DS and off the record is disabled at EGC, why is basekit BT NOT????
Why is basekit BT still active in eng game collapse? why can they still do body blocks while being totally safe from BT when off the record and decisive strike is turned off? why is it fair?
Shouldn't it be completely disabled? if all you have is a hook next to the exit and they do a unhook it's gg they won, why's that?
Basekit BT should not be a thing in EGC UNLESS they actually use the perk.
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I agree with this. I feel you should only have BT in EGC if you bring BT. The basekit BT should deactivate like with OTR and DS.
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This would bring BT back in popularity since it's pretty much never used anymore.
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Basekit BT is counterable in endgame by not hooking the survivor right next to an open exit gate. 10 seconds is significant, but it doesn't get you across the map.
If it were disabled in endgame, then there's no counterplay for a survivor after they get unhooked because they can just be instantly downed again before going anywhere.
DS and OTR, on the other hand, are disabled in endgame (and should be) because there truly was zero counterplay to this for killers in almost all situations.
In the worst case scenario where your only option is to hook a survivor near an open exit gate, you still have the option of going for another survivor when they try to unhook and/or grabbing someone mid-unhook. But if you're at that point with 4 survivors alive, chances are you've basically already lost the game anyways regardless of whether you manage to get that kill or not.
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On the contrary I think ds and otr shouldn't be disabled at all, and I think basekit bt is fine after gens are done.
IMO if you didn't get any kills, without the intention of, say, using an end game build, you don't deserve the kill. Plus a good chunk of times you can force a hook trade.
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What they need to do with basekit BT is to turn the collision off for the unhooked individual until the BT time is passed. That way, they can't take aggression right off the hook, which is abusing the basekit BT.
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Not because it's my only option and there's still 4 survivors means it should still be a thing, end game means survivors get out and if you are hooked expect death, nothing more nothing less, free endurance once EGC should be turned off, period.
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we've been saying that to the devs since they added basekit BT, remove collision, when will they actually listen to feedback about it?
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I guess we aren't being loud enough about it. Gotta get lots of topics on it and then you need to make it a killer perk so it gets fixed then we can flip it back to survivors :-P That's how ridiculous BHVR is with nerfs. They will rework survivor perks that are to be nerfed, but if it's a killer perk they nuke it from space.
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Eruption vibe
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dont turn it into another us vs them argument. They nuked survivor perks too. Mettle of man for example was nerfed in under 2 months and it’s #########. Boil over was nerfed in 1 week and it’s not that strong as it was. Decisive strike was nerfed like 5-6 times. Iron Will was nerfed it’s not used anymore.
Should I keep going? Or do you get the point? Maybe they don’t actually just nuke killer perks they do it to survivors too. Eruption was very problematic and needed the nerf.
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I use Noed, Rancor, Remember Me, Terminus. It sad me when other 3 dont bother to make an attempt, leave the hooked one and escape, I dont have a chance to make the perks play.
Endurance from basekit BT actually give killers more kills. It gives a sense to other survivors think they can make a save, sometimes from 1K lead to 4K. Without it, remaining survivors would just leave.
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You're not entitled to a kill just because it's endgame.
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If it got to end game and there's 4 survivors still alive no you don't deserve a free kill, you lost.
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That's why you gotta run NWO so they can't just leave.
Distance from the killer has nothing to do with it, it just activates every time no matter what. Doesn't matter if the killer is nearby or not. It even works if you unhook yourself.
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I tend to let all 4 survivors alive until end game so they can taste my end game build, be struggle to get 4 escape.
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Technically, they're disabled when gates are powered. So, before egc.
And I see no problem with basekit BT still working. I'm told basekit camping and tunneling work throughout the whole trial.
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mettle of man was BS, especially when used by SWF teams, so it gets the more than necessary nerf... now it's a niche perk, but it can still work properly with the right plays. Boil over was nerfed because it was LITERALLY impossible to hook people in certain zones of the map and for that reason survivors abused it (i dare you to find a hook in midwitch or when they went in the "basement" of the badham school for example: even now the hook spawn is so messed up that even without boil over in the match you'll struggle to find a hook... useless to say that SWF utterly worsened the situation). DS was RIGHTFULLY tuned down for a simple reason: in the beginning the stun was of 3 seconds, then they increase the stun to 5 seconds in order to make enduring less effective on the stun, then they nerfed enduring but WITHOUT bringing back the ds stun to 3 seconds, more a fix than a real nerf, but even in the current state is still useful (the real nerf, that was needed, was to cancel it if the survivor start doing certain actions/deactivate it in the endgame, where it was a FREE escape)... Survivor's perks are still perfectly usable even after being "reworked" (the only exceptions to this rule are selfcare and pharmacy who were nuked into the oblivion without a good reason), i can't say the same for the killer's perks (at least recently speaking... pop? nerfed into the ground. ruin? nerfed into the ground. eruption? nerfed into the ground. thanato? same... even corrupt intervention wasn't spared. Sure, even here there are a couple of exceptions like pain resonance, that was tweaked, removing the notification of which gen was regressed or gift of pain, that was slightly buffed by adding a 4% of genspeed penalty on healed survivors already hooked but aside those 2 cases everything was nuked).
P.S: regarding eruption it doesn't needed a nerf, but a COMPLETE rework since that perk was too strong aganist solos but too much weak aganist premades
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I dont care how skilled or unskilled they are, what I do care about is how do you propose they deal with a killer sitting right next to a hook when they know they have nothing stopping them from just hitting the unhooked Survivor the moment theyre off
Amuse me
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No, He's more needed in the early game.
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i don't think survivors should have base kit borrowed time.
yeah i said it. fight me.
run an anti-hook perk as the entity intended.
or should we make deadhard and adrenaline basekit also since everyone runs them too?
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Sorry but mettle of man needed to go. You can't seriously sit there complaining about not getting free hits without working for it and expect people to take you seriously
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Borrowed Time hasn't worked based on terror radius for like 2 years.
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I figure because BT lasts like 10 seconds and DS and OTR last 60+ seconds.
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Why should BT be active at egc if you bring the perk but not OTR and DS?
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“as the entity intended?”
The devs literally implemented base BT because tunneling was often uncounterable without it if the killer was near the hook. The entire point was to keep BT from basically being a required part of a survivor’s loadout.
DH and Adrenaline aren’t used to counter otherwise uncounterable situations, they’re used because they’re very strong perks. BT in the past was a strong perk that also band-aided a core issue with the game. It’s still a good perk now, it just isn’t required anymore. And that’s good.
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But anyway... getting a kill during EGC isn't free by any stretch of the imagination
The only way it's free is if I hook a Survivor and the rest leave
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DS and OTR are perks.
Basekit BT isn't a perk.
Whether or not it should be disabled during EGC, I don't feel like discussing. But this is likely why the basekit BT isn't disabled during EGC is because it's an innate feature built into unhooking rather than a perk.
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Yeah, please keep going with your examples, like Boil Over. Cause it was nuked into the ground and doesn't do ANYTHING for the survivors anymore *dripping with sarcasm*. It must be why I see it in many of my games and why I can barely make it to hook with survivors who have that perk proc'ed. Decisive Strike is more of the same, still usable, and I still see it in games. Iron Will is still usable; however, there might be better perks for staying quiet. Your examples are exceptionally weak.
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Mettle of man? That perk is useless. Boil over is barley seen and if you seriously can’t hook them that’s your own fault. Unless your on eyrie, the garden or a map that barley has hooks then ok. but you should be making it to your hooks with no issue. DS is completely useless on nurse and blight or any killer that can catch up. DS is barley in my games and it’s not as strong as it was. Iron Will doesn’t silence anymore, so it’s weak against spirit.
Self care was nerfed to uselessness
I mean really? if your seriously saying boil over was not nuked and you can’t hook then it’s a skill issue
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Do you even understand how some of these perks work? The situation is a killer hard camping a hook at end game and you list a bunch of perks that are wholly ineffective in that scenario:
Adrenaline: only works once, and this also only works if you were hooked before last gen pops.
Saboteur: in what world can you sabo a hook that's already in use? Or are you implying that sabo can always just stop every hook, guaranteed?
Dead Hard: maybe, but it's still a guaranteed trade with STBFL and you're back to the same situation with a different person on hook.
Reassurance: does nothing to resolve the hook camping in end game because there's no gen pressure left, only buys 30 seconds of time at end game to prolong the exact same stalemate scenario. The killer isn't leaving.
Off the record and DS: these are literally disabled in end game.... Read the perks.
Breakout is useless if you get downed immediately off hook. You're eliminating BT in this thought experiment and there are no other protections, so someone, either unhooker or hooked is going down at the base of the hook. You think it takes 15 seconds to put someone back on that same hook without needing to walk? There is 0 chance of wiggling off here.
Mettle of man: maybe could work, but you'd have to have it active and unused while on the hook. That's a pretty specific and unlikely scenario, and it only works once. One hook trade and that strat is gone entirely.
Breakdown again maybe, but it's only useful if hooks are far enough apart that the killer can't just carry you to another one. And when they do make it to a hook, you're now guaranteed to be in the same situation, but now farther from the exit.
Deliverance: yeah, try unhooking yourself in the killers face with no BT and see how well that works out for you. Now you're broken on the ground at the base of the hook.
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If you hook a survivor anywhere near gates where bt cannot be countered you already made a poor strategic choice, might have been because of bad map hook rng but at that point we just asking for changes only to have few pennies
Also at that point you might straight up ask for a automatic kill in endgame would be less shady and more direct
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Thats why killers should hard tunnel as soon as possible
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A very good idea. This would make BT have a place in the current meta, because with the 10s basekit it just doesn't make sense to waste a perk slot for a small buff for something you can get for free.
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just think about what would happen if bhvr made it up in the end, swf would often take bt with it (because bt always has to give the 10sec) to save her mates but if bt doesn't work in the end game either then as a killer you can immediately hit the person who is unhooked, so no one who is hooked can escape (i.e. people just go out instead of helping) and on top of that, nobody are really motivated in the solo q save mates, if you take base bt away now, I promise you, almost everyone will only think of themselves
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you down a survivor that just opened the exit and you pikc up and all surivrs body block hardcore and go down even to not giv eyou the hook so you only have time for the closest hook, either you pick the other one and go further or stay here, if you go for the other one they all heal and get the other one, nothing they cna do, you can't focus the injured one and even if you try to go the the 1 player tha tunhook and you hit while they unhook, if you would reach them before they leave the unhooked has SB with 10% bt and they block 1 of the openins and they are still invinsible for 7 seconds so you try to get the other survivor by another direction but since you are only 5% faster than the unhooked they cna still bocy block the hell out of you and both are out.
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Don't hook survivor right at open exit gate and you should be fine. It encourages you to try to down or grab the unhooker so try that instead or you can count to 10. If bt would not be feature all survivors would just leave immediatelly and there would not be fun endgames anymore.
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Why would ANY competent killer move an inch away from hook? All he needs is to wait for unhook and pressing M1 once it happens. Done. No thinking required. No skill required. Just guaranteed kill. No possibility to do anything about it by anyone - with exception to perks - that can change the situation for both sides.
If it's such a problem you might not hook to any hook you want, bring IG+Agi. Well. That's 2 perks just for this situation? Then why are you suggesting survivors take whole build just to counter this situation?
Killer still has chance. Killer can always grab. With STBFL you can always down at least one (or have chance to). And there needs to be interaction between both groups and both sides can screw up and loose the game then and there. Much better then mindless "press M1 after unhook and forget there are any other buttons in game".
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I can see your point but there are things you can do so it won't be a free escape. Don't hook them near an open exit gate (If it's 99 and the survivor that got unhooked tapped the gate to open it they lose BT) and wait out their basekit BT (the chances that the unhooker has BT are near 0). I think that basekit BT is still fair since there is still room for counterplay but I wouldn't complain if it would deactivate in EG.
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