For a Rework of Backwater Swamp - New Edge/Wall/ Border Recommendation.
So one thing that always bothered me was the wall around the edge of Backwater Swamp Maps, so if you are gonna rework those maps. ill throw in my two cents here. I dont have much to say about the balance and tiles, but In this post idd like to focus on the map borders or the edges.
Like I don't consider myself a Lore Guy, but these maps are supposed to be drained swamps. Kind of weird someone would build a brick fence with iron struts around it. Did someone actually build that in a Swamp and the entity stole the idea from memory? Surely we could change it? I have an idea.
What if instead on the sides of the swamp maps the sides had water? like the sides of the swamp was un-drained parts of the bigger total swamp? So I went to Google to steal some images for inspiration.
This image here has a great mountain horizont, but I think it would be better if it looked like 20m out from the edge the water and fog just becomes seamless. Notice the vegetation here tho, these waterweeds would be nice sticking out of the water sparingly.
Perhaps some trees too looming in the distance, hints of a grove you cant get to cause survivors cant swim cause of big crocs or spider.
Never seen a tree like this one, wow it actually just stands out there. amazing.
Anyway, I hope bHVR could consider that for a possible rework of the swamp, it might be hard to recreate the deadstill water and fog with looming trees in the distance. But I think it would really improve that general aesthetics of the Backwater Swamp. perhaps an occasional bubble in the dead still water.
I made a quick scratch of the idea seen here from the side, I think it would seem much much much more realistic than the current brick wall. I dont know what to do with the Gates tho. Make them look like the Grim Pantry? perhaps.
Comments
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A constant vertical wall is way easier to see from a distance, than an invisible wall with sparingly placed objects and stuff on the ground.
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ever heard of this map called the Garden of Joy
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Ah but you forget that the edge of the map is a Slope. You know thats the edge of the map.
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How is a downward slope easier to see from a distance than a vertical wall is? The purpose of the vertical wall is so everyone can easily see the edge of the map from a distance.
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The garden of joy map, that has a short rock wall, and so many floating rocks behind the wall that the edge of the map can be easily seen from a distance?
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There is no need of that, we all know that the edges of the swamp, where the slope goes up is the edge of the map.
No need for a wall.
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Do you see how easy it is to see the wall, way off in the distance, since it has a unique graphic that is super vertical? That's way easier to see than a slope is. In the second picture, when I click it so it's bigger, I can easily see the wall go the entire length of the screenshot.
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You also notice the higher concentration of trees and the slope? Should a player would have to be confused by my recommendation, there is an invisible wall to stop them. Halting their movement in, teaching them the limits. You could try jumping in the water 5 times until you realize you cant and besides... Don't you have generators to do? Indeed, there should not be much of a problem here.
Post edited by Emeal on1 -
What is up with people on these forums trying to shame people into agreeing with them? This is exactly like the shaming that happens when people say "good killers know how to bait dead hard, so if you're having trouble with dead hard, then you must not be a good killer". Does this actually work on people? Do people actually say "oh no, I don't want people to think I'm a bad killer so I better get shamed into thinking dead hard is ok"? Do people actually say "oh no, I don't want people to think I'm the most unobservant so I better get shamed into thinking the swamp slope idea is good"?
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I explained to you how there were trees and a slope could easily demonstrate the map edge, meaning it would matter little to remove the wall as the maps edge would me demonstrated and accounted for. Now I stated my opinion that , Would you need more than that to demonstrate where the map's edge was, I think that player would be very unobservant should they require more than those indicators. That was the point. However, in the event of such a player not knowing where the edge of the map is, the invisible wall would teach them that there is no swimming in this game.
Now I really don't think saying this is making an attempt at shaming player in compliance, but you may have a point. It was not my intention to shame someone as unobservant for not seeing the slope and increased number of trees indicating map edge, a point you seem to have glossed over for now. I will go back and change my response to your critique as I would not like to indicate to you something that isn't my intention. Let me repeat, I am not trying to shame you into compliance and if you thought that id like to apologize. Not my intention.
I would like to hear your argument against the point that the typography of the map and increased foliage is enough or not to indicate the edge of the map?
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no one is shaming you tho
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Imagine realm beyond updates for maps can finally be done with the swamp and over and they can then focus on other realm beyond stuff (character models, animations, maybe even lighting, atmosphere, fog?? And/or add new maps and maps for chapters that didn’t get any (All-Kill chapter in new realm, Binding of kin new map for either Red Forest or Shattered Square)
(why am I still excited and optimistic on DbD someone help me)
on topic: I think many fence designs around maps don’t really make that much sense I guess, but it should definitely be something more fitting with the structures on the maps already present and all.
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My argument is that an vertical wall, that has a unique graphic, is much easier to see from far away, and is much quicker to notice from far away. Having an invisible wall doesn't help people see the wall from far away. We don't need to make the map more difficult to figure out, just so you can have a bit more immersion.
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Aha, yeah I'm gonna have to ask you to address why in your mind, The Slope and the increased foliage isn't enough to indicate the edge. You saying "a wall is unique landmark" does not really convince me my recommendation is bad. Also Garden of Joy has no walls, that place too has some flying debris, while my recommendation would have fog. Check the picture I made in paint.
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And as shown in the screenshots I posted earlier in this thread, Garden of joy has a short unique rock wall, and a vertical dense wall of giant floating rocks (that only exist beyond the edges of the map). Garden of joy does have a unique wall, it's just in the form of a dense wall of floating rocks.
Every map should have unique graphics that very clearly show where the edges of the map are. Your slope doesn't count. And having a bit of sparse vegetation doesn't count either. You would need something like a dense floating wall of vegetation, that clearly only exists beyond the walls of the map. Or a solid wall of something that also only exists at the edges of the map.
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And I can add that (super thick) fog with water would do the trick too, however we already do have fog in offerings - so it would need to have say unique color - defeating purpose of this thread.
But the point stands - edge of the map should be easily distinguishable from the rest of the map. Otherwise people will try to chase at the edge by mistake. That would be very unfun experience
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Yeah, I understand you think it does not count. I got that from the start.
Cant you explain why it does not count and why I should think it does not count as indication of the edge of the map?
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The giant vertical wall, with the unique graphics that only exist on the edges of the map, is a better indication. It's unique, it's constant throughout the entire edge of the map, and it's very vertical so it's easy to see from far away.
If your idea is implemented, survivors will have a fit because they'll accidently run into the edges of the map during a chase. And saying "well, you must be unobservant if you ran into the invisible walls" is a garbage excuse.
I'm done with this conversation. Your idea is terrible.
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Again with the Unique thing again, the slope and increase foliage is also unique. the slope and increase foliage can ALSO be seen from far away and its also vertical.
Also you have not even mentioned the slope OR the foliage, and why that cant count enough to make Survivors know where the map edge is? even so surely they can learn even without a wall. Again, you must have missed my response to your comments because I specifically told you it was not an attempt to shame people into compliance and your reiteration of what I said isn't even correct.
Anyway just wanted to hear you out what the rationale behind your critique, but it seems rather inconsistent. Even though I was the first to point the finger at possibly unobservant players, I do not think its such a big problem. Again, we have the slope, we have the trees and even if a player ignores all of those they cant jump in the water, juts like they cant jump over the cliff in Garden of Joy. Even so Backwater Swamp seems to have a lot more indicators of map edge than Garden of Joy and all those maps function fine.
Again, let me repeat. It was not my intention to shame players into compliance.
Post edited by Emeal on0
