So Eruption and Incapacitated

Because they're a buggy clunky mess who breaks every 3 seconds and there's a 75% chance of getting a gamebreaking glitch that locks you out of playing the game?

That's one of the major reasons, imo. Also that there's a high skill floor, there's often a lot of required M1 gameplay, they highly encourage a boring gameplay style, and making mistakes is really punishing. Their relative strength level actually ranks fairly low.

Tunneling is strong because it forces the match into a 3v1 instead of a 4v1. You mean to tell me that doing that without the extra commitment of going through BT, Bodyblocking, and the entire first chase where most resources are up on the map doesn't give you value?

(maybe it doesn't when COH is around but tbh that perk singlehandedly nullifies over half of the roster so maybe that's not a Twins issue).

Also, again, Pinhead Chain Hunt gives so much value that there's builds and playstyle dedicated to forcing as many Chain Hunts as possible while tunneling to make an easy 3v1. Bring chained, even if Pinhead is nowhere near, applies Incapacitated. This makes doing anything challenging, and makes healing with Sloppy Butcher equipped genuinely impossible.

Incapacitated is just a status that should be rare and it really just shouldn't be used on perks at all. It's fine for Twins' and Pinhead's powers, but that's it.

That Huntress addon that inflicts it should be reworked too. It's a weak addon, but it can't really be buffed either without creating the same problem Eruption had. So they should just replace it with something else.

Killers Primary Objective is to Kill Survivors

Secondary Objective is Protect Gens From Being Repaired.

Survivors only have one objective...Repair Gens to escape. Totems would be at most considered a optional objective since they are not required to be done to complete the Main objective.

On most maps losing 3 gens in quick succession does usually mean the Killer will lose that match because the Gens would be so far apart trying to apply pressure would be very difficult unless the Killer goes for a 3-Gen Def or Survivors 3-Gen themselves.

Incapacitated and to an extend Killer instinct are tools that should just be linked to killer powers.

It makes sense for the twins that they can stop a survivor from doing gens if they choose to keep victor on their back. Or else what would be the point.

Giving something so powerfull to the entire cast is just a recipe for disaster

Deep wound is another one of those statuses. There should never be a killer perk that allows the killer to inflict deep wound on survivors

Survivors have one objective until the killer acts. The survivors' primary goals are *surviving* and doing gens to escape.

As soon as someone is hooked, that is a secondary objective that needs to be completed with some urgency. You can't just let someone die on first hook and expect to survive the match.

Similar with healing. It's more situational than a hook, because you can function while injured and there's no timer, but there are situations where you really should be fully healed (such as unhooking or against a stealth/surprise killer).

And yes, I consider totems a secondary objective, just like gens are for killer. It's completely possible to play a game and win without ever interacting with a totem. And it's also possible to win as killer with an end game build that requires all of the gens to be finished.

But you're just kind of proving my point, that what people want is a *required* secondary objective that doesn't progress the survivors escaping... Which is wanting them to just voluntarily AFK.

My favourite part about the noed changes is that it did absolutely nothing to change the major issues with the perk and instead just was like "Oh nah yk what we'll just add a beacon to find it after it's activated that'll do" like there wasn't a bunch of other, far more creative nerfs, changes, and reworks that could've happened.

It should be relegated to interactions whete the survivor has agency on whether to remove the effect or not, like Victor and chains.

Firstly, just use GBK. It's easier to type, it doesn't make me horrifically uncomfortable, and you don't have to worry.

Secondly, I admit to being wrong that status effects mostly come from addons. However, I also don't think I explained myself particularly clearly, so I'll try and explain what I think I meant.

Incapacitated, as it currently works now, is incredibly strong or incredibly weak with essentially no middle ground. Therefore, I don't think it should be liberally applied to perks, because there's such a massive difference in skill level that it wouldn't be at all balanced or fair. There's no way to make a perk that causes Incapacitated balanced on Blight and Nurse while also balanced on Sadako and Skull Merchant. Therefore, the best course of action would be to apply it only through power useage, to ensure that it's balance can be specifically tweaked on a case by case basis to stop exactly this problem.

The only issue is this then leads to another problem. On powers, most status effects come from addons, and usually there's a brown, yellow, green, and purple addon that applies one status effect (obviously, this changes from killer to killer, but that's the general rule I've observed). Therefore, in order to give it to most killers while avoiding what I'm going to call the Perk Problem, you run into another issue: it just isn't that good on most powers.

A lot of powers are used in a chase, particularly when applying status effects. For example, Nurse, Billy, Wraith, Huntress, Legion, Twins, Pinhead, Nemesis, etc (and yes I'm aware I've listed the 2 that have Incapacitated in their kit by default)- their addons all allow them to apply status effects via hitting a survivor with their power. But when used in this way to apply a status effect, Incapacitated just isn't that good- simply look at Huntress. Applying a status effect that doesn't let you progress the trial to players who already aren't progressing the trial isn't much help, and you can't make the duration long enough to have a meaningful effect because when that happens we get the Eruption Issue™ all over again. Therefore, it'd only work on a certain few killers, who apply Status Effects via addons or their power passively. Think Doctor, Sadako, Pig.

But a lot of these killers wouldn't benefit from that, either. Sadako would gain a great benefit from applying it in a certain area around her TVs, but that would just encourage survivors to turn it off and she'd be locked out of her power. Players with a party hat against Pig already aren't progressing the game. Doctor essentially has Incapacitated via Madness 3.

Therefore, it just doesn't seem worth it. Because of the nature of the Status Effect, it doesn't make sense balance wise to put it on a perk, and on a lot of killers it'd either be broken or useless.

That's why I said that it'd make more sense to just remain attached to certain powers. It's far easier to regulate and control if it's only an effect on a few rather than if it's everywhere.

And as to changing what it does- what are you really even accomplishing there? Why not just implement another Status Effect instead?

Finally, as to why I'm not advocating for new game modes and the like, it's because this isn't the thread for it. To express my opinions on that topic, I'd go to a thread about that topic, not to one on the careful balance and integration of Eruption (back) into the game. I'm capable of having feelings on both topics simultaneously.

I hope this comment helped clear up what I meant, because lord knows I didn't make it easy for you to understand.

Anyway I'm going to sleep lmao 💃

People who say this seem to not know that this is a 4v1, which is why the 1 can get stuff like Incapitated but the 4 can't do the same to the Killer. Literally, these two roles aren't comparable just because of the number difference, to start.

Not to mention that one person on a one person team being unable to do anything isn't the same as two people being unable to do anything on a four person team.

And people who cry actually do go "bad game design", along with using "balance" and "counterplay" as their favorite buzzwords... so this does indeed to have to do with "Survivors crying".