The second iteration of 2v8 is now LIVE - find out more information here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/480-2v8-developer-update

Can we talk about the hag? She needs some help.

Okay, so this is obviously going to be a hot take, but right now I truly believe that hag is one of the worst killers in the game. I've mained hag since I got dead by daylight about four years ago. It's my opinion that when her counter play is understood, she can be bullied by even uncoordinated teams. It only takes one person to harass her traps and make her functionally useless, flashlight or no flashlight. So, I'll try illustrate some points.

Instant teleport hits are wildly inconsistent: Survivors can approach the trap in such a way that doesn't get their camera pulled. There's been multiple times where I knew someone had already used their sprint burst and was coming back for an item, I was mashing the teleport button, and they still had too much distance for a hit. I've seen this happen to every premiere hag main. Michi, SpaceCoconut, etc. If the survivors know how to moonwalk to the very edge of the traps range they simply have zero catch value. And that's not even mentioning sprint burst and DH. DH isn't quite as bad as sprint burst but still hurts hag in particular because she needs the instant teleport hit, if she waits it out she loses precious distance. Sprint burst is self explanatory. You teleport, your trap is gone, and the survivor is long gone too.


Circle of healing nullifies hags entire playstyle: Hag is hit and run. She gets the team injured and starts picking people off. Circle of healing makes it to where they can just run to the side of the map where you dont have traps and heal, undoing all of the time you put in for the injures. There are ways to play around this, you can do cheeky things like pre-trapping totems which has gotten me a few cute grabs, but nothing consistent. Time is money with hag and it hurts her a lot juggling set up, gen patrol, and snuffing out totems. If there's more than one in play, you're probably #########.

To add to my point, in a competitive setting like DBD league and the like, hag has the most stage bans and restrictions for what survivors can bring. A team running all sprint burst and flash lights, hag doesn't even hook anyone. This limits her build variety so much to the point where you have to bring corrupt intervention and franklins to stand a chance against any talented team.

Also, people severely overestimate hags skill cap. A lot of people say she's just "really hard" and takes time, she plays 4d chess, whatever. She has some versatility and creativity, sure, you can place your traps in clever places but the basic concept with hag is not rocket science. You set up a killzone next to a cluster of defendable generators if possible, trap up pallets, vaults, loops, and pathways going in and out of that killzone. Good luck doing that the red forest, decimated borgo, garden of joy, etc. though.


So what do we do? The biggest complaint from everyone is that hag camps or places traps in front of the hook. I can't tell you how many matches I've played where I placed one trap under the hook, thought in my head "Okay, time to go away and set up elsewhere" and before I can even leave the entire team 9/11's into my first hook, dies, and sends me hate mail after. Naturally, we make it to where she can't place traps within 8 or 9 meters of a hook. But that greatly diminishes her snowball potential. What should she get in exchange?

Hag first became arguably top 3 after the round of buffs that reduced trap setting time. In my opinion, the 25% trap speed add on should be basekit. But in addition to actually being able to set up, she needs something to help her in chase. I think a lesser version of mint rag should be base kit. Allow her to teleport to any trap regardless of if it's tripped or not within 8 or 9 meters. This will allow her to not only cut people off but potentially zone people back into her web. Traps should also have a greater penalty for being tripped. It should be much riskier than it is now. Survivors that know what they're doing there is essentially no risk at all. With demogorgon, survivors had at least some price to pay insofar as being oblivious. Hag having some kind of haste status upon teleporting would be a great qaulity of life update.


Opinions?

Comments

  • Technature
    Technature Member Posts: 619

    I don't think you're wrong, Hag is definitely down there. Her strength lies in being able to abandon bad chases to start new ones instantly and zoning, but she has to set them up first which is just the death knell in pretty much any killers kit.

    The people sending you hate mail is stupid though. I just laugh at people that can't be bothered to crouch walk.

  • Cryptikk
    Cryptikk Member Posts: 418

    Hag being a weak killer is a hot take?

  • Zokenay
    Zokenay Member Posts: 1,158

    Shes a killer that needs a proper rework, shes miserable to play and go against, specially against.

  • Wahara
    Wahara Member Posts: 237
    edited February 2023

    To some. Mostly delusional hag mains. I remember being in the hag discord awhile back and they all act like only four people in the world know how play her properly. I don't know, sometimes I feel like people can be reallly pretentious about this killer in particular, overstate her strengths and are dismissive of her glaring pit falls. Like Otz videos, I love the man but I feel like he's greatly contributed to people thinking she's this 9000 IQ big brained hard to play killer when in reality she just sucks.

    The only thing the teleport has going for hag is the phantasm which will sometimes force hits because of the camera swing if spaced properly but even that's countered by walking backwards. If the phantasm actually locked you in place even for just one full second they'd be something to actually have a healthy respect for, or at the very least make sure she was outside of teleport range before attempting.

  • JudithMorel
    JudithMorel Member Posts: 562

    shes an abomination to play against thats for sure.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,758

    I think they should make hag 115% m/s. Hag's overrated but she is not a bad character.

  • DBDVulture
    DBDVulture Member Posts: 2,437

    Hag already had a rework. The only thing she needs is base kit trap removal when crouching. It's not fair play that you need a light to remove her traps since she can bring Franklins.

    Most people see hag as an "A" tier killer. She got brought down a bit when survivors got base kit BT because now she can't really tunnel. This was a good change against her because overall she was very cheap to play against.


    Your gripes about survivors using smart tactics to counter traps is called : fair play. If there is nothing to counter taps then she's not fun/fair to play against.


    -"Circle of healing nullifies hags entire playstyle"

    CoH is a broken perk. It should either be self care speed or the killer should be able to break the bones when they kick a boon. If the killer broke the bones that means you could reuse the perk but would have to find new bones.

  • Wahara
    Wahara Member Posts: 237
    edited February 2023

    She didn't have a re-work. And the complaint wasn't that traps are counterable, but that they're too easy to counter and possess virtually no risk to the experienced survivor. Her counterplay is free AF. The fact you think she needs a nerf of all things is pretty outrageous. If you think you have to bring a flashlight to keep hag from setting up you weren't really interested in absorbing what I posted.

    As for what most people perceive to be true, that's not really a point because "most people" can be wrong, but even taking that on its face its wrong. Most people put her in C, B if they're sentimental.

  • Warlord1981NL
    Warlord1981NL Member Posts: 262

    All killers need help, no perks around anymore that actually do anything...

  • DBDVulture
    DBDVulture Member Posts: 2,437

    Her trap speed was stupidly slow. It was about 3x as long. She had limits on her teleport and her addons were not as good overall.


    Oh but she did. Go look at the wiki and you can see where she had multiple addons and mechanics changed.

    If you are a hag main I am sure you do not want to hear it but she has very little counterplay vs "medium" tier survivors. Imagine playing vs trapper and you could only disarm a beartrap by using up some of your toolbox. That sounds op right? Well that's what Hag is now basically.


    This is one of the most oppressive and annoying addons to play against in the entire game.

    Tell me where the counterplay for this addon exists.

  • Alionis
    Alionis Member Posts: 1,025

    Hag had a rework before the devs started calling them that. They worked together with one, if not the best, Hag main at the time and went over every single add-on of hers, as well as her basekit.

    In many ways, she was the first.

  • Marik1987
    Marik1987 Member Posts: 1,700

    Freddy first