very few people in high mmr. I don't have the chart handy but I believe.. peanits(?) posted it. This is the reality. The issue truly is hitting the mmr soft cap and you are getting survivors you, at your current level, can't seem to win at.
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I don't think it's as bad as you think it is. As someone who regularly plays both sides, the only things I dislike about the HUD update is being able to see healing and gen progression in real time. That's it.
Even as someone who mains Myers and enjoys a good mirror game. The idea that everyone would know when I was chasing really didn't factor in and I saw no significant changes to the games.
To further this, last night I played games as Slinger, Twins (I suck at twins and used victor like 3 times btw), and ghostface who I also suck at and got a 4k in all three of those games. And yes, I got my ass kicked playing as blight and pyramid head but 4 wins to 2 losses is pretty good. I think it all boils down to how good you are at the game. Practice makes perfect and sometimes you just need to adjust your playstyle to meet new challenges
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Ya, killer is just horrible in the game right now. Gens go so fast. A million pallets. Strong loops. Survivors are not scared of killers the way they said they want them to be. What will happen when nobody wants to play killer? AI?
I don't think the most recent patch with the HUD is what made it this way. It was the last perk update. They increased gen time, so people are bringing Prove Thyself and Tool boxes more than ever.
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Sounds to me like your problem isn't the HUD; it's Dead Hard and Adrenaline. I agree they're getting stale and game needs a meta change.
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As said earlier. There is still more killers willing to play the game then survivors. At minimum here in EU. Make the game worse for survivors and nobody will be willing to play that role. It's less desired role already - why make it even worse?
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Maybe you're just boosted from stomping uncoordinated solo players and the mmr system is trying to tell you that in a pretty direct way
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I do have a secret weapon which goes by the name "Triangle Father". Wanna know why I get so drastically different results on him? It's the fact that he can end chases almost instantly with his m2 ability. Combined with aura reading perks (I stack them on him) he always knows where his targets are but beyond that I'm also capable of predicting where survivors will run off to.
That type of skill however cannot be applied on m1 killers like those which I've been grinding on nonstop, they simply lose because their chasetimes are absurdly long. M2 killers are in league of their own, M1 killers meanwhile only exist to get bullied and made fun of.
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