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are any of the maps in this game actually balanced for killer players?
almost all of the maps in this game are oversaturated with safe loops(all 3 farm maps/knights map/the game) or are big maps sizes(red forest/springwood/macmillan/crotos)...i feel the only one that actually benefits killers is dead dawg and even that has a busted building
I get excited when the devs say map rework and then realize map rework that still favors survivors even the new sheltered woods remake is adding more loops for survivors
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Most of the MacMillan and Autohaven maps are Killer-sided I feel, besides Gas Heaven and Groaning Storehouse.
RPD is probably Killer-sided but the map is just miserable, Midwich is Killer-sided.
I think Lery's is Killer-sided as well, though perhaps Killer-leaning would be more accurate. I think the same of The Game, depending on the Killer.
You already mentioned Dead Dawg
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New Eyrie feels pretty fair for both sides.
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Coal Tower and Wreckers' Yard are pretty much the only two maps that are actually balanced in the game currently.
It doesn't matter if you're playing a weak killer with no chase power/mobility, you're always going to have a great time on these maps.
Midwich is also considered a killer-sided map, but if you get a RNG that spawns 2 gens on the 1st floor and the other 5 on the 2nd floor, you're screwed.
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i don't think so. coal tower has ton of pallet and linking. Iron works is really big map. Suffocation pit in the middle is an actual nightmare if the setup is remotely possible to link.
Shelter woods is really killer sided for wrong reasons which is there is way too few pallets on the map. I am so happy they're fixing that in next chapter. one of best changes in tool of torment chapter.
Autohaven maps are survivor sided however Wretched shop has shelter wood problem too little pallets. they need add few more pallets on it and azeroth resting place is an annoying 3 gen map. its survivor sided if the killer has no 3 gen kick perks but killer sided if he does. it is lop-sided map with different imbalances.
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Coal Tower is a small map that has fair tiles.
Iron Works is larger but the tiles are spaced out, there can be a lot of dead zones.
Suffocation Pit OFTEN spawns 5-gens on either side. There's little reason to traverse the middle.
Aazarov's Resting Place has the same issue as Suffo Pit, it can spawn 5-gens AND can have massive deadzones.
Wretched Shop has few pallets and a lot of dead zones.
Wrecker's Yard is tiny and can have bad 3-gens and dead zones.
Blood Lodge is bigger but has some really awful 4-gen spots.
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if my team is strong as survivor, i think that coal tower more often then not a free win. i also do not think its that small of a map either. I have had many games where I can 5 gen chase weak m1 killers like pig on that map. I think shelter woods is probably hardest map out of the 5 to win on as survivor but it might not be that imbalanced post-tool of torment update. its just lack of pallets makes looping not enjoyable for survivor.
as for azeroth maps. they're weird. gas heaven and blood lodge vs most killers for me feel like free win if my team is good.
wretcher shop can sometimes have very few pallets like shelter woods and it is pretty easy for killer to brute force dead zones in that map. wretched shop is just old shelter wood 2.0 problems. I dislike playing it as survivor but its pretty free win as killer in my experience.
Wrecker yard is such claustrophobic map. the pallet are safe but the map is so squished in a circle that the map leads to dead ends making zoning really potent in the map. its like anti-shift w map for survivor. the map is killer sided. I dislike playing that map as survivor because of shack basement camping. its kinda boring and dull. if you get strong tile rng on this map and your good at looping tiles then the map is a lot more survivor sided then people give it credit for however this heavily varies because a lot of killer can have strong tile-set anti-loop. mix-bag map.
Azeroth resting place is an example of a map that is too big but get balanced by 3 gen gameplay which is incredibly boring for both sides. I dislike playing the map because its boring slog for survivor in soloq if the killer is competent. as killer I feel like pigeon held into playing a forced gameplay strategy. I dislike playing maps where there is no gameplay variety in how you win. creates repetitive gameplay experience. killer sided map but for wrong reasons.
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This map can give you a shack window straight into another pallet, not to mention it is still pretty big
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I would say that it isn't common to see shack chain. That's just rng being rng, and it being able to happen doesn't take away from all the good that the map has.
The map might technically be large but a heat map on player movement would show that players are not playing in the entire map. The main is mostly a dead zone and the play is all in front of the building. There also is no problem on this map with pre-leave and holding w. This is because the gen are more toward the edge of the map. I find the size of this map to actually be desirable.
Pallets on this map feel very strong but rewarding for killer, as breaking them creates dead zones. The fence pallet in the middle of the map is a great example of this. Super strong tile that when removed makes the middle of the map much weaker. Gives survivor skill expression of not throwing the pallet unless giving large value (death hook/going down) because it makes the middle much better for the killer. Feels good for killer as there doesn't seem to be high amounts of pallets so when you remove some there are now dead zones you can get hits later from.
The main windows I also find fair. The short wall window is mostly buying time for the survivor to cross the map and the long wall window is isolated from the rest of the map making it a time waster before getting hit/down. I think the gameplay/flow from this map is actually very, very good. One of the few maps that I don't care what killer or role I'm on when I get it.
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Lol
balanced in the killer's favour
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Lol. RPD is a hold W fest with braindead safe pallets everywhere, Midwich is a hold W fest, Lery’s has an infinite in its main room with pallets and windows literally everywhere. Game has braindead safe pallets literally everywhere. And I haven’t even mentioned RPD and Midwich’s terrible hook spawns.
TLDR: Every indoor map in the game is garbage for killer.
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Every new reworked map + MacMillan, Midwich, Dead Dawg and The Game
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You are allowed to hold the wrong opinions.
Every stat we've gotten has said that you're outrageously wrong
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Because that's exactly how this post comes off. Sometimes it is simply a skill issue. I used to 4k all the time on old eyrie. I don't really have a map as killer that I have a real issue with. I perform well on all of them. Depends a bit on the killer and my build. But none of the maps feel disadvantageous to me when I play killer.
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”Stats” don’t mean anything when a majority of this game’s players suck ass and over inflate the kill rate lmao.
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Midwich, RPD West: for most killers.
GF does really well on Borgo, RPD, DD, Lerry's, most of Azarov's. Sadako absolutely destroys on the Game.
Dead Dawg for Nurse, Huntress, Slinger.
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We can throw out DH stats and start nerfing Killers then if those stats don't matter.
Very silly position to take, it'd be easier to admit you were wrong and that you, on a personal level, dislike those maps.
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DH is still the #1 most used and will easily go back to its old usage rate if left untouched. Common sense would tell you it’s unbalanced either way. Get out of here with these crappy strawmans.
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Usage rates are stats. All you're showing is that you're completely hypocritical.
Stats only seem to matter when they benefit you. As soon as they go against you it's, "Most players are bad, those don't matter we can't use them."
Just admit you dislike the maps
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And I explained why the stats are garbage. I don’t need stats when I have common sense. Last I checked, didn’t Cowshed have a 50% escape rate? So I guess using your logic, that map is totally fair and balanced then.
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agree - those are the two I was going to mention as feeling fair to me when I’m going against experienced survivors. For a lot of the other maps, especially when RNG is favorable to survivors, they can just chain together safe loops and run you for a couple of gens unless they make a mistake
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Stats also say nurse is the worse killer in game or mid tier so I wouldn't completely trust the stat.
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That's true.
Surely you can see what I'm saying though. It is a bit hypocritical to only use stats that support your argument while simply throwing out the stats that go against your argument.
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If you're facing an even slightly competent survivor the game is only balanced in their favor. The amount of techs and exploits survivors have is ridiculous.
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may i ask what killer you use mainly?
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This is just wrong.
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If all of these maps are so survivor sided, then the data should support this, right?
Kill rates on all of those maps should be lower than average...?
Is that the case?
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The maps that are killer-sided are a bit killer-sided but can still be manageable. The most survivor-sided maps verge on the unplayable for some killers in the roster. It’s telling that the standard reaction of killer players and content creators to so many maps is ‘oh god not ____’
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Yes a rework done right, went from the worst map for killer to one of the most balanced in the game.
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Ah yeah, the killer content creators, who record 50-winstreaks on a monthly basis
These people who win 90% of their matches as killer, claim that the game is survivor-sided, so let's trust that as the only source of evidence, disregarding every stat that the devs themselves have published which directly contradicts it
If you believe maps like Dead Dawg or Midwich are "just a bit" killer-sided then you have simply never played survivor on these maps. Hens managed to hold a 3-gen for ONE HOUR against 4 survs on Dead Dawg (and won because the server shut down).
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Lol.
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Some are Survivor sided, some are Killer sided. Yet both sides can still win on any map. The balance isn't great but it's really not as terrible as Killers make it out to be. Except for The Game, that one could really stand to lose a few pallets lol
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And then you count the pallets. And notice the totem spawn in main building. And realize how loops connect into each other. And see that every loop is safe. And perceive that there can spawn a literal hook dead zone. And find out that the breakable wall on the east side of main building has to be broken or else it's an infinite.
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If map balance doesn't have an impact on kill rates, then what exactly is the issue? What makes these maps unbalanced? They're less "fun" even though you win on them just as much?
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I just said what made them unbalanced. Newbies over inflate the kill rates cause they don’t know how to take advantage of the bs on the maps, let alone loop. That’s why those statistics are meaningless.
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Demo is my big main. Closely followed by ghostface and clown.
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i think gas heaven is balanced for both sides
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So you're saying that all kill rates are inflated by noob survivors? Are they inflated on all maps?
What about noob killers? Does that deflate kill rates?
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New shelter woods is doing my head in as killer, it's so big with so many safe loops and the building is crazy strong.
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To better understand this you need to understand that maps should favour the survivors more to an extent. If maps don't have loops the surviviors have literially no way to defend themselves, the killer has their power to help them kill and the survivors have their maps to defend themselves. If a map had a complete lack of safe loops, was very small and had great visability so they couldn't hide survivors would never win. I'm not saying this to excuse maps that are too good for the survivors or extreme cases of map rng but to say that all maps should have aspects where they favour the survivors and that killer sided maps are the ones where the benefits the survivors have are most managable, with aspects that favour killers being the exception not the rule. It's also worth noting that no map favours all killers because all killer have different powers, Midwhich is generally a killer sided map but a killer like huntress benefits from it a lot less than Wraith because of the power of holding W there and a lot of line of sight blockage hurt huntress but benefit wraith.
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Nightlight now has map statistics for anyone thats interested.
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I totally agree. Stats in dbd are sketchy at best
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I would say lerys is the most balanced map out of all ..the gameplay is about windows and mindgames on decent pallets , if the killer wants to play scummy and bloodlust the survivor , they also have some god pallets that can help them to prevent that , holding W on this map is pretty much non-existent since you can use shortcuts here and there + its a indoor map which means survivor can not see the killer within 50 meters aways from them and stealth killers can use their power pretty consistenly and the gens are pretty solid to defend / repair and reach.
even when people say that blight / wesker sucks on this map , I personally have 0 troubles on the map other than bumping into some corners a couple of times.
now about billy yeah....this maps is terrible for him..but we are talking about balance soo yeah i would say lerys 100%
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I’d say like 5% of the maps are balanced…maybe 1 or 2 that are killer favored..but that’s still debatable even.
We can see stats to show which maps are the best “compared to the others” for killers, but being the best compared to others doesn’t make them objectively “killer sided” just the best comparatively since they can be less survivor sided while still being survivor sided simultaneously.
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thanks very interested in that data
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Killer main here.
Overall, maps fall in 1 of three category in my book:
1. Too big
2. Too many pallets
3. Busted loops / safe spots
4*. All of the above.
*: all the new maps are CRIIIINGE
So most can be matchup dependent, which I like/dislike depends of my current build/killer.
Note I do not play nurse or blight, I avoid face camping / tunneling when I can... the struggle is real fam.
My take as of now (wasn't always the case) is that ALL MAPS ARE TERRIBLE! just some less than other...
My most recurrent complain is that the devs are always making the killer visible on all tiles...
Jungle gym with tall walls? Oh no some planks are missing....
Shack? Missing planks there too...
There is no possible mind games these days, moonwalk is USELESS if the survivors just SEE you at all times...
And why on EARTH does some of these tiny bushes have collision!? Assinine!
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May I ask what you find about Lery’s that is killer favoured? I personally find it kinda survivor sided with the amount of strong interconnected loops.
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It's indoors with very limited LoS.
Some of the pallets are good, some are really bad.
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we'll see (i won't consider the size of the map in this instance since everyone know how big certain maps are):
1 Badham (variations included): awful due to certain pallets that are too much safe paired with loops that can be chained easily alongside with 4 strong buildings (shack, the school, the "fake basement" and the house with brekable walls)
2 haddonfiled : few pallets (all of them are safe except for 2) overall but, but it's one of the safest maps in the game due to the houses that can be considered (almost) infinites (bonus: i personally despise that map)
3 swamp (boat): the boat is an infinite, pallets are enough safe and there's a couple of zones that are really annoying to deal with (bonus: i personally despise that map)
3.1 swamp (house): that house is evil incarnate due to the HUGE resources that survivors have to keep you busy (worthless chaing in that zone unless you are aganist potatoes or you are using the nurse), not to mention the other smaller building that aganist 4.4 killers is an infinite, collisions and hitboxes are weird (bonus: i personally despise that map)
4 garden of joy (pain): another map with a building that's an actual infinite, tons of pallets (most of them safe) easily chainable between each other and jungle gyms (bonus: i personally despise that map)
5 macmillan (soffocation pit): the mine it's a strong loop, add also that the centre of the map is a loopfest full of walls and window easily chainable between each other (bonus: i personally despise that map)
5.1 macmillan (ironwork of misery): strong building paired with good amount of pallets and jungle gyms easily chainable
5.2 macmillan (groaning storehouse): same as above
5.3 macmillan (shelter woods): same as above
5.4 macmillan (coal tower): same as above (but at least with less jungle gyms)
6 corn maps (all variants): low visibility paired with safe pallets and certain buildings that are too much safe (nothing new until now)
7 the game: palletown
8 erie of crows: good amount of pallets and windows, but this one is somewhat fair if rng won't screw you badly with double pallets (a pity for the height of certain loops that won't give any chance for ranged killers tho)
9 lery: too much walls, too much windows and too much pallets all together (bonus: i personally despise that map)
10 ormond: the central building is strong and some loops aren't exactly fair
11 midwitch: good and strong amount of pallets that can be chained with windows
12 dead dwag saloon: only 2 zones are really problematic/strong: the saloon itself and the jungle gyms (it can be easily considered a WHOLE and HUGE jungle gym) on the other side of the map
13 autohavens: aside the central buildings that are strong loops and the ones with a bus, the map has a fair amount of jungle gyms
14 raccon city: palletown plus a couple of loops really nasty to deal with with no room for mindgames
15 crotus (asylum): strong central building with many jungle gyms
15.1 crotus (chapel): central building can spawn with an infinite in it, good amount of jungle gyms
16 yamaoka maps: weird collisions, a couple of jungle gyms and good amount of pallets
17 decimated borgo: actually the worst map in the game imo with extremely bad hitboxes, collisions and objects placement (look at the shack for example: it's even more safe due to the objects that will block the killer more easily), tons of pallets, loops and jungle gyms, not to mention the awful colors that this map have (good luck finding pools of blood and scratchmarks here). Bonus: i HATE this map with a burning passion
18 red forest maps (new): too much objects (ranged killers will cry when they'll play in this map, killers like billy, wesker, blight and oni to some degree are heavily hindered), loops were enforced and the main structures still have the same problems as before (the house in the huntress map is still an infinite)
19 HAWKINS: (REDACTED)
this sums up everything
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Midwich's biggest problem is hook spawns. I can't say how many times I've picked someone up only to find that the only hooks nearby are on a different floor with no quick access to them. Sometimes on that map, you have no choice but to slug and that's through no fault of your own or the survivors.
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Wreckers Yard is the fair map. It is small, has no BS building and a fair number of pallets although they are strong pallets. Generally speaking if a map is 9000m² or smaller it has the potential to be fair.
Lest we all forget that one of the most fair maps ever in the game was Demo's map. It was small and had mostly mindgamable pallets.
Coal tower is not fair because it is too easy to jump from one tile to the next without actually using resources. Iron Works of Misery often has the same problem. I played a game on IWoM tonight and if I had not brought Bamboozle there would have been a near infinite loop where a window from one gym linked to another.
After Wreckers yard the next most fair map is probably Father Campbell's Chapel. What do both of the fair maps have in common? Small size and you can make a 3 gen in numerous places.
-"Shelter woods is really killer sided"
Maybe for Nurse and Blight pre-patch. Overall this map was broken for most M1 killers before they added the completely ridiculous and broken "camp" building.
-"corn maps (all variants): low visibility paired with safe pallets and certain buildings that are too much safe"
This is not true. Rancid Abattoir is the only fair corn map. It's ~8700m² and I win something like 97% of games on this map.
The worst corn map in my opinion is Torment Creek which is ~10750m². I lose something like 95% of games on this map. I only win if survivors play it real dumb and let me three gen on the strong side of the map.
"Most of the MacMillan and Autohaven maps are Killer-sided I feel, besides Gas Heaven and Groaning Storehouse."
Groaning Storehouse has some of the strongest 3 gen potential of any map in the game. Also you can almost always hook someone in the middle of a three gen or on the "wing" edges of a map and soft camp someone from 30m away. This is one of the easiest maps to win if you play like I do.
Ironworks is "mostly" fair but way too big. Every other map in the MME tileset is in the "not fair" list. Any map in the 3 gen or gtfo list is automatically thrown in the the broken pile. Therefore RPD, Azarov's and suffocation pit are broken.
Wretched shop is "borderline" in terms of fair. It's too big and needs to lose some area and then maybe I would put it in the fair category. It's not omg I hate this map but it's not an easy win.
"RPD is probably Killer-sided but the map is just miserable, Midwich is Killer-sided."
Any map in the 3 gen or gtfo list is automatically thrown in the the broken pile. Therefore RPD, Azarov's and suffocation pit are all broken.
Let's talk about something very briefly.... Midwich is killer sided but it's not "garden of joy" level killer sided.
-"I think Lery's is Killer-sided as well, though perhaps Killer-leaning would be more accurate. I think the same of The Game, depending on the Killer."
Lery's favors survivors unless you are playing Ghostface, scratched Mirror MM or Hag. Those killers make this map miserable for survivors. Lerys is way too big and has far too many vaults for it to be fair.
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