Just delete it
Deadhard! Yeah, i'm complaining about it. From a survivor and killer perspective. It isn't healthy. Just recently i had a game where i went afk because i was in a game vs 4 toolboxes and 3 gens got done in under 2 minutes and i just couldn't be bothered. I hadn't even gotten a down because i tried to split pressure to no avail, and i was on red forest with some sweaty survivors. They refuse to do their objective, and come to harass me. I physically cannot do anything because i have no way to end the game. At least if i was a survivor in this situation, i could do some gens. I get bored, and quickly down 3 survivors. The 4th deadhards a hit, picks up. i was playing demo, and was lunging my shred. The picked up person deadhards, and a 3rd is picked up. See where this is going? Deadhard chain saves the day. A set of survivors keen on bullying was allowed to purely based on that. A minute later, 3 people are fully healed and another gen has popped. I dc, because i know if i go afk again they'll refuse to pop the gen, and if i do get in the situation where i down people, they'll have adren. Whaddya know, 4 adrenalines, 4 deadhards, circle of healing, 2 ds, prove thyself, and some other filler perks. Why is deadhard allowed to bring survivors from total loss of their own mistakes to a situation of complete victory?
Sidenote; "Just wait it out". I did, many times. I made 5 deadhard fails in the match. Deadhard needs to have the ability to gain a 3rd hit removed. This one perk changes the base game to something it wasn't supposed to be. I'd much prefer having 4 sprint bursts 99d, because at least it takes some skill to 99 it, and i'm not blatantly having hits robbed from under my nose.
Comments
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No, the comment doesn't seem sided at all. I just really think there shouldn't be a "3rd health state" perk except mettle of man. You WORK for that. Deadhard you don't. and vs a few killers, most in fact, you can force it. Demo, huntress (at a closer range for biggest difference) trickster, pig, m1 killlers etc. Killers with a range attack you can react, it's very easy. Killers who are m1, you simply go greedy with the loop, look behind, and if they swing, deadhard. If they don't, you just got a pallet for free, and still have it for the next loop. The killer has to swing and see that deadhard bar, and see another pallet saved because of the perk. And me on the survivor side, i typically see low level teammates thinking they're cool by getting a deadhard off... 6 seconds after they were just hit by an m1 killer, rather than obtaining decent distance. There's 99% more bad situations for deadhard being a perk rather than there are good ones
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Let’s also not forget to mention the plague of auto DH script runners which the devs have yet to address
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LITERALLYYY
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I don't know what you specifically want them to do specifically for auto dh, they are constantly banning cheaters. As long as cheats exist, it's always going to be a cat and mouse game. Also I'm not convinced most people deal with auto-dh that much as people say they do, and they are just going against people who time dh well.
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The thing is, you can't tell. you can time a hit completely randomly and they'll deadhard. It can happen 8 times in one game. It could be a normal person or a cheater. You'd never know. This is another reason it just shouldn't give another healthstate.
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You can play blight and by the end of the match it's nearly guaranteed to know if they have auto dh or not.
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Was playing killer the other night. Got uncounterable pallet dead harded 4 times in 2 games. It's the biggest pile of unfair bs in this game. Dh, tanks the hit, slams the pallet in my face, and off to the next pallet.
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Do they know who uses auto DH and ban them?
Or we have to record the gameplay and report? I dont want to record and make report every match.
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DH is the only perk that allows you to pardon yourself from losing the core aspect of the game.
Right now people are substituting actual skill at running the killer with an I-win button, then people who actually do have real skill at running the killer are bringing DH and becoming gods (same as previous DH).
It does not matter what the timing or circumstance is, you cannot be allowed to nullify all the work and skill another player had to put forth to outplay you with nothing but pressing a single button on time. That half second timing is not so difficult that it should cancel out literally anything the killer can try, it's the epitome of ridiculousness.
If a survivor beats a killer at the mind game and makes the window/pallet in time, should the killer be able to tap one button on time and make that survivor's skilled play just not count? Of course not, so why is utter BS like that allowed in the opposite direction?
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I wouldn't have said delete before today, but now I do. Just lost a kill after waiting it out and baiting it the same way as i always do. Somehow still hit it.
No clue why the perk gives survivors a sprint burst and killer a cool down. Gots to go. I'm over it.
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So you're saying a perk should be deleted after one bad game? Just because you got matched with what was clearly a dedicated, sweaty bully squad outside your skill level doesn't mean dh is broken. You said yourself you baited out 5 of them in the one game. Yh, sounds like they were playing obnoxiously, and I'd say they are the problem rather than the perk.
If you lost a 3 slug situation by getting DHd multiple times you were definitely swinging far too early. Bully squads require a particular style of play to counter and you didn't manage it. They frustrated you and you played straight into their hands by going for the quick hits. Best option in that situation is make sure you slap one on a hook. Preferably the first one you downed because they'd be self recovered the most.
As a fellow demo player I never use shred lunges on an injured surv I even suspect might have DH. And I'm very used to baiting it out. Had a prestige 95 leon last night with over 100 days play time, a very good chase runner. Struggled to catch them until late game when I had 2 dead and 2 gens left so I could afford long chases. They tried to DH me 3 times, all 3 failed and they got hooked 3 times. Literally all you have to do to counter DH is not swing at the first possible opportunity, you see them dab and then bam, down.
When I play surv using DH it's a very dicey perk, forcing a dh is a very obvious strategy and if you run at killers they'll very often hold off on the hit, hitting it reactively in a chase is very hard, unless they go for a long lunge.
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I gave one game as example. The perk literally changes the game itself. It needs to be removed
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"play this one killer" NO! I want to have fun playing my main killers, demo legion and sadako!
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It's a meta perk. There will always be effective perks that are better than the rest. It's only broken if you can't counter it. And it is very counterable. If you lose to DH consistently then counter it. But remember you can't 3/4k every single game.
Eruption for example was broken because it was impossible to counter in solo q unless you just stopped working on gens ad infinitum.
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You physically cannot say deadhard isn't broken. It literally changes the game by being a perk. You physically cannot counter it in some situations. The way you want me to "counter" it is by not using any killer power to progress my objective in order to have them waste it. You want killers to stop using powers to bait it out. You make no sense.
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Without a doubt the most spread case of subtle cheating in this game.
It's downright despicable and should be reason enough to completely gut the perk.
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But a Meta Perk shouldnt be so strong it destroys all m1 killers
U cant Counter it on Paletts u will always eat the Palett or DH u cant bait it
DH is unhealthy and broken and Need to be fully reworked u cleary can Feel it when a Game doesnt have DH or a Game whit 2/4 Survivors who use DH its 2 different worlds because the Perk is so impactful
Und im Not going to play only Nurse or Blight just because the devs cant balance this mess of a Perk
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this! You feel it on both sides, too. it's unfun to play as for me, as well as against
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It only destroys M1 killers if that player can't counterplay it, that is a skill issue. Most of them have mechanics designed to shorten or bypass chases: traps, exposed etc anyway. And using it on a pallet like that requires pinpoint timing and doesn't always work, you have a slight gap between the dh animation and actually dropping the pallet. That requires a lot of skill to pull off and with the amount of antiloop killers it doesn'taffect every killer that badly. As killer you can't expect to outplay every survivor in every situation.
Admittedly it sees a lot of use because it is a good perk. But unhealthy and broken? I really can't agree with that, it's high risk high reward. I play killer and surv about the same and I get value out of it sometimes as surv and sometimes I get downed. As killer I've got used to counterplaying it very quickly. It still swing in to it sometimes but more often than not I bait it out.
If it was literally an automatic health state with no counterplay then I'd agree with you. But it has counterplay, and it's not like there aren't multiple killers who can cut the survs down to one healthstate consistently. Technically any killer can using perks. DH is fine as it. If I had to change it I'd maybe make it so the DH deep wound ticks down while sprinting still so it extends the chase but makes it hard to juice it for a full minute or more.
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Step 1: play legion
Step 2: stabstab
Step 3: profit
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it's not a skill issue when you physically cannot outplay it at pallets when survivors are greedy. You are REQUIRED to take the deadhard hit, a hit the survivor SHOULD have thrown the pallet to evade, but they just get an extra healthstate and a saved pallet. It's completely stupid, there should be no perk in the game that you press a button for to get an extra healthstate. Mettle of man is fine, it requires setup. Deadhard is broken.
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yo i a killer main and i think its fine you can still kill people who have dead hard its just a third health state if timed well
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You are focussing on one specific, very niche situation. That can only be pulled off by very high skill survivors. And is only really punishing for true m1 killers.
Shall we nerf all the situations killers can get a win win situation? Trapper making a basement unhook impossible with 3 traps? Facecamping a surv during end game? Killers forcing a 3 gen from the start with hardcore regression perks? Tunneling someone straight off hook? (DH ain't gonna help you there) Lightborn because it stops torches and totally nullufies 2 perks? No, because at the end of the day killer is the power roll and as such can control how the game will go. And a lot of these examples are much more unfair than dh because they have literally no counterplay.
Survs need good perks, and dh is good for sure. A 3rd health state is strong. But aside from pallets there is no situation where the surv can force killer to swing into it. It is skill based, not broken and not an auto health state.
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-"But a Meta Perk shouldnt be so strong it destroys all m1 killers"
This is the truth.
-"It only destroys M1 killers if that player can't counterplay it, that is a skill issue."
So when it happens to Otz who is a 9,000 hour player you're saying Otz is bad at the game? That's a great argument.
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Delete Dead hard, I agree.
At the very least remove the built-in SB it has. But that's endurance here that is the issue.
Endurance makes sense in "just off hook" situations... but not in "Uh-oh, I got hit in a chase due to a misplay on my part eh-eh" situations.
It should be useful to unhook someone relatively safely like once or twice... not an anti-chase perk like it is right now.
This should have been addressed by now, for shame...
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Otz is, I would imagine, as one of DBD's more prominent streamers, against some of the best Survivors in the game.
Now I haven't watched any of his content. But I'd be interested to see how many dead hards he successfully baits versus how many he swings into, and his general kill stats as killer. Then I could make a call on whether he's bad at countering DH or not as well as with killer in general.
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Yeah DH in its current state shouldn't exist. I will say though, Stbfl makes it a TON less aggravating. Stbfl soft counters it and feeds off it. Unless of course you hit the obsession's DH.
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It's partially skill based, and partially trying to force it. You mentioned something specific there, too. Basement trapper. And i absolutely agree, it shouldn't be possible to make it physically impossible to do anything. It's a reason 99% of the playerbase hates bubba. You cannot physically save the person hooked. Something of similar effect is true for myers, if pulled off correctly. And those take 0 skill period (except the myers one). A Killer tunelling a DH player makes obscene sense when they've seen 4 deadhards. Why risk it? get others to come bodyblock instead. In an ideal world, Deadhard would have something to the effect of something suggested prior, actually. It saves you from a down, but only for a limited time. Perhaps a new status effect called "Last Legs" or something. 10-20 seconds of standing up before going down, running out even when sprinting or vaulting. Then, it's just an extention of the last hit, rather than a completely extra hit. I'll stick to what i said before, and always will. No perk should give a health state at the press of a button for free. Deadhard is the only perk that does it. It needs changing.
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I wouldn't hate that as a change, I've actually suggested the same before. Having it act as a ticking clock on the chase would be good.
But I still feel it's ok as is. And to be honest as killer I enjoy counterplaying it. Very satisfying when you bait out that dab and down them.
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-"Otz is, I would imagine, as one of DBD's more prominent streamers, against some of the best Survivors in the game."
Actually no. Otz plays against lot of potato players. Maybe they mess around because they know they are on his stream? /shrug.
If you hop over to Lilith's stream you usually see a lot more crazy skilled survivors. The same is true over on Truetalent's stream.
Regardless there is no counter to DH if there is a pallet nearby. You swing and hit the DH or you eat the pallet. Either way you lose as killer.
It would be one thing if DH had a 15 second count down clock where you automatically went down after a DH unless you literally stopped to mend ( this would basically make it so that running with DH would not stop the deep wound progress).
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this is actually something interetsting, you typically see otz play more chill survivors. Tru3, on the other hand, faces some crazy stuff a lot of the time. (or maybe i just feel like it's more because he shows more crazy survivors on his channel, but then again he posts tons of videos, so..)
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the devs changed otz' profile to make him face survivors at a lower level so the "figurehead" of dbd content can make the game seem more appealing. Though, he does go vs some crazy crap himself.
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I don't know, I feel like otz is playing some fairly decent survivors, but I mean, he's the meme lord that can make trapper work sometimes... so of course the survivors he plays are not always in their best light... as anyone losing to trapper would look you know?
in my book he's a very solid killer with a tons of good insights.
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Otz unmasked a auto DH cheater by swinging near them, and it worked.
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No one is saying Otz is bad.
We are saying True has a higher caliber of opponent most of the time (especially early on in his show - toward the end he knows he gets chill people.
-"I wouldn't be at all surprised if the devs changed otz' profile to make him face survivors at a lower level so the "figurehead" of dbd content can make the game seem more appealing."
This is one of the reasons I suspect they hide MMR. I have thought this too at times. It would be so easy to "zap" a fog whisperer's stream to make people want to play the game more.
Where's peanuts? Show us MMR so we know that you're not doing shady nonsense!
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You keep banging on about one niche situation. One that a lot of killers can easily play around or directly counterplay. Counter loop, stealth, map traversal. That doesn't make dh broken or unbalanced.
And I don't watch these streamers so can't really comment on howuch they struggle with DH BUT I certainly don't think we should balance the game around streamers.
Even at high levels of play, against a good killer DH can't carry the game on it's own. In one of these discussions recently someone posted a tournament video of an Oni who swung into dead hard 5 times in the match. And still got a 4k. It was used by all the survs in the game, used effectively and they still lost. At the highest possible level of play. Imagine how short that game would've been if they couldn't use it. A broken perk is one that is insanely easy to use, with little to no counter play, that makes it impossible for one side to win. Eruption did that, when I used eruption as killer it was practically an auto win and it was next to impossible to counterplay especially in solo q. DH does not. It's the most used surv perk in the game and yet the kill rate is above 60%
when I play killer, which I do frequently, and at my mmr I see a LOT of prestige 80+ players, I counterplay DH all the time. Against players with 5-10times as much playtime as I do. Sure I swing into it, and when it happens it's frustrating. But I know the surv made a good play and I respect that.
I think most killer mains have the mentality that it's the perk that frustrates them the most, and frequently so they call for it to be removed/nerfed. A hard timer on it I would be fine with, but any harder nerf/removal and you'd really be hamstringing survivors in general and kill rates would definitely jump to unpleasant levels.
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you kind of redialed at the first little bit there so i'll just ignore it, especially since nobody said balance the game around streamers.
And yeah, swinging into deadhard isn't always a loss, survivors can be mid at looping. Pretty much any loop survivors can turn in their favour. Even LT walls. Their manipulation of the camera can ensure there is no mindgame, and that they always win, getting maximum value out of those loops. But deadhard itself is the core of frustration for a lot of people, you literally have to postpone hitting someone to down them. You should be able to down them when the games design called for it. Injured to downed. That should be how it goes. Without deadhard, lots of new players would start getting better a lot faster i feel. No stupid 3rd healthsate crutch needed.
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and may i also add - Killers shouldn't require gen regression perks to win. They should be able to have fun with perks and win.
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Waiting 1 second for a hit isn't an issue though. If dead hard lasted longer I could see why it would need changing. But 0.5 secs requires tight timing. You're saying it's an auto 3rd health state and it really isn't.
If it was I would agree, Nerf required. But it's easy to mis time, especially if killer expects it. I would love to see a a statistic of how many DHs people whiff versus hit.
In my experience as survivor I hit maybe 40% of my dead hard attempts at the absolute max. As killer feels about the same give or take.
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thats what you see - other people, more skilled or less, may have a different experience. And once again. People can force it at pallets vs every single killer who has to m1 at a specific pallet. There is a lot of pallets. As well as this, people bodyblocking force you to hit them in certain spaces, of which they can deadhard to get another healthstate to bodyblock with. It's just a dumb perk, it needs nerfing.
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Yeah, other people who can't deal with something basic.
Gamers, if you know the Survivor is going to DH at the pallet, let them DH and then hit them. DH has a period where the Survivor can't interact with objects. Stand in the pallet itself and hit them, it should be a guaranteed hit if they try this.
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Yeah, god forbid that survivors ever be required to be good at the core aspect of the game to escape.
And actually, DH @ pallet has carried and delivered more people out of my grasp than Moses did out of Egypt and continues to be the bane of my existence as a Ghostface player (even with Monocular & Fearmonger).
You have to win at a mindgame in-loop to get the necessary distance to attempt landing a hit at the very tip of a long lunge before they get to the pallet, it's hard as ######### (a lot harder than tapping a button on time, frankly). If I succeed, the hit is easily reaction DH'd since it's coming from as far away as it can. If I "wait it out," then down comes the pallet and off go the teabags....Which is dumber than a screen door on a submarine.
You lose a lot of momentum from not catching a person (especially with a killer that can do nothing in chase), but that should be because the survivor actually outplayed you at the mindgame for the pallet, not because they tapped E to pardon themselves after already losing the mindgame. This sort of crap has to stop, dude.
Dead Hard breaks the gameplay down into a horror-themed charade. All we're asking for is fairness on this busted perk that more or less governs the game at this point, why is that such a tall order?
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You're saying this like survs force it at every pallet ever. Which doesn't happen.
Like you're saying a perk is broken because it performs well in a super specific circumstance, that can only be done by high skill survivor players.
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So the only defence now is that the perk is powerful when looping a pallet. Which is directly counterable by a lot of killers.
Doesn't really fit the definition of a "broken" perk.
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Actually,
Super-enhancing your survivability when using the primary mode of defense fits perfectly, especially when the function of the perk is "ignore results of gameplay and 'win' anyway."
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i name the biggest offender. Do you want me to sit here and write paragraphs about every situation a survivor can force a deadhard? Theres a minimum of 8 of them. There is a lot where its almost-certain, and some where it's just guessing. And lets not mention, deadhard removes the concept of lunging. Yknow, that thing to let killers get a hit from a bit further away? SO instead, killers have to sniff the asscrack of the survivors for 8 seconds at a time?
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if it removes the capability for every m1 killer to counterplay, it is broken.
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Just so we get back on track here, Nerf dead hard, particuarly the part of endurance that gives a sprint boost like effect.
without the extra mobility if gives it wouldn't be considered like a free health state like it is now.
easy fix.
Of course deleting the perk completely from the game would be better, but I understand that some people wouldn't want to see such a positive change to happen.
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I fail to come to agreement with you.
I believe the perk should get nerfed.
If eruption needed to get nerfed, than so does dead hard, end of story.
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You clearly don't face survivors who time the deadhards well enough at pallets then. If they're really amazing, they will time it when you swing. Else the pallet goes down. It's not counterable.
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You're being willfully ignorant here. Win? you mean extend chase by a bit. In my book as a surv, winning is escaping and it's not like bringing DH guarantees and escape. Yh it makes pallets more effective. So what?
My point is that DH is effective but it isn't the 100% reliable 3rd health state button aome of you seem to claim it is. Hyperbole doesn't help prove your point. It's simple, it is effective but it's hard to use, it can be counterplayed. If you can't counterplay it AND insist on only using M1 killers with no anti loop then I really don't know what to tell you. Because believe me it can be counterplayed with M1 killers.
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