http://dbd.game/killswitch
Will BHVR respond to the discontent regarding Tools of Torment?
It would have been a positive to see something by now, not that I expected it. I have never seen so much backlash to anything they have done. This isn’t much of a game for casuals. They have a dedicated player base that should be addressed in situations such as this.
Comments
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I mean, what kind of response would they even give, though?
There's no concrete cause for offence that'd warrant responding to, like if they'd used accidentally bigoted/offensive material or something. A bunch of people just don't like it, I'm not sure what a response would even look like for a situation like that.
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When the overwhelming of your dedicated player base is upset with your new release, it’s time to make some changes and keep them informed in the meantime.
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Yes but, what should they be saying? Nothing short of "okay we're completely changing everything" would actually be a response to what people are saying, and they obviously shouldn't be doing that for a myriad of reasons- and even if you think they should, that's not "official comment", that's "changing everything".
There's nothing they can actually say that would sate the people who are mad about this, so we're automatically moving out into the realms of them making changes, and making changes that fundamentally change what this chapter looks like would anger all the people who actually like it. There's nothing to do but ride it out, from a business perspective.
Like I said, if there were something to respond to I would agree with you, but this is just people disliking a chapter in general.
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The only thing they should, buff Skull Merchant, but they really should ignore baby cries about her not being a Doctor clone oh she started to swap her body parts to be robot like LOL, or a female with tragic backstory as usual, she is just a victim!!!.
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I mean I feel like Trickster was received almost as poorly with a ton if "this doesn't belong in DBD" threads. But the game survived and we got Resident Evil right after so you know this one may not have been for you but anniversary is usually more universally well received last few have been Dredge, Nemesis, Executioner and Ghost Face so usually doesn't disappoint.
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People’s gripes are pretty clear. It’s not accurate to say people just “don’t like it.”
- Killers design looks like a Fornite or Apex character.
- Killers power is weak other than 3 gen play, which is disliked by most and is a main criticism of the Knight. Even if buffed it is still very boring.
- The perks are weak and will be little more than bloodweb pollution
People seem to like the Survivors themselves and the map changes.
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Knight was poorly received overall. Somehow they made a chapter that made Knight look good. The trend is not promising.
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Right, but first of all- that first one is just not liking it. That's an opinion, there are people who dislike the way she looks for that stated reason.
The second is only true because she's weak, and even then she's not that good at 3-gen strategies compared to the average killer. The response is to buff her, which, there's no way they won't. Whether it's enough is one thing, but let's keep sight of what we're talking about here.
The third is... yeah? So many chapters have weak perks. These ones aren't even that bad, they're just decent for the most part. That's not a reason to call for even an official comment, let alone call for them to say they're changing everything.
Two of those three, the second two, are also the things that BHVR do comment on.... in the post-PTB patch notes. That's where that comment goes, that's where they say "here's what we're changing". It's not new, there's nothing that warrants changing the way they do these things. It's just, the PTB has some balance problems. That's half of what the PTB is for.
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The treatment of the Twins should answer any and all questions you might have regarding the chapter.
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This game is in such a poor state right now its literally curing my gaming addiction.
Id rather work, work on my car, fix stuff around the house, take my dog for a walk. I know gaming is a waste of time but it usually doesnt feel that way.
I actually feel like I am wasting my time. The game itself is toxic and stale. The devs dont care what I (we) have to say at all.
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This chapter seems like an experiment to see if sex appeal can sell mediocre/bad original content. Not only is this the first sexy killer, but we're getting two survivors, one male and one female, both attractive. There's no license behind it, nothing else to propel players to purchase it.
I don't see BHVR addressing or changing anything major until they determine how important visuals are in the sale of a new chapter.
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Now your speaking my language 😉
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Nah. The map overhauls look great, Shelter Woods looks like an actual fun map now, the survivors look fine, and even though I personally like the killer's visual design (other than the mask) I understand why people don't, but it's not something that warrants an official response. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they came out and said "yeah our new chapter is a goofy, all the hard work our team put into it over the past year or so is garbage."
All they need to do is buff/tweak her power and the perks, which is what they do most of the time. If you really hate her, don't buy her at release. If you like the power but not the look, maybe wait for a skin? Idk you won't even see her 95% of your match so who cares.
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I will never understand taking the time to ask someone “who cares?”
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This isn’t much of a game for casuals.
Lol, this is literally casuals heaven the game though...
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Between buying DLCs, prestiging to unlock perks, and understanding the game enough to enjoy it (hypothetically), you are looking at a significant time and money investment.
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I would say that Trickster would qualify as sexy, but you're generally correct. This chapter seems like it's mostly laying a pipeline for cosmetics.
And hey, I like looking at attractive people as much as anyone (the killer's walking animation might be the only thing about the chapter that excites me, lol, I might buy it if you could play killer in third person), but this just seems a bit transparent, and I'm not sure how much it works for a killer, who the killer player almost never sees in-game. It's certainly not enough to carry the chapter as is.
Trickster at least isn't a terrible killer.
The sun is coming up tomorrow, isn't it? Feng getting more cosmetics is as much a sure thing, regardless of anything else.
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They buff a lot of her kit when she comes live. However, it will not solve the issue that she is - once again - a boring Shift+W Killer
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Keep in mind their response to the lackluster reception to Knight was 1 tweet and all it said was
"Our recent release didn't go as smoothly as we hoped, here's some free stuff"
They've already started this kind of """damage control""" by doing their free BP newsletter thing whatever it is.
I highly doubt they will respond to the criticism. Not all of it is valid, I will agree but a LOT of it is.
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To be honest I don't know what you and others would even want to hear outside of them just canceling the chapter altogether, which would never happen because it is bad from a business perspective to just throw away months of work just because ppl who played a beta version of the chapter didn't like it. They don't have the time to completely change the killer's look and her power or her perks and nothing they say is going to change the fact people don't like her or anything. If I was in BHVR place I would just try savage the killer by buffing her and her perks. That is about all they really can do in the time frame they have and if the chapter flops then it flops. You then count that as a loss and keep moving forward as a dev.
The game isn't going to die for having a bad chapter or two so people need to calm down. If you do not like this chapter then don't buy it and wait till the anniversary chapter which Im pretty sure be a great chapter since the past anniversary chapters have been. They don't need to make an official response just because people don't like the killer or the perks and the game isn't going to magically die when this chapter is released.
Anyway, you and others are not entitled to an official response, and even if they did give you one it wouldn't be enough anyway. A lot of you have already made up your mind that you don't like this chapter for one reason or another. It's either "she is not a robot", "She is too sexy to be a killer", "Her perks are bad", "She boring to play", and so on. Outside the complaints about her power and gameplay, most of these are just silly entitled complaints. This isn't the first chapter the perks have been bad, her design is fine for the game, and it's on you if you thought you were promised some robot killer. The only valid complaints are the ones about her how weak she is right now and that can easily be fixed with buffs. I will end this with one more thing: Every killer doesn't have to be for you. If you don't like how a killer plays or how they look then don't play them, don't buy them. That is your power as a consumer. I personally hate nurse and billy but I never once complained about them not being for me. I just simply don't play them. If there was a paid killer I didn't like then I won't buy them either.
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I did see today a post on Twitter and Facebook that shows a video of the devs boasting about the design of the skull merchant. The fact that this coincides after so much backlash (not just from the public but their own fog whisperers) is obviously more than just a coincidence.
But I do find it interesting that instead of addressing everyone's concerns, they instead make a PR move to gloss over all the bad press.
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Trickster at least isn't a terrible killer.
On PC. Unfortunately, on console he's pretty much unplayable. Which makes me sad because I love that bat twirl (I love Wesker's knife flip, too). I'd play Trickster as an M1 killer with no knives it were possible to have him walk at normal speed by sacrificing his power. 😢
I'm not sure how much it works for a killer, who the killer player almost never sees in-game
My guess is that's why there are also two attractive survivors, who the survivor players do see in-game. Unless Thalita's backside gets nerfed, Pyramid Head will be jealous. If BHVR is no longer shapely-butt-a-phobic, it'd be nice if they could go back and adjust Yui: I love her, but she looks abnormally flat in every pair of pants.
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They have a monopoly on the genre. They have no incentive to do anything creative!
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Ok? It's just an expression.
Feel free to not buy a chapter because you don't personally like it. If the sales are poor Bhvr may make additional changes in hopes of enticing more sales. But they don't need to respond and say they're sorry because a good chunk of the player base takes this game way too seriously and are personally offended by everything Bhvr does.
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They did respond.
They loudly proclaimed that it is AWESOME and you LOVE it.
They got some people to assist in the assertions.
Orwell, is feeling very smug in his grave.
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My guy, it's a video game.
If people say they like it, Occam's razor indicates they like it, not that they were paid by the company to say so or anything. Is it so insane to consider that people might just have different opinions to you?
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Screenshots from that video were leaked before the PTB was released, so it is just a coincidence. That video was filmed before they saw any reactions to the chapter. And there's nothing wrong with being proud of your work, even if it's not the most well recieved.
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They should, but they won't, because money is everything.
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Yes. Yui's concave butt is a crime; you'd think someone so fit/muscular wouldn't have completely skipped her glutes.
She doesn't need a big ol' donkey, that wouldn't be right. But if she falls she's breaking her tailbone.
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I did not say or imply anyone was paid. They presented the opinion they wanted the public to have about their product.
How is it contentious to imply that the company that financially invested in a product would cultivate a positive opinion about the product to drive sales?
And what does this have to do with Occam?
I think it is simpler to assume motive from the entity invested in the product. I mean, its not a conspiracy, its common sense. Its the status quo. Hence my Orwell crack.
PTB forum shows the actual public sentiment around this product.
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Then who are you referring to? The only people who'd have an investment in following BHVR's wanted response would be the Fog Whisperers, and they seem pretty split on it from what I've seen.
Since they aren't giving the same response, and nobody else is under any influence, that just leaves the simplest outcome: that anyone commenting positively is doing so because they feel positively about it.
The PTB forum does not show the actual public sentiment about this product. It shows this forum's sentiment around the product. This forum is not the entire playerbase, and let's face it, this is where people mostly go to complain to begin with. Besides, this forum's opinion is as split as any other area, there are people here defending the chapter.
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I am referring to Behavior, themselves. They released a promo video to explain the chapter. They told us how to feel about the design and use of the killer.
The public responded with some other ideas, before the video was released based on PTB testing.
Reading over the PTB forums and Youtube the general response has been negative, for various reasons.
I suppose, it being an internet space, you can find someone to support any point of view. Weather or not they actually enjoy the product on its various levels, I don't know or care.
And as an aside Fog Whispers, as far as I understand the program(similar to EA game changers) are paid, via influence over development and clout. Both are valuable commodities and allow the payer to assert pressure.
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There isn't really anything they can say that will satisfy people. All they can do is make adjustments before it goes live and hope they improve things.
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Sure, they released their little behind the scenes thing to talk about the design and show off the work they're proud of, but the debate had started before that was even posted. Clearly the reception was mixed before BHVR posted anything at all, and so clearly the people who like this chapter aren't swayed by official comments one way or another, they just actually like the chapter.
So... what's your point, exactly? That releasing a BTS video for a mixed-reception chapter is Orwellian? That the people who like the chapter should be discarded for thus-far-unstated reasons?
I'm being sincere, I'm not following what point you're making here. If it's not that BHVR are influencing people to comment positively where they wouldn't otherwise, what is it?
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I didn't see a mixed reaction, I saw mostly negative.
No one's opinions should be discarded. They should all be weighed equally and individually. I see the balance to lean toward negative on this chapter.
The Orwell reference concerns Behavior telling the audience what to think about their work instead of reading and absorbing what the audience said and deciding how to respond in the product expression realm.
Other people clearly(you're here) support the chapter, this is acknowledged. I believe they ignored the criticism of the chapter across all its levels and just went right ahead and said:
"STFU and enjoy."
"Also, she'll be in a bikini next month."
I don't care about any of the above. I was just pointing out that they told people what they should think, which is the norm today, instead of letting the work stand on its own.
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Okay, but you do understand they're not actually telling people what to think about the chapter, right? It's just a little BTS video that was absolutely filmed ahead of time and was just released on schedule like the rest of their promotional material.
Like, at most, you could make a passing comment about it ending up being poorly timed on a purely accidental level, but it is literally just regular ass promotion. A little behind the scenes to interest people who like that kind of thing and shed some light on their design process.
This wasn't a response to the backlash. If it is, I have to commend BHVR on how quickly they filmed and edited it, frankly. If you expect a response from them, I'll refer you up to my first comment here: What could they possibly say that isn't "we're not releasing this" to make everyone happy?
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I feel like the main issue with her perks are they are highly situational to the point that her synergy would require a whole build. The only perk I even like is the obsession perk because it will be good with Rancor, Remember Me, and No Way Out.
Even more so after they just gutted Eruption so badly that it most likely will go from 40% (not accurate but for the argument we’ll say 40%) to maybe 6% or lower. So killers hoped for perks that can at least help sup the hole in the meta. That being a decent slow down with some chase. We got two pretty meh perks and one that is so bad that people are calling it the No Mither of killer perks.
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If you don’t like the new chapter, just don’t buy it
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They got tons of feedback about every part of the chapter. From her lore, her visuals and sound design all the way to her power people have explained their issues with the Skull Merchant. Sometimes we, as a community, are very passionate and come across as harsh when voicing our oppinions but that is because we care and we want this game and BHVR to do good. We all know that the devs can do way better than this mess of a chapter and that is why there is so much critique.
BHVR have never been the best at communication but how hard can it be to say something like: "We have gathered a lot of feedback and are currently looking into it. You can expect some changes to X in the near future." ?
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I mean what do you expect....look how as a community we came up with good ways to adjust Eruption to make it a better perk for both sides to make everyone happy but then all of a sudden BHVR brings out the Nuked version of it.....
As a community we can voice our concerns make suggestions but at the end of the day they can and will ignore us to go with what they think is the right way to go. Does that work....yes sometimes it does with no backlash but other times no it fails miserably.
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Agreed. I wasn't arguing against that at all. I just said that much of our feedback is voiced rather passionate.
When that whole cheater problem peaked and they finally told us their plans to fight it I really thought they learned that they need to communicate better. It seems I was mistaken. Clearly, they still try to avoid uncomfortable discussions.
The Eruption rework is hardly one of their brightest moments. There was enough feedback to gather that people didn't like the Incapacited status effect, so I'm absolutely fine with that being removed. However, their poor excuse for nerfing the regress and adding a new, pointless, slugging incentivising effect is what I don't like. At least have the guts to admit that you killed the perk instead of pretending that it's still useful or even good. That or design different versions, let us test them and then decide which one gets to stay.
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I think the release was despite of the backlash. A deliberate attempt to control the narrative. And yes, I know they had that ready to go.
They could also have slapped together a response video outlining their revision pipeline and showcased the new chapter going through it. I feel that would have been well recieved.
"What could they possibly say that isn't "we're not releasing this" to make everyone happy?"
" We as a company appreciate your dedication to our product, and although we will release this chapter as is, we will commit to doing our best to bringing it up to the communities expectations in future patches."
Something like that would likely bring good will.
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If this is the most backlash the game has ever received the developers deserve a massive round of praise.
Weak killer: fixable and you don't have to touch the killer if it isn't
Bad aesthetic: debatable, I've seen the cosmetics that are popular
Bad lore: an annoyance, but if this is the worst lore they've written after 61? total characters, good on them
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I'll echo some other posts that the idea of this being backlash is a bit weird. Saying you aren't interested in the chapter, sure. The reason they aren't going to respond is really soon they are going to have solid data on how well it sells/is played. They'll care far more about that.
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But the backlash isn't weird though....unless you count the folks that are disliking this chapter because "Its not a robot Killer" then yes I agree.
But many dislike it because the killer's power is extremely weak and she is a basic M1 Killer I'm a era where M1 Killers are utter jokes unless they have something to help in chases. Her zoning potential is extremely limited combined with the fact Survivors can SEE the zone the Drones cover makes them a non threat as every survivor I seen run around the zone to avoid the drones.
Her overall design looks more like something out of Apex or Fortnite and that bothers a lot of people....at least The Trickster has more of a DbD feel, but Skull Merchant is too clean to be chosen by The Entity.
Her Lore is full of plot holes and is very random at times and I love reading the Lore of the Characters
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There's not much they can really do though, is there? They can try and buff the killer a bit before release but besides that they're not gonna completely scrap and redo an entire chapter, they've gotta just push on with it and then focus on the next one.
Hopefully they've learnt some lessons on what not to do for future releases but what realistically are you expecting them to do? Say "Sorry that people don't like this chapter, oh well?"
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Ummm refer to my post talking about Eruption a few responses above......they haven't and probably never will because of the reasoning I gave above.
BHVR will do what THEY think is right for THEIR game. Sometimes it will work out and sometimes it's the worst idea ever. But as the people getting the privilege to play the game we have to live with BHVR's choices and hope they eventually listen to the people from time to time.
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Obviously not?
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Even just recognition of it would help.
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Right, but again, recognition of what?
The fact that some people just don't like it? That'd be a really weird thing to make an official comment on.
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The response to the PTB will be its official release.
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