remove losing pips!
once again i had so much fun in a match NOT that i got face camped at 0 hooks and 0 gens. therefore i have lost a pip. why is losing pips a mechanic in the game?! it doesn't serve any purpose at all! ranks have been disabled leaving grades the only way to "climb up in ranks"! grades aren't connected to match making though unlike ranks have been before. so why is this mechanic still in the game?! losing pips has NO value! remove this stupid mechanic already!
the following situations will make you lose a pip:
- dc (on purpose, due to power outage, due to internet connection loss, due to blue/black screen, dbd errors)
- face camping killer
- tunneling killer
- your teammates being selfish
- your teammates are trolling
- trying to do archive/tome challenges
so why is losing pips in dbd still a thing? this should have been a thing from the past the moment ranks were removed and changed into grades! there is valide reason why losing pips is still in the game and i'm really getting frustrated, annoyed and angry that this is not addressed at all! i can't count how many support tickets i have already created getting this problem solved, but behavior just seems to ignore this problem! if i'm not a content creator with millions of subscribers i won't be heard by the devs. nothing is done to prevent this from happening! do i have to be a fog whisperer or twitch streamer to be heard?
it's no fun being face camped from 0 hooks to death hanging there for 3 minutes without being able to do anything at all in that match just because the devs don't feel the need changing this circumstance! if you at least removed losing pips in a trial (which have no sense at all) we could finally just dc and get into the next game! nothing is done about tunneling and face camping. it seems like things are only changed if i'm a content creator, fog whisperer or throw enough money at behavior!
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Either that or make pipping easier for survivors
Getting my monthly Iri 1 on killer basically just requires me to have a pulse. Getting it on survivor would probably require me to get in a really sweaty team.
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it's in fact easier on killer, but it's still not easy. you need weak survivors, no sweaty swfs etc. for survivor you simply just need an idiot of a killer who face camps and/or tunnels you. i have just played 6 hours survivor today which felt like 100 matches and i have made 0 progress on grades. i got a depip, a depip, a depip, another depip, a depip and oh did i forget to say depip? it's no fun playing this game at all anymore especially when the devs just ignore crucial things like this or allow players to abuse game mechanics like face camping and tunneling.
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Just slap on nurse and you'll be iri 1 in no time
In contrast it's much harder to get a 4-man swf of good players together.
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well since i'm nowhere good with nurse that would be hard and i feel like i'm getting 4 man swfs like 90 % of my matches.
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well you of course get at least 0 pips or 1 pip as survivor if nothing of the things listed above in my comment happened. if you get tunneled or even face camped 1st hook one minute into the game you will not even get a neutral outcome, but rather lose a pip. so you are punished for toxic behavior of that killer. it's already frustrating enough being face camped 1st hook or tunneled all game long without the ability to do much about it. some killers don't even care if you have protection like ds or off the record. they will just shred through your protection and you're done for anyways. as killer you really have to stand around afk in order to just get a neutral pip because you get points for hitting survivors, finding/chasing survivors, kicking generators, closing the hatch, snuffing totems, using your power and many other things whereas as survivor you can basically just heal, repair gens or get chased and only one at a time.
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well if you go nice on survivors just because somebody had a dc you will get less points obviously. i don't count this into consideration for the problem. i guess i have only depipped once in all the years of playing dbd as a killer and i play fair in 99,9 % of my matches. if survivors tried to ######### me up i made the match more tense though.
you can still play normally after somebody dc'd. survivors will make points if they aren't chased. either they heal or repair generators, but if you face camped one of the three remaining survivors for example after someobody dc'd that camped survivor obviously would depip and you would gain less points, too. if you rly wanted to play nice in such a situation you could still farm points by showing these survivors you won't kill them by hitting the gen for example. they repair the generator a bit and then you kick it again. you let them stun you and you break the pallet. you can still play nice while hooking everybody remaining twice without killing them and still make enough points to get a pip or even two.
on the survivor side though you depend on the attitude of the killer. if you didn't let the survivors farm some points after they had to deal with a dc they will most likely depip. so the next time you want to go nice on survivors and experienced a dc you can do signalize these survivors that you will let them farm and you farm yourself. then you won't depip even if you go nice on them.
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i have made this statement because of your previous statement that you got a depip because somebody dc'd and you played nice against the remaining survivors. that's the reason why i have stated this, but whatever...that's not important and yes you "shouldn't" have to farm to avoid depipping, but behavior seems to only leave this as an option and that sucks!
well it's good that you can climb up enough and that you have less bad experiences in dbd. lucky you! we can definitely agree on losing pips being a problem though i guess and no i'm not confused about black pipping (neutral pips) and losing pips (-1 pip)!
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when will behavior finally start doing something about this ######### problem?! how many more screenshots of this problem do i have to post until they finally take action fixing this?!
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I would say keep depipping only for dc's and suicides tho this might be hard to implement so eh
This is especially because the penalty starts at 30 seconds so ther3s less keeping them in a match they don't like
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It's odd. I find, as a killer, if I'm very active but still lose I can still get a pip. Then I have a run of 3k games, usually showing mercy to the last survivor, and nothing happens. No pip, no de-pip. Killer is obviously easier to rank up, but the way it decides it is just mystifying.
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That's because to get pips you have to have the match run a while, not kill them all immediately
You may think this is stupid bit it's also more healthy and lore accurate since the entity does not want you to just kill them quick but to make them "suffer"
The easiest is probably to go for 8 hooks, it keeps your mmr low because nobody dies, allows the survivors to pip, AND gives you a pip yourself
There's really no "win" or "lose", this isn't an export no matter how hard it tries to be
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Its not a bug, it's intended
But I suppose if BHVR were to reply they would say..
"Git gud"
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I'm assuming you did many things wrong here
However, going "nice" wasn't one of them
You said you only hooked everyone once, you should've 2 hooked everyone then proceeded to slug as much as possible, this helps get your chaser and some in devout/malicious emblem
Then just try to drag the match out some with as much generators incomplete as possible
Instead of committing to a chase the whole time just hit them asap and slug
Of course 1 hook suicide and/or DC and this plan goes down the drain
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Today has been a prime reminder of why survivor freaking sucks. 9/10 matches I get teammates who won't participate. They do nothing but crouch around. They hide in lockers, even getting three crows, and the killer ignores them. I had a Kate who camped an exit gate from the beginning of the match, just kept getting in and out of lockers to avoid AFK crows. Lots of sandbagging. I dodge any lobby with a Leon, now, because every single one today has been a troll; the worst one dropped pallets on teammates to make sure they went down, and the killer rewarded him with the hatch at the end. The number of times I've died with over 20k BP while the remaining survivors in the match had 5k BP is soul-crushing.
I wish survivors would stop playing for the hatch from the moment the match starts. So many do that. Or they're just breezing through matches by letting everyone else do the gens and then waltzing out the exit gates. What the hell can I do when my friend dies and we see that one survivor has three birds and another (with Left Behind) is doing nothing but crouching around in bushes? What magic am I supposed to perform to eek out a black pip?
Why do so many survivors queue up to do literally nothing?
I'm exhausted. Survivors make playing survivor miserable. If I could team up with bots instead of people, I would.
This is why I have so much trouble pipping up. Every time I get one pip away it's like the game knows and it sticks me in match after match after match with non-participatory players. If BHVR doubled or even tripled the number of pips necessary but got rid of de-pipping, I'd be able to rich Iri 1. That's how bad this is.
Whatever, de-pipping worked: I'm fully demotivated. Now I'm playing zombie-killer Nemmie for the double XP and staying far away from survivors. (I can't pip up on the Switch as killer. Even without de-pipping I probably wouldn't reach Iri 1. It'd be nice to reach Silver or Gold, though. My Switch killer ends every reset at the bottom of Bronze.)
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i don't care if it's a bug or not. behavior has to fix this! there is no way around and more importantly it doesn't even serve a purpose! it maybe had a purpose when there were still ranks who defined who you get paired with even though that didn't even work at all, but now it has no sense at all. behavior should remove this asap, but they don't care. that's the sad situation! behavior does what they think is cool and don't change the things the community wants/need or things that have to be changed. it's extremely frustrating to see that nothing is done at all. nothing is done about face camping or tunneling and nothing is done about losing pips while you get face camped, tunneled or due a dc or whatever even when it's not your fault. i have just lost a pip in a match as killer because i had my game froze for whatever reason. i just dropped down a lawnmower on coldwind and my game froze. i was stuck in an endless loop of audio and visual bug. the worst part though was that i was punished for an error behavior caused! what did i lose the pip for? for behavior not coding their game right and resulting in me having a bug?! ######### remove losing pips already!
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yeah i can totally relate to that. 9/10 matches i play are exactly like that and it feels like i'm the only person still playing the game like it's supposed to be played. either i'm getting face camped, tunneled or i have to deal with teammates intentionally throwing by doing nothing or sabotaging the game in any other way. it's totally frustrating and the most annoying part about it is that you personally get punished for the mistakes or toxic behavior of other people! you are the person losing a pip for that! it's total bullshit and behavior has to fix this asap, but they won't do because they don't care about their community!
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If losing a rank is impossible no matter how many -1's you get, losing pips serve no purpose other than to upset the people playing.
It should not be a thing.
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You could always pretend you got a pip every game and it would have a similar impact to losing one.
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Two things should give you a de-pip, and only these two things: DC-ing and afk-ing for prolonged periods of time (collecting three crows). Everything else is just the game showing a middle finger to the players.
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I agree, I hate depips too
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"Skill issue"
-BHVR
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This just makes me nostalgic for pip-based match-making.
Pips seem meaningless now, but the emblem system used to be how match-making was done. The upside was that survivors who recognized teamplay as important would easily move into purple ranks+. The downside was that occasionally we would get a "boosted" teammate.
So BHVR switched to an MMR system that was not enjoyed for several months, and it has been revised a few times. Now people are questioning why they de-pip.
Back when it was ranks you could lose overall progress too. So a lot about grades can change since they mostly imply how much you play in a given month and how active you are in the match.
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I don't think people are confused why De-pipping was a thing so much as why it's still a thing now.
It just serves no purpose anymore.
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Agreed, it needs to go. I'm also tired od depipping because someone DC's etc.
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not totally! u can also get a dc due to a bug in the game, your internet dies, you got a power outage or windows blue/black screen or whatever. a dc doesn't equal a dc. you would still be punished if it wasn't ur fault which happend to me yesterday btw. when i dropped down a lawnmower on coldwind farm and my game froze for whatever reason. i could only alt + f4 out of the game while i still had the game sound with the constant chase music. in result i got a depip. for what reason did i get a depip? there was no other way to solve this bug in the game, but to alt + f4 (dc) out of the game.
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that's what bhvr seemingly says with their own words yeah.
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yes and no. i have played for several years and as survivor the ranking system "mostly" worked to pair me with equal ranks, but when i played killer i mostly only got rank 1 sweaty survivors even if i wasn't good with that killer. so it wasn't pleasant at all and no good match making. the current match making is at least somewhat better, but still needs some tweaks in my opinion. losing pips doesn't server any purpose anymore though and yeah bhvr has to finally address/fix this.
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yeah it's totally frustrating...especially if u worked your ass off doing gens, cleansing hexes, unhook survivors and heal multiple survivors just to see that one person standing in a corner, hiding in a locker the whole game long or unhooking you right in front of the killer etc. on top of that it's YOU who gets punished for their actions because everybody in that match will likely depip because the killer easily performs better than that. it's totally annoying and this has to be taken out asap!
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It's about striking the right balance as pips serve two purpsoes. First, to reward time spent in game. Gaining pips is supposed to reflect time invested into the game (as stated by BHVR). So in a way "time spent playing = pips". However, with how many things related to match-participation (or lack thereof) that determine whether you pip or not being out of your control the bare minimum should be that "time spent playing = - pips" definitely isn't a thing. In respect to the first purpose you are right, being disconnectd due to the game crashing etc. should not result into a depip because you still spent time playing and intended to continue playing. - But then comes the second purpose of de-pipping: to punish behaviour that is detrimental to game health by disturbing the natural flow of the match. AFK-ing and DC-ing are the two ways this can happen that are not contained in the game mechanics (as opposed to e.g. taking chances and failing skillchecks on hook. That is part of the game mechanic). I would be all for it if the game could tell if you pressed alt f4 because the game got stuck/bugged/whatever, if you PC crashed, there was a power outage or your wifi died - but alas, the game is not able to tell. It only knows you lost the connection - for whatever reason - in the middle of the match, preventing it from playing out in the intended way. This result is what leads to the depip. Arguably, making it less appealing to disturb the match via DCing/AFKing by keeping the depips is a reasonable measure. It does kinda suck to be the collateral damage, I give you that - but as long as the game can't tell the reason for the disconnect that's the best it can do.
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On killer you have to still sweat like your life debend on it and that's not fun and it means more tunneling to get those pips as you have to force the win and kills anyway you can. In red rank it's even worse you have to slug too for 4K. Current pip mechanics in my opinions don't reward healthy playstyle for both sides. On survivor best way to pip is 3 gen yourself every game...
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On the other hand you can depip as killer or survivor if you win too fast the match. I think depip standards should be lowered especially in higher ranks. I call them ranks because grades still feel like ranks when you have to work so hard to get up.
Dc:ing or going afk should result always is depip but if you genuinely do your best I don't think you should depip almost never like now you can get few unhooks and do few gens and even loop the killer but still depip.... As killer you can get 6 hooks and 2 kills and still depip.
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Here's me depipping after 4K.
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sure, but ppl who intentionally dc on purpose don't care if they lose a pip or not. so ultimately you only punish either beginners (weaker players) for not performing good enough or ppl who couldn't control the outcome in form of a dc or being face camped/tunneled out of the game early on. as a killer you could still gain points by using your power, destroy stuff, find, chase, injure and potentially hook survivors even if you weren't good leading to at least a black pip, but on survivor side that's not possible if you die 1st hook not being able to do anything at all in that match.
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agreed. it's pretty unhealthy at its current state. my suggestion would be to remove depipping entirely and take black pips as a bare minimum because ppl who play like that on purpose don't care if they lose pips. so ppl who just don't care would make no progress at all by getting a black pip, but ppl who couldn't control the outcome of the match still wouldn't lose pips due to having toxic/bad teammates or a killer who just loves to annoy certain survivors.
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yeah that happens if you play a strong killer or have too strong addons. imo myers should be buffed entirely, but his tombstone addons removed completely to even it out. that's another story though. it's the same as gen rushing on survivor side no matter the cause. either the killer is a bad match for that team in terms of bad match making or the survivors used very strong items and addons like 4 bnps. they would most likely also depip. i don't get why depipping is in the game still. it serves no purpose at all.
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...and another one...
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This definitely needs to be addressed. It is basically impossible to get Iridescent 1 as a solo queue player as it requires far too much to pip.
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I've done it, once. It didn't feel like it was because of my skill, it felt more luck-based than anything else.
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Yeah that's what I dislike a lot, that it's reliant on a bad killer or good teammates to pip. Should just reduce the requirements to pip at Iri or remove de-pipping at Iri completely.
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it's definitely not a thing that has to do with the imbalance between solo q and swf, but this imbalance definitely needs to be addressed. this problem is mostly about face camping/tunneling killers and gen rushing survivors though.
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well i agree to the extent that it needs way more work as a survivor to reach iri 1, but you get pips for the same categories. the problem is just that your luck on doing that depends on your teammates and how "nice" the killer is. if the killer face camps/tunnels you then you won't get points. if your teammates are intentionally throwing and dcing on purpose etc. you are also screwed.
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depipping should be removed all together because it doesn't serve a purpose anymore. back in the days of rank based match making losing pips served a purpose at least on paper to be paired with equally good killers/survivors, but now after the rework and implementation of a grade system in which ranks serve no purpose anymore losing pips is not a thing that should exist in dbd.
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It's just better to give up on pipping you only get max 2 million bp as reward if you reach red rank 1 in both sides. Depipping definetely should not be thing but it does not seem to be bhvr priority to fix it or just remove it. I can 3-4K as killer and still not get a pip and then have few bad games and lose a pip. On survivor you can still escape and depip.... grades feel like they are still rank and they are there to show skill expression even they are supposed to just show how much you play but that definetely is not the case.
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but it should be of priority. i sometimes have 50 matches in a row in which i constantly lose a pip and can't climb up. the highest i can get on each side is mostly gold 4 and i must have been rly lucky getting their. that shouldn't be a thing and i pretty much never get past it anymore.
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Honestly it's just a seasonal levels in current state so removing depip is only logical changes we can do now.
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De-pipping isn't meant to punish people messing with the game, it's to lower your rank so that you're matched against easier people.
Because De-pipping doesn't actually do that anymore, it does nothing but rub salt in the wounds of people that were camped at 5 gens.
There is literally no reason for it to exist when its original reason doesn't exist anymore.
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My friend just made the mistake of trying to play solo survivor. Friend was the first one chased and during it ran by someone who was AFK. The killer downed my friend, downed the AFKer, then hooked my friend in the basement. A moment later, the killer downed Bill who tried to pick up the AFKer and put him on a hook. The killer then pulled the final survivor, Dwight, off a gen and tried to get him to make hook saves but he ran off and hid instead. My friend and the Bill both died.
Obviously, my friend depipped for that. Totally fair.
That was the first and last match. It's not even uncommon for a match to go that way, but it's so frustrating. My friend turned the game off because who wants to queue up just for that? Basically the only thing that happened was he lost previous progress made. Depipping kills any desire he or I might have to play the game. No other game I've played has included such a de-motivational mechanic to chase away its customers.
If anyone's curious, we spectated a bit before turning the game off, and the killer was trying to get Dwight and the now-returned AFKer (who NEVER GOT HOOKED) to do gens. Freaking why? Five gens left, no one touched a gen at all after my friend died, so I can only hope Dwight continues to hide and the AFKer continues to beg for death and the killer severely regrets not just killing them. Goddammit, guys, can you please start hooking AFKers first?
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I agree I have only reached iri on both sides because I sweat. On killer I tunnel every game and then spread hooks to have best chance to pip or at minimium safety pip.
On survivor it's important you don't get found first if im alone I usually cleanse totem or keep low profile before killer finds someone. Try to do unhooks, heals, gens and totems. Best stragedy is to 3 gen your team as long match quaratees pip or two.
But unfortunately there will be matches when killer tunnels/camp you out and that's depip and there will be matches when you get gen rushed as killer and depip. You just have to hope you have more good games...
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well i can't even count how many times i have experienced that exact same situation. it's totally frustrating! i can tell you why the killer in the end tried to get the remaining survivors to trade hooks or do gens and that's because the killer didn't want to depip themselves. by killing survivors way too quickly serves the same purpose as you dying 1st hooked due to being face camped, tunneled out of the game early on or survivors gen rushing you as a killer within minutes without having the opportunity to gain any chase, brutal or gen defense points in that match. what the killer did there was literally damage control and it's especially annoying if they start doing that after you got camped or tunneled out of the game benefiting the person who deserved points the least.
that's exactly why i want the devs to see this so losing pips finally gets removed out of the game asap! many more ppl have to see and upvote this thread so this can be changed, but it seems behavior just doesn't care about their customers :/
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