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M1 Killers Have Nothing Left

calem
calem Member Posts: 533
edited February 2023 in General Discussions

The eruption nerf is going to be the nail in the coffin for M1 killers in terms of gen regression perks. There is nothing left. Not gonna feel good to see 3 survivors on different gens with the new aura reading and know you cannot do anything to stop them.

And somehow BHVR is still making balance changes that is furthering the gap between low and top tier killers.

I am entirely ready for a Deadlock/Pain Resonance/DMS/Agitation meta where m1 killers just face camp every game.

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Comments

  • Emeal
    Emeal Member Posts: 5,153

    lol I have not even gotten around to running eruption yet.

  • calem
    calem Member Posts: 533

    I do not even use the Erup/CoB combo, I am just being objective here. M1 killers already struggle enough, now their best form of regression is completely dead. I wanted Eruption nerfs, not for it to be gutted. Thanks for your meaningful input though.

    Yes, which is my point exactly, they are not viable. Eruption nerf makes them even worse. And there's nothing being done to make them better.

  • Chocolate_Cosmos
    Chocolate_Cosmos Member Posts: 5,735
    edited February 2023

    I don't use gen perks at all and I can still do fine as M1 Killer. Some you lose, some you win.

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 5,626

    Eruption only really took off in the last few months. What did you do before then? There are many M1 killers that need some sort of rework, no doubt, but Eruption isn't the answer. Especially since we've known for several months that perk shake-ups are going to be the norm now.

  • calem
    calem Member Posts: 533

    If you read the other comments, I already stated I wanted Eruption nerfed. Not gutted. I am not saying it's the answer. I am simply pointing out that M1 killers are being left in the dust.

    Before then, we had Pop. Then it was nerfed and made awful. Before that, it was Ruin/Undying. It was also completely gutted. It's an endless cycle.

    Pain Res and DMS have also been nerfed since release.

  • Shaped
    Shaped Member Posts: 5,870

    Daddy still has tp.

  • Iron_Cutlass
    Iron_Cutlass Member Posts: 3,249

    I mean people camp with CoB, Eruption, and Overcharge anyways, if someone is going to camp, I dont think they care about perk value, because if you are losing to the point to where camping is necessary then your perks are basically worthless anyways... unless we are talking about camping the hook after the first chase at 5 gens still remaining, in which case people who do that normally bring a dedicated loadout for it and Eruption is definitely not apart of that.

  • calem
    calem Member Posts: 533

    Again, please read other comments. I wanted Eruption nerfed as much as the next guy. But there is nothing being done to help m1 killers. Power buffs would be nice, but I think a better thing is map balance. I would like it if people stopped misinterpreting this post lol. I never said I wanted to keep Eruption as is. I just pointed out m1 killers have almost nothing left.

  • sizzlingmario4
    sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 6,897

    Fair enough. Map balance absolutely is a problem too. I’d love for killers like Pig, Trapper, Myers, and Sadako to get looked at, but map design is definitely one of the biggest issues in the game right now and the worst part is it hasn’t gotten much better recently. Yeah, Eyrie is a bit better now, but we’ve still had several bad maps released over the last couple of years. Original RPD, original Eyrie, Garden of Joy, and now Shattered Square. Personally I’m at a point now where I don’t want new maps anymore until existing problematic maps are improved.

  • calem
    calem Member Posts: 533

    At least you understand me lol

    Yep, I used to main Pig. But change after change, it just wasn't fun anymore. Now I mostly play Huntress or Nurse. Personally I don't think the Eyrie change did much at all. The map is still huge, riddled with safe pallets, and has an extremely strong main building. I agree with you, I'd rather have map balance changes/reworks than new maps. Garden of Joy and Decimated Borgo are 2 of the worst maps they've ever made (especially GoJ, I die a little inside every time I load into it as killer).

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,758

    they got pain res and jolt. that is pretty much new meta after eruption is changed. they are remaining instant regression perks to apply max regression instead of current progression. I am expecting pain res and Jolt to receive current progression in mid-chapter patch. They're clearly the best option available to killer and judging from dev tweat, this is likely their next target in the incoming mid-chapter.

  • Warlord1981NL
    Warlord1981NL Member Posts: 262

    That is mostly because you havent played killer ever and are flat out lying. If you had ever played killer youd know exactly what OP is talking about.

  • calem
    calem Member Posts: 533

    Realistically, unless you're playing Nurse/Blight/Spirit, you will only win if the survivors aren't great, or they're screwed by awful map RNG. On a level playing field (all 5 players are equally skilled, the map is "fair" e.g. Coal Tower), no killer is gonna get more than a 2k except the top 3.

  • foodie
    foodie Member Posts: 437

    So for months people complain about eruption and how overpowered it is. ok, devs are changing that, and now everyone is complaining about the nerf.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,783

    And how often are 5 perfectly matched players going to play together? Almost never.

    Also, that's not even true. Take 5 300 hour players. The Killer plays facecamping Bubba with good perks, the Survivors lose EVERY time. Clearly, there's nuance here, it's not as black and white as you'd like

  • burt0r
    burt0r Member Posts: 4,160

    There is a difference between a "nerf" and a "butchering" aka the difference between tweaking something and making it borderline useless.

  • foodie
    foodie Member Posts: 437

    It will still be useful.

    If you have to rely solely on perks to have a good match, perhaps ask yourself what can you do or learn to be a better killer or suggest an improvement for the killer you play.

    For months, I was seeing posts about the perk being "overpowered". Devs listened and now "oh but why are you nerfing the only good perk"

  • Anti051
    Anti051 Member Posts: 653

    Strategic slugging with knockout can create more time than anything.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,800

    Pop and RuinDying were both gutted in the same update, and there was a solid chunk of time between 6.1.0 and when Eruption found it's place as a true meta staple (before that, it was just OverBrine seeing play). Considering that during this chunk of time is when Hyperfocus rush builds we're at their peak and yet people were still capable of winning with M1 killers, I don't think the death of eruption is the death of every single M1 killer ever.

    However, they'll now have individual good regression and slowdown perks on them rather than just being able to slap on Eruption and call it a day.

    For example, Sadako will be able to get a lot of milage out of Jolt due to a lower terror radius and her ability to use Sloppy effectively, whereas Doc would probably be better with the PR/DMS combo because DMS works really well with his Static Blast. Meanwhile any killer that needs time to set up would be running Corrupt instead.

    The only universally good slowdown on every single killer after this nerf is Deadlock, and I'm fine with that. Each character should have a collection of perks that they're good with, but in order to encourage build variety and just to make sure it isn't the same perk on every single killer, there shouldn't be one outlier that's just too overbearingly good.

  • burt0r
    burt0r Member Posts: 4,160

    "It will be useful?"

    10% regress of CURRENT progression aka anything between 0-8,9 seconds of a gen. Survivor will have that undone before the killer even fully hooked the downed.

    And the 10 second aura read AFTER A DOWN?

    Either it will be completely useless because it takes longer to pickup, carry and hook the downed survivor OR it promotes more slugging especially on mobility killers, which i am sure every survivor will love (or hope it will encourage consideration for basekit UB).

    But hey, i don't care. I haven't played in over a year, so i don't even have the perk much less ever used it but keep assuming stuff 😘

    I am here only to kill time and for entertainment.

  • foodie
    foodie Member Posts: 437

    Sure bud ) Because you don't care, don't own the perk and haven't played in a year, you're so pressed about the perk's incoming changes, so much so that you even calculated how many seconds 10% regress will be.

  • w1422328
    w1422328 Member Posts: 2

    Cry more

  • Veinslay
    Veinslay Member Posts: 1,959

    My buddy mains Clown at high MMR vs. organized teams and 4ks all the time without running any slowdown perks at all! The REAL killer mains won't even notice this Eruption nerf!

  • Zeb89AceGamer
    Zeb89AceGamer Member Posts: 41

    The complaining has begun, 🤣 cringe people relying on a perk to win

  • Gamall
    Gamall Member Posts: 487

    Tell me about all the other surv perks nerfed into the ground after the previous massive overhaul patch

  • Dwight_Fairfield
    Dwight_Fairfield Member Posts: 7,015

    I have never used eruption on Mikey and do just fine without it.

    Honestly I would rather get no kills than win because I had it. Odds are the only reason I would have got value from it is because poor solo players had no idea when a team mate was going to go down.

  • Snowflake_Syndrome
    Snowflake_Syndrome Member Posts: 239

    I don't really use much regression. Oppression alone is usually more than enough in my builds.

  • squbax
    squbax Member Posts: 1,491

    Who aside from bots fails the oppresion skillcheck, like actually people fail that?

  • Akumakaji
    Akumakaji Member Posts: 5,449
    edited February 2023

    Every so often I play a couple of rounds of End-Game-Bad-SurpriseMyers, ie NOED, NoWayOut, Remember Me and of course Blood Warden. The build doesn't always work, but more often then not it leads to fun and hilariously frantic end-game situations.


    Basically I chill all game, trying to find the obsession asap and hit them a couple of times and hook as many different suevivors as possible. Often survivors get really cocktails, because they feel so save, and then NOED leads to many quick downs, as no one seems to expect it with Myers. Every third game or so the last two survivors will linger in the exit gate and prepare for a save, and that's when Blood Warden leads to the most beautiful games. Bonus points if I manage to chase everyone around and slug one or two survivors, till the last quarter of the EGC starts. If I manage to hook one survivor then, I will then step back and nod frantically, knowing fully well that everyone is dead :)


    Myers has a tremendous snowball effect and you should never consider a Myers game truly over until the exit gates are open and they tbag you from a safe distance, buuuut he is struggling a lot in normal gameplay. What allows him to turn a game around and snowball so often is his native exposed for such a long time and survivors Hubris to wanting a 4E against such a perceived weak killer, especially when they got the match in their favor all game long.


    BTW, today I had a fun survivor hubris game with Slinger. Slinger is by no means a M1 killer, but I can't play him and struggled through 3 matches to finally finish my daily. Halfway through the trial I had enough from the particularly toxic group of survivors who noticed how bad my shots were and who just tried to torment me, so I just stopped moving and faced the sky.


    They couldn't life with the thought of just finishing their gens and not tormenting me any further, though and fast vaulted 2 dozen times right in front or me. By the 25th slide I had enough and managed to grab one while vaulting and everything deranged from there. He got hooked, the next survivor got hook grabbed and I dropped them and managed to hit the third one out of position and reel them in. By the time I had hooked them and came back to the first hook, the last survivor was somewhere around and well, shortly later I had a 4K and some extremely salty "f****** camper" and "go and eat s*** camper" comments. Lol, I will never understand this mindset. It was your own Hubris that brought this turnaround, not some clever mindgame of mine. Just leave and be happy, but the urge to BM is just too stronk with some players.

  • Snowflake_Syndrome
    Snowflake_Syndrome Member Posts: 239

    It doesn't need to be a super good regression perk but it's better than nothing. I mean good players will usually slam gens even with full regression builds anyways.

    And to be fair I'm not a sweatlord who cares about winning every match. Just 1 regression maybe besides Jolt allows me to be flexible with my 3 other perks.

  • BlueRose
    BlueRose Member Posts: 658

    I agree there were a lot of survivor perks that got gutted also. I never once argued that fact. I think what they did to DS, self-care, and calm spirit was just as dumb as the eruption nerf. I was just speaking from a killer pov since I mainly play killers but I completely agree on survivors have seen BHVR's way of nerfing perks. But there is one major outliner here between survivors and killer perk nerfs. Even though they both had a number of perks that just killed off bc of the overhaul patch only one of them kept their num one perk and that is DH. DH was "nerf" in that overhaul patch but it wasn't killed or gutted. It only made slightly weaker thanks to its rework. Is better to go against it now? Yes, it is. I would prefer going against today's DH anytime than the old DH but why can't killer have that same treatment for its num one perk? Why can survivors keep its toy but killer cant? Did the eruption need a change? Hell yes, it did but didn't need to be taken out back and shot.

    The main problem with these meta shake-up patches is they really don't do anything other than replace the old meta with a new meta. By nerfing things into the ground and buffing weaker perks all you doing is removing choose and that is what most of us want. I want all the perks both on the survivor and killer sides to be as close in power as possible so can easily choose the perk you like the most and get the same value for it. As it is now there is no more variety than it was before. You still see killers and survivors running the same 4 perks every game. The only different between now and pre-6.1 is those same 4 perks were switch for 4 different peks but there still is any variety,

  • KingFieldShipper
    KingFieldShipper Member Posts: 612

    No, I am just a confident killer. It's my preferred role, but try again ig.

    Two things:

    A) I didn't say I didn't use any regression. I said I didn't run gen kick perks because I don't kick gens.

    B) I don't know my mmr, you don't know your mmr, and you probably, yourself, are not high mmr.

  • jajay119
    jajay119 Member Posts: 1,059
    edited February 2023

    Pop + Dead Mans + Overcharge + Jolt + Call of Brine all say hello.


    Literally more perks than you can equip in one loadout there.

    In terms if sheer impact, as a regression perk Eruption isn't even one of the best. The way it activated was the main issue just needed tweaking and theyve certainly gone overboard. But, Call of brine is often doing all the heavy lifting.

  • Wylrin
    Wylrin Member Posts: 98

    Now I know I'm not really a great - and certainly not high MMR - M1 killer, which might make everything I say meaningless to some people, but I figure I'd put in my two cents.

    The most I ever use of generator regressing or slowdown perks is one, maybe two, at the same time in any given build. And honestly, the only occurrence that comes to mind where I used more than one was when I was trying to make Freddy's wool shirt and dress addons work. Overcharge and Oppression weren't used so much for actually generator regression in those cases, but more so just to try to make people actually miss a skill check to make those addons of Freddy's actually do something. Because rarely - if ever - does anyone miss a normal skill check in Dead by Daylight, unless it happens to be one of those occurrences where you decide to leave a generator and the game decides to give you a skill check at that exact moment, ultimately forcing a failed skill check on you. And considering Freddy doesn't have a terror radius for survivors in the Dream World, most perks that make skill checks more difficult are almost completely useless on him. So not only do you have to bank on the hope that an Overcharge or Oppression skill check will actually do its job, but also hope that said survivor is in the Dream World at the time to get the full utilization. Hard to make work, ultimately.

    But I'm getting off topic. The point is that I prefer running perk builds that make me as the killer more threatening as opposed to stalling or hindering survivors. I realize that in a 4v1, actively hindering all four survivors at once with certain perks is probably more effective than being more effective in chase against a singular survivor at any given time in the match. But I just prefer this playstyle more, personally. I want to play as a killer chasing people down like a crazed lunatic, not a guy with a weapon who spends more time kicking generators than actually using it on people. But that's a personal preference thing.

    Again, I don't claim to know what top tier gameplay against insane survivors is like, so take this with a grain of salt, but that being said...

    My experience with running more aggressive perks (or just information perks) rather than stalling or defensive perks is quite polarized from match to match. It's either a massacre where I end up getting a lot of hooks/kills or it's the exact opposite where I only get a couple hooks in the entire match. You either win pretty decisively or you get an admittedly embarrassing outcome that makes you wonder, "Geez, what did I do wrong this game?"

    But I'm honestly okay with this. Regardless of whether it's a win or a loss for me, the match goes pretty quickly. And I think we've all had one of those games that stretches out forever - either as a survivor or killer - that makes you lose the enjoyment and drive to actually win, instead at that point just wanting it to be over.

    Do I have games where I do Huntress-tier growling at everything seeming to go wrong facing survivors? Of course. But I'd prefer that temporary frustration if it means my games can be more intense, more action-packed, more with the feel that I'm an unhinged maniac swinging sharp and pointy things at people as opposed to someone who really hates generators and will drop everything to ensure they keep regressing.

    So from both an entertainment level perspective and one that's focused on performance, I feel like perk builds that don't lean so heavily on generator stalling are both just more fun and also wholly possible to win with. It's just a mixed bag whether you manage an aggressive win or lose horribly. Are there still games where the outcome is more in between? Absolutely. And that's great, too, in my mind.

    I personally think it might be less a matter of, "M1 killers can't win without certain perks," and more a matter of, "M1 killers can't win every game without certain perks," which I believe is a very important distinction.

    But those are just my thoughts on the matter. What do you guys think?

  • wydyadoit
    wydyadoit Member Posts: 1,145

    Eruption was a waste of time. Who’s going to run around smacking gens for a one off regression when you can smack survivors?

    unless you’re running brutal strength and fired up it’s not worth.

  • Gamall
    Gamall Member Posts: 487

    You have hit the point.

    I'm afraid that devs really don't know how to balance perks because they themself don't play their own game. Nerfing into the ground a perk only to render it unusable and replace it with another with a different name is the worst move you can do. Every perk should be equally strong as others in order to have variety and different playstyles according to different killers but it's never gonna happen unfortunately.

    The only thing I want to say to you anyway is that there will always be a meta that you change the perks as much as possible. Killers will always use gen regression perks and survs will always use 2nd chance perks and gen progression perks, there is nothing wrong with this because it is how the game works expecially in high MMR

  • Brimp
    Brimp Member Posts: 2,982

    Yeah but m1's have little to no map pressure. Just ask any person who tries to play oni in and competitive scene. Its literal hell until he gets hit power to keep a blood snowball going. Now sure not everyone goes against super sweaty comp teams but even a somewhat coordinated team will still crush m1's.

  • w1422328
    w1422328 Member Posts: 2

    lmao what who. DH doesn’t even give distance for FL saves anymore. It’s not that good at all unless you’re going against some “killer main” with less than 1k hous (aka a noob)

  • IronKnight55
    IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,950

    This. Plus, they could buff M1 killers if necessary. They can't leave a perk as broken as Eruption in the game because it made them feel better to play.