Survivors cant be satisfied
I dont know how else to phrase it.
Looking at different forums and different opinions, I get the feeling that Survivors are generally a unhealthy element in the way the game is discussed.
Like, recently I read "Why dont knight or Skull Merchant commit to every chase when I wanna bait them into running after me for 3 minutes and instead only protect their 3gen?"
And they dont get why. I recently came back and decided to play mostly knight.
I dont go for meta, I play with his base perks and the Executioner Perk that makes me undetectable when damaging gens.
And here is your answer: because at a certain level "committing to chases" is just not fun?
They are always the same, running from pallette to pallette and being at the mercy of survs choosing how much time they get to add to the chase.
In the meantime at the other end of the map 3 people are "Proving themselves" using their "Potential Energy" to pop gens. And when I stop committing to chases I am just "camping a 3gen" and when I committ to chases I get pallette blinded, stunned and then teabagged when I inevitably lose.
Which gets to the core of the problem:
Toxic playstyles reproduce toxic playstyles.
When 90% of Killers have to depend on Survivors ######### up to even have a bit of hope to win, then it's not too unexpected that they use toxic "unfair" playstyles because they know that this guarantees them at least a limit amount of success. IT just feels like BHVR mostly tries to stomp out toxic Killer playstyles (anti camping, anti tunneling, more and more immensely usefull survivor perks( off topic who the ######### thought Blastmines where a fun idea? A free killer stun that I cant predict and will always run into as long as I at least somewhat depend on Gen damage?))
So why is the base gameplay loop not finally addressed? It places most of the power in the hands of the survivors, unless you decide to learn one of the killers specifically designed to handle these issues, but when you play them you also get flamed for playing the meta and therefor being bad at the game.
I really dont get why, when already significantly catered too, Survivors still cry about it, when Killers feel like they have to play dirty to have even some fun.
Comments
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You can play almost every single Killer at a high level and do perfectly fine in 95% of your games.
Killers have received significant buffs in the last year.
People are upset that SM and Knight seemingly must hold 3-gens if played optimally. I've actually found Knight to be fairly oppressive in chases, but SM is most certainly not.
If you are playing against meta Survivors and you refuse to play optimally or use optimal perks, you should not expect to win and we should not rebalance the game to allow you to win.
Likewise, Potential Energy is a horrible perk and Prove really isn't good.
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"If you refuse to optimize you shouldnt be upset that the game isnt fun" is not as strong as an argument as you think.
Tell me, why is Knight oppressive in chases.
He is basically a M1. If he goes into his power, he doesnt see you, he only hears, and he goes into a static animation and you can just run. Even better if you just make a 90° turn any direction.
The main element of chases is pallettes (and maybe vaults)
At Vaults Killers are baseline disadvantaged because they cant rush or go fast unless you play specific Killers or take the Clown Perk.
At pallettes you have literally 0 power. You either need to win the chase before a pallette or be forced into a lose-lose every time. You Either enter Pallette and get stunned, you loop around pallette and can only win if the survivor is bad, they drop pallette early and you need to either break pallette, and give them a headstart to the next pallette (or get blinded), or you need to abandon chase.
You can play the game by flowchart and win. And while you are in chase the others pop gen after gen.
Rebalancing the game should be the core aspect when killers base kits are doomed to fail.
The problem isnt being bad the problem being that your performance depends more on surv skill than your own.
People like to say the game is about mindgames, but it isn't. It's a reaction game, and survivors are always free to react.
You wanna deny that survs are catered to, but when was the last time a killer perk became baseline and when the last a survivor perk became baseline?
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Didn't killers get basekit tier 1 brutal strength and 2 stacks of stbfl as default
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Whenever I play survivor or killer I can be satisfied with EVERYTHING cause I know it's just a game. Unfortunately I cannot say the same for ANY of you guys. I mean you right now, creating us v them thread is quite literally complaining about the thing your discussing? None of you guys can be satisfied until killers are basically stuffed animals chasing people and survivors are allowed to stay alive as long as some blonde chick tripping in the woods during a chase scene and never getting up. Please let's not
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But games are supposed to be fun. If you keep stuffing survs with basekit perks while they already have advantage at each interaction, it stops being fun for killers. And it feels like for every corn killers are thrown, survivors get access to the granary.
I get that this is an asymmetric game, but there has to be a reason, that the Blood Point Bonus is on Killery 90% of the time.
It's an "us vs them" topic, because it's asymmetric, how can it not be, when everytime survivors cry that killers are "doing something toxic" they get thrown some basekit perks, but when Killers have problems it's just "play meta perks lol"
I dont want to have overwhelming advantage, but I'd like it, if I wasnt simply ######### backwards for playing a certain killer or without certain perks or addons.
If you are fine with the game as is, cool for you, but some people would actually like an experience where their skill is more important for winning, than whether or not enemy survs will let you have fun or not, more important than whether you have leveled the correct killers so you have the correct perks to actually win with.
The reason this is an "us vs them" is because BHVR are clearly favoring 1 side and I am pretty sure it's not killers.
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Couldnt find anything about stbfl in the patchnotes
And was brutal strength really relevant? The time is still enought to be blinded while breaking.
Meanwhile Survivors got BT.
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As if killers aren’t on here every day asking for every single survivor item and strong perk to be nerfed into oblivion so they can 4K every single match for life 🤣🤣
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Which side is currently so ridiculously underplayed, that they have that +100% Bloodpoints bonus almost 24/7?
Maybe it is time Survivors get nerfed?
I am just saying. Considering the fact that they got BT for free and have that really unfun to play against version of DH now, Survivors seem awefully insistent on getting even more basekit perks.
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Well if u're gonna q as killer and camp a 3 gen from the start of the game do not expect people to be happy about it and be nice :)
Post edited by Rizzo on8 -
Its not survivors, its players that wont ever be satisfied
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And here is your answer: because at a certain level "committing to chases" is just not fun?
Then quit.
Don't make it everyone else's problem.
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The developers put the mechanics and the tools in the game to support these styles.
They clearly must test internally to make sure the mechanics work.
They also put perk counters into the game for such playstyles.
There are only so many ways to make a variation on killers chasing survivors, so we have the defensive killers.
Its not the players fault for playing as planned.
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It's been so much harder since the hud update and killers pretty much have bonus nonstop when I play.
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Which side is currently so ridiculously underplayed, that they have that +100% Bloodpoints bonus almost 24/7?Survivors. Barring a little bit of time in the evening where it swings to even and occasionally killer .
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You can play almost every single Killer at a high level and do perfectly fine in 95% of your games.
What does doing perfectly fine mean? What is the end score?
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2 things can be a problem at once. Maps are too safe, agreed. But holding a 3 gen for 40+ minutes shouldn't be what this game comes down to. It makes the game incredibly stale. Just like 2-4 DHs every match.
Your last point, I absolutely agree to. Survivors and killers alike can spread positivity as well as toxicity. Mostly, it feels like toxicity. That is partly our own fault, because we shouldn't do that and partly BHVR's fault, because they won't do anything about it. Though, playing to win isn't exactly toxic as long as your intention is not to ruin the game for your opponents.
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Love divisive, condemning posts by jaded players like this.
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I'd like to say the issue is Survivors AND Killers.
This victim mentality, this blaming mentality of saying "its not me, its them," literally doesn't build a community. And if you think Killers can't be toxic or happy, honestly, do you even browse the forms?
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I second this. What is "perfectly fine."
Why do people insist on such broad, general terms like we just know what that means as a killer? Is it 8 hooks? is it 2 sacrifices + 4 hooks?
Is it 3-Gening survivors and just ruining the experience for everyone?
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- At Vaults Killers are baseline disadvantaged because they cant rush or go fast unless you play specific Killers or take the Clown Perk."
- "At pallettes you have literally 0 power. You either need to win the chase before a pallette or be forced into a lose-lose every time"
Literally the poorest entitled killer I have ever read, apparently you don't even know the basic workings of the game.
Come back when you have passed 100 hours of gameplay please.
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I'm so confused. You don't like chases or pallets, then why do you play?
The way the game is designed is that survivors start at an advantage with plenty of resources at their disposal. As the game progresses, they waste those resources and the game starts to slide in the killers favour. It's why many survivors will tell you that a couple gens popping early in their games mean nothing to them. Because survivors have seen many of those games end with a 4k with x gens still to go. Of course you're going to have to deal with chase and pallets - you *want* those things gone. You want dead zones. You are faster than survivors and will take them down quicker in dead zones. Yes, more experienced survivors will be better at not wasting resources but the vast majority of players don't care and will throw them.
This is all just basic gameplay.
Standing in one spot for 30/40+ minutes is not playing the game. You're not doing yourself any favours, you're not learning anything. You're just wasting everyone's time. I'm a solo survivor with a crappy escape rate. Most of us are. I die way more than i survive. That's because it's a challenging game, and it's *supposed* to be a challenging game. A 45min stalemate is not playing the game.
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You can get a 2K+ with 7+ hooks in most games.
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When I play, survivors get 100% BP all the time, like 90% of all time, when Killers get bonus, its only 25-50% bonus
So…..
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It's according to region.
What do you really expect when they're stuck with nothing but M1, drones, and no consistent way to end chases quickly?
Nobody is going to just fold and go on a pallet tour with you...
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Now you're giving it away. Basekit BT was necessary because there was absolutely nothing to stop killers from hard tunneling people off the hook with no counterplay. This was especially bad for casual solo players who could do absolutely nothing to prevent it. It's the abuse of cheesy tactics with no counterplay that get these kind of perks added as basekit. Also killer had no bonus for many months after the buffs. Killers having more bonuses is a recent thing. It depends on mmr, region, time of day, etc. It's not the same for everyone.
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There is no way you're defending people thst play like this 😂
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and how do you know this?
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Tbh i'm tempted to embrace that kind of mentality, wanna know why? Everytime that i queue as killer (usually with meme addons) i found ALWAYS people with meta stuff (instaheals, styptic agents, brand new parts, etc etc...), abuse of certain "tech" (bugs that people consider features for some reason in order to gain an unintended advantage), abuse perks and basekit stuff out of their context (things as bodyblocking with bt, actively searching the killer for using DS aganist you without being tunneled just to lose more of the killer's time, etc etc), unfun and unhealthy gameplay (tbags after being stunned, being blinded without even having the survivor with the flashlight in your field of view) and mostly MAP OFFERINGS (garden of joy and decimated borgo most of the times)... if there's something that i hate is when people put those offerings since they don't want to just play the game to have fun... they want to win AT ALL COSTS and be toxic toward the killer stroking their victory in your face... this is my daily experience nowdays, a reason why i started to care less about the survivor's fun generally speaking and being less emphatic (add also that all the few killer's perks that were somewhat useful were/are slowly being heavily nerfed and you get the whole picture of why dbd is in this sorry state and it's getting worse after each patch...)
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And I run into killers all the time who sit there and waste time hitting me over and over on hook, tunneling the bejesus out of me yet I shrug it off and just say, well, they must be using this game to fill some dark missing void in their life if they take it that seriously, yikes.
People who act toxic want a reaction and attention, I certainly don't give them mine. I just alt tab and do something productive, I also block them and move on. Another thing is, Ibdon't let it ruin who I am, I don't become mean or have less empathy towards others, else I'll end up becoming toxic and a loser, just like them. x.x
Sorry you run into people like that, but since I started ignoring toxic killers who want my attention and tell me I'm a faker and try to mess with me, things are a lot more fun.
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Playing a killer in a way that works? Blasphemy!
If there is anyone to blame here, it's the devs. They created this killer in this specific way. We can't really blame anyone for playing the game in the way they see fit as long as it's not against game rules. And since this is technically not holding the game hostage it's also not breaking any rules.
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Ough. That's rough. That sounds even worse than my matches. And my matches these past few weeks have been mostly me getting destroyed by survivors, that I couldn't even tell if they were good at the game. I played 1 1/2 years without slowdown and it's never been this miserable before. As survivor my escape rate has never been higher as well. Maybe I got better at playing survivor but the HUD helps more than some people would like to admit.
One game I was so fed up that I started tunneling 1 survivor out immediately. They were dead after 2 minutes with 2 people bodyblocking for them. Somehow they still managed to do 3 gens in this time. The next was done 30 seconds later. That was a perfect example of gen rush.
The devs screwed up the extremes in that regard. You can either play as efficient as possible (tunneling, 3-genning) or get gen rushed beyond reason. Both extremes are probably not what they had in mind but until they change something it will be mostly impossible for both sides to have fun.
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Through playing the game for 5K hours over the last five years.
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Ah, but I have 6K hours over the last 6 years. I got you now.
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this is where you are wrong,,,If you specifically pick a 3 gen to camp from the start of the game ( not one the survivors created by their own msitake) and refuse to chase otuside of it ,only smacking people once and then goin back to kick gens over again you're holding the game hostage since you don't progress your own main objective ( killing survivors ) but also not allowing survivors to do their by patrollin a 3 gen with ur stupid gen kick perks and repeating over and over,,it is both reportable and you will get banned as killer if people record you doin this
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This is not how it works irl mate, it shouldn't be otherwise on the internet imo... Try to mock and annoy someone irl... In the end if that guy see that no one is stopping those idiots (for instance in this case it should be the dev's job to punish people that are toxic, but despite even with all the proof that I sent to them certain subjects are still free to play this game, this alone tell us how much they care about it), you'll end up to react to said harassment... As for me I won't NEVER be the 1st to be toxic toward someone (I don't see a reason/the point to be dicks towards someone who is doing nothing to make you angry), but if I see that the thing is only for my side I'll adapt to their conduct and make their match painfully boring/unfun to verse... Think of it as a "actions bring concequences" since I'm tired of seeing double standards...
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So what if it's relevant? You still got those basekit perks that stack on top of the actual perks.
Also ask yourself why survivors got basekit BT especially when DS got nerfed.
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They aren't favoring any side at all. They're implementing the changes you guys have been whining about for months. Regression perk check, Iron Will DS DH nerf, etc. This is a us v them post because you're essentially whining about 1 side getting changes while ignoring the changes killers got just to cry about entitled survivors.
I'm so sick of how much a narrative you guys force into the forums just to cope with your own sense of entitlement.
(Also survivors haven't been getting stuffed with basekit perks at all. They only got BT that had to be extended cause hm tunnel harder with haste because y'all forced the situation to happen so no stuffing of basekit perks)
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Sorry I couldn't hear you over the number of killer mains complaining about dead hard. Besides kill rate is 60% not counting games with DCs which happen a lot so it's probably much higher. The only time the game is survivor sided is if you're against a 4 man sweat swf. And few teams are that good.
I feel like a lot of killer mains accept nothing less than a 3/4k game. In my killer games i very rarely ever get 0ks. It's a pretty easy roll to play.
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Mmm. Let me try giving you a different perspective.
If you play perfectly (or almost) do you expect to win by a fair margin and 4k the survivors? Based on your takes on the thread I'm gonna guess your answer would be yes.
What if the survivor players play perfectly? Should they expect to escape from the killer through the gate no problem? I would think so.
Both sides are entitled to agency from their performance, not just killers.
And when both sides play perfectly? You should expect a challenging match that ends with gates open and about 2 kills.
Also in this situation, the tiniest thing can easily sway the match to either side.
The problem here is that everyone want 4ks every game or 4e with 0 hooks every game.
Holding your fun to unreasonable expectations is the problem.
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Survivors a lot of the time have bp bonus. But it's region based not amount of players dependant in general.
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The way they have addressed looping and nerfed it is very subtle in some instances. Every map they have released for the past two years has included loops with clutter and objects near walls to make looping less efficient. There is no way to tally the number of hits killers have gotten when survivors become hung up on wall edges, fake wall ends, clutter, rocks, and other junk around previously tight loops but I'm willing to bet it is a lot. Going around these objects also cost survivors precious seconds of time, time the killer is gaining with bloodlust. This inevitably results in shorter chases unless they are at really strong connecting tiles. Strong tiles have also been nerfed on many of the maps or made very confusing to follow or have shortened walls. A mistake by a survivor will get them killed if they run these tiles incorrectly. While a mistake by a killer is 50/50 reward or loss of time. And yes there are still some map spawns with extremely unfair tile line ups, just like there are some spawns with unfair deadzones e.g. worthless hills and piles of junk between unsafe tiles.
So don't think just because devs haven't announced all these changes that they aren't being made.
The reason three genning is not fun is because you could simply put a bot on a three gen. Kick gen and walk back and forth between the three waiting for as survivor to come close. A survivor taps a gen and run away and see their progress eaten up by Overcharge/call of brine. How is this fun? Being looped by a survivor is also not fun but as you gain experience and learn to mindgame survivors and zone them into areas where you have the advantage. Most new killers just mindlessly follow survivors and break pallets or try to bloodlust them. You have to learn to think ahead like forcing a survivor onto a side of a pallet that would make them have to go a long way to get to the next loop, or changing the direction of a loop to deny survivors a window/vault. These things come with time and experience, things you won't gain by passing back and forth in front of a gen.
Also, remember that every cheeky 'win' means you are paired with smarter, and more experienced survivors who will more than likely break your three gen and still tbag you out of the exit gate after a frustrating 30 mins of gameplay.
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I mean Potential Energy is the opposite of a gen-rush perk, it makes gens noticeably slower.
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No. It was 10% action speed buff which ended up being 0.25 seconds quicker. comparing the base buff to these action speeds to the perks is ridiculous.
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If you think games depend entirely on survivor actions for you to win, that means you're doing poorly as killer and constantly take wrong decisions. Because as killer, your plays are what will cause the survivors to get compromised and take a hit. If you can't manage that, you're predictable and use your powers wrong.
You're useless at pallets? Tell that to Nemesis, Huntress, Trickster, Nurse and to some extent, Wesker. Nemesis in particular is godlike against pallet loops. With Tier 2 Mutation he shreds pallets in an instant and will always manage to hit survivors beyond them, no matter the tier.
As for vault locations, they are the only advantage survivors have on you. You need to hide your approach and become unpredictable at them, don't just blindly run in a straight line to get around the vault location. Hopping through vault locations yourself as a direct reaction is often not the right move, unless of course you get the survivor to go away from the vault location and then double back to it. Superior Anatomy also can help with catching a survivor off guard in such a situation.
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If you aren't going to play optimally against optimal players, you shouldn't expect to win sorry.
Knight excels at making dead zones. Having a Survivor be chased by, essentially, two Killers is pretty strong. They are forced to leave loops and if they don't, they get hit. Carnifex breaks pallets almost instantly and Assassin is almost guaranteed a hit.
Pallets are also a guaranteed hit for Knight if the Survivor stays. I'd recommend trying to master Knight before you knock him.
You can force Survivors to react. It's something I'm good at. Stressing people out and forcing them to make decisions in a panic will almost always benefit you.
Also, Killers got two stacks of STBFL and part of Brutal Strength basekit.
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Right but that means faster breaking actions and in addition to that, faster bloodlust and less speed boost for survivors after being hit. A lot of things became basekit changes so let's not
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They got faster hit recovery after hitting a survivor which equates to 2 stacks of stbfl at base on top of other changes for chase mechanics
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