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lets discuss skull merchant/knight 3 gens are not hard to counter just adapt
remember they dont have the lethality of a nurse...they are m1 killers at heart
after playing most of the weekend against a variation of skull merchants and knights the way to beat the 3 gen situation is quite similar
1) use a good toolbox with bnp and prove thyself/tenacity/sprint burst/deja vu (hyperfocus if you are good or resilience if you want to work injured or circle of healing boon setup away from the 3 gens) and a large map offering if desired
2) dont do the first gen immediately look for a 3 gen and observe the killer see if they are doing a 3 gen set up a circle of healing boon meanwhile or store energy from another gen if possible (you wont lose it if they dont leave the 3 gen you wont get hit)
3)if the killer sets up a 3 gen then split up into pairs and attack the two furthest gens in the 3 gen. one person does the drone/leads the guard away the other person does the gen as efficiently as possible. when the killer comes to your gen,sprint burst away if you have to take a hit take it. using coms or even the survivor hud the other team can see when one survivor is in a chase.
4) break the 3 gen and marvel as either killer isnt as oppressive as you perceived it...yes i have done this mostly as a solo and even easier as a swf all weekend. not saying the matches will be quick but once the 3 gen is dealt with it really isnt so bad
what i find interesting about both of these killers is that they force survivors to change their gameplans and it seems hard for some people to adapt. before you say i have to change my perk/addon build out to accomodate 2 killers every killer has a different counter play (medkits useless vs a plague for example or its a legion split up and dont do gens together) that is the beauty of dbd (look at killers adapting to sniffing butts before swinging)
edit: i implore you to stop dcing and let bhvr gather the data from matches. dced matches dont count that is why we have such ridiculous stats like the nurse having a low kill rate...you want the game to be better than finish your game (or run up to the killer and go for that 5 gen loop you are capable of doing)
your thoughts?
Comments
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No, it is almost impossible to break 3-gen againts SK or even Knight. I played few matches with this playstyle myself and sometimes I even ended the game sooner than I had to because I felt bad and it was just really tedious and boring game at that point (around 30+ min).
There are streamers, SWF group(s) who have thousands of hours in this game and they are rly good in this game and even they have rly hard time dealing with this.
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I wish I knew where all these 3 genning SM's and Knights are because I wanna see if it's as bad as everyone says it is. I've only faced a few of either killer this week and the worst thing anything of them did was a SM that camped basement.
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So basically, you have to be in a very coordinated SWF to break a 3 gen. All you’re doing is showing how strong a 3 gen is and impossible to break as a solo survivor
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Generally, survivors should be breaking a 3 gen as soon as they log into the match or die trying. Either the match becomes winnable or you end the match in a reasonable amount of time.
That said, that's not what regularly happens in most matches or is considered since many people ignore the meta strategy and focus on the micro (looping, etc).
Since it isn't considered that often my opinion is that perks like Deja Vu, Potential Energy and Built to Last. They're quite often ignored and especially so if the survivor just wants to loop or flashlight save instead of doing gens but they're invaluable in breaking 3 gens. Considering how often 3 gen situations are popping up those perks should be looked at again.
Of course after there will be complaints about gen rush builds but I can't think of a time I've played when there wasn't a complaint about gen slowdown perks or strategies and simultaneously complaints about gen rush builds.
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The only real advice here is bring perks but even the likes of potential energy can only do so much against Call of brine and overcharge
The problem is the perks right now. Call of brine and overcharge are designed around 3 genning and reward constantly kicking the same gen without interaction with the survivors
Change them and I doubt merchant and knight would be oppressive in any real way
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it is just a war of attrition in the end 4 vs 1 not saying it is ez mode but eventually one side wins
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i honestly dont think it is as widespread as people believe
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no you can do it as a solo as well the hud information is right there...when not in chase do the gen if chase is dropped(looking at the hud) run away from the gen
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i do agree it is the perks stacking that are the problem not the killer let it be call of brine or overcharge not together that is the combo that makes 3 genning possible at the moment
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yes 100 percent your first 2 sentences...survivors only make the game as long as they want them to be. attack the problem headon...how is it different from previous gen rushing strategies?
if people want to have fun looping/bodyblocking/saboing/flashlight saving then that is on them
i would like to see gen rush perks stacking like hyperfocus with tenacity to be looked at as well
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it is cob with overcharge stacking it should be one or the other honestly
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A lot of your suggestions are still VERY SWF oriented. You say 'just take these perks', but it is not that simple. You need multiple people running multiple gen perks. Just bringing one isn't going to cut it. One person alone isn't going to be enough. At the very least, the team needs a back up. Solo cannot reliably coordinate this, much less the rest of what you describe. And without the right loadouts, the rest is entirely moot. The same issue exists with 'just bring a toolbox'. If the stars manage to align and you have at least 2 people running the right builds and bringing the strongest toolbox, it still may not be enough against a Killer running high regression and relentlessly patrols gens.
The above doesn't even touch the controversy surrounding 'gen rush'. Imagine a player who isn't treating 3-gens like their favorite children getting hit - by solos no less - who come into the match armed to teeth to push gens as fast as possible.
Lastly, I don't think any base strategy - Killer or Survivor - should require the other team to bring multiple perks, items, and/or add-ons to have either a shot of winning, or at the very least, not having a 30+ minute back and forth. DBD simply isn't a deep enough game to support those kinds of matches being entertaining in the long term.
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Yeah I’m not sure where these mythical unbreakable 3 gen games or 3 gen games that last an hour are as I never see them. I play way more than the average person and solo queue at that and these games are nearly non existent. I can’t even remember the last game I lost because of a 3 gen.
I think people lost a lot of matches that have a 3 gen because they or their team are playing bad and instead of taking accountability for skill issues or bad choices it’s easier to just blame a 3 gen or gen kick perks as why they lost.
This mythical 3 gen issue is honestly a boogieman that doesn’t realistically exist. It can happen here and there, not saying ever, but rare enough that it really isn’t a problem.
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skull merchant and knight have no mobility. you can pre-shift w from generators. if they commit to you, they lose. if they do not commit to you, you can chip at generator and gen regression is slower then progression.
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No killer would be “oppressive in any real way” if you nerfed those.
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Are you seriously saying that blight wouldn’t be oppressive without CoB overcharge? Most blights don’t even bother with them because he can get downs so quickly and is better off with PR
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Totally disagree. SM with a 3 gen is almost impossible to beat. Knight is difficult too but not as bad as SM. Against regular killers 3 gens are ok.. but,
i tested out this theory playing SM and was stalling games for 30 minutes to 1 hour against thousand hour swfs where I had no perks and no add ons equipped. SM 3 gen is literally life draining at this stage unfortunately. I probably won’t play her again because of this..
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lmao
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A 3-genning killer can dodge lobbies if they see a toolbox.
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“Survivors only makes the game as long as they want them to be”. In other words, if you don’t want to be stuck in an infinitely long 3-gen standoff match, you either have to give yourself up to the killer or DC.
ok got it - thanks for the helpful advice
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“Mythical boogie man”. OK. So I guess the huge numbers of people complaining about this (including myself) are just liars?
I believe your experience, and you shouldn’t dismiss the experiences of other players
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"Just lose, 4head" /s
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Obviously excluding Nurse and Blight since they’re literally in their own universe. Everyone else though would have no good perks for defending gens and would suffer immensely.
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Artist and Pinhead has PR DMS
Every M1 killer has PR and or jolt. It’s really not that bad and if it ends up being bad buff pop back up to add an actual interactive slowdown perk
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It's not impossible
It's just extremely tedious, boring gameplay that nobody ACTUALLY likes. People will say they love going from gen to gen holding the space bar but there's no way they actually enjoy doing it for gameplay. Some like doing it to make survivors mad which, yeah.
In the time you spend trying to 'win' a genlock knight/skull merchant game, you could already be in your next match getting to actually play the game
I'd rather lose then play like this, either role.
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DC matches don't count toward MMR and published kill totals, but I don't think that means the data just entirely disappears from BHVR's radar.
The difference between Knight/Skully and Plague is that what you are suggesting is to take perks to counter 2 killers vs the thought that there is a small chance a killer might counter your perk combo.
As others have said, most of what you post about has to do with SWF.
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they happen but it is down to survivors rushing gens without strategy and they end up giving the killer the pressure...dbd has always been about the killer capitalizing on survivor mistakes. you either run deja vu or do every other gen not all the gens on the same side of the map
the only killers that can start a match and defend a 3 gen are trapper (debatable) hag maybe doc and obviously knight and the merchant but non of these killers has the lethality that makes it hopeless unless there is a snowball effect.
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exactly this...it is just chip away at the gens and run away preemptively
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I never dismissed the experience of others, I’m sure they do experience it. What I actually said was that the 3 gen issues they’re experiencing is more relating to a them or their team skill issue.
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Yeah and realistic most the 3 gen killers don’t have the lethality as you mentioned so the survivors just go on all different gens and will slowly progress them faster than the killer can regress them even with full gen kick perks. There’s also going to be a CoH sitting out there for each person to also solo reset.
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Yeah this ^
This is generally why most 3 gens lose unless the survivors play bad.
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I wonder what could be done to make low mobility killers more effective vs shift-w. Maybe they could use a perk that gives them haste effect when they walk near generators. I am not entirely sure. Many killer feel like a lost cause.
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this equates to "Prepare for it before it happens". You shouldn't need to. And for this, you need lots of communication, and go sacrifice lots of pressure earlygame to try break it before it even happens
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3 genning as skull merchant with full gen slowdown on a map like RPD, where drones can be placed on different levels to patrol gens has to be the most miserable experience ever. I played vs that a few days ago and it went on forever.
If you're not in a full, decent SWF, just go next. Saves you a lot of time.
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It is a difficult problem.
I think the best solution is probably shrinking maps to make the hold w less viable against m1 killers. Like let's use Coal Tower as an example (referencing map size here, not layout), on this map holding w isn't nearly as viable against m1 killers as most other maps.
Hold w being viable is a symptom of maps being too large essentially.
Hold w can also be reduced by more LoS blockers in map design so they have less heads up that you're coming. Some of the worst hold w maps are the ones you can see the killer coming from a mile away. Think about most indoor maps for example, you don't generally speaking see as much hold w on these maps because they don't have a clear idea of where exactly you're coming from.
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coal tower is pretty big length wise so I would not say that hold-w is ineffective on it. your solution to making maps smaller is not correct. your asking maps to be more circular similar to Wrecker Yard because circular maps create dead ends. I do not see this ever becoming true in DBD because many dbd maps are licensed. Badham for example is licensed map. Haddonfield is licensed map. they are never going to be circular and maps probably should not be all circular because its dull and boring. You need a solution that is more generic and keeps the game fun for survivor while solving killer issues.
I think the real problem behind it is that killer movement speed is too slow outside of chase, but increasing their m/s outside chase is difficult because it is possible to exploit m/s outside chase. Just look at Old legion moonwalk where players could look at the floor while following the survivor to deplete the deep wound meter. Its certain puzzling problem to look at.
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Im not going to use my 2 hours of gaming for 3 matches of DBD.
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I didn't say the shape of coal tower, I said the size. You're referencing shape. I do think hold w is way less effective on coal tower than most maps. You can wedge people on corners. I don't think circular is necessarily the sole solution. Also, they can adjust the map sizes and shape even if it's licensed.
I don't think anything similar to increased move speed outside of chase is ever going to happen, nor do I think it's a good idea. Map size and shape are the best solution in my opinion that's actually feasible and realistic.
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You can wedge people on corners.
I don't think so.
Map size and shape are the best solution in my opinion that's actually feasible and realistic.
I do not think it is realistic.
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"I don't think so."
There are 3 gens on the ends with corners.
"I do not think it is realistic."
More realistic than any other option. A passive out of combat move speed boost for m1's is never going to happen, map reworks do though.
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I am just saying that map rework rarely shrink the map. I believe it has to do with the idea of map variety. you know, every map being different and fresh towards gameplay. I am not saying that haste will happen. I am just saying that lack of mobility on non-mobile killers in regards to yoyoing generator is severe weakness for many killers. You don't really see proper yoyoing unless your playing vs strong SWF team. its fairly uncommon for soloq. that is why I think 3 gens a lot stronger than you might think in the game because few survivors know how to play against it in the first place though I will admit that some maps that highly favor 3 gens can be unwinnable for survivor if the killer is competent with gen-kick setup.
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You're absolutely right my friend, but you're fighting windmills here. People tell you it's impossible to beat 3gens because they don't have the skills. People refuse to adapt because they wanna play with their fun perks but expect an ez win at the same time. And if they have a match that lasts longer than 10 minutes, they're mad because they want to get back into the lobby simulator asap. People act like they're playing every match against a hardcore 3gen enjoyer. Then they should have learned by now how to counter it, right?
By the way, you forgot about Blast Mine and Prove Thyself. A 3gen can also be broken very well with this. BNP isn't even necessary, I never play with it.
I'm a Solo Q veteran and strangely enough I don't have any issues with 3gens either. The only thing that kills me is incompetent mates, but I've gotten used to that now.
When people say it's impossible to beat an SM or a Knight, I can't take them seriously. The truth is that a lot of people don't like the gameplay of these killers per se, and that's a point. If you don't like 3gen tactics, that's ok, complain. But don't pretend these tactics are op and not beatable.
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Very well said 'soloQ veteran.'
I am the perkless Clown who 4k's every match on Mother's Dwelling and I can't take any complaint in this game seriously.
It's most definitely always a skill issue.
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Why are so many here complaining about cob and overcharge stacking? if the killer is 3-genning and your mates have some brain so they are focussing another gen instead of the one you were working on, you just can tap the gen, hit the skillcheck (not very difficult) and you will easily make more progress, because even at the maximum of cob + overcharge (which is after 30s) it is just as fast as one survivor repairing and if you really need so much time to tap a gen...its your fault.
Be aware, while you are working on a gen, if you see the killer or hear his tr just get off the gen. Wait until he kicked the gen and go back to it, because the killer has to go back to the other gens. What regression do we have in that case? 5%? Eazy repaired within a few seconds.
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you are right i forgot to put blast mine which is a great time waster against gen kicking perks (and if the survivor decides to hide around the gen gives them time to run away). prove thyself is good vs knights/merchants/twins when people should be grouped up in pairs but more situational against say a legion or plague where you want to seperate and finish gens alone.
i know about solo hell believe me and it has improved with the new hud...having bad teammates who refuse to adapt and learn are just growing pains but they will only get better as long as they try and not just dc vs the killer early in the game (even against that "impossible" 3 gen scenario)
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much respect to that level of skill and dedication on getting good with clown
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the only reason i bring up the stacking is that it might be seen as to op vs newer survivors (the ones who cant hit the skil check and dont go back to tap the gen).
i agree with everything you commented on except to be wary about sticking around the gen in case the killer has nowhere to hide and the survivor is without distortion(and not good at looping)
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When even otz is getting frustrated with SM and making jokes about the games lasting 45 min.
Yeah, this is not good.
Either she or CoB/overcharge are toasted.
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Do you expect anyone to believe you and take you seriously when you proclaim yourself as a ‘solo q veteran’.
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Takeaway from this post: Always play in a swf. Honestly this whole debate isn't whether or not it's hard, it's the fact that there's no fun to be had playing a match with little interaction from the killer side at all. It's also baffling to see people defending this play style that's so obviously unhealthy and unfun for the game.
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