General Discussions
General Discussions
Why won't BHVR provide full statistics?
Why don't they?
Is it enough to just cherry pick some stats and throw them at us?
What are the pick rates for killers at certain MMRs?
What are the hook rates per kill at various MMRs?
What about perk usage at various MMRs?
Why isn't such information readily accessible?
Can't they just make an API to access the data and have the community do the rest of the work? We already do the work with certain sites that allow you to track your games and the games of others who opt in.
Is it this foundationally difficult or expensive to do?
Comments
-
Yeah sometimes it takes a year or more to get stats, I don't understand why
2 -
because this will convince killers at a certain mmr to leave once and for all the game, that's why... I'm talking for experience: playing killer at high mmr is MISERABLE, especially if you don't have the right killers (and most of the times i play with the weakest killers with mediocre addons so you can imagine what i must endure on a daily basis) and you are aganist sweaty SWF squads. If you are lucky aganist those squads you'll do only 3 hooks before all the gens wiil be completed. Sometimes you can get more hooks in the endgame, so if you look at the stats of hooks par game well, those aren't truthful regarding how it went a match... i can tell you a personal anedocte: once i was aganist a premade quite souspitious since they did all gens in so few time that i barely did a 2nd hook, but that match ended in a 4k due to the noed that i had and their excessive confidence/arrogance (for the stats i overperformed so killers need to be nerfed i guess /s)... all this teach us that stats aren't a thing that should be considered to be taken into balancing the game (or at least not a primary thing to consider) because you can play well your cards and win by camping a survivor that was catched before the last gen pop and keep downing the survivors, but again, these downs/hooks aren't made because of you, but because of their altruism (those groups usually want at all costs a 4 escape and this is their only weak point)
18 -
Monthly statistics would be pretty fun I'd say.
3 -
It really isn't that bad.
Also, high MMR isn't really a thing.
22 -
it isn't that bad you say uh... try to play as a trapper aganist a well coordinated premade... it's impossible to get something done with your power unless you (how courious that everything will be reduced to the same 2 kind of gameplay in order to get something done) camp a hooked survivor and trap everything near the hook or tunnel to death someone (in this istance camping is a lot better since the trapper basekit is more suited for that kind of gameplay).
5 -
It's shady that they don't show the escape rates of 3 and 4 man SWFs at high MMR. They only make vague allusions to the fact that they escape more than solos
9 -
Then let's ask BHVR to show it, both MMR numbers and actual statistics.
It'd be fun really.
8 -
I've been asking them to show MMR since they first debuted the system.
I'm competitive as #########. I want to know exactly where I stand compared to others.
6 -
"It's bad playing a historically weak Killer who doesn't do well against SWF's into a 4-man SWF"
Uh....yeah, if you play a weak Killer into their worst-case scenario and refuse to use optimal tactics, you should lose. You are choosing to play Trapper. You are choosing not to tunnel. You are choosing not to camp.
This isn't a "Playing Killer at high MMR is terrible" this is, "I don't want to play optimally to win against other people who are also playing optimally."
15 -
i can assure you that even if that was the case things won't change much (maybe instead of a single hook you'll get 3 or 4)... plus it's not normal being FORCED to play only 2 killers in order to have a chance aganist those groups... ffs we have a lot of killers, dbd is fun for the variety, if devs erase even this aspect of the game then they shouldn't ask themself why people won't ever consider playing killer
1 -
You can play pretty much any Killer and do fine with them.
Provided you actually try
7 -
because their statistics don't include games with DCs.
They cherry pick games, because 99% of the time survivors can't handle being downed/hooked first.
I'd love to see them doing something with the people who constantly DC when the game isn't going their way and just THEN provide us with clear stats
5 -
With casual people you can win even addonless i don't have troubles to admit this, but when aganist people that know how to play it's the inverse situation: most of the times even the strongest builds aren't enough to keep up the pace, you are forced only to use 2 killers, and since we were talking about HIGH mmr...
1 -
The gigachad tries to prove point by using extremes.
i went into a match as survivor with 2 yellow perks and i lost against a nurse on midwich ######### this game is LITERALLY unplayable for survivor i can't believe these killer biased devs would have done this
6 -
f they released the full stats, I'm sure we will see some "surprising" info.
For instance, 60% kill rate across all killers?
Well, maybe there's an average of 4.5 hooks before the first kill meaning someone got tunneled out early.
Or maybe, in 5% of games someone destroys themselves on their first hook. This means that that game is effectively ruined, leading to an easy 3k or 4k.
Maybe in 10% of games overall at least one person lets themselves die on hook, further inflating the kill rate. Having someone blow themselves up on hook at 3 gens can very easily cost survivors the game.
I do think the kill rate and thusly the targeted kill rate is inflated. This is based on pure speculation and anecdotal evidence of course. because they won't give us stats.
As a Killer (any killer, really) if you are honestly trying to kill at LEAST one person, you can probably do so 95% of the time. Tunnel someone out, camp, slug, be mean, etc... It's very rare to try and go for a kill and not get AT least 1. Thusly, the floor is most likely around 1 kill.
If you include the other scenarios mentioned above with 3-4Ks occurring when they shouldn't if it was an actual competitive game we can have an inflated kill rate. That is, a kill rate that isn't representative of actual competitive play and include people memeing around which has a 4x likelihood occurring for survivors since there are 4 of them in a match.
We need the hook stats, perk stats, survival stats, mmr stats, swf stats, killer stats, etc... to better analyze the game. Leaving it to be done by BHvR isn't getting much accomplished. We had the meta shake up, and then that's it. I thought they were gonna start turning things around but after seeing the Eruption changes, Dead Hard changes, map changes, newest killer, more exhaustion perks, emphasis on the gen kick meta, etc... it seems like they stopped making changes.
We can help. Give us the stats. We will do the analysis for you. You can make up your mind BHvR. Right now, theres no way you can convince me that half the killer roster is viable in a competitive setting. Not professional level gameplay, but people who are trying to win and are in comms with each other. Changes must be made, especially now that we have the much needed UI changes.
6 -
You're not adding anything useful by being entitled your whole point started with: "high mmr blah blah blah" how do you even know you're at high mmr, like high mmr in itself isn't even a thing
2 -
1 you were playing aganist the only killer that can virtually erasing any kind of defenses that survivors have (except endurance). If you went back in my post history i stated various times that this killer needed a complete rework due to her power and that the only time she was needed it was aganist full premades...
2 you were playing in a map where she's a lot more deadly than usual since she can move freely without the problem of using the stairs
3 unless you are a pro and want to challenge your skill, it's pointless going in matches with only 2 perks (even more in that case since they were yellow)
4 judging by the last thing that you wrote i guess that you aren't in the HIGH mmr bracket, nor you tried to play killer aganist those kind of people
0 -
To answer the OP: because when the stats show that the game is way more balanced than people say, all the 'woe is me' killers come crawling out of the woodwork to discredit them.
4 -
then they should show the stats and everyone can shut up. just make the api and be done with it. idk why they haven't done this in the nearly 7 years this game has been around.
2 -
There is no such thing as high MMR.
It's not real, you'd probably do better in your matches if you didn't attribute your losses to "high mmr is unfair"
5 -
Agreed...
2 -
While i would sometimes also like to have more detailed stats. The truth is simply, that people would draw (false) conclusions from them.
For example, i saw a streamer playing Bubba who struggled playing a streamer SWF squad. But ended up getting a 4k, not because he played better, but because they were to cocky. Comments were full of "yeah he got 4k so he shouldn´t complain". Which is exactly what i would expect as answers to more stats.
1 -
but there are op and trash killers. the stats will prove this. it is inevitable that there will be top killers in the normal distribution.
0 -
Yes. Those are the definitions of OP and weakness. It's what the player can do with them.
Maybe if the balance is that bad that people would quit if BHvR released the full stats they should fix the balance issues. Instead of sweeping everything under a rug.
1 -
Probably because whenever they release stats and ask people not to draw conclusions from them, they do it anyways. It does not help the community in constructive discussions but it just helps people support whatever narrative they have of the game.
0 -
i never said there would be a mass exodus.....
0 -
One example, since I just saw it mentioned earlier, is the '75% of survivors used DH' old chestnut. The stats actually showed 75% of *high* MMR (talking the top 5% of players) used DH. Then it was 40% for mid-MMR (the largest group), then 20% for low MMR. But everyone still flings around that it was 75% of all survivors.
0 -
One word.
Priorities.
There are so many other things bHVR rather work on with this game.
0 -
I think the reason why is BHVR knows their playerbase very well. If you look at even more than half of the postst on the forums alone, it will tell you what type of players they are dealing with. They're witholding such stats probably for a very good reason.
They already indugle everyone where and when they see fit.
Side-note: there is not really such a thing as high-MMR, that's you assuming that the match-making always works, which it doesn't, so you're often mixed with a group of people with different skillset(s) and hours. Once in a blue moon you'll be matched with your equals.
4 -
simple: because here people do gens and don't run aroud like headless chickens, because here people KNOW how to loop and last for more than 20 seconds in a chase, because here people use the strongest items at their disposal, because here people use the SAME DAMN CURSED PERKS EVERY BLOODY MATCH, that's how i know that i'm in high mmr
1 -
like you did when it's something related to the survivors i guess
0 -
this is BS otherwise i wouldn't have troubles to find matches suited for my usual gamestyle (brown addons and meme builds), not to mention that THE DEVS themselves stated that mmr exist
1 -
so if for you a trapper can deal with those squads then tell me: how did you counter a team with a survivor who follow you everytime at safe distance in order to deactivate EVERY SINGLE TRAP that you put on your way? how did you counter the fact that you are a pure m1 killer without your traps due to the previous point that i stated? how did you counter the fact that you waste more time putting down your traps than chasing someone? that's right, you CAN'T... said this i won't ever consider what will you say afterwards since you are saying dumb things that even a newcomer to the game can easily understand
0 -
anyway, we are derailling from the main topic... i'm curious as well for those specific stats... the right question is: WHY they won't release those data?
0 -
This ^.
This is why the only relevant stats I’d want to see are only hooks made by the time the gates are powered, not after, AND hooks, not hook stages achieved through camping. This would give us a completely different view of the game than all these flawed kill rates that aren’t representative of the games balance.
1 -
They won't release or provide us with complete statistics b/c
- it'd cause peope to get upset, start bashing the devs or the game's state
- it'd show everyone the full picture, which is most likely negative/not good
- if they do, they can't cater and select specific statistics anymore that fit their narrative to push
So yea, doubt that'll ever happen sadly.
5 -
I will keep it real with you, that's mega copium. You're probably just not as good as you think.
MMR is real. High MMR, as you are meaning it, is not.
4 -
If there were actual high MMR matches then the queues would be insufferable. Witness how Dowsey took up to 45 minutes to find a game when MMR was brought in initially. To make queues bearable the softcap was lowered to 1600 MMR with a 200 point variance if queue times got too long.
That's why there is no high MMR. We don't know what percentage of the playerbase is at 1600 MMR+ but, as most large inclusive groups have roughly 30 to 40% of their players at 1600 or up, I'm assuming that's similar here. 35% of the playerbase, as an example, is not defined to me as high MMR. It doesn't exist.
You might be at the soft cap or over; it's not a really exclusive group. If Killers start at 1100 MMR they can probably camp first down for a few hundred point rise. If you're saying you run into SWF death squads all the time what could easily be happening is that you're at the soft cap or a bit above it and many of the survivors past the soft cap are maybe at 1700 or 1800. Those would be really tough games for someone at 1600.
A soft cap exists. A significant amount of Killers are probably at the soft cap. Very few people are at high MMR but they can be matched with anyone at the soft cap to keep queue times down since there aren't enough people at high MMR to match with them and have tolerable queues. That's why high MMR doesn’t exist; if anyone is at high MMR in a match its normally only one side.
3 -
Did you just say he deserves to lose because he chose to play trapper against a 4 man?
3 -
Because it would show what we know already
- High mmr is miserable
- only a few killers are viable at high mmr
- swf is miserable to vs
- game is becoming stale - same thing over and over. Their genuis plan is to do massive reworks, but all that does is replace the same old thing for new same old things. People ( especially in MMR ) will always use the best perks / loadouts
- Map offerings need to be removed
3 -
Stats would show how busted a perk DH outside of babyranks is and had its continued existence couldn't be rationalised by any means but one: BHVR can't effort to take away survivors favorite toy, so killers must continue to suffer :V
4 -
If you take a weak Killer, use off-meta perks, refuse to use optimal strategies and you put that Killer against an optimal 4-man? Yes, you deserve to lose that game.
4 -
Yeah let's play the weakest possible killers against survivors that play with the best loadout possible, you see where your argument is flawed? Those who really want to win are going to. If you want to win as killer play a killer with a strong power and loadout on the survivor side a SWF with a strong loadout. By playing trapper you are already going to play with a weak power so what's your point? That weak killers should be buffed? I agree but that doesn't mean that killer is only possible because of altruism. I'm a Billy main and whenever I get sent on Eyrie I know I will get 5 hook stages maximum but you know that's what happens when you play on a map that makes your power less useful. I just accepted the fact that Billy is just not amongst the strongest powers in the game so it would be sily if every game would be a walk in the park for me.
4 -
He did. Rightfully so. That would be like if you complain as survivor if you run a meme build in soloQ and then complain that the Nurse on Midwich stomped you and you didn't escape. If you want to win you need to do it properly. If you play off-meta perks/killers just accept the fact that you don't win if the other side is going to tryhard.
2 -
Because there’s no reason for them to. It’s not going to make more people play the game if they do release the stats, and there won’t be people quitting the game if they don’t release the stats. It’s only downside for them if they release the stats - it will take time and effort, and they’ll get a lot of criticism from the community when we see the real data.
0 -
High MMR is a myth. Once you reached the MMR softcap you can vs anyone above it. So as the killer at top MMR you can literally vs survivors who just reached the MMR softcap.
Not every SWF is a comp deathsquad that is playing like their lives depend on it.
If you want to win you are always going to bring the best perks. I mean you literally stated that only a few killers are viable at your MMR so you probably play those killers because youwant to win. So it's only fair if survivors do the same. The only way to tackly a stale meta is to make more perks strong so you have more variety. If you just kill meta perks it will always be stale.
I agree on your map offerings argument. They are not healthy for the game.
0 -
Weren't you arguing the opposite in the DH thread?
That because streamers are the top 2% or w/e the data gained from their matches aren't representative of the population.
Yet here you say there is no high MMR, queue times are prioritized, and thusly these streamers can face a wide berth of skill levels. So I don't understand your point. How can it be both?
0 -
Perks and strategies only help so much. Every player is still limited by the killer they play. Some killers are so awful that even if a skilled player did use optimal perks and strats they would still be at a major disadvantage.
What is the point you are trying to make? There are bad killers? You guys are in agreement with each other.
0 -
So choosing to play one of the killers in the game means you deserve to lose now huh? I have no idea what mental gymnastics you have to do to come to that conclusion but wow is that absurd
5 -
It's the exact mentality that leads to a stale meta and seeing the same killers over and over again.
5
