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Gen Times are not a Problem ofc...
Two Games, side by side.
First Game: Twins, I had exactly 2 chases. All Gens were done in 2:58... Two BNPs and Two Prove Thyself...
Second Game: Wesker, no Gen Perks, no Toolboxes, nothing. Had 2 or 3 Chases. All 5 Gens done in 5:40.
But yeah, please lets nerf Eruption. Thats the real problem here...
Comments
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There is no way all the gens were done in 2:58.
Even if you did NOTHING, it would be almost impossible to do that.
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It is possible. Highly unlikely, but possible none the less. Typically a killer will lose at least 2 gens in 90 seconds with a third gen halfway done. If op overcommited to 1 person it's not unthinkable they lost 3 gens in 100 seconds even without toolboxes.
Gen speeds are definitely a problem. Mainly because there are 2 extremes. Some killers can now hold 3 gens for 40+ minutes with CoB + Overcharge, which should never be the case, and survivors can quite easily end a game in 4 minutes with the right perks and items. This forces both sides to bring something to increase / decrease gen speeds because if they don't they might get hit with 1 of these extremes.
It's not just gen speeds that are a problem but also gen regress. Both should be toned down.
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It is theoretically possible.
Practically though? I'm not so sure.
Four Survivors would have to spawn on 4 separate gens. The Killer would need to chase someone without a BNP. I think BNP's save around 30 seconds on a gen, so those gens are likely popping in around 60 seconds. The 3rd will pop in 90, which is a minute and a half.
It's theoretically possible but the Killer would need to be both astronomically unlucky, overcommit AND the Survivors would need good RNG
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Yeah. It's unlikely something like this will happen, thoug it's not uncommon for 4 survivors to spawn on different gens.
I only saw gens fly THAT fast in 1 of my games and it took me about 15 seconds to find out why. Fengs are not supposed to teabag the killer from the shack's roof.
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Feng of that Shack, what is your wisdom
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Some gameplay would be nice. Because if the Gens really were so fast, you probably did not really apply any pressure at all. So seeing how you played and what you might have done wrong would help a lot.
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OFC, this is possible. Math is what it is.
On a side note, I simply refuse to believe that people who play the game as much as I assume respondents to this thread do are ignorant of that set of facts. You don't need a video, you can simply do this on paper.
a full generator is 90 seconds.
One survivor on each generator will mean 3 generators are done in 90 seconds. This allows for 1 survivor to be chased.
The last two generators will be done in 90 seconds, which is 180 total seconds, or 3 minutes. This is 2 seconds longer than stated.
1 BNP applied to each of the last two generators removes 22 seconds from each one, making them 68 second generators. This would total 158 seconds.
PTS reduces a generator time to 45 seconds if two are on it, work that in to the calculations if you want.
But I get the feeling you all know this, you just don't see it as an issue, and I could concur, maybe it occurs so infrequently that it should be ignored.
But that doesn't make it not true, nor does it make it a killer skill issue.
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2 BNP are the problems only. And it should not be a thing anymore.
And a single match with 2 BNP is not the reason why 25sec incap should exist multiple time in a single match that happens every match.
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Survivors didn't like Eruption. So it was changed.
It also didn't really address the issue described above very well, because of reasons.
Maybe, the developers would consider blessing us with a new perk that does provide a way to directly interfere with generator progress or provide regression for them.
I don't personally want the BNPs removed, I just want a counter play option that is more direct than visit each generator, often.
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Toolbox in general and BNP are for decrease Gen time. "Counter play" is anything that extend the Gen time, which is 4 slowdown.
Counter play to tunneling (shorten the chase by keep chasing an injured survivor) is slapping all 2nd chance, which increase the chase time.
Counter play is just doing the opposite thing from the other side.
BNP should gone. Gen slowdown should not be "that strong" because the possibility of 4 Commo toolboxes & 4 BNP exist. Toolbox in general should also be changed to something else.
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If you go back a few months Coconuts RTS had a game on stream where the survivors did all the gens in like 2:48. They had all the things to rush gens other than fast track.
Gens have always been faster than chase time. Chases do not have a set minimum length but generators do.
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Right, we get that. No confusion what so ever on what a toolbox does.
Countering the items and perks that make 3 minute games possible, is what I'm asking for.
And I'm asking that it not be done by nerfing the survivor tools.
I can see how it might be a lot to ask, but given that the developers are paid to develop a game, I think they can come up with something.
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Bro
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1757553781?t=0h10m46s
game starts at around 10:49. 5th gen pops at 13:47.
I dont need to freakin tell you sht
Post edited by Unam on3 -
I chased 2 ppl. There wasnt any more time for anything else. Even if Im doing nothing, gens shouldnt be able to fly that fast.
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So you think it is "ok" for the killer to have to play 4 slowdown perks in order to counter 2 items and 2 perks on survivor side which ultimately leads to 10 perks and 2 items on surv side that are not counterable for the killer?
Shouldnt killer perks be way more powerful than surv perks?
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Countering the gen rush meta with more slowdown perks will work the same way as fighting tunneling meta with anti tunnel perks.
It wont.
Its a core gameplay issue!
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I mean, you took also almost 3 minutes to down your first survivor and hook them.
No amount of gen regression would have saved you there besides Corrupt or deadlock. Not even old eruption.
Basically the survivors were never in any pressure so the gens went flying.
I am not saying you are bad but now seeing the clip it really doesn't surprise me the gens went flying like that. Doesn't help that Garden of joy is also a terrible map for Killer.
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When did I say or think "ok"???
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Your clip above doesn't lead to the actual video so I went to your channel to take a look. I'm suspicious there wasn't something else going on.
10:49 Game starts
11:27 Victor hits Feng and Charlotte starts a chase with Rebecca so two survivors are tied up
12:07 Two gens pop a few seconds after you abandon chase on Rebecca. You start chasing Jeff. They pop simultaneously but only the gen with the Feng had PT active (Feng and Jeff there, Bill on another, Rebecca in chase).
12:59 You drop Jeff. After hooking Jeff you see three survivor auras on three different gens and send out Victor. This takes until 13:47 in total which is when the other 3 gens pop.
So, Prove Thyself did something on one gen but you disrupted Feng and were chasing Rebecca. Victor doesn't take that long to crush so Feng probably went straight back to the gen but both gens popped nearly simultaneously while only one gen could have had the benefits of PT. That was either really bad luck, deliberate communication to arrange it that way, or possibly a subtle hack.
From that, there was 100 seconds from when Jeff started being chased to being hooked and Victor sent to a gen. Your aura reading showed three survivors on three different gens so that is possible but, once again, the gens popped simultaneously even though there was different travel times to the gens. There was enough time for the survivors to have done the gens but the simultaneous pops are what makes me suspicious.
Now, in hindsight, and I'm not criticizing since I'm not saying I would have done any better but there are a couple things that, in hindsight, might have helped assuming everything was legit.
(a) The chase with Rebecca. From landing Victor on Feng you knew two survivors were on that gen. Instead of chasing Rebecca you could have ignored her and focused on gen defense (or forced the pallet drop early and then went to the gen). With two survivors a gen pops fast and you can always chase a survivor again but you can't undo a finished gen.
(b) The chase with Jeff. Jeff was by a strong tile (the shack in GoJ with the pallet by the truck out front) and the gen had just popped along with the other one on that side of the map. If the gen were still up securing the gen with CoB and then dropping Jeff would have made more sense but, with no gens left on that side of the map, it would have been better to go to an area where a gen is and chased the survivor there.
(c) Deadlock would have been very helpful here. The gens went so fast you didn't even get a chance to use CoB and Oppression so that could have slowed them down.
I hope you don't run into that situation again but, if you do, dropping chase earlier to focus on gen defense might help. To be honest, those survivors on that map meant it was going to be a super rough game anyway and the odds were stacked against you at the beginning. The simultaneous gen popping on two occasions even though there were reasons the gens should have popped with at least a few seconds between them makes me suspicious there might have been something else going on. It could have just been a coincidence or a mad level of coordination on a 4 person SWF but it's weird.
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Basekit deadlock would be nice
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The game is severely survivor sided right now, the release of the Skull Merchant doesn't even address any of these issues and feels like another insult to killer players. I've drastically reduced my playtime these past weeks, only playing a single match per night at most before closing the game again. It's simply not fun anymore.
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You dont get my point.
No matter how bad I played this game (and I played super bad) It shouldnt be even remotely possible to finish five objectives that are balanced around 90 sec completion time each, to be finished in under 3 minutes with even one or two ppl not being on the objective the whole time (which means effectively less than 40 sec. per gen, which is almost 2/3 less than they should be!)
Even the wesker game which is later in the stream. I played super bad aswell. Still 5 Gens in 5 Minutes without any gen progression perks or items. You cannot balance a game around 90 sec. Gens and make tham fly at almost half the time and then expect killers to just play around that fact.
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I don't think i am good enough to know if they were hacking or not.
I was just wondering how would survivors get the time to do gens that fast, so i was pointing out that they weren't under pressure which helped them.
They could be hacking or not, and the map is bad for you. I just think that are points in the match that you could have done better.
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When you only have 2 chases in 2:58, it becomes much more likely
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First of all thanks for your headsup, I exchanged the link.
I went over that game two times.
No matter how i play it out, in that setup, with this killer and the perks i have chosen there was literally no chance for me to win.
Which, tbh makes me really angry to get into a game that is not winnable by default.
I saw other games going as fast as this without the double gen pops...
May they have hacked or not, the issue with gen times is at hand.
Thanks though for your time on the answer, I appreciate it!
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Thanks and I do agree with you; that game might just not have been winnable. Garden of Joy, spread out gens and good survivors with toolboxes and prove thyselves. You were at a heavy disadvantage at the start and, even with Deadlock, I don't think you would have done anything more than drag it out a couple more minutes.
A Nurse, Blight or maybe Artist might have had a chance but the Twins with their inherent slowdown just from switching from Charlotte to Victor; well, I don't see that match as anything but stacked against you from the beginning.
I understand how frustrating that is and I empathize. If it helps I don't see any real chance of victory with the Twins and that RNG for that match either.
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Source: just trust me bro
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He has a link to the match that you can watch. Its in the thread, o follow up from him.
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Yeah because every single game of DBD is gonna be like that
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Dude, calm down. Why are you being so aggressive over nothing?
He had some bad games, in conditions where he was in heavy disadvantaged. No need to act like that
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The fact that the gens pop simultaneously is sending off alarm bells.
You didn't play that game very well, but it may not have been your fault, I'll have to look closer when I'm more conscious.
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I suggested what I did because a similar thing has happened to me, and although it is annoying, I see it as extremely skilled gameplay on the survivor side, so I don't want it removed.
In short, any single generator can be removed too quickly if the survivors want to do so.
I think an ability to counter that would be good, if you mean that ability should be part of the killers base kit, that sounds like a great solution.
As long as the killer has to go do something to make it happen, and right now, drop chase and visit all the generator sites isn't good enough.
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So you think holding M1 and occasionally hitting space while your buddy tells you hes been chased by the killer is "skilled gameplay" ?
Nah, i disagree!
The issue is not a perk, to slow down gens. There are already plenty of those.
The solution has to be a fixed time of gens (on both ends) that cant be extended or cutted.
F.E. if targeted gen time is 90 sec. they cant go faster than 80 not slower than 100 sec... After that, chases and killer abilities can be balanced around that.
You cannot balance around 90 second gens when they can go in 60, 40 or 150 seconds....
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You dont get the point either.
Its not about the fact that every game is like this. Even when standing still and doing nothing, gens shouldnt pop at 1/3 or 2/3 of the time they are supposed to pop, when on the other hand, chases/downs have no minimum timer and hook states cannot be cut short.
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