Dead hard better than Eruption
It is normal that out of 4 survivors 3 always carry dead hard.
it is abnormal that a perck is always used so abusive in time and nerf another perck like Eruption that "helps" in the reduction of the progression of generators.
Answers
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Contrary to killers, who have 10+ good regression perks, survivors don't have the luxury of choice, there are only 3-4 exhaustion perks that are good. So one would expect the pick rate of any exhaustion perk to be naturally high (around 25%) just because of lack of competition.
Maybe BHVR should increase competition to Dead Hard by introducing new OP perks and Dead Hard's pickrate will magically decrease. Is that what you want?
Comparing DH and Eruption is silly as one perk requires high skill to use while the other requires exactly zero.
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This
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Uhm... Sure. Killers have so many great regression perks. Just look at Rui-- ehr Pop-- ehr Huntress Lulla-- Well, maybe not that many.
The most viable options left in terms of slowdown are Pain Res + DMS and CoB. Everything else isn't comparable.
DH should be nerfed again. BHVR tried to get it out of the meta and they failed spectacularly. It's still the most used perk in the game. It doesn't matter that DH is an exhaustion perk. I remember people crying about how DH was unusable and how everyone would run SB instead. That lasted for about 1-2 weeks. Then most switched back to DH not because it's an exhaustion perk but because it's still insanely strong.
Nurse wasn't any less of a problem just becaus she's hard. The same goes for DH. Dead Hard is too strong, period. No amount of "But there are no alternatives and it's hard to use." will negate that. Half the killers have very skripted powers, so using DH against them is pretty much a guaranteed third health state.
Rewarding skillful plays should go for both sides. A killer mindgaming a survivor at a safe structure to get into a position where they can barely get the hit or outplaying them with their power resulting into DH is not rewarding. It's the exact opposite.
Also, you might want to reconsider stating that Eruption does not take any skill. That is pretty much equivalent to calling every survivor player a potato. You still need to actually get the down to activate it after all.
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Y’all gotta stop calling stuff abusive just because you don’t like it. That’s not what that word means
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It’s almost like survivors have so many perks to speed up gen, including items like brand new part.
this isn’t a one sided thing. You have access to make a full load out dedicated to gen speeds
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I just want to explain something briefly that I keep reading.
Doing generator faster is not equal to regressing generators. making gens faster is == to making survivors die faster which for killer in particular relates to instant downs and instant mori's such as Tombstone piece Myers.
regressing generator is making the game slower for your opponent, so the equivalent perk for survivor is anti-tunnel perks because anti-tunnel perks prevent you from dying too quickly. this is why dead hard and Eruption are comparable perks because Dead hard is second-chance anti-tunnel perk that slows objective down for the killer and Eruption is a regression perk that slows objective down for survivor.
Irony behind these two perks is that both of their counter-play is just wait it out. Pikachu face.
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Dead hard is used a LOT. But it doesn't carry a game as hard as eruption can.
Survs have a lot of dead perks. And dead hard is probably one of the bestbsingle perks in the game. But it isn't broken, it's hard to trigger and can easily be baited out.
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Not only bullshit but also irrelevant. It is a free third health state every 40 seconds and it doesn't matter if it can be misplayed, it is stupidly OP unlike Eruption. 25 second disable is a walk from one generator to another and Eruption can easily be avoided as you just simply get off the generator... Every time you get hit by Eruption is you making a mistake. Dead Hard is carries survivors extremely hard and prolongs chases by ridiculous amounts in a gen rushing meta. This perk needs to die.
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How is DH a free 3rd health state when you can avoid it 90% of the time? I refuse to believe killers are eating this many Dead Hards if they're experienced players.
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Let's do a reverse, then: I refuse to believe that survivors ate that many Eruptions, when they know what they are doing and got more then 50h under their belt. Why was it nerfed to hard? Lmao.
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Hard to trigger? Press E is hard to trigger? What?
Also, its a perk that can still be used for distance and to extend a chase. If you're invulnerable for 2m you are still gaining distance to a point. The killer can't do anything.
Instead of using it early like it was before, just wait .5 seconds. In .5 seconds the survivor will cover the distance lost from the "rework".
Also, there are too many dead perks in the game in general.
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How to pop Erupt : ( Very easy and OP )
1.) Find working gen
2.) Kick gen
3.) Hope nobody will tunnel gen for 30 sec right after you turn your back on it
4.) Find surv to kill to pop Erupt
5.) Loop surv for eternity eating 300 pallets and God loops
6.) Hope gen with Erupt didnt pop yet
7.) Hit surv and eat more 300 pallets
8.) Hit Dead Hard and eat more 300 pallets or be lucky and kill
9.) Down surv and HOPE nobody used VoiceChat.exe to get of gen and was working on that exact gen and didnt finished it for 30 sec and Catch him with Erupt..
Very easy to do i know...
How to play Dead Hard
1.) Press E
Or get auto DH wich a lot of ppl use but nobody care
So definitely Killers are the ones should be nerfed... Couple last working perks remain...
Soon they also will be nerfed....
The Surv Casuality and noob level line will just be going down more and more ... On each level they will cry bec ppl with 100 hours and 0 skill are allowed to cry on forums...
On eqch nerf qnd noobility line level they will cry and lower this line with new nerfs...
Thats how Casuals ruin every game with WOW being great example....
At same time SWF and VoiceChat.exe wl bot be nerfed breaking the game by side programm....
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The nurse has entered the chat.
She can pop eruption whenever she wants because she can just blink through pallets and dead hard isn’t even that big of a deal for her.
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lot of killer mains in this thread who have never played a game of survivor in their life and it shows. misunderstandings of core gameplay mechanics such as mending and exhaustion from a survivor perspective, accusations of widespread cheating by their opponents (the most common cope for boosted players in all games), and not understanding that a 0.5 second timing window to use a perk is much tighter than the 30 second to several minute timing window to take advantage of eruption.
i could probably count on one hand the number of games i've run DH, and on the other hand the number of games i've used Eruption. I don't like relying on crutch perks; another thing I don't like is just how bad some of the arguments people have about those two perks can be.
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Bro u should be president or something. I dont know why it is necessary at all to explain such things to people who are disgustingly sure that they are saying something clever.
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but 3/4 killers run eruption
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While you're not entirely wrong, I would recon that the number of "hard-core killermains who never touch survivor" is much, much lower then the number of "hard-core survivor main who will never touch killer". Most killer players that I know play a reasonable portion of survivors, either close to 50/50 or at least 70/30, where as there is a sizable portion of survivors who basically never touch killer and only play to survive with their friends.
Nothing wrong with that, but running a mile in the other roles shoes not only makes you an overall better player, it also let's you experience the issues of both roles first hand and build up empathy. You can count on one hand how often I used current Eruption, because till next chapter it's busted. And you can be sure that I never t-bag the killers, nor wait at the exit gates to twerk, bit just leave.
The casual player is probably not using DH, but a lot of the regular players are. While DH in the first two weeks after 6.1 was a rare sight and any successful parry raised an eyebrow and made you go "woah. Mad respect, bro.", now a big bunch of survivors have wisened up to the perk and know exactly how to use it. Using it prevault, pre-palette drop or by running into the killer, many suevivors have become experts at baiting the hit out of the killer, 0.5s be damned, the are so many lose/lose situations that latency barely matters.
And there is a surprising amount of survivors with either nerves of steel, that can read you like a book and even parry reliable when you catch up to them in the open ...or that are indeed using a script. In the end it doesn't matter, the fact stands that DH gives so many survivors a get out jail card when they shouldn't be given this chance, when they are caught in the open or backed into a dead zone with their pants down. In all this situations the killer can't just down them, but must carefully assess the situation, weight their options, the skill level of the survivor and bait and bide and still fail 50/50.
It's easy to see why DH is so popular: it gives you all this running chances when you should go down, and it can be honed like a blade, up to such an edge that it indeed becomes a defacto third health state.
Eruption is also a busted perk, and when you got in a 3 gen situation, with all gens primed and one survivor out of the game, it can really shine, but you still got to down a survivor in a timely manner, which isn't a giving. I am in no means defending Eruption and am happy that it's gone, but I really, really wish that killers concerns would be taken with the same seriousness. I can see that it's not am easy decision to take away the favorite toy of 3/4 of the games population, but this perk is singlehandedly strangling l the fun out of killer matches and is more deadly then any killer, Nurse and Blight combined.
The sooner BHVR takes this brave step, the better.
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10+ good regression perks? You must be joking. Lets look at every perk that could even be considered a gen defense perk:
- Call of Brine
- Corrupt Intervention
- Dead man's switch
- Deadlock
- Eruption
- Grim embrace
- Hex: Huntress : Lullaby
- Hex: Pentimento
- Hex: Ruin
- Jolt
- Merciless Storm
- Oppression
- Overcharge
- Pop goes the Weasel
- Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain
- Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance
- Thanatophobia
Now lets look at the completely useless ones:
- Grim Embrace: This one is a complete joke of a perk, it takes way too long to activate, by the time it does, it doesn't give you enough pressure and is way too short. you will almost never get any value out of this one.
- Hex: Huntress Lullaby: Another complete joke, any decent survivor can hit the skillchecks regardless of the warning, and even then being a hex it can get cleansed so fast, and you'll likely lose 2-3 gens during your first chase anyway, so it is not going to give you much value.
- Hex: Ruin: This one was nerfed into oblivion and uselessness, you'll never be able to get any decent value due to the regression being 1/4 of a survivors PROGRESSION. Since the nerf, survivors often don't even bother to cleanse it anymore.
- Merciless storm: Any decent survivor can hit the skill checks, and even if they don't, it simply blocks the gen for 20 seconds, doesn't do any kind of regression and only activates once.
- Oppression: The cooldown on this is way way too long to be servicable. On top of that, it doesn't actually give any bonus regression, its just kicking multiple gens.
- Pop goes the Weasel: This one was nerfed into uselessness. It has a timer, meaning you often can't use it on a gen with the highest progress, and in order to reach even pain resonance levels of value the gen needs to be at over 50% progress, on top of that you need to go and walk to the gen. Since the nerf, you generally barely gain back the amount of time you spent walking to the gen and kicking it. Dead perk
- Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain: This one is pretty useless most of the time, it requires you to not hit the person who has it, so even if you go out of your way to not tunnel, they can body block someone else to force you to remove the debuff, or they can just not heal and power through.
- Thanatophobia: This perk was nerfed into complete uselessness due to a single killer, which is just a joke. If you don't have all 4 injured you are gaining literally 2 seconds on a single generator for each person injured, what a waste.
That leaves us with the ones that are decent:
- Corrupt Intervention: Depending on the killer you are playing, this can slow down the early game quite a bit and give you some time to get started, but still, once it is done, it is done.
- Dead man's switch: this perk is only usable with pain resonance, outside of that, it is relegated to the useless category
- Eruption (post nerf): Right now it is very good, but after the nerf it will simply be usable.
- Hex: Pentimento: This CAN work on a hex build or with plaything, but these days people often ignore plaything and just do gens.
- Jolt: Isn't very reliable and can be heavily countered by survivors, additionally knocking off 7.2 seconds off a gen or 2 isn't really anything to write home about
- Overcharge: Against good survivors, the skill check aspect is useless, and the fact that the perk starts at lower than base regression before kicking in 20 seconds later, it really doesn't seem much use.
That leaves us with the only 3 good ones:
- Call of Brine: The fact that it ups the base regression to honestly probably what regression should be is great, and the fact that it gives information as well. For a gen kicking build this perk is a must.
- Deadlock: Deadlock is much better than corrupt, not only because it doesn't prematurely end, but it gives you more information. You see the gen that you need to start defending next when it gets blocked, and it prevents gen rushing much better than corrupt does.
- Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance: The only decent gen regression perk left that is mostly passive. You know off 13 seconds of progress off the gen with the most progress. Survivors also scream when on the gen, giving you information as to whether it is being worked on, and often if you pay attention it can tell you where the gen is. Additionally i combines nicely with deadlock and is part of the main meta build that will happen after eruption nerf of (PR/DMS/Thrilling Tremors/Anything)
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I'm guessing you're a killer main? It always amazes me when people call DH an automatic third health state. It really isn't, when I play killer I bait out DH all the time, it's pretty easy to tell when a surv is trying to force it, which they often have to do to trigger it. If a surv doubles back and runs at you then they'reprobably trying to trigger DH. Just don't get to thirsty to M1 and you'll see them dab and down them. I do it on most of my normal hits too and often down them. If you get caught out by it then remember that surv and bait it out next time. If you get constantly DHd then it is a skill issue. It's punishing if you get caught out by it and it is a good perk, but it isn't the constant 3rd health state some players seem to think it is just because they can't counter play it.
And eruption is not fine, admittedly the up coming nerf is definitely overkill. But it shouldn't stay as is. I dont see how you can know when to get off the gen, unless you're SWFing. Because you do not know when the surv in chase will go down. Unless you're on comms with the person in chase you either stay off the gen as soon as you see the person in chase is injured and sacrifice progress because that chase will last anything from 10 secs to a few minutes.
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When deadlock cant work with pain res....and even 3 perk gen kick combo countered by TOUCH GEN
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Yh .5 secs is a small time window. That's easy to miss. And it's on killer too, you can simply bait it out by waiting a second. I donit all the time as killer. And after a while you start being able to read when survs try to force it.
Your last point is pretty solid though. Survs have so many dead perks. And out of all the exhaustion perks, DH is arguably the best. When you hit it, you get much more distance than the other ones. I agree that like 75% of the player base run it because it's probably the best single perk available but I can't agree that it's broken. It has counterplay, requires good timing and survs just don't have many other good options.
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lmao are you joking right?
1 survivors doesn't necessarily need an exhaustion perk in their builds (i played without them and did quite fine)
2 gen regression perks currently are trash, the good ones were nerfed into the ground (hello pop, hello ruin) and the few viable ones are either situational/random (scourge hooks having a random spawn on the map giving you scenarios where you aren't even able to use them) or are too much weak/depend from survivors (a decent survivor will never miss an overcharge skill check, a smart survivor will tap the gen in order to stop CoB, etc etc...)
3 you right, dead hard doesn't require skill because it's literally learning to press E near pallets and windows, while eruption needed various actions in order to be activated (kick the gen and mostly winning a chase, which require a certain level of skill in my book)
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I think the .5 seconds of invulnerability on DH is misleading in terms of its effect.
It extends chases significantly and killers always have to play around it until you know its there. Getting the endurance effect is a huge loss for the killer.
Consider the following scenario.
Killer is 6m away from survivor.
Survivor is 6m away from pallet.
Without DH, killer can lunge and hit the survivor very reliably.
With DH, killer can't lunge and hit the survivor. 6m is 1sec of travel time for the killer lunge. Well above normal reaction times. Survivor can simply DH the hit. Survivor can reach the pallet and extend the chase. This is FREE distance. There is no counterplay. A noob might mistake your flick for a lunge but a good player won't.
One second later, survivor is 2m away from the pallet. Killer is 5.4m away from survivor. Survivor makes the pallet.
Even further out the results are the same.
Killer is 6m away from survivor. Survivor is 10m away from pallet.
1 second later killer is 5.4m away from survivor. Survivor is 6m away from pallet. Same scenario as before, little less reaction time but still significantly above normal levels.
2 seconds later, killer is 4.8m away from survivor who is 2m away from pallet. Again, plenty of time to react, maybe the slowest players will miss this.
You can see that having DH does in fact provide distance and in some cases an extra loop or pallet or transition to another tile. You don't even have to press it for this to be the case.
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Its guaranteed third health state, and extends the chase accordingly
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Oh I agree, I'm not saying DH isn't mad annoying when you get caught out by it. Because it is. Nothing I hate more as killer than seeing what should have been a down scoot off at lightspeed, glowing white to pop over a vault while I'm cleaning my weapon.
But that's WHEN you hit it. My point is that DH is not a guaranteed thing. It takes good timing to nail that trigger. I play a decent amount of survivor, probably slightly more than I do killer honestly. And i miss at least half, probably more of my DH triggers. A slight bit of latency can spoil your attempt, a killer can bait it out by showing 1 sec of patience, or reading your intent when you run at them. And in the immortal words of Eminem "you've only got one shot" pop that trigger too early and you aren't going to get another attempt in that chase, even if it doesn't directly cause you to go down.
It's punishing when you get caught out by it for sure. If I had to rebalance DH imo, I'd have it inflict a special deep wound that still ticks down even while you're sprinting. It still extends the chase but doesn't make it as punishing as it is currently. Because DH used by a really good chase runner, will extend the chase by a third. And good chase runners are usually good at dead hard triggers.
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