lets discuss what will get updated for both sides once enough data has been collected
with the new hud helping out solo survivors not become potatoes (at lower mmr) and be more efficient in the trials will the data show that survivors still need to be buffed? on the survivor side i can still see a basekit ds/kindred still being added
or will the data show how lower tier killers need some changes? i want to know your opinions on which low tier killers are going to be buffed and why?I am at least holding out that trapper and pig get more traps to start the match with if nothing else...i know pig can never receive a buff its the meme
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Trapper does not need a buff. He's already extremely obnoxious. People are just stuck with this myth that "Trapper is a weak M1 killer" because they blindly quote Otzdarva, but they don't realize that 1) Otz rates killers without add-ons, and 2) DH nerf was massive for Trapper.
Trapper is one of the most addon dependent killers. If you play him without addon he's weak as #########, but with his best add-ons he's an A-tier killer at least. So if they buff him they should nerf his strong add-ons first (iri stone especially), otherwise prepare for a rise in DCs.
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DH still ######### over Trapper just as hard as any other killer even though you can’t dash through his traps anymore. And while his Iri’s help a lot, he’s still an M1 who has to pick up and set traps which aren’t even that good in the first place.
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This has to be satire lmao
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Trapper with Iri stone is not a M1 killer, he's a 3-gen camper, you're obviously playing him very wrong if you call him a M1 killer.
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any buffs that can be discussed?
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i will point out that blight (arguably s tier) is strong as all hell withouth addons and even stronger with his most busted addons and hasnt been nerfed. not sure what the dc stats are vs him currently though
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All the HUD does at lower MMR is remind you that your teammates aren't doing anything 80% of the time.
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Pig needs a buff to everything but her traps. Her ambush and crouch are both weak and need to be more fluid to make her feel better
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Of course. And Myers is the strongest killer in the game with Tombstone Piece.
Over millions of years different species have evolved. Most humans have something called "eyes". These "eyes" can be used to spot and avoid traps. The Iri Stone is worthless against people with the power of these "eyes". The Bloody Coil can help but that's about it. The only thing that makes Trapper shine is Lockdown / Basement Trapper. That is pretty much uncounterable but 2 escapes are definitely possible against it. 3, if you're team is really good and doesn't make stupid mistakes.
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Again shows me you don't know how to play Trapper.
You don't place your traps hoping that survivors won't see it. Instead, you place traps at vaults/pallets to deny the loop. Good survivors will spot the traps, yes, but it doesn't matter, because by the time they spot it, they have already committed to this loop, and they will now take a hit regardless of what their "eyes" can see. In old DBD, survivors could dead hard through traps. Now they can't.
The only counter to this strategy now, is for survivors to disarm your traps in advance. But that counterplay becomes extremely difficult with Iri stone, as not only they'll have to regularly disarm the same traps over and over, but the trap can become active while they are looping.
Otz plays without addon, so for him it's important to hide the traps and reduce the chance of survivors disarming it. But that's not something you care about with Iri Stone, in fact most of the time you'd rather prefer survivors disarm your traps so they're not on gens.
And I'll say it again, this whole strategy only has become possible after July 2022 when survivors could no longer DH through traps. You thinking that Bloody Coil is better than Iri Stone was correct prior to this patch, but it is completely wrong in 2023.
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Survivors are weak and need to be buffed further. HUD icons feels like cosmetics change, killers are too much ahead and powercreep every update. A lot of survivors perks should be buffed in the way the did with windows and any means necessary.
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It is unfortunately not that simple.
Sure, solo queue is horrible (imo, it has never sucked so hard)
But survivor is still not 'weak'. If you get a team of 4 good survivors who decide to not play 'nice' (M1 gen, syringes etc.) then it's unwinnable for most killers.
Which leads to a balancing nightmare. Killers believe the game is survivor-sided because they face these sweaty survivors. But meanwhile, solo queue survivors lose all their games and think the game is killer-sided. Both sides are actually right from their perspective.
The average killrate is 60% which seems like a balanced number, but the reality is, half the playerbase wins 80% of their game, and the other half loses 80%.
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You’re trippin lmao. In what way have killers been “powercreeping”?
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Oh my goodness. Why did I never think of that? Thank you for telling me where to place traps.
Seriously, it's not that hard to figure that part out. Funnily enough survivors will mostly ignore these loops. And as soon as you're a few meters away someone will disarm your traps. Even with the Bloody Coil your traps will get disarmed. The Iri Stone is not gonna stop survivors from doing gens and running away from your traps. If you really think Trapper is anywhere near one of the A-tier killers, I can only assume you mostly go against survivors that play with their feet.
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Good survivors won't even try to disarm your traps once they realize you have Iri stone...
It doesn't matter if they successfully disarm the trap, because the trap will reset literally WHILE THEY ARE LOOPING THE TILE. It's funny how you claim yourself that "it only works against survivors that play with their feet" and yet you give bad advice on how to play against it... You also keep mentioning bloody coil for some reason, but Iri stone should almost always be played with one of the bags (purple ideally), otherwise it's way less strong because it keeps resetting the random traps.
"Survivors will mostly ignore these loops" easier said than done, that often means they will lose the chase especially if you camp a 3-gen from the start and trap every other loop. Again, maybe this counterplay used to work pre 6.1 but with DH nerf and the 3-gen meta it just doesn't work anymore.
Give this add-on a try again. You'll almost never lose
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i wanna ask you a Question. How Many Hours do you have in DBD ?
And how Much of that Time is Spend playing Killer ?
But most importantly, how much of that time is spend playing Trapper.
Because Otz has around 10.000 Hours in Dead by Daylight and frequently puts out Guides for Killers, Perks and their Addons. He knows what Trappers Addons can do. But do you really know as much as him ? Are you sure you know more then some Guy who basically makes a living off of playing this Game and is known to know much more about it then most ?
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thank you for explaining this. I feel like you understand trapper better then otz or any other trapper main player. people don't really understand the strength of iri stone trapper and strength of 3 gen with territorial killers. Iri stone fixes trapper kit. Whenever I play trapper, I rarely ever lose with iri stone. I don't understand why people think trapper is so weak. There is also this weird conception that bloody coil is his best add-on. its so weird. I don't think dead hard ever impacted trapper's viability with iri stone because even if a survivor dh through trap. you just follow them around the loop and now they've wasted DH and still have to walk into trap or leave loop which results free m1 zoning hits. the premise of stealth trapping is not just viable with current trapper's mechanics and SWF knowing every trap is.
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I end up playing gen jockey most of the time when I queue survivor. Typically with 3+ gens done myself if I don't spend all game being chased. It feels painfully rare to see others on gens. -.-
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what buffs do you feel survivors still need besideds perk changes?
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after analyzing all the data and reading all the feedback from the community, the devs will ultimately reduce the number of puzzle boxes you have to try to remove Pig’s reverse bear trap.
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Best case scenario is M1 killers will get buffs in some way, maps get reworked to be better for both sides, and gen repair/regression gets a fair change.
Worst case scenario, toolbox buffs.
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If there were maps with grass that wasn't the the huntress map maybe trapper would be okay
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How exactly do killers powercreep every update when the last time we got any killer buffs (beside new killers) was in July 2022? It has only been nerfs and survivor buffs since. Survivors got base kit BT, a HUD that brings them closer to SWF level, a buff to AMN (an already good perk) and a nerf to Eruption that got pushed out due to "the amount of feedback it was getting".
What else would you like? Base kit Unbreakable? That's still on the table. More survivor sided maps? Look at the recent changes to the Red Forest and Shelter Woods. They all got stronger for survivors.
Meanwhile they didn't even touch DH again (most talked about perk in the forum) and released a killer that is quite weak and only thrives in defending 3 gens. Can't wait for the inevitable nerfs to CoB and Overcharge as well.
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Otz never said anything about Iri stone Trapper. He's mostly speaking about addonless Trapper, which is weak.
I don't know why, but he always insists on playing Trapper with stupid/meme addons, and always rates killers as if they were played by an idiot. He hasn't uploaded a single video with Iri stone in the past 2 years (outside of meme builds).
Like if you watch his own tier list, 4 our 5 of the F-tier killers have addons which completely change how they are played (Sadako, Clown, Myers, Trapper), and if you listen to what he actually says, even him acknowledges that the addons elevate their killers but that he ignores them in the rating. Eg. he says that Tombstone Myers is "disgusting and would be much, much higher in the tier list if rated with this single add-on", and yet he still puts Myers in F-tier and rates his addons as "average". So, people skim through the video, don't listen to what he actually says, and propagate the myths that these killers are weak.
It seems that for Otz, a good killer is a killer that must perform well without addon, but this is absurd, nothing prevents you from using these add-ons in-game...
And even if you insist on ignoring addons, he has a 50 winstreak on trapper without any addon at all... so what exactly does it mean that a killer is weak, if you can win 95% of your games with a meme build?
The only video where I've found Otz actually talk about Iri Stone is his "best addons for each killer" and he rated it A-tier but even there if you listen to what he actually says "this is assuming you don't play it with purple bag otherwise it's much stronger"... so yet again, it seems the rating system is arbitrary, what exactly prevents you from equipping both...? And keep in mind this was pre-6.1 when Iri Stone was much weaker since survs could DH through your trap and extend the loop.
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The problem with the DH thing you mention is that it didn't work at god pallets. Now with post-nerf DH you can trap god pallets in advance near your 3-gen, I think this makes Iri stone particularly stronger than the best addons. Anyway I agree that the stone was already quite strong pre-6.1
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The HUD doesn't stop potatoes potatoing.
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I agree that Pig needs a buff but I don't think that giving her more traps is the way to do it. Her traps are the strongest aspect of her power and they provide strong passive slowdown. The real issue with Pig comes from her stealth and ambush in my opinion. Both of these are underpowered and diminish her chase potential. I would like to see an increase in her base movement speed while crouched and an increase in the transition speed between crouched and uncrouched.
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i can see it now gens take to long so bnps will be buffed back to their original state haha
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Honestly, potatoes will still be potatoes. It was not the lack of information that was making them potatoes. The information just makes the decent players better because they have more info to work with. The potatoes will still spend most of their time hiding rather than working on gens, making rescues, or recovering when downed. What gets me is that even with the new information survivors still get to the second hook phase on their first hook, or die on their second hook, because other survivors can't be bothered going for a rescue.
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Yay and nay, trapper could do with slight buff to make him more consistent but I would stay trapper should never be meta. Sad to say about the face of the game but a Trapper who could actually do his job would be obnoxious, never touch the grass and never vault windows and half the pallets are unusable and oh wow now basement is trapped and we can't rescue them. I don't believe Trapper isn't too far off a good spot and DH change was great for him (not saying DH isn't good but trapper deals with it quite nicely) and the perk changes to more passive options for killer helps him too but some small buff could be nice. I wouldn't mind having traps spawn a bit closer together (mostly on larger maps) and a slight increase to base setting speed to make him a bit quicker at the start and help him get going.
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Personally I'd like some slight changes to the maps. Some maps are too weak for survivor while some are too good for killer. Midwhich has extemely weak loops for survivor making it very hard to win (while having horendous hook spawns and encourging holding w making it less fun for killer) and Dead Dwag has very small gen spreads making playing defensive very strong as killer as multiple 3-gen exist (while encouraging them to never interact with the main building due to how strong it's, helping enforce a 3-gen meta on that map). Other maps have similar problems however these stand out as they have factors that make them unfun as killer and survivor. Suffopit and Resting place are similar in this reguard too.
On the otherside, many large maps are also very safe making it so killers struggle to win in both the 1v1 and 1v4 (prime examples being Borgo and Garden of Joy), large maps are fine but they need weaker loops to be balanced (such as Sheltered Woods or Blood Lodge). I would also like to mention Coal Tower. If you told me coal tower had an average kill rate I'd believe you, if you told me Blight and Nurse have twice the kill rate as Pig or Legion on that map I'd believe you. The extremly strong interconnected loops of the map makes it boarderline unplayable for killers with weak chase powers while if the killer has a strong chase power and can shut down the loops the survivors suddenly have nothing going for them on this very small map, it's extremly polarising and matches feel like they're won or lost more by killer selection here than anywhere else.
I personally don't think maps are generally too killer or survivor sided (it's worth noting that maps are designed to help survivors protect themselves) but are too polorised in their strength to be considered balanced, I'd like to see more of a focus on single map realms in this reguard as they're easier to abuse with map offerings.
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Basically Combat Straps + Johns Medical File Basekit.
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Exactly. Combat Straps feels essential for ambush because it gives you some counterplay when survivors simply decide to hold W to the next loop. John's Medical File feels essential for stealth because otherwise you're wasting too much time. They could probably go even further with a buff but I think making these two add-ons part of Pig's basekit would be an excellent first step in the right direction.
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Not to mention that he also used to main trapper.
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